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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #51  
Unread 10-08-2014, 09:12 AM
Shibo Shibo is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

I'll start by saying that I don't feel prepared to give much of an interpretation. I am strictly amateur. I can see the story, but I don't trust my ability to express it by translating it into clearly understandable English.

Mars is in the sign of his fall. Venus has no essential dignities. The two are closely conjunct, technically applying, and ruled by the Moon, who also has no essential dignity, and applies in square to Jupiter, who is her ruler. Jupiter is in Pisces, which he does rules, but has no further essential dignity. More, Jupiter is retrograde and in the sign of afflicted Venus' exaltation, and the triplicity, term (I use Egyptian), and face of Mars. Jupiter is in the eleventh house, which is the house of his joy. Saturn in the twelfth is also in his joy, though also lacking essential dignity, but, more, is applied to by retrograde Mercury through antiscia. The only aspects of the traditional planets are the square between the Moon and Jupiter, the trine from Mercury to the Moon, and the conjunction of Mars and Venus. The Sun and Saturn are unaspected, even though the Sun opposes Uranus (which I will not discount altogether). So the only planets here with any essential dignity at all are the Sun, and Jupiter. Jupiter is by far the strongest planet in this chart.

The question here is one of self-expression. Trust issues and such were also mentioned. The ruler of the first house, which is the house most relevant to self-expression, is Mercury, who is in the fourth house of the home and also not in good condition, with help only possibly through that trine from the contraparallel Moon, who is in the seventh house and also not in good condition. The seventh house is the house of relationships with other people, and here it is ruled by Jupiter. The life-area governed by the house itself, in this instance, is best characterized by the peregrine Moon (of course, I'll not ignore Pluto altogether, which I don't think helps much)... with that important square from retrograde Jupiter in the house of acquaintances and good humor... on the subject of Venus and Mars, who conflict, in poor condition, on the cusp of the third house of close friends and brothers.

There's a clear story there. I certainly can see trust issues and a buried self. I also see lots of difficulty on the subject of authority figures, not in the sense of conflict but more due to an essential lack of healthy expression and understanding of authority. This Leo Sun has no room for expressing itself. The clearest, most positive expression of the chart is through the eleventh-house retrograde Jupiter in Pisces.

Thank you for listening. I hope I happened to have contributed something to the discussion ... but now the lunar eclipse is about to become apparent. I hope some of you have the opportunity to observe it, too.

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  #52  
Unread 10-08-2014, 06:28 PM
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ukdesifem ukdesifem is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

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Originally Posted by Julia51423 View Post
Oh okay that makes sense.. Yeah situational issues maybe. Or maybe because I am simply a teen, but I just felt more insecure then most other teens are, also considering that I am a Leo and leos are supposed to be "the most confident" if them all. I was just wondering.


It's a generalisation, and a misconception of what the signs and the attributes actually mean.

It's really the media that says all Leos are x, or all Scorpios are Y. Two Leos can be wildly different, based on signs, houses, aspects, etc.

And by Leo, do you mean Sun only? I am a Leo Sun and Moon, and most Leo horoscopes from noted astrologers tend to be accurate for me due to this. I also have all of my inner planets in Leo, so this further strengthens this.
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  #53  
Unread 10-08-2014, 07:18 PM
Julia51423 Julia51423 is offline
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Originally Posted by ukdesifem View Post
It's a generalisation, and a misconception of what the signs and the attributes actually mean.

It's really the media that says all Leos are x, or all Scorpios are Y. Two Leos can be wildly different, based on signs, houses, aspects, etc.

And by Leo, do you mean Sun only? I am a Leo Sun and Moon, and most Leo horoscopes from noted astrologers tend to be accurate for me due to this. I also have all of my inner planets in Leo, so this further strengthens this.
I have a leo Mercury but sagittarius moon.. But I also though sagittarius's were supposed to be more loud and outgoing too, so I don't really know.
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  #54  
Unread 10-08-2014, 07:21 PM
Julia51423 Julia51423 is offline
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Originally Posted by Shibo View Post
I'll start by saying that I don't feel prepared to give much of an interpretation. I am strictly amateur. I can see the story, but I don't trust my ability to express it by translating it into clearly understandable English.

Mars is in the sign of his fall. Venus has no essential dignities. The two are closely conjunct, technically applying, and ruled by the Moon, who also has no essential dignity, and applies in square to Jupiter, who is her ruler. Jupiter is in Pisces, which he does rules, but has no further essential dignity. More, Jupiter is retrograde and in the sign of afflicted Venus' exaltation, and the triplicity, term (I use Egyptian), and face of Mars. Jupiter is in the eleventh house, which is the house of his joy. Saturn in the twelfth is also in his joy, though also lacking essential dignity, but, more, is applied to by retrograde Mercury through antiscia. The only aspects of the traditional planets are the square between the Moon and Jupiter, the trine from Mercury to the Moon, and the conjunction of Mars and Venus. The Sun and Saturn are unaspected, even though the Sun opposes Uranus (which I will not discount altogether). So the only planets here with any essential dignity at all are the Sun, and Jupiter. Jupiter is by far the strongest planet in this chart.

The question here is one of self-expression. Trust issues and such were also mentioned. The ruler of the first house, which is the house most relevant to self-expression, is Mercury, who is in the fourth house of the home and also not in good condition, with help only possibly through that trine from the contraparallel Moon, who is in the seventh house and also not in good condition. The seventh house is the house of relationships with other people, and here it is ruled by Jupiter. The life-area governed by the house itself, in this instance, is best characterized by the peregrine Moon (of course, I'll not ignore Pluto altogether, which I don't think helps much)... with that important square from retrograde Jupiter in the house of acquaintances and good humor... on the subject of Venus and Mars, who conflict, in poor condition, on the cusp of the third house of close friends and brothers.

There's a clear story there. I certainly can see trust issues and a buried self. I also see lots of difficulty on the subject of authority figures, not in the sense of conflict but more due to an essential lack of healthy expression and understanding of authority. This Leo Sun has no room for expressing itself. The clearest, most positive expression of the chart is through the eleventh-house retrograde Jupiter in Pisces.

Thank you for listening. I hope I happened to have contributed something to the discussion ... but now the lunar eclipse is about to become apparent. I hope some of you have the opportunity to observe it, too.
Thank you for this. Very informative
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  #55  
Unread 10-08-2014, 07:25 PM
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Matrix1 Matrix1 is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

Julia, I don't know what could be the problem. But i have somehow same problem... for example i'm sun cancer, virgo ascedant and pisces moon and I'm really outgoing, i love to be in center of attention, etc. There's no private word for me.
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  #56  
Unread 10-08-2014, 07:25 PM
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ukdesifem ukdesifem is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

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Originally Posted by Julia51423 View Post
I have a leo Mercury but sagittarius moon.. But I also though sagittarius's were supposed to be more loud and outgoing too, so I don't really know.
What are your Rising and Sun signs? If you just have a Leo Mercury, well you would speak with authority and have strong views/opinion. However, your personality signature is your Moon, Ascendant and Sun, and it could be this combination that lends to your shyness.
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  #57  
Unread 10-08-2014, 10:35 PM
venuschild venuschild is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

You need to read up about a Cadent planet, because dispite the cjt to the 4th cusp the sun is in the 3rd, a cadent house!
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  #58  
Unread 10-08-2014, 11:06 PM
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

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Originally Posted by Matrix1 View Post
She can, but i answered first.
eh? wasn't actually interested...if you're not her, then don't speak for her...
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  #59  
Unread 10-09-2014, 12:39 AM
Julia51423 Julia51423 is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

Matrix1 that's interesting yeah with those signs I would think you would be shy too.. And ukdesidem, you could just simply look at my chart. But:
My sun sign: leo
Moon: sagittarius
Mercury: leo
Rising sign: Gemini

So yeah:/
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  #60  
Unread 10-09-2014, 02:46 AM
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Osamenor Osamenor is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

Julia, I've been reading this thread with interest. Like you, I am a Leo who, for years, never thought I was very Leo because my surface personality doesn't match up very well with what the sun sign books describe. And, like you, I have the moon in Sagittarius, but a different rising sign: Capricorn. I was also pretty shy as a child and teen, and as an adult (late thirties), I would still consider myself introverted, but a gregarious introvert: I really enjoy being with people, and I also really enjoy being alone, and I really wouldn't consider myself shy anymore. I'm perfectly comfortable, for instance, with speaking in front of large groups.

In my case, the Leo gets somewhat muted by having Capricorn rising--that creates a very practical and serious "mask"--and by my sun being in the eighth house. The fourth, eighth, and twelfth houses are the inwardly directed houses of the birthchart. Anything placed in one of those houses has a strong influence on the development of your inner life, but its influence is not so immediately visible to others... or, often, even to yourself. It can take some deep introspection to see how you're being influenced by planets in the fourth, eighth, or twelfth house (for the purpose of astrology, the sun and moon are also planets).

While your Leo sun is in the third house, it's up against the cusp of the fourth house, so it would have some fourth house influences as well. Planets on house or sign cusps tend to have influences on, and take on characteristics of, both the sign or house that they're in and the one they're almost in.

Sun indicates the development of your ego and personality. The sign it's in indicates how your personality needs to grow and develop in this lifetime and gives some clues as to how that can happen. Planets that make aspects to your sun also give some of those clues, but that gets very complex in a hurry, so for the purpose of this post, I'll stick with signs and houses. And the house that your sun is in indicates where you need to develop--that is, in what way and what direction your personality needs to grow.

Leo's ruler is the sun. That means its message is essentially the same as the sun's message: development of personality to the fullest. The sun in any sign is a core personality that needs to grow, and the sun in Leo is a personality that really, really needs to grow, to develop itself as fully and far as it can. And the third house is the house of communication. It is closely associated with Gemini and with Mercury, and Mercury is the ruler of Gemini, just as the sun is the ruler of Leo: again, their messages are essentially the same.

It's no coincidence at all that your current shyness, sense of insecurity, and difficulties with communication are causing you so much difficulty. Those are the key issues that your personality needs in order to grow. With your sun in the house of communication, and your ascendant ruled by the planet of communication, and your ascendant's ruler in the same sign as your sun, which happens to be the sign of personality development... for you, communication is at the very center of who you are and who you need to become. Difficulties with communication are no picnic for anyone, but for someone whose core personality depends on communication, those difficulties can feel many times worse--like an outright attack on sense of self.

But communication doesn't just mean talking. It also means listening. The best communicators listen even more than they talk. Listen to others, listen to the world around them, listen to their own inner intuitive voices. And your chart shows a strong gift for that. The retrograde Mercury, Mercury in the fourth house, and fourth house influences on your sun all speak to a deep and inward type of communication. You have the natural ability to be a great listener and a deeply intuitive communicator. Those are very great strengths.

The difficulties you're having right now can also become great strengths if you let them. Personalities develop through challenges, and you have gifts that could not possibly develop to their fullest if everything in that area were easy for you. You have such a strong desire and need to communicate, to speak to others (not just literally, but also deeply and metaphorically) that if it all came easy to you, you would be joyfully running your mouth like there's no tomorrow.

If you didn't experience significant challenges to your own ability to communicate early in life, if you spent your entire youth as an outgoing "Leo" personality with a bubbly "Gemini" mask... then you would be a big talker but probably not much of a listener. You would be at great risk for becoming a prima donna with a big mouth who's so full of herself that she never shuts up and certainly never lets anyone else get a word in edgewise. And worst of all, if you didn't have any uncomfortable feelings around that, any challenges around communication, you wouldn't see anything wrong with that, you wouldn't feel any need to change, and you wouldn't develop your communication abilities in any meaningful way. That would in turn result in your personality failing to grow, because your personality needs growth in that area in order for it to grow.

Your birth chart spared you from that by giving you those challenges. It put the brakes on your talking long enough for you to develop the listening side of communication. You will probably find it easier to communicate with others as you develop your ability to communicate with yourself, to hear your inner voice, and also as you develop your ability to listen.

The very fact that you posted here in this forum shows that you are already following that path. You may be following it in other ways as well. Maybe your friends consider you a good listener. Maybe you have lots of intuitive experiences... lots of "I'll do that just because it feels right," or "I don't know why I don't want to do that, but it just doesn't feel right." Maybe you have hobbies or interests that are very creative... art, poetry, drama, or even just a creative flair on something not usually labeled creative. Maybe you just like listening to the birds sing and seeing a beautiful sunset. All of those things are communicative experiences on that deeper level.
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  #61  
Unread 10-09-2014, 01:12 PM
Julia51423 Julia51423 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Julia, I've been reading this thread with interest. Like you, I am a Leo who, for years, never thought I was very Leo because my surface personality doesn't match up very well with what the sun sign books describe. And, like you, I have the moon in Sagittarius, but a different rising sign: Capricorn. I was also pretty shy as a child and teen, and as an adult (late thirties), I would still consider myself introverted, but a gregarious introvert: I really enjoy being with people, and I also really enjoy being alone, and I really wouldn't consider myself shy anymore. I'm perfectly comfortable, for instance, with speaking in front of large groups.

In my case, the Leo gets somewhat muted by having Capricorn rising--that creates a very practical and serious "mask"--and by my sun being in the eighth house. The fourth, eighth, and twelfth houses are the inwardly directed houses of the birthchart. Anything placed in one of those houses has a strong influence on the development of your inner life, but its influence is not so immediately visible to others... or, often, even to yourself. It can take some deep introspection to see how you're being influenced by planets in the fourth, eighth, or twelfth house (for the purpose of astrology, the sun and moon are also planets).

While your Leo sun is in the third house, it's up against the cusp of the fourth house, so it would have some fourth house influences as well. Planets on house or sign cusps tend to have influences on, and take on characteristics of, both the sign or house that they're in and the one they're almost in.

Sun indicates the development of your ego and personality. The sign it's in indicates how your personality needs to grow and develop in this lifetime and gives some clues as to how that can happen. Planets that make aspects to your sun also give some of those clues, but that gets very complex in a hurry, so for the purpose of this post, I'll stick with signs and houses. And the house that your sun is in indicates where you need to develop--that is, in what way and what direction your personality needs to grow.

Leo's ruler is the sun. That means its message is essentially the same as the sun's message: development of personality to the fullest. The sun in any sign is a core personality that needs to grow, and the sun in Leo is a personality that really, really needs to grow, to develop itself as fully and far as it can. And the third house is the house of communication. It is closely associated with Gemini and with Mercury, and Mercury is the ruler of Gemini, just as the sun is the ruler of Leo: again, their messages are essentially the same.

It's no coincidence at all that your current shyness, sense of insecurity, and difficulties with communication are causing you so much difficulty. Those are the key issues that your personality needs in order to grow. With your sun in the house of communication, and your ascendant ruled by the planet of communication, and your ascendant's ruler in the same sign as your sun, which happens to be the sign of personality development... for you, communication is at the very center of who you are and who you need to become. Difficulties with communication are no picnic for anyone, but for someone whose core personality depends on communication, those difficulties can feel many times worse--like an outright attack on sense of self.

But communication doesn't just mean talking. It also means listening. The best communicators listen even more than they talk. Listen to others, listen to the world around them, listen to their own inner intuitive voices. And your chart shows a strong gift for that. The retrograde Mercury, Mercury in the fourth house, and fourth house influences on your sun all speak to a deep and inward type of communication. You have the natural ability to be a great listener and a deeply intuitive communicator. Those are very great strengths.

The difficulties you're having right now can also become great strengths if you let them. Personalities develop through challenges, and you have gifts that could not possibly develop to their fullest if everything in that area were easy for you. You have such a strong desire and need to communicate, to speak to others (not just literally, but also deeply and metaphorically) that if it all came easy to you, you would be joyfully running your mouth like there's no tomorrow.

If you didn't experience significant challenges to your own ability to communicate early in life, if you spent your entire youth as an outgoing "Leo" personality with a bubbly "Gemini" mask... then you would be a big talker but probably not much of a listener. You would be at great risk for becoming a prima donna with a big mouth who's so full of herself that she never shuts up and certainly never lets anyone else get a word in edgewise. And worst of all, if you didn't have any uncomfortable feelings around that, any challenges around communication, you wouldn't see anything wrong with that, you wouldn't feel any need to change, and you wouldn't develop your communication abilities in any meaningful way. That would in turn result in your personality failing to grow, because your personality needs growth in that area in order for it to grow.

Your birth chart spared you from that by giving you those challenges. It put the brakes on your talking long enough for you to develop the listening side of communication. You will probably find it easier to communicate with others as you develop your ability to communicate with yourself, to hear your inner voice, and also as you develop your ability to listen.

The very fact that you posted here in this forum shows that you are already following that path. You may be following it in other ways as well. Maybe your friends consider you a good listener. Maybe you have lots of intuitive experiences... lots of "I'll do that just because it feels right," or "I don't know why I don't want to do that, but it just doesn't feel right." Maybe you have hobbies or interests that are very creative... art, poetry, drama, or even just a creative flair on something not usually labeled creative. Maybe you just like listening to the birds sing and seeing a beautiful sunset. All of those things are communicative experiences on that deeper level.
Wow that's interesting and actually makes a lot of sense. You really need to check out this link I just found: http://www.starslikeyou.com.au/your-ascendant-is-gemini/
It is about gemini risings and if you read paragraph four it actually agrees a lot with what you are saying. I guess it's just coincidence that I came upon this right after I read your post haha.
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  #62  
Unread 10-09-2014, 07:02 PM
8thstellium 8thstellium is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

It's very important to see your ascendant, moon sign, sun sign etc not just sun sign and July 21 to Aug 21st is a Leo does not stand apply always. if you actually look at a person's chart Sun might actually be in a different sign. For Ex, I was born on 4th June which makes me a Gemini but my sun is in Taurus, moon is in Gemini and Asc is Scorpio and I think I am more of a Scorpio than I am a Gemini or even a Taurus.
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  #63  
Unread 10-09-2014, 07:10 PM
Julia51423 Julia51423 is offline
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Originally Posted by 8thstellium View Post
It's very important to see your ascendant, moon sign, sun sign etc not just sun sign and July 21 to Aug 21st is a Leo does not stand apply always. if you actually look at a person's chart Sun might actually be in a different sign. For Ex, I was born on 4th June which makes me a Gemini but my sun is in Taurus, moon is in Gemini and Asc is Scorpio and I think I am more of a Scorpio than I am a Gemini or even a Taurus.
Wait I am confused how is your sun in Taurus if you are a Gemini?
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  #64  
Unread 10-09-2014, 07:12 PM
8thstellium 8thstellium is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

21st May to 20th June is considered Gemini, correct? In that sense I should have been a Gemini but if you look at Sun in my chart it is actually in Taurus. I follow Indian astrology.
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  #65  
Unread 10-09-2014, 08:08 PM
horarymaster horarymaster is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

Good afternoon, Julia:

First off, welcome to AW, and how do you do, I am new here, myself.

I've noticed that you have been virtually showered with attention in the last 24 hours and some of the commentaries, here, are exceptionally good, in my view.

So, how does it feel to be a celebrated young woman ? LOL

Must feel pretty darn good, huh ?

Some of the commentators on AW are of a very high standard, indeed, in some cases, better than me ?

Thank you for revealing your natal chart.

I noticed that your natal Sun at 11 degrees Leo 35 minutes conjoins my natal ascendant at 11 degree Leo, 30 minutes.

Also, my natal Moon in Gemini conjoins your natal Gemini ascendant.

What this could mean is that we may have much in common ?

You say that you are 16 years old. I once started my studies in astrology at age 16.

You say that you are shy and not outgoing enough to be a Sun in Leo. Well, I initially doubted that I had Leo rising, and I was also very shy as a teenager and not that outgoing at 16. I doubted my birth time, as well, but I got mine from the hospital, which I rectified on my own. (it was seven minutes out).

What is the source of your own birth time. You may want to investigate that time, and later on, get a professional astrologer to rectify the birth time.

Be aware that the ascendant or rising sign often governs your appearance, but NOT ALWAYS.

People with Gemini rising are typically tall and lanky, but with Sun square Saturn, you may be shorter or stockier.

I have a daughter who is one year older than you (she's 17) and she is not a Leo, (she's a Sun in Pisces) but has four Pisces planets in the 5th house.

Anyhow, what is noteworthy is that my daughter also has confidence/shyness issues, and get this, she has a best friend named JULIA !

What do you make of that !

What is different though, between you and my own daughter is that, although she is interested in many things, she is not such a fan of astrology (like you?)

And, I am of the opinion that young kids need to make up their own minds about subjects like astrology and also, other subjects.

I don't think it is a good idea for parents to force their ideals on their kids.

I've seen other parents do that with disastrous consequences.

In any event, I also have a natal chart where the natal Sun (chart ruler) makes an affliction to Saturn. ( I have an opposition, while you have the square).

You must understand that all aspects, including the 90 degree square, are resolvable over time.

The square aspect is much like a heavy spring or coil, being compressed, like underneath a truck or a car.

Due to unfortunate circumstances, lack of self-confidence, bad luck, whatever, the potential of that aspect is frequently DELAYED, but never DENIED.

At some point in time, the DYNAMIC TENSION in that square aspect will reach its nadir, or lowest point, meaning that it cannot go any lower?

Therefore, after years of denial the only place the square can go is UP, since the law of physics states that potential energy, also known as kinetic energy, must be released somehow ?

Therefore, the fixed square typically has a LOT OF POWER and you need to figure out how to harness all that energy ?

Therefore, the Sun's square to Saturn has great potential for perservance, hard work, and staying power, after you have resolved some basic issues.

I predict that you will become more outgoing over time than you currently are.

You could also become rebellious about the restrictions in your life, too ?

You will need to be careful, later in your life, not to throw out the baby with the bathwater ?

Since your natal Sun falls in the 3rd house of learning and communications, you should try to put all of your energies into learning and education.

With Sun in the third house, your best focus is your MIND !

Get the best possible education, finish high school, and also, juggle school with a REAL job.

With natal Sun square Saturn, everything has to be "real" and "practical."

Finally, this question, does your Mom or Dad know that you are into astrology and what would they think of you visiting this AW site ?

When I was 16, my parents were frankly surprised that I was into astrology, but much to my own surprise, they did not deny me from studying it ? As a matter of fact. they actually bought me books on the subject.

I wish you all the best in your future success, Julia.

take care,


HM
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  #66  
Unread 10-09-2014, 08:42 PM
Julia51423 Julia51423 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horarymaster View Post
Good afternoon, Julia:

First off, welcome to AW, and how do you do, I am new here, myself.

I've noticed that you have been virtually showered with attention in the last 24 hours and some of the commentaries, here, are exceptionally good, in my view.

So, how does it feel to be a celebrated young woman ? LOL

Must feel pretty darn good, huh ?

Some of the commentators on AW are of a very high standard, indeed, in some cases, better than me ?

Thank you for revealing your natal chart.

I noticed that your natal Sun at 11 degrees Leo 35 minutes conjoins my natal ascendant at 11 degree Leo, 30 minutes.

Also, my natal Moon in Gemini conjoins your natal Gemini ascendant.

What this could mean is that we may have much in common ?

You say that you are 16 years old. I once started my studies in astrology at age 16.

You say that you are shy and not outgoing enough to be a Sun in Leo. Well, I initially doubted that I had Leo rising, and I was also very shy as a teenager and not that outgoing at 16. I doubted my birth time, as well, but I got mine from the hospital, which I rectified on my own. (it was seven minutes out).

What is the source of your own birth time. You may want to investigate that time, and later on, get a professional astrologer to rectify the birth time.

Be aware that the ascendant or rising sign often governs your appearance, but NOT ALWAYS.

People with Gemini rising are typically tall and lanky, but with Sun square Saturn, you may be shorter or stockier.

I have a daughter who is one year older than you (she's 17) and she is not a Leo, (she's a Sun in Pisces) but has four Pisces planets in the 5th house.

Anyhow, what is noteworthy is that my daughter also has confidence/shyness issues, and get this, she has a best friend named JULIA !

What do you make of that !

What is different though, between you and my own daughter is that, although she is interested in many things, she is not such a fan of astrology (like you?)

And, I am of the opinion that young kids need to make up their own minds about subjects like astrology and also, other subjects.

I don't think it is a good idea for parents to force their ideals on their kids.

I've seen other parents do that with disastrous consequences.

In any event, I also have a natal chart where the natal Sun (chart ruler) makes an affliction to Saturn. ( I have an opposition, while you have the square).

You must understand that all aspects, including the 90 degree square, are resolvable over time.

The square aspect is much like a heavy spring or coil, being compressed, like underneath a truck or a car.

Due to unfortunate circumstances, lack of self-confidence, bad luck, whatever, the potential of that aspect is frequently DELAYED, but never DENIED.

At some point in time, the DYNAMIC TENSION in that square aspect will reach its nadir, or lowest point, meaning that it cannot go any lower?

Therefore, after years of denial the only place the square can go is UP, since the law of physics states that potential energy, also known as kinetic energy, must be released somehow ?

Therefore, the fixed square typically has a LOT OF POWER and you need to figure out how to harness all that energy ?

Therefore, the Sun's square to Saturn has great potential for perservance, hard work, and staying power, after you have resolved some basic issues.

I predict that you will become more outgoing over time than you currently are.

You could also become rebellious about the restrictions in your life, too ?

You will need to be careful, later in your life, not to throw out the baby with the bathwater ?

Since your natal Sun falls in the 3rd house of learning and communications, you should try to put all of your energies into learning and education.

With Sun in the third house, your best focus is your MIND !

Get the best possible education, finish high school, and also, juggle school with a REAL job.

With natal Sun square Saturn, everything has to be "real" and "practical."

Finally, this question, does your Mom or Dad know that you are into astrology and what would they think of you visiting this AW site ?

When I was 16, my parents were frankly surprised that I was into astrology, but much to my own surprise, they did not deny me from studying it ? As a matter of fact. they actually bought me books on the subject.

I wish you all the best in your future success, Julia.

take care,


HM
Thank you! That was very insightful! And also, no my parents have no idea that I go on astrology forums lol, nor that I am this interested in astrology. They know I like it and that I enjoy reading about simply "leos", but that is kind of it. I know they don't really believe in it so idk how they would react. I basically just go on these forums for fun... It's nothing serious more of just a hobby, so I don't really have a need to tell them.
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  #67  
Unread 10-09-2014, 09:34 PM
horarymaster horarymaster is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

I like your approach to astrology, Julia.

Regarding parents, you obviously would be misunderstood if you told them, now.

I admit that I don't monitor where my daughter goes on the internet.

She would get p*ssed off, if I asked. She has Scorpio rising and the water signs usually don't like to be bugged ?

I once asked her and a huge emotional scene took place.

So, now I am just a gloried babysitter with no parental authority, at all. LOL

Meanwhile, I recommend to all newcomers that you take in western astrology, one drop at a time, like taking in liquid with an i.v., ringer, and drip at a hospital bed.

Take it all in, nice and slow !

If you take astrology in like a heroin addict ie shooting up the needle into your arm, you MAY "OD" on astrology and then, someone will have to pick you up off the sidewalk ? LOL

So, better to learn astrology one "brick" at a time....one battle at a time, (ie SUN/SATURN)

No bricks made of heroin, either, just straw and mud like the Egyptians did it ?

By the way, there is a group in Arizona that caters to young astrologers run by a guy named Moses Srnigar the Third.

Moses is the founder, I believe.

You can google it, but they do have teenaged astrologers over there, offer courses in basic astrology, plus you get to make friends your own age ?

I would check it out !


good luck



HM
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  #68  
Unread 10-09-2014, 11:00 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julia51423 View Post

Wait I am confused how is your sun in Taurus if you are a Gemini?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8thstellium View Post

21st May to 20th June is considered Gemini, correct?
In that sense I should have been a Gemini but if you look at Sun in my chart it is actually in Taurus.
I follow Indian astrology
.

To clarify

Indian Astrology also known as VEDIC astrology is SIDEREAL
Western Astrology is TROPICAL

Although there are Western Sidereal astrologers
e.g.

KENNETH BOWSER
http://www.westernsiderealastrology.com/

AND

JIM ESHELMAN
http://www.solunars.com/

SIDEREAL FORUM http://www.solunars.net/


Animation explains: EARTH'S MOTION AROUND THE SUN
NOT AS SIMPLE AS I THOUGHT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-...eature=related

Use the Extended Chart Selection Page on astro.com
to create any natal chart in SIDEREAL FORMAT

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #69  
Unread 10-09-2014, 11:14 PM
Julia51423 Julia51423 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

To clarify

Indian Astrology also known as VEDIC astrology is SIDEREAL
Western Astrology is TROPICAL

Although there are Western Sidereal astrologers
e.g.

KENNETH BOWSER
http://www.westernsiderealastrology.com/

AND

JIM ESHELMAN
http://www.solunars.com/

SIDEREAL FORUM http://www.solunars.net/


Animation explains: EARTH'S MOTION AROUND THE SUN
NOT AS SIMPLE AS I THOUGHT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-...eature=related

Use the Extended Chart Selection Page on astro.com
to create any natal chart in SIDEREAL FORMAT

Thanks, I'll have to check it out.
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  #70  
Unread 10-09-2014, 11:16 PM
venuschild venuschild is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

It's not just your aspects!

You have a mutable cross, that represents one more like a reed blowing in the wind or a tumbleweed, rather than one with a fixed cross who are generally like oaks,hard to move, much less sell an idea easily to!


This should be thoroughly studied to understand how a Cadent house effects a planet:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewto...3a9d634d927ab8

And look at the state of your Natal Sun and other planet's positions in the table.



It's nice to hear the OP's input in order to sense that they are actually learning from what we give!
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  #71  
Unread 10-10-2014, 02:12 AM
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Osamenor Osamenor is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

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Originally Posted by Julia51423 View Post
Wow that's interesting and actually makes a lot of sense. You really need to check out this link I just found: http://www.starslikeyou.com.au/your-...ant-is-gemini/
It is about gemini risings and if you read paragraph four it actually agrees a lot with what you are saying. I guess it's just coincidence that I came upon this right after I read your post haha.
Not coincidence... synchronicity.

And I didn't say this earlier because my post was long enough and I didn't have time, but I see another factor in your chart that makes this inward direction in your development so hard for you... and also so potentially rewarding if you use it as a catalyst for growth.

It slightly mirrors what that fourth para at that link says about your ascendant, but based on your chart, I would say your childhood experiences didn't cause this to happen. They may have been the catalyst for your personality turning inward, but you already had the markers for that to happen--i.e. Mercury retrograde in the fourth--and those markers were sure to be activated sooner or later. If your parents hadn't divorced, it would have been something else. Your chart shows that this inward turn in your personality development is one of the key reasons you came into this life.

What I'm looking at is your moon's north nodes. That's the glyph in the chart that looks like a horseshoe, or an upside down U with little curlicues on its ends. The north nodes represent the direction in which you need to grow in this life, and they also represent territory that is completely unknown to you at the soul level.

These Astrodienst charts don't show the moon's south nodes, but every birth chart has them, and they're always directly opposite the north nodes. Your chart shows the north nodes at 1 degree Virgo in the fourth house, right on the edge of the Virgo/Leo cusp. Although the south nodes are invisible in this chart, we know they're directly opposite the north nodes, so your south nodes are at 1 degree Pisces in the tenth house, right at the cusp of Aquarius.

South nodes represent the karmic past. Astrologers usually describe this in terms of reincarnation. South nodes are what you learned to do, and think, and believe, very, very well over the course of your past lives. They also represent whatever unfinished business you might have from your previous life. It's what you came into this life to complete and, ultimately, grow past.

If you don't believe in reincarnation, you can just as easily describe the south nodes in terms of your ancestral past. They represent the beliefs and experiences and unconscious assumptions that your parents, grandparents, great-grandparents and so on held, and passed down to you. They may also represent the beliefs and expectations that your entire society surrounds you with. All of this is very deeply unconscious.

Your south nodes are in the tenth house, the house of fame and reputation. That means the subconscious beliefs you brought into this life--whether they came from your past lives or your ancestral past--include an expectation on yourself to be a highly visible person. It's not really those astrology lite books and websites you were reading that made you think you needed to be loud and outgoing. They didn't plant that idea for you, only reinforced it, by echoing your deepest unconscious beliefs about who you're supposed to be.

Maybe you were a highly visible person in one or more past lives. Mayor. King or queen. Famous actor. High priestess or pope or guru (the Pisces placement actually suggests something with a spiritual or transcendent focus, so those last three fit that picture very well). Or maybe you were just very well known in your community.

(If you don't believe in reincarnation, this could be a familial pattern. Were any of your ancestors famous? That could mean anything from being world famous to writing a modestly successful book to simply being the go-to person in town, the larger than life person, the one everyone knew. And it's definitely a societal pattern. Our society gives lots of value to loud and outgoing personalities but devalues the quieter, more inward ones.)

You are so accustomed to that life pattern of being highly visible that when you come into a life where your ability to be highly visible is hindered, you find yourself frustrated beyond words. This is what you know how to be, it's worked before, so why isn't it working now?

It's not working now because in that karmic past when you developed such an ability to be highly visible, you didn't get around to developing the more inward parts of yourself. You learned to talk but not to listen, on a metaphoric level. That's gone on for so long that it's now urgent, urgent, urgent for you to develop those listening skills as soon as you can. So you were given a gift: a strong desire to reach out and communicate, along with factors that would force you to develop inward communication and that would be activated very early in your life.

But that inward communication--the north nodes, where you're going--is what your soul has never done before and doesn't know how to do at all. Your north nodes are in your fourth house, same as that inwardly communicative retrograde Leo Mercury. And they're in Virgo, which is the other sign besides Gemini that is ruled by Mercury, so again, Mercury rules the biggest life lesson that you're here to learn.

Virgo's purpose is to create perfection. That doesn't mean insisting that things be perfect right now, although impatient Virgo minds may think that way. What it really means is working toward perfection, just as Leo's meaning is to work toward the fullest possible development of personality. Your north nodes take you toward Virgo's purpose, perfecting something, with a tinge of the personality development that is Leo's purpose. Considering that the south node pattern you need to grow past is a lack of inward communication, and that the growth of your core personality depends on deep growth in the realm of communication, and that it's contrary to the experiences and expectations you brought into this life... what your core personality needs most is what you're least prepared for. You are on a very, very steep learning curve.

When you said you were more insecure than most other teenagers, you were simultaneously wrong and very, very right. All of your peers are definitely experiencing emotional growing pains and some insecurities. That's as much a part of being a teenager as falling down is part of being a toddler. But most of them don't have the kind of deep existential crisis right at the heart of their being going on this early in life that you do. Most people's north node lessons emerge at a more gradual pace, and most people don't experience such a stark contrast between what their personalities are primed to want and what they're able to have at the moment--not in the first couple decades of life, at least, and for some people not at all.

Before you start envying all those people with smoother paths, though, consider this: you're very lucky to have to face these struggles early on. People with more comfortable birth chart paths tend to get lulled into complacency. They don't experience discomfort with how things are, so they see no need for change or growth, and they build themselves up to be someone who, often, is not who they really need to be. Then they stagnate, they get set in their ways, and either they die with their life's real purpose unfulfilled, or they experience an even heavier crisis when there comes a time that they can no longer ignore it--a major midlife crisis, perhaps.

But you're not even remotely capable of going that route.

Last edited by Osamenor; 10-10-2014 at 05:06 AM. Reason: typo, and changed some wording for clarification
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  #72  
Unread 10-10-2014, 06:24 PM
Julia51423 Julia51423 is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

Osamenor, wow, that was one of the most eye opening things I have ever read! It seriously makes so much sense!
I admit that even if I didn't read that leos are supposed to be outgoing I feel like I still would probably feel this strong need to be "visible", and I never really knew why.
So, you say the I could use this issue to my advantage and as a catalyst to develop my personality? I'm just confused how I would do this.... How to I use this information to learn to develop my "internal" communication? Because I honestly have no idea how to do this.
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  #73  
Unread 10-10-2014, 06:50 PM
hbn_235 hbn_235 is offline
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Talking Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

The person who started this thread must be in the innercircle to get this answered
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  #74  
Unread 10-11-2014, 04:11 AM
Julia51423 Julia51423 is offline
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The person who started this thread must be in the innercircle to get this answered
Lol oh and what is that supposed to mean?
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  #75  
Unread 10-11-2014, 07:21 PM
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Osamenor Osamenor is offline
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Re: I am a leo but I am shy and insecure??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julia51423 View Post
So, you say the I could use this issue to my advantage and as a catalyst to develop my personality? I'm just confused how I would do this.... How to I use this information to learn to develop my "internal" communication? Because I honestly have no idea how to do this.
Of course you have no idea how to do it. You've never done it before.

You mentioned, though, that you're extroverted some of the time and introverted some of the time. During your introverted moments, what do you feel most like doing? Reading? Meditating? Doing something creative, like art of some kind or creative writing or listening to music (or creating music) or cooking (that can be a very creative pursuit!)? Going for a walk? Exercising? Just daydreaming? Something else that I haven't mentioned?

All of those things are inwardly communicative experiences. Paradoxically, they can also be outwardly communicative. If you cook a meal, that's a form of communication with whoever eats that meal. If you write or sing a song, you communicate with whoever hears it. If you create a work of art, you communicate with whoever sees it. When you write internet posts, trying to figure yourself out, like you're doing right now, you're communicating with all of us.

But even if no one but you heard your song or saw your work of art or ate your creative cooking or read what you wrote, you would still be having a communicative experience. The very process of creating something is an inwardly communicative process. So is the act of thinking about something you could create even if you don't create it. If, for instance, you make up a story or a song in your head but never tell it, sing it, or write it, you have still had a communicative experience.

You have a key indicator in your birth chart that suggests you are very process oriented, that you are likely to find the process of something even more meaningful than the end result: moon in Sagittarius. The moon in a birth chart represents our feelings, and, even more importantly, our deepest desires. Its placement tells you something about what speaks to your soul.

Sagittarius is the sign of the learner. Traditionally, its archetype is represented in these three ways: it's the sign of the gypsy, the student, or the philosopher, and it's the sign of all three of those things. It represents experiences that we seek out and take joy in just for the sake of the experience. It represents learning, expanding the mind, growing through adventure, expanding your beliefs.

You read something that said Sagittarians are outgoing. That is true, but not necessarily in the sense of having an outgoing personality. Sagittarians like you and me (I am also a Sag moon) are outgoing in the most literal sense of the word. We go out and explore the world. That can be in a very obvious way, like traveling to another country, or it can be in a very inwardly directed way, like reading an interesting book.

It also tends to color our interpersonal relations. We're the people who go out and befriend people who seem very different from ourselves, and take a great interest in what they have to tell us. When I was your age, I was best friends with a recent immigrant from another country, and I loved hearing her stories and learning bits of her language. I would also go talk to homeless people on the street--or rather, let them talk to me--and spend hours listening to their stories. One of my favorite memories from that time in my life is meeting a deaf kid who spent an entire afternoon teaching me his sign language.

Those are very Sagittarian experiences, and they also follow the communication/listening themes in your chart, so you are probably drawn to those sorts of things as well. Even if you don't know any immigrants or homeless people or deaf people, you likely have a tendency to want to know different kinds of people, to befriend them, and to learn about them.

We Sagittarian moons have a deep emotional need for learning and growing experiences. We tend to value them in and of themselves instead of for any diploma or certificate or recognition they might bring. That can be one of your strongest allies in this process of learning to be an inward communicator. Find an inwardly communicative process that you enjoy, and you will love the experience of developing that side of yourself, probably even more than the end results.

Whatever really speaks to you, whatever feeds your soul when you're feeling introverted, that's what you should make room for in your life. That doesn't mean you have to do those kinds of things all of the time. You also have an extroverted side, and you also need to do some things that feed and support that. But the things that feed your introverted side are probably what you've been making less room for in your life, and, judging from what you said and from your chart's indicator that you expect to be more extroverted, you've probably been squelching those urges to do introverted sorts of things.

Fourth house placements can also indicate the parts of yourself that need the most nurturing. When a part of yourself badly needs to be nurtured, it can feel like a crying baby, helpless and vulnerable. You will probably feel very vulnerable and weak as you first start to develop this side of yourself. Treat it like a crying baby: give it love and nurturing. It might seem like the introverted side of you is taking over your life for a while, when you first let it have the expression you've been denying it. If that happens, let it happen. Once you've fed your introverted side enough so that it's no longer malnourished, you'll find yourself in a much better and happier balance of introvert and extrovert, internal communicator and external communicator.
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