Debatable degrees

MoonlightSonata

MoonlightSonata

Well-known member
Please help and please move if this is the wrong area for this question.

I've been looking at natal charts supplied by astro.com and astrotheme.com to learn how to interpret placements and I've noticed that lots of charts will use the same birth date, time, location and house system (FYI I was using Placidus), but astro.com has Whitney Houston's ascendant at 8.25 degrees Pisces while astrotheme.com has it at 8.17 Pisces. And degree differences are more pronounced when I look at a progressed chart. A person's ascendant may be in one sign on astro.com and another sign on astrotheme.com.

How are the degrees being calculated? :andy:
 
Domna

Domna

Well-known member
There seems to be a difference in the birth coordinates used. I tried using the calculator at Astrotheme to generate my own Whitney chart and they give two options for Newark NJ; Newark and Newark Hights. If I choose Newark I get the same results as the astro.com chart and if I choose Newark Heights I get the same chart as astrotheme.
 
MoonlightSonata

MoonlightSonata

Well-known member
Domna said:
There seems to be a difference in the birth coordinates used. I tried using the calculator at Astrotheme to generate my own Whitney chart and they give two options for Newark NJ; Newark and Newark Hights. If I choose Newark I get the same results as the astro.com chart and if I choose Newark Heights I get the same chart as astrotheme.
Click to expand...


Thanks. I guess I was so eager to look at planet placements and aspects that I overlooked some important minor details. :eek:
 
G

greybeard

Well-known member
Check the MC's of the two charts. They should be exactly the same. If they are not the same, different data were used to cast the chart...either time or longitude or both.

Using the Asc adds the complicating factor of latitude and the calculation of the Asc as well. The difference of 8' in the 2 Asc's is about 30 seconds of time. Her first breath was unlikely recorded with that degree of accuracy.

All horoscopes contain an element of uncertainty, mostly due to birth time. Even charts rectified by a skilled astrologer are at best speculative.

Last month I had to put my best friend down. I did not use astrology to choose the time. But after the fact I looked at my chart and transits. My natal MC was the event Asc, exactly. Sun and Mars were in partile hard aspects to natal lord of 6th (pets), Sun in 6th. Moon had just left Libra (relationships) and entered Scorpio (endings, death). There was more.

Nothing happens by chance. It was time to say goodbye.
 
Last edited:
MoonlightSonata

MoonlightSonata

Well-known member
greybeard said:
Check the MC's of the two charts. They should be exactly the same. If they are not the same, different data were used to cast the chart...either time or longitude or both.

Using the Asc adds the complicating factor of latitude and the calculation of the Asc as well. The difference of 8' in the 2 Asc's is about 30 seconds of time. Her first breath was unlikely recorded with that degree of accuracy.

All horoscopes contain an element of uncertainty, mostly due to birth time. Even charts rectified by a skilled astrologer are at best speculative.

Last month I had to put my best friend down. I did not use astrology to choose the time. But after the fact I looked at my chart and transits. My natal MC was the event Asc, exactly. Sun and Mars were in partile hard aspects to natal lord of 6th (pets), Sun in 6th. Moon had just left Libra (relationships) and entered Scorpio (endings, death). There was more.

Nothing happens by chance. It was time to say goodbye.
Click to expand...

Sorry about your BFF. I just looked at both charts again and noticed some discrepancy with minutes (e.g., astro.com has her MC at 18.23 Sagittarius while astrotheme.com has it at 18.19 Sagittarius). I don't know enough about astrology to know how much difference that four minutes means/meant, but I'll keep what you said in mind. Thanks.
 
G

greybeard

Well-known member
One degree of the zodiac passes across the meridian every 4 minutes, approximately. The spatial difference of 4' translates to about 16 seconds of time. Not significant.
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
That means that every Planet will be shown to be placed at DEGREES, Minutes and seconds.
Most astrologers round out the minutes to the next degree when transposing the chart by hand....if the minutes are more than 30. The seconds are almost meaningless as was stated above.

Four minutes of REAL TIME is not the same as 4 minutes in the positioning of the planet....degrees, minutes, seconds.

My advice is to not get bogged down by these details as the interpretation of the chart is what needs to be studied once you have a reasonable chart to work will.
Often someone will be born in a city....or near a city which can actually have a difference of a few minutes and seconds depending where in the city one was born.

So for instance, a person born at the same time in Westchester NYC (northern) and a person born in eastern Brooklyn, also in NYC, will have an ASC where the minutes and seconds will be different from each other. Don't worry about it.

LIN
 
G

greybeard

Well-known member
This thread touches on the question of how precise we must be, which can be a bugaboo for newer students.

Given that no birthtime is certain...we make every attempt to erect an accurate chart.

But for a "general" reading of character and life-pattern, accuracy to the nearest degree is sufficient.

Round up to the next nearest degree: a planet in 13 Aries 20 is in the 14th degree of Aries. The 1st Degree is from 00 Aries 00 through 00 Aries 59'59". The last degree of Aries is the span from 29 Aries 00 through 29 Aries 59'59"...the 30th degree.

One degree of longitude at the equator covers roughly 60 miles on Earth's surface...so one minute of longitude is about one mile of distance.
 
G

greybeard

Well-known member
MoonlightSonata said:
Please help and please move if this is the wrong area for this question.

I've been looking at natal charts supplied by astro.com and astrotheme.com to learn how to interpret placements and I've noticed that lots of charts will use the same birth date, time, location and house system (FYI I was using Placidus), but astro.com has Whitney Houston's ascendant at 8.25 degrees Pisces while astrotheme.com has it at 8.17 Pisces. And degree differences are more pronounced when I look at a progressed chart. A person's ascendant may be in one sign on astro.com and another sign on astrotheme.com.

How are the degrees being calculated? :andy:
Click to expand...

The Asc is calculated from the MC. Locations on exactly the same meridian (longitude) but at different latitudes have different Ascendants.

Set up two fictitious charts, one for Mecca and one for Rostov-on-Don. The charts will have the same MC but differing Ascendants. This is because the Earth's axis is tilted (23 degrees, roughly) to the ecliptic (the plane described by Earth's orbit around Sun.)
 
Top