4th house Aries - coming from a place of conflict?

Hi

My chart (in signature below) Aries rules my 4th house and Mars is in Sag in the first. It forms also a sextile to Lilith. I take this to mean that I come from a place of conflict, within my family. I also have Chiron in the 4th house in trine with Mars and square Sun. A lot of the conflict from my childhood seems to have come from my father. I recall arguments before my folks got divorced, when I was about 7 or 8. But, its like an issue that will never go away. On my father's side of the family, including the women he went off with, that whole side contains conflict or animosity towards me.

I haven't had contact with my father for maybe just over 15 years now, I argued with him as a teenager over a 'badboy' boyfriend, and he hasn't talked to me since, rejected all of my letters and cards, and even blocked me on facebook, yet he visits and stays with all my mum's side of the family abroad and when they come to visit. He doesn't talk to his own mum or dad though, he blocked them out of his life too. My mum's partner is also linked with my father's side of the family, and they are in touch. Seeing him (mum's partner) just seems to stir up an anger inside me that brings back all the pain.He was the one who told me my father told him that he ripped up all the cards and letters that I sent him over the years for birthdays, father's day etc. But his (mums partner) Sun is square with my Mars (which has the Chiron/Sun linkage).

I have also been a scapegoat for a lot of things over the years in my family, through the close family like my father and his wife (the one he went off with) who said alot of things that I would never imagine anyone could say to an 8/9 year old and expect a positive outcome. I only saw my father once a year after my folks got divorced, but while they were together, I don't have too many memories of my father, one thing he used to say was "if you don't shape up, you can ship out" quite alot to me I guess he said it if I was being 'naughty'. This was before I was 7 years old. Too young to defend myself though. My mum really is the only person in the family that seems to understand me.

I've tried meditating and focusing on forgiveness over the years, but I still have this inner rage towards this whole situation. I realise its in me, as I don't even see my father, but my mums partner reminds me of it.

My question is about the Libra MC opposite the Mars nadir. Is where I am supposed to find a balance? Should I be looking towards the Venus related things in my chart to find the balance for this inner rage and pain? Pluto is also up there at the MC. Venus is in Aquarius conjunct Mercury, and they rule 10th 9th 7th 6th and 5th houses and trine Pluto, sextile Neptune. I teach yoga and Pilates, and when I do teach, I feel great. I cannot do that all the time though and find my mind sometimes comes back to this inner rage and pain. I forgive most things, but this one unfortunately seems to be stuck with me, forgiveness for the pain caused by family, and mostly from the father linkage.

I maybe delving into this now as transiting Uranus comes to oppose natal Pluto while crossing the Nadir, and transiting Pluto is also making a square to the Nadir.

Hi Neptune,

I'm viewing your chart now to read it. Firstly, I wouldn't personally have imagined conflict with Aries on the 4th. I know the sign has assertive and aggressive associations but it isn't ordinarily negative. I haven't read anything in modern astrology along these lines, but I have in older materials.

To consider what you say, I look at 4th ruler for home and also the condition of the planets relating to the parents. These are what I'd look for signs of coming from conflict. Your 4th ruler Mars in the 1st house (angular, strong) in Sagittarius is reasonably well-placed. The square to Jupiter isn't threatening at all, I'd really expect that one to be where a 'discordant aspect can prove more helpful then unhelpful'. If it were square Pluto, it would be a different story! Jupiter, too, is reasonably well-placed. 4th ruler in Sag, that could be a sporty or athletic/active home or background, or one that moves around a lot as a lifestyle choice or even with philosophical/hippy/alternative leaning.

Pluto on the MC (therefore opposing the IC) is more apt to explaining some of this I think. Also, I'm not totally convinced of Chiron's placement in our understanding and yet I keep finding charts where it appears placed to explain things - you have Chiron in the 4th of home, wounds at home. There will be better readers of Chiron here than I, but that planet/mini planet is where wounds are, right? Yet it's aspects aren't all bad, square the Sun (not great) and sextile it's sign dispositor Mars (helpful). If you use Chiron, wounds are evident and yet you can overcome them.

Looking at the 4th and 10th rulers, parental planets etc. I wouldn't have expected 'coming from conflict'. The only possibility is Chiron in the 4th of Aries if you use that placement and even then trine it's dispositor, I'd say things can be overcome.

While your natal chart shows your aptitudes at birth and your challenges for the first period of about 15 or so years of your life, IMO, you must use a secondary progressed chart to find out what's going on now.

And on the basis of that, its obvious your personality is struggling with your first house being so incredibly powerful, and having so much incredible levels of friction. This of course bring in Capricorn in the same position of never ending problems that won't go away. So very obvious in this chart. Like wise you have substantial issues relating to the 6th house and Cancer.

As you know, the squares in this chart are the aspects that you will need to work on because they can provide you with directed work. The inconjuncts are the ones that you will think you can solve but which will actually require more work than they look like. And finally the oppositions will be the ones where you cannot solve them without a breakthrough of some kind on your part. You will need to reach out, change your consciousness in some way that is different than right now.

That said, we can look at the inconjuncts, squares, and oppositions that are most significant in this chart.

Oppositions are the aspects that are most consternating. You would tend to try to use steady node to the grindstone work, and you 2ndary progressed chart shows that with its very powerful though negative Capricorn and extremely stressed Saturn, but Saturn and Capricorn generally cannot grant you the peace that you need in a break through.

By far, the two most significant pieces of an initial view of the basics of the chart involve two oppositions: 1st: the Moon OPP Mars, and 2nd, the Saturn OPP ASC.

To find the place of the breakthrough, you need to look at the midpoint of Moon OPP Mars which is 23Ari52. The Witte Sensitive point describes this as:
Public activity. An active, energetic woman. The fighting spirit of a hard working woman. Public service. Impulses, excitements, intense emotions. Unconscious actions. Vigorously started enterprises.

You don't have any planets at that point, but interestingly Chiron is conjunct it at 21Ari13. Chiron generally speaks to: "Expression of unique or individualistic views and behaviors; refusal to conform with parental or societal expectations and standards; effecting turning points or changes in status; accentuation of differences from categories, norms; adolescent crisis; exceptions/exemptions to the rule(s)>" Often in some literature, Chiron is seen as the place where the greatest wound exists and where the greatest growth can take place.

As a confirmation that this is a serious place of growth, the Asteroid DuDu is also there with the meaning: "cr@p" and getting rid of it and the problems that entails, trouble, addiction, power struggles.

And the Arabic Part of Death of Siblings is there: this would not mean that they have to die, but perhaps that you need to address either existing separations and recover, or step back and accept things as they are.

We can look at the second one, or we could look at a persona chart of that exact aspect and see more about what it might mean in the 2ndary progressed chart. We could look at the elements for growth and expansion in this chart.

All the most powerful planetary energies are not going to be the ones you will be able to use, because they are not the lowest friction energies. But we do see that issues that you resolve in your second house will pay off in the long run for the moment.

Should I go further? I have not been really specific with possible meanings since you are already an astrologer.

Kind regards,

Z

Thank you both!!

Zarathu, you are very spot on with alot of what you say.

This of course bring in Capricorn in the same position of never ending problems that won't go away. So very obvious in this chart. Like wise you have substantial issues relating to the 6th house and Cancer.

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Is this because of my natal/progressed nodal placements? Yes the Saturn influence can be very heavy at times, like you say, a problem that never goes away. I just live with it now, used to wonder if things will ever change if the struggle changes.

Oppositions are the aspects that are most consternating. You would tend to try to use steady node to the grindstone work, and you 2ndary progressed chart shows that with its very powerful though negative Capricorn and extremely stressed Saturn, but Saturn and Capricorn generally cannot grant you the peace that you need in a break through.

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Yes I do this, work steadily and tenatiously towards my goal, with a somewhat dry sense of humour about my abilities. This makes me a perfectionist as I never feel I am good enough or that I will succeed, , which is hard on me but it usually seems to get results.

To find the place of the breakthrough, you need to look at the midpoint of Moon OPP Mars which is 23Ari52. The Witte Sensitive point describes this as:
Public activity. An active, energetic woman. The fighting spirit of a hard working woman. Public service. Impulses, excitements, intense emotions. Unconscious actions. Vigorously started enterprises.

You don't have any planets at that point, but interestingly Chiron is conjunct it at 21Ari13. Chiron generally speaks to: "Expression of unique or individualistic views and behaviors; refusal to conform with parental or societal expectations and standards; effecting turning points or changes in status; accentuation of differences from categories, norms; adolescent crisis; exceptions/exemptions to the rule(s)>" Often in some literature, Chiron is seen as the place where the greatest wound exists and where the greatest growth can take place.

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Wow interesting! Yes I am an active and energetic woman, I teach yoga and Pilates and travelling around to get to these places plus finishing a teacher training course. Can be impulsive and these days seem to have very intense emotions. I hardly go with convention and usually question it, I am very much independent in alot of senses, especially in work, though also quite clingy in other senses and need company sometimes. I think part of the conflict I had with my father was he wanted me to conform, and I did for a while, but that idea and my own ideas were very different and I have my own way of doing things.

As a confirmation that this is a serious place of growth, the Asteroid DuDu is also there with the meaning: "cr@p" and getting rid of it and the problems that entails, trouble, addiction, power struggles

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I love to study the asteroids, this one sounds interesting, though a bit of a challenge. Power struggles, I do find this in my Saturday casual 'office' job with the men that work there. I guess they don't appreciate an assertive female so much. Addiction, yes I have my little weaknesses, I gave up smoking in 2009, but recently have been tempted to have a couple while on a night out. Addictions to other bad habits and even self sabotage also I am struggling with.

And the Arabic Part of Death of Siblings is there: this would not mean that they have to die, but perhaps that you need to address either existing separations and recover, or step back and accept things as they are.

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I am curious about this. Is this Arabic Part a natal Part and always there, or is this only in progressions? Siblings, I have no brothers or sisters, only a step sister from my father's wife but I never see any of them. Would this just relate to brothers and sisters? Friendships I also tend to treat as family, but have been distanced from my usual friends too this past half year.

I agree though, all I can do is to step back and let go. I go through waves of feeling the anger towards my father's side, but then knowing I have to then let it go.

All the most powerful planetary energies are not going to be the ones you will be able to use, because they are not the lowest friction energies. But we do see that issues that you resolve in your second house will pay off in the long run for the moment.

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With the 2nd house, is it important to resolve these first, for the time being, because the progressed ascendant/descendant is in them now? And those are the aspects you mentioned with Moon opp Mars, plus Saturn opp Ascendant which directs towards that Aries and the Asteroid DuDu? Getting rid of the @@@@.

I haven't really understood that Saturn aspect in progression. Is this what I will find in my environment to help me balance out something inside myself, like the type of people I will attract or situations I will face? I am wondering if this is a quality I need to learn from and develop in myself. Saturn in Cancer, maybe I need to express my emotions more openly and not be so reserved. I am developing towards this more now, opening up and breaking out the shell that I've grown up in, in doing so, I find more things being drawn into my life that are quite rewarding. Also confidence I know is something I need to develop.

I have not been really specific with possible meanings since you are already an astrologer.

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I am not a very good one

I just had a though though, as you have showed me that Aries point square the Moon opp Mars, this will be triggered next week with the new Moon, plus all the other planets congregating at that point. Ironically, it falls on the day after my teacher training exam.

Byjove,

Jupiter, too, is reasonably well-placed. 4th ruler in Sag, that could be a sporty or athletic/active home or background, or one that moves around a lot as a lifestyle choice or even with philosophical/hippy/alternative leaning.

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Yes I am sporty, have to move around and teaching yoga/Pilates very much alternative learning. As soon as my exams are over, so many books to explore!

Pluto on the MC (therefore opposing the IC) is more apt to explaining some of this I think. Also, I'm not totally convinced of Chiron's placement in our understanding and yet I keep finding charts where it appears placed to explain things - you have Chiron in the 4th of home, wounds at home. There will be better readers of Chiron here than I, but that planet/mini planet is where wounds are, right? Yet it's aspects aren't all bad, square the Sun (not great) and sextile it's sign dispositor Mars (helpful). If you use Chiron, wounds are evident and yet you can overcome them.

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Yes this is what I've learned. It is the only thing I can think of to describe how my early experience of my father even into teenage years has affected me, painful wounds. Its not even a Plutonic type of vibe, its very much Chironic in the pain-effect. The square to my Sun I feel had an affect on my self image, and confidence and in the 2nd house my self value, all wounded. But its getting better with time and age. It may take longer to heal it though, going through a bit of rage every now and then when I think about it, but then applying the healing energy towards it. I guess it is a cycle somewhat, almost like a very large roundabout that I'm going round and round, every now and then, the signpost comes up again, the feelings well up, and it ebbs away. I do try to apply my healing principles to the rage/disappointment regarding my dad though, when it comes up, as I do love him.

Neptune Rising,

The first thing I do when I look at a chart is to determine some basic information that will seriously impact every chart:

A.

1. Planets in a critical degree
2. Planets out of bounds by declination
3. The latitude of the Moon
4. Planets in Mutual REception
5. The position of Dark Moon Lilith

This stuff can have an immediate over-riding circumstance for every chart, and they set the tone, the key signature as it were.

B.

Next I look at the Astrodyne Power and level of friction of the use of the energies for all the Planets, all the signs, all the houses, and all the ptolemaic aspects in the chart.

Once I've done A and B, then I'm in a position to broaden the report to one or all of the parts of my own research(a work book in progress) of the Seven Quotients of Natal Astrology Workbook©

Most of the questions that you asked me came from the stuff(I can't use elements or aspects or other words like that since they are already loaded astrology words, so STUFF is what I use) of A and B.

Often that is as far as most astrologers go. But as you saw, the next step before going into the big picture of my Seven Quotients(defined more on my website below) would be to look for modifiers of the movers and shakers in aspects, planets, houses, and signs in the chart. I could also delve even deeper by going to a Persona chart for any of those items that are situated on an individual point. These modifiers would include any of 700+ asteroids I use, the various Symbol systems(Charubel, Sepharial, Sabian), the Arabic Parts, the Witte Sensitive points, planetary combinations, midpoint pictures, and much much more.

Finally I can take all of that and work for a big picture analysis of how the person will be dealing with any change, with their creativity/illusion picture, with the stuff of expansion/growth in the chart, with the stuff of limitation in the chart, with energy and health in the chart, with the cognitive and with thinking and mental/limbic constructs, and finally with the HERE and now as represented by 2ndary, Tertiary progressed charts, Solar Arc Direction, Solar/Lunar/Planetary Return charts, and finally with selected Transits./

Zarathu

Neptune Rising said:

Is this because of my natal/progressed nodal placements? Yes the Saturn influence can be very heavy at times, like you say, a problem that never goes away. I just live with it now, used to wonder if things will ever change if the struggle changes.

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YES

Neptune Rising said:

I love to study the asteroids, this one sounds interesting, though a bit of a challenge. Power struggles, I do find this in my Saturday casual 'office' job with the men that work there. I guess they don't appreciate an assertive female so much. Addiction, yes I have my little weaknesses, I gave up smoking in 2009, but recently have been tempted to have a couple while on a night out. Addictions to other bad habits and even self sabotage also I am struggling with.

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Asteroids are very hard to use for most people. I have collected a database of more than 700 with meanings. I use them after I already have some idea of what the placement means, and in some cases for clarification, as I did with the DuDu one.

Neptune Rising said:

I am curious about this. Is this Arabic Part a natal Part and always there, or is this only in progressions? Siblings, I have no brothers or sisters, only a step sister from my father's wife but I never see any of them. Would this just relate to brothers and sisters?

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Arabic Parts are in every chart, but they vary with each since they are combinations of planets and points in the format A + B - C. In this case you would have to know, but I would expect that it might relate to anyone that you considered to be a brother or sister even if there was no actual birth family tie.

You have to decide how these things work. they are not always literal.

Neptune Rising said:

With the 2nd house, is it important to resolve these first, for the time being, because the progressed ascendant/descendant is in them now? And those are the aspects you mentioned with Moon opp Mars, plus Saturn opp Ascendant which directs towards that Aries and the Asteroid DuDu? Getting rid of the @@@@.

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You second house in your progressed chart is while way down form the leaders in power is way up from the leaders in friction. the astrodyne system calls it "Harmony". But Harmony means nothing to me, and I use the word friction. It means that in the 2ndary progressed period, the issues of the 2nd house are your line of least resistance. You are less likely to experience stress by working on those issues. I believe that our charts tell us where the most effective way we can work is, if we are to but listen. No point running up the hill when you can take the bus. Your "bus" is the second house right now. So this means to me that if the second house is offered to you as the easiest least friction, then wold your current issues in some what that brings in the stuff of the second house. If you don't have a copy of Rex Bills' Rulership book( http://www.astroamerica.com/rulers.html#the rulership book) you should.

The aspects I mentioned show up as very high friction in the aspect list by Astrodyne. And since they are oppositions, rather than squares or inconjuncts, then I know right away that the solution to your issues does not involve some steady grindstone Capricorn work that you may be quite good at, but something beyond that. You are like the chick stuck in the egg; you need to break out of where you are and change your perception of the world, expand your consciousness of the circumstance to get out of this. You could buy a copy of how to enjoy your life in spite of it all by ken Keyes, Jr, memorize the pathways in a good Capricorn way, and then actually use them everyday---that would probably blow you out of the nest you have now. This is what an opposition is: you have to jump out of the nest. Do you remember the scene in Indiana Jones Temple of Doom, where Indy has to walk across the chasm when he's sure he will fall to the bottom of the gorge? This is what an opposition solved is.

Neptune Rising said:

I haven't really understood that Saturn aspect in progression. Is this what I will find in my environment to help me balance out something inside myself, like the type of people I will attract or situations I will face? I am wondering if this is a quality I need to learn from and develop in myself. Saturn in Cancer, maybe I need to express my emotions more openly and not be so reserved. I am developing towards this more now, opening up and breaking out the shell that I've grown up in, in doing so, I find more things being drawn into my life that are quite rewarding. Also confidence I know is something I need to develop.

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I will need to look at Saturn but what I'm saying above is that Saturn will not help you out of the two biggest oppositions---which are effectively the two biggest crises. You may not be able to do it. Sometimes we can JUST not make the leap.

The 4th house in Hellenistic astrology was the house of one's father and patrimony: by extention one's inherited home. Since then it has come to mean parents more generally, or even the mother, as well as one's residence. Chiron shows us where it hurts.

You have a lovely moon-Jupiter in Pisces; but square Neptune, this can look like disillusionment and hurt feelings at times.

Have you looked at your father's chart? You may be able to see the demons with which he wrestles. He's not a Scorpio, is he? They are notorious for getting angry at people and deciding, "That's it on them," and never speaking to them again.

The best you can do, perhaps, is to realize that you tried to be a good daughter, but he is not the Dad you wanted-- just the Dad you got. Time to let go.

Can you take up boxing? Something that will allow you to ventilate rage rather than cerebralizing it.

From the Life Is Not Fair Department, W.

Thank you ALL so much for your replies!

All make so much sense.



Zarathu, thank you so much for all your comments and your time.

Zarathu said:

You second house in your progressed chart is while way down form the leaders in power is way up from the leaders in friction. the astrodyne system calls it "Harmony". But Harmony means nothing to me, and I use the word friction. It means that in the 2ndary progressed period, the issues of the 2nd house are your line of least resistance. You are less likely to experience stress by working on those issues. I believe that our charts tell us where the most effective way we can work is, if we are to but listen. No point running up the hill when you can take the bus. Your "bus" is the second house right now. So this means to me that if the second house is offered to you as the easiest least friction, then wold your current issues in some what that brings in the stuff of the second house. If you don't have a copy of Rex Bills' Rulership book( http://www.astroamerica.com/rulers.html#the rulership book) you should.

The aspects I mentioned show up as very high friction in the aspect list by Astrodyne. And since they are oppositions, rather than squares or inconjuncts, then I know right away that the solution to your issues does not involve some steady grindstone Capricorn work that you may be quite good at, but something beyond that. You are like the chick stuck in the egg; you need to break out of where you are and change your perception of the world, expand your consciousness of the circumstance to get out of this. You could buy a copy of how to enjoy your life in spite of it all by ken Keyes, Jr, memorize the pathways in a good Capricorn way, and then actually use them everyday---that would probably blow you out of the nest you have now. This is what an opposition is: you have to jump out of the nest. Do you remember the scene in Indiana Jones Temple of Doom, where Indy has to walk across the chasm when he's sure he will fall to the bottom of the gorge? This is what an opposition solved is.

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Ok yes, I understand. At the moment in my life, I earn half my income from teaching yoga/Pilates, the other half is earned on the weekend in my casual office job. I do feel I am in a rut though and need to expand somehow somewhere, but I cannot see the path. Perhaps in jumping out the nest, I have to visualise and make the path. I will get a copy of that book, thank you for the link.

Looking at those points in my chart, the progressed Moon opposite prog Mars/natal Sun and square to the Aries DuDu point... I met a guy a few years ago, shared a house (lodgings) but I moved out when he moved in. It is only this year that I've been going to visit him, he seems to stir something up almost unknowingly encouraging me to be better than I am. His Mars is conjunct my Sun/prog Mars and his Lilith/Orcus is opposite in Cancer conjunct my progressed Moon. He has Jupiter opposite my DuDu. His Pluto is trine my Sun. Perhaps my connection with him can help me break out of my rut. Interestingly he has a similar story with his family, but I observe his way of looking at it with a little bit less bitterness than I have. I am almost certain, this bitterness, although well buried most of the time, is partly what has been holding me back in alot of things.

Sitting in the nest is doing me no good, I need to jump out of it.

Thank you!

Hi Waybread, thank you for replying and for your time!

waybread said:

The 4th house in Hellenistic astrology was the house of one's father and patrimony: by extention one's inherited home. Since then it has come to mean parents more generally, or even the mother, as well as one's residence. Chiron shows us where it hurts.

You have a lovely moon-Jupiter in Pisces; but square Neptune, this can look like disillusionment and hurt feelings at times.

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That Hellenistic description makes sense, being father and inherited home, also with Chiron, the wounds and the pain. I did grow up until the age of about 7, when my folks were together, in a residential street, it was very sweet the neighbourhood, all the houses looked the same. To this day, whenever I pass through a town where it has a similar vibe - residential and houses looking similar, I get a weird melancholy pain, memory, something. I just feel so sad when I go through these towns, almost afraid of being trapped in a town where all the houses look the same

Have you looked at your father's chart? You may be able to see the demons with which he wrestles. He's not a Scorpio, is he? They are notorious for getting angry at people and deciding, "That's it on them," and never speaking to them again.

The best you can do, perhaps, is to realize that you tried to be a good daughter, but he is not the Dad you wanted-- just the Dad you got. Time to let go.

Can you take up boxing? Something that will allow you to ventilate rage rather than cerebralizing it.

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Haha, he is opposite, Taurus Sun. I don't have a time of birth, but maybe also Taurus Moon, which would both fall in my 5th house. His Saturn conjuncts my south node, so I guess we were always meant to split. Jupiter in Cancer, opposite my Sun and trine my Jupiter, I may post our synastry chart soon when exams are over. Strange as I don't know where the problem is with our synastry. He has a Gemini stellium, Mercury conjunct Uranus exactly, with Saturn being midpoint between that and Venus in Gemini.

Yes agreed! I have often thought about taking up boxing! Lol, I will seriously look into this when I'm more free.

Yep, I think I am still holding on to my hopes of what I would rather happen and expect from him. Ha I do think boxing would help! Light boxing against a bag!

From the Life Is Not Fair Department

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Yep, ha, love it!

Caprising said:

Just wanted to add that in 2 months your prog. moon changes sign to Leo, forming a trine to your prog. venus (which as you know has just moved into aries). Impulsiveness might be a thing to watch for, so would becoming pregnant, but then starting your own family would certainly give you a different path to travel down, even if things could get tight financially with all the costs of raising a child!

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Oh my goodness, of course. Thank you for replying Caprising. I remember when the prog Moon changed from Gemini to Cancer, I felt a bit frantic then too. I remember a friend of my mum and step father, a lovely, empathic and 'psychic' gent, described my vibe as being 'in a maelstrom'.

Lol, ah yes! Well that certainly would give me a different path, getting pregnant. Though that would be lovely. There are a few eclipses happening in my 5th house, across the Taurus/Scorp axis, the next solar eclipse conjuncts asteroid Child in my chart, sextiles natal Jupiter. Interesting! The rulerships look pretty intense, prog Moon in Leo, ruled by Sun, both are linked with my 8th house by rulership and intercepted rulership.

Food for thought, thanks very much for that!

Hello Neptune Rising. Notwithstanding some lovely ideas in here, I just thought to add mine (having Chiron in Aries conjunct my IC, trine three Sag planets with Mars in Sagittarius too).

Mars disposits Chiron in your first house of your body / persona: hence, you somehow identify inwardly with both the energy / anger and Mars themes of your father.

Having Capricorn Sun blocked by Chiron here is quite painful. Capricorn often identifies and longs for the father as a figure of guidance: with Saturn in detriment in Cancer in the seventh house: the father was somehow inadequate with rules / discipline or how to effectively incarnate in life.

I won't lie about my personal feeling with Chiron: the wound can easily be triggered time and time again. One never fully heals it in my opinion, but learns how to apply medicine over and over again.

I recently saw a friend who has Chiron on his IC. In his home, he expressed his rage, cursed at certain family members (who indeed hurt him) and verbally let loose (his Chiron in verbal Aquarius). I sat there with respect, and actual empathy because I understood he was simply venting the hurt, and in the safe containment of his home (he obviously was not enraged at his immediate family). Later, he said to me, 'I have to vent when this pain takes over me, otherwise I get sick'.

Chiron is a serious wound that needs to be watched and respected. Trine your Mars, it means that sometimes you have excellent abilities to heal your wounded self assertion / physical / intuitive blockages, but it can also mean that this flow makes it all the more easier for the pain to come through, and the rage becomes felt in every cell of the body (since Mars is in your first house of body and psyche).

Square your Sun, in a cardinal sign, also tells me that your goals have sometimes been frustrated by old wounds, or that indeed, wounds with family put some pressure on you to assert your goals.

I won't go in depth, but will just add that I think Mars in Sagittarius tells one about one's fighting spirit. Mars in Sagittarius always fights for a higher meaning for the instincts: looking to merge body (the horse), mind (the human upper torso) and spirit (the arrow of the Archer pointing to the heavens).

It will be interesting when Uranus hits that Chiron, and Mars is on its way. The coming new Moon will be at 20 degrees of Aries, conjunct your Chiron and trine your Mars. This to me sounds like a wonderful chance to experience new ideas or feelings of healing.

P.S. Your Archetypal father universe is in my opinion very likely to be proud and delighted in his creative and intelligent daughter.

Also had to add (and pardon if it was already noted): notice how transit Chiron in Pisces is currently square your natal Neptune and asc? To me its all about deep, unconscious wounds (Pisces) blocking or challenging one's longing to transcend or imagination (Neptune). Yet its also good in that it opens up the potential to heal via changing our deepest unconscious beliefs and expectations. Uranus opposite Pluto also tells me there is going to be an inward rebellion against one's fears and strongly held resistance to change. There is so much to contemplate.....

Hi Archer!

Thank you so much, I appreciate your views! You have similar aspects.

Mars disposits Chiron in your first house of your body / persona: hence, you somehow identify inwardly with both the energy / anger and Mars themes of your father.

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Yes very much, even to the point where I've been told that I am just like my father, by people who know him. Even a tarot card reader a few months ago told me I am like him, in temperament.

Having Capricorn Sun blocked by Chiron here is quite painful. Capricorn often identifies and longs for the father as a figure of guidance: with Saturn in detriment in Cancer in the seventh house: the father was somehow inadequate with rules / discipline or how to effectively incarnate in life.

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Yes, every now and then, maybe once or twice a year, I will do a horary asking if I will see him again. I know the answer will be no, or maybe that is me wanting the answer to be no as that's what I am used to. If it was a 'yes', I think I would get worried. I think this even translates to my romantic relationships, I realised just recently that I feel very awkward and uncomfortable about letting anyone get close to the 'real' me. I can play out my Neptune rising, and act a little, but the real stuff I need to work on. Interesting about the rules, I don't remember how he disciplined me when I was little.

I won't lie about my personal feeling with Chiron: the wound can easily be triggered time and time again. One never fully heals it in my opinion, but learns how to apply medicine over and over again.

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This is what I am finding. Perhaps it is part of what develops our sense of compassion, over time, learning to live with the wound. For me, I find walking helps to express and let the feelings go, sometimes dancing, though I may start to look for boxing classes! Maybe that's the Aries influence, needing to take some physical action.

Chiron is a serious wound that needs to be watched and respected. Trine your Mars, it means that sometimes you have excellent abilities to heal your wounded self assertion / physical / intuitive blockages, but it can also mean that this flow makes it all the more easier for the pain to come through, and the rage becomes felt in every cell of the body (since Mars is in your first house of body and psyche).

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I think so, it does take over every cell, my body tenses up, but then I also express it emotionally when I realise I cannot contain it, sometimes I just cry, let it go.

Square your Sun, in a cardinal sign, also tells me that your goals have sometimes been frustrated by old wounds, or that indeed, wounds with family put some pressure on you to assert your goals.

I won't go in depth, but will just add that I think Mars in Sagittarius tells one about one's fighting spirit. Mars in Sagittarius always fights for a higher meaning for the instincts: looking to merge body (the horse), mind (the human upper torso) and spirit (the arrow of the Archer pointing to the heavens).

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I do get down, but never give up totally. I am always looking for the lesson in all experiences, its like a never ending quest! The body (horse) mind and spirit reminds me of the Strength card in the tarot, learning to tame the wild inner nature. The inner rage in my case. Maybe not tame, but transform it into an activity. I've been putting it all into my studies for the teacher training exam recently.

It will be interesting when Uranus hits that Chiron, and Mars is on its way. The coming new Moon will be at 20 degrees of Aries, conjunct your Chiron and trine your Mars. This to me sounds like a wonderful chance to experience new ideas or feelings of healing.

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P.S. Your Archetypal father universe is in my opinion very likely to be proud and delighted in his creative and intelligent daughter.

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That's really nice of you to day, thank you!

Also had to add (and pardon if it was already noted): notice how transit Chiron in Pisces is currently square your natal Neptune and asc? To me its all about deep, unconscious wounds (Pisces) blocking or challenging one's longing to transcend or imagination (Neptune). Yet its also good in that it opens up the potential to heal via changing our deepest unconscious beliefs and expectations. Uranus opposite Pluto also tells me there is going to be an inward rebellion against one's fears and strongly held resistance to change. There is so much to contemplate.....

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Yes! The Chiron conjunct Pisces transit was so so so and so hard, painful, heartbreaking. I have got some strength though and have found recently that what usually holds me back isn't having that much hold on me. In some ways, I feel more free just to be myself without need for permission from others. I am starting to understand more how to manifest my world, than let it manifest me. And I have such a wonderful soul mate friend who give me advice, told me confidence can get you anywhere. And its my lack of that has held me back and made me quite limited up until now. That does feel like the Uranian energy breaking free from that and understanding the unconscious drives that now need to change.

Ah I do appreciate your insights Archer, thanks very much!

Were you referring to chiron conjunct your Moon in Pices?

To tell you something funny though of injury and healing with Chiron. I had Chiron conjunct natal Jupiter in my second house about 2 weeks ago. I received two letters on that day, and opened them together. The first was my payslip where I worked hard, but was to lose most of it on tax due to an error made by a computer at payroll that could not be revoked. The second letter was a letter telling me I had a chance to win a lot of money due to some prize pool.

I laughed to myself because it was like, 'injured is your income', yet with Jupiter hit, being the optimist, 'but there is an abundance no less present, at least in 'possibility'.

Note: I deleted the some of the first paragraph in here because it was inaccurate information. xo

Haha ah wow, I do hope you get the money back, and maybe even win the prize money! Ironic how those things happen, especially together like that. That has triggered my curiosity for next year when I have that transit, conjunct to Jupiter. Looks like a roller coaster with the Uranus square Pluto, Uranus square natal Saturn, and Mars making the Uranus/Pluto into a t-square!

Lol, yes I meant Chiron conjunct Moon (I nearly typed Pisces again!), and progressed Sun that's conjuncting Moon, painful with no respite because of what my mum (Pisces Sun) was going through, and still is. That period was a real lesson, its changed the way I look after myself and others.

Best of well being to your mother and of course, to you...

How did the New Moon in Aries seem for you?

I spent the day with a close friend (who has Sun conjunct Chiron in Aries) studying the human body (basic Anatomy and Physiology) relating to a personal training course.

Recently, another interesting loss of money story. On the 8th of April I went for a walk in the park (which is often occupied by many people) and had twenty dollars in my pocket. For a moment, I put my jacket down and started doing push ups and a bit of foot work. I lost the money (it must have flown out of my pocket).

I looked for it but figured someone found it and took it, so it was not a problem. I felt inspired though, moments after this event, to try going for 24 hours without complaining about anything (very theraputic, still working it).

On the tenth of April, so two days later, my Arian friend and I walked through the park together. We literally walked right into the twenty dollar note I lost. This is while the New Moon in Aries took place. We both intuited the feeling that destiny was somehow reassuring us, even blessing us with 'energy', as money is a symbol of energy. The fascinating part here is that the dollar note made it to the other side of the river where I lost it, without going into the water: and I emphasise, we literally walked right toward it, even though we were not looking for it....it looked like it was sitting there waiting for us.

Wow that is amazing, Archer! That is a sure sign, I feel, from the Universe, about the 20 dollar note flying back to you. I have recently been seeing the letter V on my travels around, either made up of twigs on the floor, or markings on floor, or similar but I Take this as a sign from the Universe, or from spirit, that my mum is being looked after her (I have been send her so much healing thoughts as she had a stroke last year). Thanks for your well wishes

The new Moon in Aries was like a real fresh start. The day before, I took my Pilates teacher training exams and passed. Well, I passed the practical, waiting for the theory results. I had a real sense of thinking I would fail. With that over, its wonderful I have my life back and not tied to revision, insertions and origins amongst others! On the same day, the manager at a place where I have been teaching told me my class numbers were low, and asked me why. He suggested I change my style - I may do now I have finished my studies and can use more creativity. I'm taking a break now from teacher training courses!

Congratulations on your passing your pilates test, and on your momentary liberation from academia!

I read an article somewhere (can't find it now) that dancing has proven to increase an individuals intelligence and vitality. I was thinking of how we learn structures of exercise (or even of dancing in ballet, that is phenomenally controlled with ever gesture) yet the joy of it all would be to break it and just express oneself spontaneously. I thought of you when all of this came to mind for some reason.

Ah, actually I can see why. I'm thinking of your Aquarius planets with Neptune near your ascendant. Aquarius is all about dance in the sense of free intelligence with the body (carefully look for instance at Shakira...not in her mainstream video clips, but in her live dances. She takes belly dancing to a level that many women of the Middle East don't match, and she further innovates it and goes beyond her ego with it to the point where she often ends up in hospital after a performance from losing sight of how rigorously she shakes her hips!) Neptune reminds me of the body wanting to go beyond the body.....or rather, to express the most subtle mythic resonances with the body.

Do you dance at all?

Have a lovely day at that

Thanks Archer!

Yes I can totally relate to that, the structure of learning, then the breaking free and spontanious expression! That, I feel is where the true art and healing of the movement is. I read somewhere that when people go to the shamans with their illnesses, one of the first things the Shamans ask is, have you been dancing recently..

I love to dance, done a few belly dancing courses, this is my favourite form of dance. I don't do any others. I've seen Shakira, wow she can move her hips! I've not done nearly enough of that this year.

You are spot in when describing the Aquarius planets and Neptune in my chart, this is exactly how I view movement, both in dancing and in the yoga and Pilates teaching. I find a way to move that is fluid, so much so that it can go towards helping the body to release any 'stuck' issues that it may have. To go beyond the body in a sense. I've developed in this way also partly due to me healing my own stuck body structural issues with the movements in yoga Pilates and also in the belly dancing. All of which I use to invite the body to express itself as freely as possible, within a certain structure or format.

Have a lovely day!