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  #51  
Unread 02-02-2015, 01:33 PM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

As far as I see the OP has Venus as a final dispositor - doesn't this weaken Saturns influence?


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  #52  
Unread 02-26-2015, 01:58 AM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

first planet i was able to identify in the sky. never forget that one
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  #53  
Unread 06-14-2015, 10:22 PM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

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Originally Posted by Honky VIII View Post

As far as I see the OP has Venus as a final dispositor - doesn't this weaken Saturns influence?
Traditional astrology has no "final dispositor" concept as such
instead there is the ALMUTEM FIGURIS
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=49000

'....Almutem Figuris is an old doctrine
where one planet according to certain calculations applied,
receives the honors to be the Ruler or Lord of the Chart....'
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  #54  
Unread 11-04-2016, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
On thing I can mention: regarding such things as Face and Bright Degrees (also Dark Degrees, Pitted and Elevated degrees), the authors that described them (Antiochus of Athens, Abu Mashar, al-Biruni, Ibn Ezra) spoke of them as modifying the condition of any planets posited in them: Face, of course, is an essential dignity, but the others were considered accidental, either dignity or detriment: so, a planet in Face and Bright Degree, would pick up 2 "dignities" (one essential, one accidental) in coming to a consideration of its "net" state (of dignity or detriment) Monomoira (degree rulerships), referred to by Ibn Ezra, go back more to the Hellenist period (eg Antiochus of Athens)-during the Middle Ages and Renaissance, mostly planetary monomoiria were used (in the reference chart natal Saturn is in the 3rd planetary monomoiria of Leo, which = the monomoiria of Mercury): however, Ibn Ezra also refers to the sign monomoiria (in the "Beginning of Wisdom", which reference is briefly footnoted by Robert Hand): for the use of sign monomoiria we have to refer back to the 4th century author Maximus, and-during the Islamic transitional era-to Harranian author Thabit ibn Qurra, who offers a paragraph in his "Gayat el Kawkeb" ("Way of the Planets") to the effect that these sign monomoiria are additional modifiers of the dignity/debility status of planets posited in them (as were bright/dark, pitted/elevated degrees and planetary monomoiria) I do not find any of the authors (listed above) who speak about essential vs accidental dignity/debility, specifically mentioning monomoiria as being either essential or accidental dignity/debility, and they were never mentioned (that I am aware of) among the 5 "classes" of essentials as given in the classical literature (face, term, triplicity, sign, exaltation)-so, I have considered monomoiria (both planetary and sign monomoiria) with the accidentals (same consideration I have for yet another sign subdivision mentioned in Manilius, Valens, Maternus, Abu Mashar, al-Biruni, Thabit ibn Qurra, Ibn Ezra, ie, duodenaries: sign 1/12ths) However, since I don't use a numerically based weighing protocol for essential vs accidental dignity/debility, for me whether the testimony for detriment or dignity arises from essential or accidental sources, really makes no difference in my delineation of the totality of testimonies regarding a particular planet in a particular chart.
Thank you for your posts Dr Farr
A question on the degrees and their classifications which one is correct Abu masar or alqabisi? I also noticed different classification at skyscript by Deborah Houlding
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  #55  
Unread 11-04-2016, 12:34 PM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hsn1983 View Post

Thank you for your posts Dr Farr
A question on the degrees and their classifications which one is correct Abu masar or alqabisi? I also noticed different classification at skyscript by Deborah Houlding

Hi Hsn1983
Notice that dr. farr's last post on this thread was 2014
it is awhile since dr. farr posted on our forum
the reasons are discussed at
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78608
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  #56  
Unread 05-17-2017, 06:48 AM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

An interesting topic.

saturn is not debilated as such, gets debilated in aries.

sat in enemy sign leo 9th, good for admin aptitude and distant travels;

sat lord 3rd retro all the more strong malefic,
delaying luck-educ-travels-father under great stress,


sat retro towards cancer 9th turning to be sensitive

jup 5th aries trine sat leo 9th both for teaching-advisory-ministerial roles;
retro jup pisces trine elevated aspect over retro sat cancer 9th,

cancer-moon however inimical for scorpio asc, stress-delays again;

inimical moon-ketu elevated taurus 7th, creative-energetic-extra stubborn,
love for food-comforts, hotel management-banking,
prone to pain-injury-surgery abdominals, throat-teeth-thyroid;
stress delays in relationship and luck after marriage, ketu separative moreover;

sun-mer-rahu scorpio asc, research-occult aptitudes,magnetic personality,
sun ill health during infancy, separative in marriage,
sun-moon opp born around full moon, blurred thinking/confused.

rahu association aptitude for politics, rise-fall in life, need ancestor worship,

rahu debilated dark scorpio over-indulgence into the occult, to avoid;
debilation of rahu cancelled as venus lord of elevation own sign libra 11th,
gradual pace of growth in life;
sun-mer-rahu scorpio aspected by retro jup pisces and contained,
while promoting research-occult aptitudes;

sat leo 9th occult interests;

asc lord mars debilated cancer 8th, affecting health, suppressed anger;
prone to water accidents;
mars debilation cancelled by elevated aspect from retro jup pisces,
gradual pace of growth and health improvement;
debilated mars elevated aspect over cap 2nd protective of finances;


sat leo aspect own acq 3rd, promoting initiative-progress,
though may not be good for sibling health;

sat cancer too aspect own capricorn and protective;



sat coincidentally 9th lord from moon too, settling at 36+/thumb rule.


sat elevated aspect over venus-libra 11th promoting income-gains.
sat transit 3/6/11 from asc/moon good; sat transit 10th rise-fall in career;


sat though malefic could yet be positive for certain matters as above.


hope observations help the discussion and debate,

best regards,


kshantaram
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  #57  
Unread 05-19-2017, 03:33 AM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

I'm not sure you want Saturn particularly strong.

This chart is my own natal:



As you can see, Saturn is quite strong here. He also sits in the twelfth house, where he supposedly 'delights' at working mischief.

The strong Saturn vs. strong Moon opposition is probably the keynote to my chart. I've always had an emotional resistance to accepting the responsibilities of adult life. I am a terrible procrastinator, and may undermine myself due to that trait. I sort tasks not by urgency but by intellectual interest. Recently, I've been forced to face responsibilities, by illness, as the sixth house Moon suggests.

One gift a strong Saturn in 12 may have given me is that I am relatively calm facing the prospect of my own death. I don't have a timeline in months or years, but I am sick with the illness that will inevitably kill me. And I find I don't mind terribly. Jupiter actually rules 12 here, giving me a philosophical take on my own undoing.

Mercury is also strong, and in the fifth house doesn't help much. I am rather mercurial, an eternal dilettante in astrology and many other things. I pick my intellectual interests up and put them aside until I pick them up again.

Fortuna, too, is in 12. I've always been an intense loner and a very private person. IRL I am a lawyer, and I can keep your secrets. When I was in junior high, I devised a cryptographic script, inspired in part by the Voynich manuscript. I have used it constantly from the early 1970s to the present. I will leave behind several thousand pages in cypher manuscripts, diaries., poems, and journals of various kinds.

Strong Saturn, in other words, may be a dubious blessing. And weak Saturn may have its advantages, especially when aided by Jupiter, as Ebenia suggested.
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  #58  
Unread 05-19-2017, 03:57 AM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hsn1983 View Post
A question on the degrees and their classifications which one is correct Abu masar or alqabisi? I also noticed different classification at skyscript by Deborah Houlding

I follow Abu Mashar, who in was closest in following the Greco-Roman indications.
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  #59  
Unread 05-19-2017, 04:10 AM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

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Originally Posted by SteveGus View Post
And weak Saturn may have its advantages, especially when aided by Jupiter, as Ebenia suggested.
As a native with Saturn, Mercury, Uranus in Sagittarius (ruling 9th and 10th), I an confirm Jupiter in H 12 Aqua is a huge help.

Jupiter rules over Sagittarius, despite the fact that my natal Saturn is at 5 degrees; Jupiter rules my MC (Sag) and Asc (Pisces). I don't know if my Saturn is "weak", but it is a LOT stronger with that Jupiter 12th/ Sat-Sag in the 9th.

Im not gloating, I just have this exact configuration in my chart.

I'm not sure which one is in control or driving the bus; Saturn or Jupiter. I have always thought it was Jupiter, which is tricky since it is in the 12th... In Aqua..

Adding the traditional decans is overwhelming to me and has confused me further... I have only been studying for three years and at this point I'm not that far along yet - but my natal Saturn sits in Jupiters decan in my natal H9 Sag on top of it.
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  #60  
Unread 05-19-2017, 09:20 AM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

For OP's natal chart, although Saturn is dibilitated, it is not badly aspected with the main significator i.e. Sun and Moon. In this case, I wouldn't say it is affecting the native in grossly negative way as such.
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  #61  
Unread 05-19-2017, 09:58 PM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

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Originally Posted by Dubyadude1986 View Post

As a native with Saturn, Mercury, Uranus in Sagittarius (ruling 9th and 10th),
that sentence is murky
this is the traditional board so Uranus rules nothing
I recall you had some doubts concerning your time of birth
seems you resolved that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubyadude1986 View Post

I an confirm Jupiter in H 12 Aqua is a huge help.

Jupiter rules over Sagittarius, despite the fact that my natal Saturn is at 5 degrees; Jupiter rules my MC (Sag) and Asc (Pisces).
I don't know if my Saturn is "weak", but it is a LOT stronger with that Jupiter 12th/ Sat-Sag in the 9th.

Im not gloating, I just have this exact configuration in my chart.

I'm not sure which one is in control or driving the bus; Saturn or Jupiter. I have always thought it was Jupiter, which is tricky since it is in the 12th... In Aqua..

Adding the traditional decans is overwhelming to me and has confused me further... I have only been studying for three years and at this point I'm not that far along yet - but my natal Saturn sits in Jupiters decan in my natal H9 Sag on top of it.
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  #62  
Unread 07-27-2017, 07:31 AM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

Saturn return causes usually difficult situation. I have seen people with Saturn return going through major painful time or changes such as huge uncertainty in family relationship or job situation.
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  #63  
Unread 04-03-2018, 12:11 PM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post

I am going to save further comments
and observations I have regarding OP's Saturn situation, until the OP returns here
and tells us what she thinks-based on her own experiences
-of what we posters to this thread, have had to say
regarding Saturn's influences in the OP's life.
nevertheless
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernesto View Post

that is a good news an aspects of saturn

if its doing good
then what could be more promising

Exactly
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  #64  
Unread 01-01-2019, 01:20 AM
SunConjunctUranus SunConjunctUranus is offline
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

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Originally Posted by kshantaram View Post
An interesting topic.

saturn is not debilated as such, gets debilated in aries.

sat in enemy sign leo 9th, good for admin aptitude and distant travels;

sat lord 3rd retro all the more strong malefic,
delaying luck-educ-travels-father under great stress,


sat retro towards cancer 9th turning to be sensitive

jup 5th aries trine sat leo 9th both for teaching-advisory-ministerial roles;
retro jup pisces trine elevated aspect over retro sat cancer 9th,

cancer-moon however inimical for scorpio asc, stress-delays again;

inimical moon-ketu elevated taurus 7th, creative-energetic-extra stubborn,
love for food-comforts, hotel management-banking,
prone to pain-injury-surgery abdominals, throat-teeth-thyroid;
stress delays in relationship and luck after marriage, ketu separative moreover;

sun-mer-rahu scorpio asc, research-occult aptitudes,magnetic personality,
sun ill health during infancy, separative in marriage,
sun-moon opp born around full moon, blurred thinking/confused.

rahu association aptitude for politics, rise-fall in life, need ancestor worship,

rahu debilated dark scorpio over-indulgence into the occult, to avoid;
debilation of rahu cancelled as venus lord of elevation own sign libra 11th,
gradual pace of growth in life;
sun-mer-rahu scorpio aspected by retro jup pisces and contained,
while promoting research-occult aptitudes;

sat leo 9th occult interests;

asc lord mars debilated cancer 8th, affecting health, suppressed anger;
prone to water accidents;
mars debilation cancelled by elevated aspect from retro jup pisces,
gradual pace of growth and health improvement;
debilated mars elevated aspect over cap 2nd protective of finances;


sat leo aspect own acq 3rd, promoting initiative-progress,
though may not be good for sibling health;

sat cancer too aspect own capricorn and protective;



sat coincidentally 9th lord from moon too, settling at 36+/thumb rule.


sat elevated aspect over venus-libra 11th promoting income-gains.
sat transit 3/6/11 from asc/moon good; sat transit 10th rise-fall in career;


sat though malefic could yet be positive for certain matters as above.


hope observations help the discussion and debate,

best regards,


kshantaram
Very nice input, sir.
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  #65  
Unread 01-01-2019, 01:31 AM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

Wow, how have I not seen this thread? I think my Saturn is quite bad (H12-I know it’s in its “joy” here but joy for who?!) Leo, conjunct Moon and Venus, Square MC. Out of sect. Anyway, I would love to strengthen my sense of discipline and healthy self critisism...if anyone has any suggestions on working with Saturn in Leo to get better results, I’d love to hear it...
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  #66  
Unread 01-01-2019, 01:51 AM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

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Originally Posted by Starsareround View Post
Wow, how have I not seen this thread? I think my Saturn is quite bad (H12-I know it’s in its “joy” here but joy for who?!) Leo, conjunct Moon and Venus, Square MC. Out of sect. Anyway, I would love to strengthen my sense of discipline and healthy self critisism...if anyone has any suggestions on working with Saturn in Leo to get better results, I’d love to hear it...
Check out here:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/deginf1.html#3
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  #67  
Unread 01-01-2019, 01:54 AM
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  #68  
Unread 01-15-2019, 06:44 PM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

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Originally Posted by Starsareround View Post

Wow, how have I not seen this thread?
depends how often one visits our traditional board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsareround View Post

I think my Saturn is quite bad (H12-I know it’s in its “joy” here but joy for who?!)
Leo, conjunct Moon and Venus, Square MC. Out of sect.
Anyway, I would love to strengthen my sense of discipline and healthy self critisism..
.if anyone has any suggestions on working with Saturn in Leo to get better results, I’d love to hear it...
useful to have natal chart to view
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  #69  
Unread 12-28-2019, 06:39 PM
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Re: Heavily debilitated Saturn behaving WELL?

I have a very well aspected Saturn and it has been kicking my ... I'm almost done with this saturn return Thank God
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Unread 06-23-2020, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
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Welcome to the forum, Katie.

Yes, Saturn has no dignity by term using Egyptian terms as most traditional astrologers have chosen to do. Either way, he is dignified by face or decan. So not completely without dignity. You left out cadent.



That aspect is separating. Venus is separating from Saturn at the same time that Saturn, via retrograde motion, is separating from her. This implies an active disregard on their part of a previously established connection. They can still see each other (regard) but they are not seeking to connect.

In your chart, the only planet that is seeking to connect with Saturn is Jupiter, also retrograde.



Saturn rules the 3rd, but he also rules the 4th sign. I am super curious about your relationship with your family, especially siblings and father. Well, you already mentioned your father, and you did say



This is Saturn’s effect in your natal chart. As the ruler of your 3rd and 4th sign (even though not the 4th house) Saturn is completely incompetent. He is partially assisted because he is regarded by benefics ( Moon from Taurus, Venus from Libra and Jupiter from Aries, but Jupiter is in Saturn’s fall and not inclined to be much help for all that he’s chasing Saturn.)





This is a general perception but as you have already learned/demonstrated not an accurate one. Mainly because it is easy to forget that transiting Saturn and natal Saturn are not the same planet. Out of sect Saturn in Leo, retrograde, cadent, in feminine quadrant and bright degree is not the same as In Sect transiting Saturn in Capricorn in pitted degree. That is just an example, but I hope you get the idea.



Is it possible to have a transit that doesn’t do anything? Yes, if Saturn isn’t activated in your chart by profection and/or solar return. How else would it be possible that a Saturn transit to your DSC resulted in something good? If it should be in the 4th sign, which is Aquarius, and which is Saturn’s preferred domicile. As to the Moon? It is going to be really hard for Saturn to harm the Moon in Taurus. Further, we can’t really comment on transits without knowing the rest of what was going on at the time. This is the biggest reason that traditionally transits are like the very last consideration in predicting events in a native’s life.




When you looked at these squares and tied them to your life events, did you consider whether Saturn was making an inferior or superior square? How about reception? Did the squares perfect, and what were the other planets doing at the time?






Ok. But you said




Are you sure? Because it does sound like the dreaded Saturn return had Quite an effect on you. You do have natal Saturn in Leo, right? Just because you made it through the actual moment the transit was exact doesn’t mean the repercussions of it weren’t going to show up. As to losing out to people who were “more fun” where is Venus in your chart? Libra, right? and in the 11th house/12th sign? So Venus is the ruler of your 11th house, which also happens to be Saturn’s exaltation. Saturn is debilitated and cadent, and didn’t we already talk about how Venus is disregarding him? Are you seeing some sort of a thing here? Especially since the 11th house ruler is in the 12th sign of self-undoing? (And other stuff.)



Why? Because you are skipping a couple of steps in traditional methods to understand if transits are going to even have an “effect," amd of so what that effect will be.
His saturn is in 10th sign not 9th
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