dwarf planet pluto was discovered a mere 84 years ago
on 18 February 1930
and
there is no consensus amongst modern astrolgogers as to its validity
By the way, I didn't originate this reply from predetermined direct motive, I only happened to stumble upon it this afternoon while updating a post from a couple of months ago a member of my family that is about to give birth...possibly on Christmas day, some three weeks ahead of schedule.
But, anyways, getting back to this thread. {and really, J.Asc., "astrol - gogers"?
That's okay I spelled half your name wrong awhile back, "Jupipiter", only I think my gaff was cuter.
}
As to your reply there Jupiter Asc., truth be known there's no consensus among present day astrologers as to anything, for that matter.
As the word "consensus" is defined as: "unity, unanimity, solidarity, formal concord" There isn't a single thing that all astrologers are in unity about.
Truth is most "Traditional Astrologers", as they identify and call themselves, of whom I know you to be one, don't recognize any of the trans- Saturnian planets as having any astrological validity.
Pluto is not only a planet, as are also Uranus and Neptune, but it is a most profoundly influential Planet and trumps the affects of all the other known planets. I say "known", because, as there are more Planets yet to be re-discovered beyond Pluto's orbit. And I say, re-discovered, because they were known to mankind until about 12,500 B.C. {or B.C.E., for those of you that prefer}. According to the Vedas and confirmed and elaborated on by the gifted, 20th century American clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce, Humankind first appeared on this earth, by an act of creation by the way, around 237,000 years ago and at peak mental faculties and all attendant capabilities. We as a species, are subject to the cycles of the Great Ages", which in the Vedas are identified as the "Yugas" and we go through, what are presently approximated at, somewhat over, 26,000 year cycles of which of that for about 9,000 years we are in that "fully capable" mode of being. There's also a 9,000 year cycle just the opposite. The former cycle is known as the Satya Yuga and the latter is known as the Kali Yuga, I let everyone have two guess as to which we are in presently. There's also a 4500 year interim period at the interim. on both ends that is called the Dwapar Yuga that are ascending and descending eras. The indications are that the last descending Dwapar Yuga began around 12,500 B.C. {or B.C.E. for that that prefer} which also is when the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx were built. If that assumption is correct, then we are presently in the first quarter of the ascending Yuga and the times do fit the description in the Vedas as to how technologically advanced we should be, in fact we are about 200 to 250 years ahead of were we should presently be. We apparently obtained a level of technology that we aren't spiritually mature enough as yet to handle responsibly.
But I've digressed here enough, although some background understanding will serve most well, that read all this, so no apology should be necessary here.
Not everyone is affected by all the planets, as Edgar Cayce pointed out in a few of the readings he gave to people that ask him questions concerning astrology or of which astrology was pertinent to, and truth is, astrology is pertinent to everything. From a study of somewhere around 150 case histories concerning people that Cayce gave lengthy astrological based answers to question arising from other subjects, or were direct answers to questions concerning astrology, and for whom natal charts, or essential birth data, was known and correct
the investigators determined that most people have only three to six Planets of influence to them....with the greater majority of those in the in the three to five Planet range. The Luminaries are without question [which, while Edgar never said that, I say that He didn't need to, how could they not be for without them life couldn't exist on Earth.]
Cayce did say
also "...and all angles to the Ascendant" which means all Astrological Parts that utilize the Asc. as the "Personal Point" and that means every one of those Parts regardless of whether or not an influential Planet is utilized in a formula because the are only activation points and as such influence you in those areas and concerns of your life of that precept, which is given by the title for the Part, if said title is accurate, of which some are not or are too vague, but for the most part are correct
and that includes Astrological Parts that utilize the trans-Saturnian planets as well.
I have numerous threads and post here, online, posted throughout aw-forum in which I demonstrate, provide examples and cite others that there are known examples already in existence.
And the Astrological Parts that utilize the trans-Saturnian Planets are included on that list and I also have the same evidence for those as well.
Such as the Part of Libido aka Part of Physical Energy that utilizes Pluto in the derivative formula for the Part and evidence {pertaining to president Clinton during the Lewinsky affair} and personal experience to demonstrate and prove said Part was affected by the conjunction of Pluto and the same goes for Uranus and Neptune and those Parts that only the trans- Saturnian are part of the derivative formula.
All the Planets affect mundane charts, such as national natal charts as they are abstract entities that represent the entire collective society of that nation.
In late August of 2012 I gave three dates for citizens of the USA to be very wary of in the immediate future at that time . As Pluto was going to conj. the USA's natal Part of Repression on Dec. 14th, 2012 and is a Part that also utilizes Pluto in the derivative formula, as Asc. + Saturn - Pluto is the formula for it, and the other two dates I gave warning of were April 15th and 18th of 2013 as Uranus was to conjunct the Part of Transformation, derived from the formula Asc. + Uranus - Mars, on the 15th and Uranus was going to conjunct the Part of Liberty aka Part of Personal Liberty, on April 18th and if you check news sources you'll find that the shootings at Sandy Hook occurred on that Dec. 18th, 2012 and the bombing at the Boston Marathon on the following April 15th, 2013 and the imposing of martial law on the city of Boston on that April 18th, three days later. The Part of Liberty being determined by the formula Asc. + Sun - Mercury.
I also have a book published about the results from some studies and research I did in the early 00's, and a chart of historical significance that produce in 2004 which were all dependent on a theory I had developed due to my being introduced to, and subsequent affair with, a women in 1999 that has Pluto on the Ascendant at birth and whom manifested exactly the attributes described by the authors Sakoian and Acker in their "Astrologers' Handbook". They al hit the nail on the head with the description of the same they give for a natal chart that has Pluto on the mid haven, which happens to be what I have in my natal chart.
In fact it was Pluto in my natal chart that my brother used as an demonstrative example to convince me in the summer of 1984 that astrology does indeed have affect on people and that the sources he gave me, such as Sakoian and Ackers writings, those of Dane Rudhyar and a few other astrologers that had written works on the subject, were those from which to proceed with if I were to be interested in joining him in his relatively recent, at that time, new interest/hobby and He not only interested me he got me fascinated with a subject I had been convinced was worthless to pursue as the knowledge, had for the greater part, been lost and a good deal of it corrupted and a lot of totally erroneous techniques and beliefs had been added to.
Pluto just crossed the mid haven of the natal chart of the United States
* for the first time in the nations history three times this past year and the just left the one degree orb of conjunction on December 6th.
During the Civil War Pluto was conjunct the Part of Race aka Part of Racial Consciousness aka Part of Galvanization {Asc. + Moon - Pluto] derived from the USA natal chart and is at 10* Taurus 45', in a one degree orb of conjunction or less from April 1862 to January 1865 and also to the Part of Hope aka Part of Integrity {Asc. + Mercury - Jupiter } derived from the USA natal chart at 10* Taurus 14', beginning just some weeks earlier and ending the relative same.
General Lee surrendered on April 9th, 1865 and when president Lincoln was assassinated on April 14th and Mercury was conjunct the Part of Racial Consciousness at the time, Uranus conj the Part of Suicide {Asc. + C8 - Neptune} at 25* Taurus 36', Pluto was at 12* Taurus 19' and was conj the USA natal Part of Retribution {Asc. + Sun - Mars} at 13* Taurus 15' {
and also the Part of Slander aka Part of Timidity Asc. + Saturn - Neptune although it's a Part that of which title I've yet to do research on and confirm...at 13* Taurus 52'}
and was on that degree for a quite some time while the infamous "Restoration of the South" was initiated.
When President Andrew Johnson declared the war over on May 9th, Neptune was in direct motion at 09* Aries 29' and conjunct the USA natal Part of Transformation at 09* Aries 29" and the natal Part of Liberty at 09* Aries 37'.
Still want to believe that Pluto is some ineffectual pebble in the heavens?
In the revealing light of all that evidence ...and I have more, lots more...do you seriously believe that you will convince people that Pluto has no influence on our lives?
*The "Zero Hour" USA natal chart, 12:00:01 a.m. July 4, 1776, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.