No such thing as a bad chart?

Something to think about:

Does the act of astrological inquiry solidify (in lack of a better term) the outcome into a reality in the same way as observer collapses the wave function in quantum mechanics? (most recent experiments suggest that it is the act of collecting data that actually collapses the wave function, although observer has to be included).

Another example would be a medical scan. A person may have some probability of illness, depending on various factors, and medical scan may or may not find illness. But, according to principles of quantum mechanics, if the medical scan does find the illness that means the illness exists only from the moment when the medical scan was applied. Prior to that moment, it was unknown, it was just a possibility with some probability attached to it.

Similarly, it may be the act of astrological inquiry (collecting data) that sealed the fate of the letter. Prior to that, only a probability of letter being undeliverable existed.

Things are as you name them. It would have been a horaey chart so it depends if you asked about the letter itself, the outcome of the letter, or the outcome regarding your attachment to it depending on why is that letter being sent and where and whatsnits purpose and how it will affect.your life. Not the best example anyways.

It's the same with predictive tools such as tarot . It only matters what you ask and only this will be answered. If you ask "Will my letter arrive?" Tarot can show you yes or no and possibly why if you would care to ask.

The universe notices us but then it's entirely up to your belief how. You can chose to believe you are one with the universe or it's separate from you, and both perspective will produce very different lives. Sometimes we cannot control situations but we can control always our reactions to them. And reaction is everything . It shows how much you have learned and how much you have yet to learn.

So let's say you are someone who always reacts badly when being fired. So much so you question your own worth and self esteem and generally this even just hurts you emotionally and mentally . It's a pattern that keeps repeating in your life regardless of transits and solar returns and you can't find a reason why it's happening . You cannot predict it, you can only try to find the after math in astrology . And somehow it's always a different planetary configuration. However the situation might be different same as the planets, the cause for being fired is prolly always different ,but the outcome is always the same. How would you try to explain that? Well it's simply a lesson you resist learning . Hence it keeps repeating . If it was learned , the planetary configurations you found to correspond to you being fired, would have manifested in some different way. Because every planet ,aspect and sign have a lot more than one meaning .

I hope you get what I mean.

greybeard said:

Just because a chart is full of trines does not make it a good chart.

Free will? Oh. Good luck with that.

The old saying goes, You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

At the age of 9, Charles Manson's mother sold him for a bottle of beer.

Also at age 9 my friend Gary was put on the sidewalks of Las Vegas by his parents. They drove off and never returned. After 18 years in the country's toughest prisons, his body wasting away, Gary became a suicide.
(Tr. Pluto semisquare Sun, exact to minute. Natal -- Leo rising, Pluto 12th Leo square Sun Scorpio 4th).

Your first 7 years or so are of first importance in determining your life. Free will is virtually absent during this period.

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Wait, what? Gary was abandoned by his parents at the age of 9, but they made sure to tell him his time of birth?

As for me, I consider a chart with lots of planets in the angular houses good. I also consider squares and oppositions "good", in the sense that they provide the impetus for the native to grow.

I knew my birth time, had seen and read about my horoscope by age 8. I hope you're not calling me a teller of tall tales.

greybeard said:

I knew my birth time, had seen and read about my horoscope by age 8. I hope you're not calling me a teller of tall tales.

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No, of course not. I was a bit surprised, that's all.

Personally, I only cared to find out my birth time after I was an adult (when I started to get into astrology). It just never occurred to me to ask my parents.

wan said:

No, of course not. I was a bit surprised, that's all.

Personally, I only cared to find out my birth time after I was an adult (when I started to get into astrology). It just never occurred to me to ask my parents.

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Sadly, you are not everyone. I had a mother who was called Crazy Mary everywhere she went.

wan said:

Wait, what? Gary was abandoned by his parents at the age of 9, but they made sure to tell him his time of birth?

As for me, I consider a chart with lots of planets in the angular houses good. I also consider squares and oppositions "good", in the sense that they provide the impetus for the native to grow.

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Doesn't it matter which planets are squared or in angular houses? Cos I have Saturn on asc opposed by Mars on DSC,both squared by Jupiter/Pluto from 9th. I wouldn't consider much this a "good" chart.

Altho I agree about squares, somehow they promise success. Simply because the tension is so great between those two trapped planets that the focus inevitably falls there and either breaks you or makes you. Now I don't know if that's true for more than 3 squares.

I've seen people with lots of conjunctions grow steadily .

The prevailing Chart-paradigm is a battlefield model, with astrological influences fighting for supremacy. Another way to look at it is as a cooperative model, with some Charts more able to function cooperatively than others.

ardentika said:

Doesn't it matter which planets are squared or in angular houses? Cos I have Saturn on asc opposed by Mars on DSC,both squared by Jupiter/Pluto from 9th. I wouldn't consider much this a "good" chart.

Altho I agree about squares, somehow they promise success. Simply because the tension is so great between those two trapped planets that the focus inevitably falls there and either breaks you or makes you. Now I don't know if that's true for more than 3 squares.

I've seen people with lots of conjunctions grow steadily .

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I actually personally enjoy people more that have hard aspects. I find that people with nice easy seemingly perfect charts, are not near as perfect or as nice as you would expect them to be. Whereas, people with hard aspects don't hold the same expectations, they are real to me. Imperfect, like myself.

And we do grow, from what we learn and from what efforts we put into life.

Everyone is imperfect. Even those who believe otherwise. It's just a perception. I've seen people who have no reason to feel they are more than me and yet they have behaved this way.

What about quincunx? It's considered now a major hard aspect.

For a long time I ignored the quincunx. No longer.

It is a minor aspect, not a major. Thus it earns an orb of only 2° or 3°. If it is within orb, recognized as an effective aspect, then I give it equal or near-equal consideration with equivalent majors. Preferred orb, 1-1/2°.

greybeard said:

Just because a chart is full of trines does not make it a good chart.

Free will? Oh. Good luck with that.



Your first 7 years or so are of first importance in determining your life. Free will is virtually absent during this period.

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That's the part that *****. The period in life that determines how the rest of your life goes is in no way under your control. Anything that happens during this period which shapes you is extremely hard to change later on.

clip11 said:

That's the part that *****. The period in life that determines how the rest of your life goes is in no way under your control. Anything that happens during this period which shapes you is extremely hard to change later on.

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Oh that's victim mind bs. Nothing determines how the rest of your life will be but you. Majority of successful people come from deeply damaged families. It's easy to blame someone else and find an excuse ,it's hard to take your life into your hands and take responsibility for your future. Nothing difines who you are but you. Not even astrology.

clip11 said:

That's the part that *****. The period in life that determines how the rest of your life goes is in no way under your control. Anything that happens during this period which shapes you is extremely hard to change later on.

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Yes, that is the reality of our early development. Traits, acquired or inherent, which take root before dentition (age 7, first [waxing] Saturn square) are probably far too deep to be changed. Formed before we possessed any significant, conscious will, these same traits deeply influence our choices throughout life and further militate against "free will".

Well, Ardentika, that's an interesting perspective.

greybeard said:

Yes, that is the reality of our early development. Traits, acquired or inherent, which take root before dentition (age 7, first [waxing] Saturn square) are probably far too deep to be changed. Formed before we possessed any significant, conscious will, these same traits deeply influence our choices throughout life and further militate against "free will".

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Well you can chose that victim consciousness or creator consciousness . It's up to you really. I wouldn't risk anymore with victim consciousness cos I've been on both sides and I see the power of awareness. Not even Saturn can stop an aware individual .

ardentika said:

Well you can chose that victim consciousness or creator consciousness . It's up to you really. I wouldn't risk anymore with victim consciousness cos I've been on both sides and I see the power of awareness. Not even Saturn can stop an aware individual .

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Interesting perspective.

A few days ago I posted a thread (Forces of Nature) which directly addresses this question in a sidelong way.

greybeard said:

A few days ago I posted a thread (Forces of Nature) which directly addresses this question in a sidelong way.

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Missed it. I'll look it up.

There isn't such thing as a bad chart as every single one is a sacred snapshot of the universe at a particular point in time. Who are we to decide what's bad and what's good about someone else's chart?

Besides, natal charts shouldn't be used as tools of prediction as the archetypes of each planet and house can play out in any number of ways in an individual's life. You can gauge the general theme of a person's life, but to determine that some specific thing is what they're doomed or destined to have is not ever your call or anyone else's to make.

I see charts as clues to unlocking your unique potential within. It's your own personal energetic signature.