Secondary Progressions

Hey all,

I don't get Secondary Progressions. But before I post my question, let's make sure that I understand Secondary Progressions correctly.

A progressed chart for someone who's 20 is calculated based on a date that is 20 days later than their actual birthdate, right?

OK. If I'm correct, then what's the logic? How does this work? I was born on August 15 so now that I'm 26 I should construct a chart for .. what?.. September 10? That's puts my Sun in Virgo. I'm no Virgo! I do not demonstrate any of its qualities, the better or the lesser. Also, the ASC changes eventually.

I'm confused :?

I know there's a another chart called the Solar Arc, what's that and how's it different?

Well, I don't know a lot, but I think I do know the technical difference between a solar arc and secondary progression chart. I believe it was something like a secondary progression chart is just a certain amount of days past your birth, and a solar arc is that you add the number of degrees to each planet (the same way that you add the number of days to the other chart).

And I think the interpretation had more to do with transits than it being a whole new natal chart. You could compare the aspects of the progressed and natal chart. And one thing I like to do with progressed charts is to look at how the sun/moon midpoint for it aspected my natal chart. (Heh, can you tell I like using sun/moon midpoints?)

I don't know of how much help I can be on this topic, but I've heard that the secondary progressions are more to do with evolving on the inside, and transits with evolution on the outside, which could explain why you don't consider yourself very Virgo-y. I'm really still looking into progressions, so I don't know too much. I know, though, when it comes to my chart, I have been most affected by my progressed moon (which is currently in Scorpio, which is very noticeable to me!), and it's more of an inner thing - no one else would particularly notice it, but I sure do. And as for the solar arcs, I did get some charts done up by a professional astrologer a few months ago, but I don't exactly understand them all .

Logic and astrology?

Heart,

Angel is correct about what a Solar Arc is. Another way to think of it is EVERY planet is progressed at the same rate as the Sun. For this reason a person can look at a chart and figure out where there Solar Arc planets will be. For example, if Pluto is 3 degrees Virgo in the birth chart, when the person becomes 20 there Solar Arc Pluto will be at 23 degrees Virgo (3 + 20 = 23). Noel Tyl, a very famous astrologer, is very fond of Solar Arcs and created an entire book about them called "Solar Arcs". Noel claims that Solar Arcs can be used to predict major life events: for example when Saturn (duty, also career) by Solar Arc conjuncts the Midheaven (outer world), the person will come into some type of career advancement.

Shimmy is also correct about the "inner" effect of progressions. They become more apparent when we analyze how we have changed "inwardly" over the years.

As to trying to find out which astrological system is "reasonable"...to me, they are are ALL unreasonable. The idea that something in the sky so far away has ANY effect at all on me is unreasonable. Similarly, it becomes even more unreasonable when we consider that, due to the procession of the equinoxes, our Western astrology charts don't reflect the true positions of the planets. This is ALL unreasonable...but it works. And, to me, that is the ultimate value of astrology...it works!

Throwing out logic,

Tim

Thanks everyone,

Ok. Let's take it one type at a time. Progressed first. I think I understand the concept.. in theory! I'd like some practical help. Here are my natal and progressed charts. Could you point out the major influences?



If you cannot see the image, go to http://www.geocities.com/sorehearted/natal_prog.htm

Thanks.

Progressions

Heart,

Progressions move VERY slowly, so in any particular chart at any particular time it is highly likely that there will be few, if any, progressions strong enough to be noticeable. A way to "ease" into progressions is to take a look at when a planet changes sign. One of the easiest planets to track is the Sun (it moves about a degree a year in progression charts). So when you were 9 your Sun (self-expression) moved from the Sign Leo (self-expression) to the sign Virgo (daily work). Perhaps there was something which occurred to take you out of the "performing" world and more into the routine world in how you express yourself to others around you.

If we use Solar Arcs, then we can apply this "day for a year" method for ALL the planets. Using this theory, the age of 9 becomes even more important, because by Solar Arc Mercury (thinking) conjuncted (energy is combined with) your Nadir (inner world). This would indicate some type of mental "turning within" at this time of changing self-expression (your progressed Sun is the same as your Solar Arc Sun). At the same age (9) your Solar Arc Moon (home, also emotions) would have come out from the 12th house (spirituality, also confusion) and into the 1rst house (being, also action).

All this would indicate somewhere around the age of 9 something happened which, for you, changed your self-expression, made you think deeply on an internal basis, and brought out your emotions.

Making progress,

Tim

C1 said:

Thank you for the article on secondary progressions, Radu....very helpful!
C1

Click to expand...

Huh? Where? When? <looking left and right>

Tim,

Thanks. Wow. Honestly, I don't remember anything from when I was 9. In fact, most of my Childhood memories are not rlated to certain age in my Neptune struck brain. Maybe I was too young to realize I was going through changes. According to what you're saying though, I should feel a huge change in like 16 years when the progressed sun moves to Libra?

sorehearted said:

C1 said:

Thank you for the article on secondary progressions, Radu....very helpful!
C1

Click to expand...

Huh? Where? When? <looking left and right>

Click to expand...

Nevermind!

Progressions not as important to me

Heart,

That's the idea! When Sun (self-expression) progresses into Libra (relationships) there should be a new expression of yourself in terms of relationships.

And I understand the challenges of understanding progressions: I feel the same way, since I also don't have a detailed memory of my early childhood life. I remember an astrologer attempting to step through my entire life, telling me when significant events in my life had to have happened...and I remembered NOTHING about the times the astrologer was describing as being supposedly so important in my life!

It was at THAT time I decided, if astrology was going to mean anything to me, it would have to be interpreted in the context of MY experiences...not based on what was "supposed" to have happened. So at that point I threw out "Saturn is the father", "Moon is the Mother", "Sun is the father" and all the other personal life details astrology claims to be able to identify, and I onlyh focused in on the "key" meanings of the chart...my way of trying to get to the basics of the experience without trying to recite someone's childhood to them!

And that evolved into the approach I use (and push! ) today!

Making progress,

Tim

<<<<<<<8)>>>>>>>>>
< > Hi Sore,
This way :arrow:

You do not miss anything, Ms. Heart!

Anyway, thank you, Sorehearted,
for this progressed thread and for your progressed chart.
*Neptune/Uranus/Pluto/Jupiter/Moon.*...it seems you have lots of interesting aspects
.../zero degree ASC/Taurus, etc.....what's happening is very energetic!

No wonder
you are teaching us to learn progressed charts now
Anyway, you've challenged me, an "Astro-dilettante"
to learn more. And I am trying to make sense
because of you! 8)

Tim, I like what you said (to paraphrase you: "...find what is meaningful,")
....connecting the stars and inner light... thanks you all!

C1

Re: Progressions not as important to me

wilsontc said:

When Sun (self-expression) progresses into Libra (relationships) there should be a new expression of yourself in terms of relationships.

Click to expand...

Good God! I hope this doesn't mean that I'll finally find the one 16 years from now

Thanks for your insights, Tim. Very helpful.

C1. Wow, I feel all inspiring now :!: . Astrology is full of stuff I don't understand, so I think I'll continue to inspire you for a while . I'm gonna check out some articles on Solar Arcs today. Get ready :idea:

This may be a little off-topic, but when I work with a person's progressions, I consider them as the transformations and transmutations of a person's soul in this lifetime. The birth chart provides the basic DNA strands and the progressions, both secondary and Solar Arc, tells me how the DNA is unfolding, combining and recombining to take the person ever closer (or perhaps further away, depending on how one chooses to use the energy) to the soul's purpose in this lifetime. Unlike regular transits, which focus current energy trends into the right this moment now, the progressions are more like beyond time because they focus the energy trend of the past (including previous incarnations, ancestral patterning, and both the remembered and forgotten past of this lifetime), the present and the changeable future into a form that can be used at this moment and can and will affect the past, present and future of the soul.

I do work with both secondary progressions and Solar Arc progressions because of the nuances that they give me. For example, in my chart, my secondary progressed Mercury went Rx when I was 13 and stayed that way until my mid-30s. My Solar Arc Merc, which is not affected by retrogradation, went on its merry way. My secondary progressed Merc is on the separating orbal side of my natal Virgo Merc/Pluto conjunction in the 9th while SA Merc is slightly more than 16° into 10th house Libra. So I have both 9th/10th house and Virgo/Libra lessons to learn from Merc.

SA progressions are also nice because the planets beyond the asteroid belt don't move a lot in secondary progressions. For example, progessed Uranus has only moved 3° from its natal location in my chart where as SA Uranus is (eek! didn't realize this until now) conjuncting my MC and squaring transiting Pluto. Now there are some interesting life lessons for me. :shock: :shock:

My 2¢ worth, as always.

That's not off-topic at all, Elianah. This is precisely what I'm asking about. I keep constructing my progressed and SA charts but I can't make any use of them because I do not know how to interpret them. I keep thinking natal! Your DNA metaphor helped as well as Tim's insights and Radu's new article. I just need to learn to think beyond the basic natal chart interpretation... And as I promised C1, here's a new inspiration coming your way folks;

If a progressed chart and a solar arc chart for the same age obviously contradict each other regarding an issue, how do we deal with that?

Sore,

Remember that progressions, whether secondary or Solar Arc, are transits just as normal transits are. Where progressions differ is that they are much slower transits, especially for the inner planets.

Another metaphorical way to look at it is that progressions are the tree rings of a life whereas the transists are the weather factors affecting those tree rings during a particular year.

The weather that affects a tree ring's growth directly impacts the size of the individual ring. In wetter years there are larger rings because of more growth and in drought years the rings are very narrow or almost non-existent.

So the aspects that the progressed planets make in a chart to the natal chart express the yearly energy growth that a person has made each year and the effect is cumulative. The transits come in and highlight specific energy within the overall growth ring that need to be focused on in that moment.

Now it is important to remember that I do not do predictive astrology and I am not addressing the standard use of progressed planets as predictive tools for a chart. If you are wanting to do predictive astrology, then my metaphors probably will not work.

The important thing is that the planets, signs and houses still have the same energy no matter the type of chart. With progressed charts, just like transit charts, only the planets moves. The progressed planets will make aspects with the natal planets and the transiting planets. What the progressed planets tell us is how the person has developed, transformed and transmuted the original natal energy throughout the span of life.

The secondary progressed chart and the SA normally do not contradict one another because both will always be used in conjunction with the natal chart. They are different commentaries on the progress of natal chart heading toward the goals of the soul in this lifetime. Each commentary needs to be used in tandem with the other to enrich the understanding of how the person the chart represents has come to this present moment. In an average lifetime, the progressed elements might reach a square with the natal planets and a secondary might (but highly unlikely) square an SA, depending upon the retrogradation of the secondary progressed planet.

The thing is, with either type of progression, the size of the greatest aspect will be in unison with the person's age. For me currently that would be a 47° aspect, for you a 26° aspect. I have passed the semi-square aspect in my life and I am currently heading towards my sextile, while you are heading towards your semi-sextile aspect, progression wise.

I hope you find some value in this.

It's practice time!

Hey Sore,

Thought I'd give you (and others on the site) a chance to practice using secondary progressions and solar arcs and use me as the practice target. (Please don't hurt me too much, I'm not that big of a masochist. :shock It's just that I keep seeing my name appearing as the last post in many of the topic headings and feel like I'm hogging the airspace on the site. So I am now offering myself up as a sacrificial guinnea pig to atone for my hot air quotient.

So here is the relevant data for the discussion:

My angles: ASC 8° Sag 41', IC 27° Pisces 30', DSC 8° Gem 41', MC 27° Virgo 30'.

Natal planets within the angular houses:
1st— Moon 16° Sag 19' conjunct Saturn 19° Sag 43' Rx

4th — None (my lunar SN sits on the cusp of the 5th, so it incoporates both 4th and 5th house attributes)

7th — Venus 5° Can 37'

10th — Jupiter 23° Libra 48' (using Placidus House system)

Secondary progressed planets in the angular houses:

1st — Saturn 19° Sag 24' Direct

4th — None

7th — None

10th — Lunar North Node 22° Libra 39'

Solar arc planets in the angular houses:

1st — Jupiter 9° Sag 25', Lunar NN 11° Sag 57', Neptune 17° Sag 40'

4th — Chiron 6° Aries 40'

7th — Mars 19° Gem 8'

10th — Uranus 27° Virgo 3', Mercury 16° Lib 5', Pluto 16° Lib 41'

Other planets you might be interested in:

8th — Natal Sun 3° Leo 23' widely conjunct Natal Uranus 11° Leo 25', 2nd-P Uranus 14° Leo 15'

11th — 2nd-P Jupiter 0° Scorp 51' conjunct natal Neptune 2° Scorp 3' conjunct 2nd-P Neptune 2° Scorp 54'

(As I said, the outer planets don't move much in 2nd-P mode. Jupiter has only moved 7° from its natal placement, Uranus slightly under 3°, and Neptune only 51'.)

Take the info and run with it!

Progressions and Arcs

Elianah,

I'm a visual person so I need to SEE the chart in order to interpret it. For those similarly "data impaired," let me regive your birth data to those who might need it:

...let me give you my birth data...
July 26, 1958 3:49 p.m. CST Des Moines, Iowa...

Click to expand...

Now, remember, you promised NOT to hit me! And I'm TRUSTING you! Remember that everything I am talking about is in the spirit of TEACHING and LEARNING!

Let's start with Solar Arcs first and test your knowledge of the past! When you were 26 by Solar Arc both Pluto (transformation, also power) and Mercury (thinking, also writing/daily work) conjuncted (energy is combined with) your Midheaven. This indicates that there was some sort of powerful, transformative thinking/writing/analysis going on around the time when you were 26. Jumping into the present, by Solar Arc you have Uranus (friends, also astrology) conjunct your Midheaven, indicating some sort of outer world connection with astrology! AND by Solar Arc you have Jupiter (expansion, also knowledge, teaching) conjunct Ascedant (self), indicating you are having some sort of time of personal wisdom and, perhaps, personal wisdom teaching. Neptune (spirituality) Solar Arc was very recently conjunct Moon (home, also emotions) focused in the 1rst house (being), so you recently became aware of a personal spiritual/emotional interconnection.

So much for Solar Arcs! Onto the progressions!

By progression you recently had and may be STILL having progressed (inner world) Moon (home, also emotions) conjunct Pluto (transformation) focused in the 9th house (expansion, also wisdom, teaching), indicating you may have had some sort of emotional transformation recently which experience you can use for teaching others. Also progressed Venus (relationships) recently was and still may be conjunct Pluto, so these emotional inner experiences seem to be linked to a deep awareness of relationships. Since progressed Venus is in Virgo (sign of Venus in its Fall (very challenging energy), this awareness of relationships may have been very challenging in some way. However, since Virgo has to do with daily work, there may also be the element of making these relationships into some sort of routine through transformational awareness and teaching.

And THAT is QUITE enough for a "test run"!

Charting,

Tim

Elianah,

That's cool of you. Thanks! Actually, I already had your birthdata too saved in my Astrodient account. Don't remember why and when I took it from you, but I've had it from a while now.

I didn't look at Tim's interpretation because I wanted to do this without cheating . I'll get on it right now.

Tim,

Remember that we are also out of Mars Rx, so any anger is mitigated by experience and wisdom.

Hmmm...where was I when I was 26? That had to be my soujourn into Indiana (1984-1986) when I worked at the Indiana Repertory Theatre as a public relations intern for a year and really figured out that I really didn't like theatre people (my first incarnation as a college student was as a theatre major for three years—hmm...let's play out that Aries Lunar SN in the 5th). I stayed on in Indiana for another year in a Master of Public Relations program which gave me no masters level education because it was basically a repeat of what I had at the undergrad level. I transfered back to the MA in Mass Communications program I had started out in before going out to Indiana. I received my master's degree in 1987.

Since SA Neptune has been hanging around and in my natal Moon-Saturn Rx conjunction for some time, so I think I have been sorting out my own illusions and disillusions regarding how I express who I am in public. It is interesting to note that SA Neptune is currently in sextile aspect to transiting Neptune in third house Aquarius. Hopefully the spiritual wisdom I am receiving via this configuration (as well as the SA Merc/Pluto sextile to that same 1st house conjunction) will transform how I see my role in public and not be as afraid of it.

As for 2nd-P Venus, if the transformation has taken place, it is hidden to me. Since Venus is the most inward of the planets, I may not see it clearly because of it working towards squaring my ASC.

I didn't pay attention that 2nd-P Moon is now conjuncting my natal Merc/Pluto conjunction. (Remember that I set up the exercise within the cardinal grand cross of houses. I chose that because I thought it would contain a lot of information without overloading everybody. Thus I didn't include much information for the other planets and houses except for the Leo Sun-Uranus conjunction because of its influence trining SA planets in the 1st.) I think that I am responding to that more than the 2nd-P Venus placement—although I'm sure Venus is feeding in a lot of self-worth issues into the mix because I believe it is just out of orb of that conjunction. (www.astro.com is having problems right now, so I can't get to my chart to really see where 2nd-P Venus actually is.)

Oh, before we move on, I have a correction to make. I think in a previous post in this thread I said that all progressions would only make at most a square configuration to their natal placements. That should be all SA progressions. Secondary progressions of the Moon definitely will make all aspectal relationships and most people will have at least one 2nd-P Moon return, if not two, unless death intercedes first. Retrogradation can keep an inner planet from moving much beyond its birth placement, my 2nd-P Merc is an excellent example of that. I think it is currently conjuncting its natal placement in 9th house Virgo.

Back to the disection....

2nd-P Moon is conjunct with my 2nd-P Merc and my natal Merc/Pluto conjunction in the 9th. Emotionally transforming higher wisdom and communicating it in a personally conscious way in forms that are understandable to all, seems to be one theme here.

I'll stop here right now for I'm the sacrifice here...

Hey Elianah,

Your ASC is capricorn now. Although this placement should make you more serious that your natal ASC does, I don't think there's a huge difference to you with your natal Saturn in your natal 1st house

The natal position of your moon describes someone who needs affection and offers it as well but has a tendency to keep people at an arm's length. The progressed position (9th house) shows that maybe your instinctive nature will find expression through phylosophy, religion or traveling. But the progressed moon is almost squaring ASC and DSC. I think this may mean worry about how to present yourself causing trouble in doing so. Your progressed moon is also about to square your natal moon, but I don't know how to interpret that.

Your progressed Saturn is not in Rx motion anymore. I don't what that means either but it sounds like a good thing. But it's now in the 11th house. In my opinion, this is a better place for Saturn because the 11th house is traditionally ruled by it. I guess it means that your sense of responsibility will be directed more or less towards social groups. Intellectuality will gain more importance (Hmm.. Saturn must have been there for years, so I guess this effect is not new).

The progressed fourth house cusp is in Taurus now. Steadier relastionships at home? In your natal first house, you have lilith and Pars Fortunae. That's a very difficult placement for meto understand. However, progressed PF has left the 4th house and lilith is there all alone (eek. Hope that progressed steady taurus helps).

Progressed Mars has left the 5th house and is now in the 6th. That natal position could either be really, really good or really, really bad. But Mars in the 6th house has shown illness as a transit. I wonder if in progression it means the same. Anyway, porgressed mars is leaving a conj. with Algol, so I guess the effect was in fact malefic whether to daily work routine or health.

Venus is not in the 7th house anymore. Judging by its position, i bet that happened very early in your life. The natal position could give a tendency to need a steady relastionship in order to function. The porgressed position in the 9th house, I think, add to the effect of the progressed moon there. An interesting thing blew this inetrpretation right at my face when I constrcuted the progressed chart alone away from the natal. Your progressed 7th house has the moon, mercury, venus, pluto, pallas, vesta and the vertex! Very explosive. That stellium MUST be directing your energy to the 7th house issues regardless of the fact that this stellium falls in your natal 9th house. Also, the progressed DSC in Cancer shows that, contrary to yur natal Gemini DSC, your need emotional support not just an intellect and verbal communication from a partner.

Your natal 10th house doesn't have Jupiter any more. Your progressed Jupiter is in the 11th house. More friends? Better networking? Imporoved social skills? All of the above . Your 10th house still have the North Node though so you'll continue to need to have more focus on your public liife and stop depending on your home or family or even stop blaming them for what's become of you.

Hmm. I've only done the angular houses. I'll stop blabing now and wait for you to tell me if I'm even remotely correct. I've decided not to do the Solar Arc because I'm not comofortable interpreting it like the Secondary Progressions and frankly, right now, I'm too tired to calculate arcs and openings and try to find equal ones.