Horary charts & transits

kx5

kx5

Well-known member
About a year ago, when I was an amateur and unfamiliar with horary astrology, I used to answer my questions using transits rather than horary charts.
For example, let's suppose that I had taken an exam, say, on the 23rd, and the results were to come out on the 27th. Naturally, I was quite eager to know how I did, and therefore wanted to attempt to 'predict' the mark I'd get. So, I made the following hypothesis:

- If I got a good mark, or a mark that I considered satisfactory anyway, the transiting planets on the 27th would make favourable and/or pleasant aspects to my natal chart. Of course, transits supposedly describe the 'atmosphere' of the entire day, and the hue of your emotions during this day. So, I would most likely not be able to tell whether I'd be happy because of any other good event or because I did well in my exam. Still, given the importance of the exam to me, I considered it what would affect my mood the most on the 27th, and as such considered all positive transits to refer one way or another to my exam.
- Similarly, any negative aspects made by the transiting planets to my natal chart would be interpreted as a failure. As I said before, the cause of my anguish on the 27th could be pretty much anything, but I took it to be directly related to my exam.

I'm not sure whether it was coincidental, but most of the time, whenever I made such predictions based on transits, I would be spot on.

That said, horary astrology presents us with a different approach: that of directly asking the question 'Have I gotten a good mark on (and therefore passed) my exam?' and getting a definite yes or no answer. Still, the interpretation of horary charts is complicated, and not easy for someone who's not yet experienced with astrology.

Would you say that my initial method (the transit one) is unorthodox, vague, or incorrect? If yes, what makes horary astrology a better tool for answering such questions?
 
Kaiousei no Senshi

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Some of the differences are going to come down to the efficacy of transits. Some astrologers like to use them and think they are one of the best predictive techniques, others are much more skeptical and have them on the bottom of their predictive totem.

As far as horary regarding exams, this runs into several philosophical problems as well. Some astrologers think these kinds of questions are trivial and impractical. Another issue is that I, personally at least, have not seen a good technique for this kind of question. You see these kinds of questions every now and again, but astrologers come at them from such different angles that the confusion and uncertainty is palpable.
 
Z

Zarathu

Account Closed
In LARGE PART, I defer to Kai who has made Horary a specialty.

However, you have asked two questions. Certainly looking at the transits can be useful and successful, and sometimes not.

Horary is based on endless rules for how things work. If you see this, that that is the result. Some of the rules are contradictory, and sometimes you simply have to see how many answers on the yes side and how many on the no side and choose the one with more.

I tend to do horary almost entirely with the Moon. I only have 150 rules in my collection, but for most questions this is all that is needed to come up with a satisfactory conclusion. For really complex questions, you have to go beyond the interaction of the Moon with the question, but for 90% in my experience, that is all that is needed. For the other 10%, I let the real horary specialist astrologers like Kai handle it. Also, I am a modern horary astrologer, not a traditional one. I don't read Lilly, Al Biruni and the others. I have their books and I could, but I just choose to do other things with my astrological study.
 
kx5

kx5

Well-known member
Kaiousei no Senshi said:
As far as horary regarding exams, this runs into several philosophical problems as well. Some astrologers think these kinds of questions are trivial and impractical. Another issue is that I, personally at least, have not seen a good technique for this kind of question. You see these kinds of questions every now and again, but astrologers come at them from such different angles that the confusion and uncertainty is palpable.
Click to expand...
This was just an example of a question which could, theoretically, be answered in these two possible ways. Similar more important questions could be whether a woman is pregnant, whether a wedding is annulled etc.


I truly appreciate your answers, but I remain puzzled. So far, I understand that both predictive methods could be used, depending on the nature and seriousness of the matter in question, as well as the personal convictions of every astrologer; however, there must be some way for an astrologer to 'know' which method is more appropriate when it comes to a question, or whether a combination of both is necessary.

I'd like to also ask, supposing that someone uses both the transit method and an horary chart, would the opinions of those two (the yes/no answer of the horary chart, and the general mood of the transits) be in agreement? For example, if in an horary chart it turned out that I did pass my exam (a yes), would the transits also agree? In other words, is it possible that the horary chart will ever be in disagreement with the transits?
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
kx5 said:
About a year ago, when I was an amateur and unfamiliar with horary astrology, I used to answer my questions using transits rather than horary charts.
For example, let's suppose that I had taken an exam, say, on the 23rd, and the results were to come out on the 27th. Naturally, I was quite eager to know how I did, and therefore wanted to attempt to 'predict' the mark I'd get. So, I made the following hypothesis:

- If I got a good mark, or a mark that I considered satisfactory anyway, the transiting planets on the 27th would make favourable and/or pleasant aspects to my natal chart. Of course, transits supposedly describe the 'atmosphere' of the entire day, and the hue of your emotions during this day. So, I would most likely not be able to tell whether I'd be happy because of any other good event or because I did well in my exam. Still, given the importance of the exam to me, I considered it what would affect my mood the most on the 27th, and as such considered all positive transits to refer one way or another to my exam.
- Similarly, any negative aspects made by the transiting planets to my natal chart would be interpreted as a failure. As I said before, the cause of my anguish on the 27th could be pretty much anything, but I took it to be directly related to my exam.

I'm not sure whether it was coincidental, but most of the time, whenever I made such predictions based on transits, I would be spot on.

That said, horary astrology presents us with a different approach: that of directly asking the question 'Have I gotten a good mark on (and therefore passed) my exam?' and getting a definite yes or no answer. Still, the interpretation of horary charts is complicated, and not easy for someone who's not yet experienced with astrology.

Would you say that my initial method (the transit one) is unorthodox, vague, or incorrect?

If yes, what makes horary astrology a better tool for answering such questions?
Click to expand...
Transits are noted by astrologers for the purposes of predicting events
according to THE NATAL PROMISE of a natal chart
HOWEVER
keep in mind that TRANSITS have an effect
only when in aspect with the LORD OF THE YEARLY PROFECTION :smile:

by the way
IF
an individual has their time and location of birth
then HORARY is not always necessary

HOWEVER

HORARY astrology is of value to those who do not have their time and location of birth

BobZemco has given a useful summary of HORARY BASICS
BobZemco said:
The theory behind Horary is very simple:

1) there is a Question that weighs very heavily on your mind.

2) when you have a clear understanding of what it is that you really want to know, you cast a chart or an astrologer casts one for you

3) That freezes the Planets as they transit the heavens at that moment (hence: Horary)

4) the Rising Sign and Planet that rules the Rising Sign represents you

5) the House, or often more correctly, the Sign that represents the Matter you're asking about and the Planet that rules that Sign represents the Matter. The Matter can be a person or a thing or an idea (like a rumor or a dream).

6) the relationship between those two rulers tells you what has happened, and what is yet to come. That relationship is in the form of aspects. If there are no aspects, then there is nothing to come.

7) the Moon plays a special dual-role signifying the State of Mind of the Querent and also how things play out, how they happen, and when they happen. When there are no aspects formed by the Moon (ie it is Void of Course) then nothing will happen. Note that there are a handful of certain special select Horary Questions where a Void of Course Moon is not relevant. Those are often war, conflict or legal questions, or Questions related to Career.

8) in addition to forming aspects, those Planets must also have Perfect Reception, as opposed to simple Reception. Reception is about "allowing." For example if Mars is applying in aspect to Jupiter, and Jupiter receives Mars then Jupiter is allowing Mars to act. Jupiter is effectively saying, "Go ahead and do that thing that you do." If Jupiter does not receive Mars, then Jupiter is effectively saying, "Go away and leave me alone. Go. Get out of here." If it is a Sign of Enmity, like Mars in Capricorn (the Fall of Jupiter) then Jupiter is effectively saying, "Cease and Desist. I will stop you from doing anything. If necessary, I may even get violent to stop you." And that just might be the case if Jupiter were also in a Violent Sign, otherwise Jupiter would just keep slamming doors in your face.

9) How things actually play out depends a lot on the "strength" of the Planets involved. The strength of the Planets indicates their ability to do act and do things and carry out plans and make things happen. A Planet that is not just in its own Sign, but also in its Triplicity or Term, and is Direct in Motion, Fast in Speed, Angular or Succedent, in Hayz, in a trine aspect with Venus/Jupiter/Sun is very powerful. That's a person with a purpose in life who has both the will and ability to act and make things happen.

A Planet that is Slow in Speed, Retrograde, in Fall/Detriment, Cadent, and not in Sect or worse is Out-of Sect isn't going to be able to do anything, even when there is Perfect Reception in the chart, this person is going to botch every thing up and turn a dream about ponies and gum-drops into a nightmare, because they don't have the strength or will to make things happen.

10) when charts have early/late Ascendants, Void of Course Moons, Moon via Combusta, Saturn in the 1st or 7th House (when not a significator) you can look at the chart for reasons why you are getting those warnings.

Often a non-significator Planet is making an aspect to one of the primary significators. Sextiles and trines usually indicate on-going events which first must be completed before anything can happen. Conjunctions, squares and opposition usually indicate obstacles that are preventing things from happening, and with the "hard" aspects sometimes things can still happen if those obstacles can be overcome.

The condition and placement of the Moon/Ascendant Ruler will tell you the State of Mind and what kind of person the Querent is; good-hearted, or ambivalent, or in sheer terror, in a total panic, has the "stink of desperation" or is immature and selfish, looking do to harm, or is someone you wouldn't let your dog go near. The Planet that is the Quesited/Matter will tell you about them, but not with the same clarity as the Querent. A poorly placed 10th House Ruler might be a job you really don't want, because it ain't all that or isn't what you think it is. A poorly placed 7th House Ruler is someone you might not really want to be with, or something you don't really want to buy and so on.

For a Planet (like the Ascendant Ruler) in Detriment, it is important that it make an aspect to the 1st House (ie it is not inconjunct in the 2nd, 6th, 8th or 12th Houses), and for other significators that it aspect the House it rules. A Planet that is inconjunct to the House it rules can't witness or give testimony to the affairs of that House. That means it cannot control those events, and being weak in Detriment has even less control and less ability to effect outcomes.
Click to expand...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
kx5 said:
This was just an example of a question which could, theoretically, be answered in these two possible ways. Similar more important questions could be whether a woman is pregnant, whether a wedding is annulled etc.


I truly appreciate your answers, but I remain puzzled. So far, I understand that both predictive methods could be used, depending on the nature and seriousness of the matter in question, as well as the personal convictions of every astrologer; however, there must be some way for an astrologer to 'know' which method is more appropriate when it comes to a question, or whether a combination of both is necessary.

I'd like to also ask, supposing that someone uses both the transit method and an horary chart, would the opinions of those two (the yes/no answer of the horary chart, and the general mood of the transits) be in agreement? For example, if in an horary chart it turned out that I did pass my exam (a yes), would the transits also agree? In other words, is it possible that the horary chart will ever be in disagreement with the transits?
Click to expand...
Transits may be analysed on a daily basis
so
that's fine to study the transits on a daily basis
with the same question in mind :smile:

HOWEVER
Any particular Horary question may only be repeated after approximately a year
or when the timespan indicated by Horary rules has passed
 
Kaiousei no Senshi

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Hi kx5,

I'm sorry for spending so much of my previous response focusing on the wrong aspect of your question.

I truly appreciate your answers, but I remain puzzled. So far, I understand that both predictive methods could be used, depending on the nature and seriousness of the matter in question, as well as the personal convictions of every astrologer; however, there must be some way for an astrologer to 'know' which method is more appropriate when it comes to a question, or whether a combination of both is necessary.
Click to expand...

I think that the "knowing" aspect of this is going to be solved by those convictions of every astrologer. However, I would think that most questions put to horary wouldn't be successfully tracked by transits or otherwise would not be able to show the full picture of a situation. Using the example of the pregnant woman, perhaps the transits show some sort of Fifith house activity suggesting conception, but it wouldn't likely be able to show whether the pregnancy would be carried to term and why or why not. So in this regard horary is definitely the superior method, if only because of the amount of information that you can get from it.

I also think you've touched on an important issue with the focus on transits like this, they are often vague and hit-or-miss which is why many classical astrologers consider them last. One may be experiencing a good transit that results in nothing, which could lead one astray or a transit which may otherwise be discussing something else irrelevant to the concern.

I'd like to also ask, supposing that someone uses both the transit method and an horary chart, would the opinions of those two (the yes/no answer of the horary chart, and the general mood of the transits) be in agreement? For example, if in an horary chart it turned out that I did pass my exam (a yes), would the transits also agree? In other words, is it possible that the horary chart will ever be in disagreement with the transits?
Click to expand...

In theory yes, but this is assuming that other time lord techniques are in place to validate the promise of these transits. I have an example, but it doesn't have to do with transits.

My husband's solar return clearly showed that he would be getting a new job (L1 in 10th, L10 square Ascendant), but that it would kind of suck because it would be far away (L10 in 9th), but the money would be good (LoF on Second, Trine Jupiter). He had applied for one position thinking it might be it, but another, better position opened up. He asked the horary if he stopped the application process on the first one, would he get the second position or if he should just settle with the first (company doesn't allow two different applications at once). The horary showed him getting the second job (out of state), it ended up using the same significators as in his solar return, and he got the second, higher paying position.

Promise in a natal chart shown fulfilled in a horary.
 
Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
I'm not sure that I would even consider Did I pass the exam? as a valid question for a horary. It's kind of pointless, so hear me out here:

The exam has already been taken. You'll have the results soon, and if you failed, it's already done. The horary can't tell you any corrective course of action, whereas if you asked Will I pass the exam? and the answer was no, the chart might show your lack of dignity (go study!) or some disruptive influence on the day (reschedule the test).

Do you understand? Why ask a horary when the die is cast and you will soon discover the answer by normal means? If the answer comes down to impatience, I think you're probably misusing horary.
 
Julian

Julian

Banned
I dug up and searched for threads talking about exams. My transits on the day I do my exam are very good but not so good on the 30th of July (when I get my results)
 
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