Global Financial System on the Brink

Theo

Banned
Confusedpisces said:
I have to disagree, Theo. Waking up is always a good thing especially in this case. "Better late then never". We cannot allow this World to fall into their hands. Not only because it is morally wrong and incorrect to control other people. But if that happens. The right to choice. The right to happiness, all of that will be taken away. We must fight. This world was a gift to us Humans. How we treat it is our responsibility. How we treat ourselves is our responsibility. So, this group which threatens to destroy the freedom of choice and ultimately freedom of life. Cannot be allowed.

We must fight. For the future to dream. For the future to happiness, for a world where we truly are one. Not a world where we are forced to become.

In order to "fight" one must first be "awake" and frankly, I have not seen this yet, and by the time many people will awake, it will have already been way too late...

Now, there's hope, mind you, yes, but with experience and length of days you will see the truth of what I've said here. People first have to wake up and this means seeing time as it is and not something "outside" of themselves, which is how the majority of the world sees time itself.

Try a test: ask people to name the order the months in sequence, and see if they get it right. I've got it right, and know what "time" it is always. In order to be awake, one must first "awaken."

MARCH - 1st month
APRIL - 2nd month
MAY - 3rd month
JUNE - 4th month
JULY - 5th month
AUGUST - 6th month
SEPTEMBER -7th month
OCTOBER - 8th month
NOVEMBER - 9th month
DECEMBER - 10th month
JANUARY - 11th month
FEBURARY -12th month
 

Inside Out Orange

Well-known member
Confusedpisces said:
This boggles my mind. How did this come about? When did we run a system that had March as the first month?

I'd assume it comes from primitive times when the year 'started' in Spring at the Vernal Equinox in late March. Must be at least back to the Romans who I believe named August after the emperor Augustus Caesar, and September being the seventh month, December being the tenth.
 

Theo

Banned
The True Calendar

Inside Out Orange said:
I'd assume it comes from primitive times when the year 'started' in Spring at the Vernal Equinox in late March. Must be at least back to the Romans who I believe named August after the emperor Augustus Caesar, and September being the seventh month, December being the tenth.

There's nothing "primative" about those times. Anyone who studies astrology must surely know that the calendar system used by most people today is a false system. It continues in its use. That is primative.

The first month of the year is in mid-March, with the vernal equinox. March 20-21 is noted as the start of the true year, the Astrological Year, with Aries being the First House. This is the true calendar, which classical astrologers have used since antiquity. This calendar was changed by the Romans (Julian calendar) and further altered by the Vatican. It was never returned to the truth of the seasons of the Earth. However, all astrologers know that the "New Year" does NOT begin on January 1 (Sun at 10-degrees Capricorn) but the true New Year begins in mid-March, when the Sun reaches 0-Aries and the Earth is at equinox.

Look up the meanings of the words of the month, and you will see that this is true. For instance, "Sept" means the number (7) seven; and "Oct" means the number (8); "Nov" = number (9); "Dec" = number (10)

The True Calendar, in order, goes:

March - 1st month (Aries)
April - 2nd month (Taurus)
May - 3rd month (Gemini)
June - 4th month (Cancer
July - 5th month (Leo)
August - 6th month - (Virgo)
September - 7th month - (Libra)
October - 8th month (Scorpio)
November - 9th month (Sagittarius)
December - 10th month (Capricorn)
January - 11th month (Aquarius)
February - 12 month (Pisces)
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
Confusedpisces said:
This boggles my mind. How did this come about? When did we run a system that had March as the first month?

For about 9,500 years or so. The week was originally Sunday through Saturday, with the sabbath being on Saturday. The Roman Catholic Church changed that. That also meant changing Good Thursday to Good Friday. The Church changed a lot of dates in order to coopt "pagans" into their belief system and gain authority.

I think Kepler and Solar Fire have star maps, so if you're uncertain of a date calendar-wise you can use the star maps to get a date. Some events were clearly marked by planetary aspects and so noted in written texts.
 

The_Sundance_Kid

Well-known member
I think economics is a very fluid and reflexive phenomenon, so I do think it particularly difficult to analyse through astrology. Especially with regards to bulls and bears. For instance, if there really was an important link between Jupiter and Saturn, then a conjunction between the two is pretty regular, and should be repeated around the world continuously throughout history.

But then maybe it becomes more important in some charts than others, depending on the country used and the signs and aspects in that particular decade. But even if this were true, Jupiter and Saturn are actually trine now... and in the UK we're officially in recession so this has been happening for 6 months. Add to that the degree of speculation given to any political chart as representing a country and I think we have the potential for all sorts of confusion.

It is also difficult to think of this subject without acknowledging that a great deal of the energy a chart might represent can be expressed through the masses and not in actual facts. Public attitudes, cultural changes etc might all be representative of astrological factors. Economics is reflexive, stock prices can effect consumers and investors, and vice versa. A company with a plunging stock price might be less able to get credit, will not be able to raise new capital, etc. Even commodity markets not only determine the price, but also determine the choices of produces, which in turn determines the price. It is a constant circular feedback loop. And these processes all interrelate over a long time such that it is hard to pin point the whens and wheres.

So Bob said the grand cross happened much later than the actual stock crash, which in turn happened after the recession. And I think he's right, if we go by dates then one may not be able to pinpoint the aspects to the problems at the time. We have to accept these limitations. Maybe the grand cross showed an epoch or crystalising moment, the nadir even, if not in a purely economic way then in a political and psychological one.

How are we to process all of these factors? I have no idea.

If you take the current crisis, some may see it as a sign that the system is inherently flawed. I disagree. I think it shows that the current system is mostly right but needs some fixes and alterations. Commercial democracies have been the most successful and stable nations, bringing unrivalled prosperity to the masses. Every now and then investments may have been unwise and unregulated, but these are the growing pains of an ever emerging globalised society.

I don't think this really has to do with redistribution of wealth- to think of Africa and the rest, they need much more political stability than anything else.

Corruption might be another big factor, but this has been the plague of man since whenever. Men in a democracy are no less susceptible to being corrupt than in other forms of government. It is the culture one grows up in that creates a corrup administrator.

EDIT Jupiter and Saturn were in trine. They're out of orb now.
 

The_Sundance_Kid

Well-known member
Moving on, I think the most important astrological symbol for 2008 would have to be Pluto moving into Capricorn. As I am no good at looking at charts of countries I can only speculate on it in abstract or pure form, and I think this might increasingly be useful given that the world is becoming increasingly globalised.

Now I believe astrology is better in hindsight than it ever can be in foresight. But even in 2005 I had noted that in 2008 there would be the beginning of great turmoil in financial institutions because of the Pluto Capricorn thing. And pretty much everyone on any astrology forum I've seen has said the same thing for about as long.

In hindsight though we might go even further. I think the orthodoxy was that Pluto in Sagittarius was about die-hard religious fanaticism, the distinction between freedom fighter and terrorist, and worries over excessive idealism being dangerous. Wars between countries thousands of miles away, wars between cultures was a common motif.

In hindsight we might also talk of Pluto in Sagittarius bringing an increase and over-speculation in risk. An acceleration of transactions at a pace that should have been more cautious. I don't know much about the institutions, but I'm thinking of derivatives and other risk markets. And investment banks blurring the boundaries between main street mortgage banks and uber-being derivative and complex financial instruments. The two should have been merged with greater care. Now if we think of Taurus as Main Street and Scorpio as Wall Street does this show up in the emphemerides? Well Venus is far too transitory for us to tell.

Now where did this risk taking come from? De-regulation in the 1980s? Someone said this was a major mistake, but it was not wholly bad. It helped revive the economies of most nations that took it up. Thatcher and Reagan. Even the end of the Cold War. In the latter 1980's Neptune was in Capricorn, and Pluto moved into Scorpio. Now if we think that Pluto and Scorpio are Wall Street, then they would become much more powerful at this time. And I think they were more powerful. Western economies, especially the UK become much more focused on the financial services economy as it became the big earner. But I think Wall Street and the essence of capitalism lies in a relaxed government attitude, which did not regulate much.

I think de-regulation might be contrary to Capricorn, a sign I think of as beaurocratic and with a hint of authoritarianism to it. So if Neptune was in Capricorn then we were maybe over-idealising the relationship between governments and markets. We thought we had struck a perfect balance when in fact the 1980's, although de-regulating markets as a whole, were also a time of increasingly authoritarian government. Thatcher tried to destroy local politics. Maybe in America the Federal government became more powerful as well?

The dichotomy of privatisation might be a good example. Industries run by government were sold off to make money, but instead of being run by government they were instead heavily regulated, making it difficult for them to breathe.

So now Pluto is in Capricorn, the illusion is being unravelled. The unregulated investment banks, after being overly speculative in their transactions and swaps (Pluto in Sagittarius) have exposed the underlying illusion that governments can be laid back whilst allowing a liberated financial services economy to thrive.

And while Neptune might show change stemming from (sometimes false) romanticism, I think Pluto shows change stemming from necessity. So now these financial institutions have become toxic it is becoming clear that the derivatives and sub-prime mortgage risks are spread in a rather unfathomable way, hidden in the whole system. I think that now Pluto has shown the need, the long Capricorn transit will show how an economic crisis can cause greater political change. As I think Capricorn is slightly tinged with authoritarianism, I think Pluto might bring out this quality. And the multi-billion currency bailouts the government is lauding over us all might also be an example.

Now I haven't mentioned Uranus at all, but I'm sure he is playing a role too. But I think his role occurs more through aspects. And I'm sure Saturn and Jupiter can aggravate or mitigate certain flashpoints.

So how might this project into the future? Well Neptune has been in Aquarius, while Pluto was in Sagittarius, so we must look to what we think Neptune has been doing there, what idyllic illusion is he creating, that Pluto might be forced to sweep up after?

Some guesses include: the illusion that we are a functioning democracy with rights etc, when in fact Pluto in Sagittarius show's us increasingly at each other's throats and in Capricorn will show the increasing lack of citizen power. But then Neptune will be in Pisces. Gees, this story never ends...

Two cents :)
 
I'm new here, but this question caught my eye. I subscribe to Ray Merriman's MMA Cycles report, which comes out monthly. He also has a weekly preview on his website. He is a financial analyst who uses mundane astrology to forecast trends in the stock and commodities markets worldwide. He has an excellent article on his website, MMA Cycles, which explains the current financial problems, which he forecast in 1996. He does an annual forecast for each coming year.
The following is a quote from his 2007 article about the coming cardinal climax and T-square of Pluto, Uranus and Saturn. The article also includes an excellent illustration of a T-square on a chart. The entire article should read from start to finish.

"Standing like a huge monolith rising out of the earth in the middle of nowhere, and casting a very long shadow over all the other signatures within the forthcoming “Cardinal Climax,” stands Pluto in Capricorn. This is the initial signature that starts the complex and fascinating cosmic pattern of the “Cardinal Climax,” and it is the last to leave. The principles of these two astrological symbols – Pluto and Capricorn – are intertwined very closely with all the other signatures and patterns in effect between 2008 and 2015, and even into 2020 when Saturn and Pluto return to their 32-37 year conjunction." (Article title is Pluto in Capricorn, by Ray Merriman).

His weekly preview is free, the more detailed forecasts are by subscription, but I received an alert on Sunday with a projection for this week, Feb 1, 2009 through Feb. 7 (my birthday): If the DJIA does not close at or above 8300 for two days during this week, there may be a near panic sell off.

I am not an astrologer, although I do consult with one regularly. I have been working on a personal project that is proving to be self-sufficient and profitable, and I seem to be flourishing while other people are struggling, which I don't understand, so I am using a small portion of my profits as they come in to donate to the local food bank. We seen to be at the beginning of something that is having a drastic effect on a great many people, and appears to be similar to the events of the Great Depression, however, since this is the beginning and we have more options available to us than there were then, I think the wisest course is to try to be as aware and as prepared for anything as you possibly can, including food shortages, and to be as careful with money as possible. Think twice and then think again before you buy something, and look for discounts wherever possible. Above all, try to count the good things in your life, as well as the "bad" things. The good things are rewards and the "bad" things can make you a stronger person.
 

astrop86

Well-known member
Just a general update from the news feeds around the world regarding the crisis.

There have been riots reported in the cities of Moscow, Riga (Latvia), Paris, and Athens, as well as in regions of Luthuania, Bulgaria, and the UK.

California has recently begun printing "IOU" checks to pay its state workers and services in the highway patrol and social services, as well as canceling state pension payments to its state employees as an attempt to buy time until a budget of some form passes.

Finally, AZ, MO, MI, MT, NH, OK, WA are working on state resolutions to remind the US Federal Gov't that they reserve certain rights under the 10th amendment, including secession if necessary.

China is quickly pumping out stimulus plans to their nation to convert their society into a consumer based society, all while the US, UK, Germany, France, Australia and a host of other nations are printing money to inject into their financial sectors. I believe Russia has given up on stimulus / bailout packages and is beginning to find other means.

This is just the geopolitical parts of what is going on. I'm not sure how to draw up a chart for this crisis, as no one really knows when it actually started. Some could argue when Bear Sterns and Lehman Brothers failed, others could argue as far back as the early 1900's when the Federal Reserve Bank was established.
 
To Astrop86: try using the date July 2, 1776, to calculate the chart for the USA, which was the date the Declaration of Independence was actually signed. It was in the afternoon, and I believe it may have been 2PM EST, but I'm not sure about that.
 

HH

Active member
Such gloom and doom - no medications if we get off oil! This is not about not using another drop of oil but simply not having our entire economy mindlessly dependent upon it!
Hey - what happened to ASTROLOGY??????? This is not a political blog, no wonder its getting so hyperbolic. A comment here and there is appropriate but folks come here to astro talk. What about the U.S. having a Saturn return coming up at 14 Libra?
 

estrella

Well-known member
Such gloom and doom - no medications if we get off oil! This is not about not using another drop of oil but simply not having our entire economy mindlessly dependent upon it!
Hey - what happened to ASTROLOGY??????? This is not a political blog, no wonder its getting so hyperbolic. A comment here and there is appropriate but folks come here to astro talk. What about the U.S. having a Saturn return coming up at 14 Libra?

I see what you are saying about getting away from the astrology and into proselytizing particular political points of view-and I agree that it is best to try to stay objective and focus on the astrology. That being said, I think that the "hyperbole" you are referring to stems from peoples stressful reaction to the fundamentally transformative time we are going through right now. This is a critical time in the life of the American Empire.

Pluto in Capricorn is totally transforming our economic and social infrastructures. The materialism, greed, and corporate corruption that we as a nation idealized back in the 1980's when Neptune was in Cap is being brought down to earth. Pluto is exposing the corruption so blatantly in our faces that we can no longer turn away. To see our ideals about our government, standard of living, and economy being so drastically shot down is upsetting and downright scary for people who are suffering financially. Hopefully when Pluto leaves Capricorn we will have learned a collective lesson about greed and corruption, and be left with a more austere, realistic, and equitable economic structure. Pluto in Cap is telling us that the way we have been doing business has been unsustainable.

Also, the Saturn/Uranus opposition is highlighting the struggle between conservative, status-quo and radical, progressive ideals that is going on in a big way right now. On one hand are people who are scared and insecure in the tumult who want to cling to their old ideas, and on the other hand are people who are pushing for progressive ideas whose time has come. This is an intense opposition that can easily get violent. The last time this opposition was active was in the mid 1960's.

We also have some more transformative astro phenomenon that will be going on with the cardinal cross and series of eclipses in the Cancer/Cap axis from 2010-2012. There are some major changes in store for the US.

Yes, the US Saturn return of 2010 will be one more indicator of the trying time we are going through. Hopefully, some wisdom and constructive maturation will come from it.
But, I think that the really big transformative spur will be the US Pluto return in 2022 at 27 degrees Capricorn. In the Sibly chart, Pluto is in the 2nd house of material values and money-so I have a really strong feeling that the Pluto return will go along with some drastic changes in our currency, markets, and economic system in general.
 
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