Is it a bad thing that *I* despise the victimhood mentality in people?

waybread

Well-known member
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

rollindays, if you went through some really awful times in your life, your Scorpio nature probably took a sense of pride in being strong and tough, regardless. You did what worked best for you, for your own emotional survival. Maybe now you can look at some of those difficult incidents, and just let yourself be more in touch with your true feelings about them.

This is purely so that you don't "despise" people whom you see as self-declared "victims," because hatred is not a healthy emotion.
 

Tessie

Banned
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

I think it's a combination of both I'm seeing: I am owning/master some unwanted parts, as well as attracting people who emblemize the negative side of my chart placements.

Although I must say, about 7-8 years ago, I was only doing the latter, but not the former.

I must say, I do have a lot of emotional wounds from the past/present. The more I see in the world, the more pessimistic I am about things. I do not think I was this pessimistic about things before (in my teenage years), or maybe I did not embrace the pessimism in me, or was not aware of it.

Humans have a very limited perspective on reality. It helps some to look at life on Earth as a school. There is a time and a season for every purpose under the Heaven (Eccl. 3). Often times it is impossible to perceive what a particular season is purposed to accomplish until that season is finished, and it's only then that we can look back and realize the lessons we learned and how we never knew the lessons of that season were even needed. The reason we seldom know which lessons we need, as opposed to want, is because it's the human condition to feel prideful and enlightened when, really, we are not. This hubris is also what causes a person to believe they know what is best for another, a belief they use subsequently to micro-manage another's life, which is abuse. Hubris should be overcome.

Seeking to rush (control) someone through their personal process of spiritual maturity is not an act of protection. It is an act of misdirection. The focus is on quantity whereas it should be on quality. It is more important for a given individual to learn properly, and this takes time, than for the given individual to submit the assignment, having never really learned. I know many people who do not play the victim role but who are also the people who have bypassed important lessons, because they were in a hurry. Abuse illustrates my point. The vast majority of abusers are people who have been abused themselves. You speak about fate. This result is not fated. The mechanism by which it happens is when the victim rushes recovery, represses what remains, and yet their subconscious mind motivates them to cope by the exact means which they repressed.

Have you ever heard the adage, the long dark knight of the soul? There is a reason it is long. Soul growth is not something which can be, or should be, rushed. Since we are all in different seasons, you'll find what is mastered by one person, perhaps in early youth, may be a recurring theme that needs to be redressed for someone much older, a lesson that repeats itself over and again until it is consolidated. This process is illustrated biblically by the Israelites going around the same mountain, which they were doing because of idolatry. We all have mountains which we circle many times and, also, people in our lives who may or may not do the same. However, this experience is as much for our learning as it is for theirs. Their lesson may be to overcome but our lesson is certainly to grow in Patience and Humility. There is nothing wrong with offering wise counsel in humility, but you are not asking about that.

Other people's lives or lessons are not for us to hurry (control). We are all parts of life's rich tapestry; none of us are superior or more enlightened than the other. We are just called to Love one another. Love melts away all impatience with others. Even when we are short on Love, we are still to pursue it. x x x
 
Last edited:

rollindays

Well-known member
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

Humans have a very limited perspective on reality. It helps some to look at life on Earth as a school. There is a time and a season for every purpose under the Heaven (Eccl. 3). Often times it is impossible to perceive what a particular season is purposed to accomplish until that season is finished, and it's only then that we can look back and realize the lessons we learned and how we never knew the lessons of that season were even needed. The reason we seldom know which lessons we need, as opposed to want, is because it's the human condition to feel prideful and enlightened when, really, we are not. This hubris is also what causes a person to believe they know what is best for another, a belief they use subsequently to micro-manage another's life, which is abuse. Hubris should be overcome.

Seeking to rush (control) someone through their personal process of spiritual maturity is not an act of protection. It is an act of misdirection. The focus is on quantity whereas it should be on quality. It is more important for a given individual to learn properly, and this takes time, than for the given individual to submit the assignment, having never really learned. I know many people who do not play the victim role but who are also the people who have bypassed important lessons, because they were in a hurry. Abuse illustrates my point. The vast majority of abusers are people who have been abused themselves. You speak about fate. This result is not fated. The mechanism by which it happens is when the victim rushes recovery, represses what remains, and yet their subconscious mind motivates them to cope by the exact means which they repressed.

Have you ever heard the adage, the long dark knight of the soul? There is a reason it is long. Soul growth is not something which can be, or should be, rushed. Since we are all in different seasons, you'll find what is mastered by one person, perhaps in early youth, may be a recurring theme that needs to be redressed for someone much older, a lesson that repeats itself over and again until it is consolidated. This process is illustrated biblically by the Israelites going around the same mountain, which they were doing because of idolatry. We all have mountains which we circle many times and, also, people in our lives who may or may not do the same. However, this experience is as much for our learning as it is for theirs. Their lesson may be to overcome but our lesson is certainly to grow in Patience and Humility. There is nothing wrong with offering wise counsel in humility, but you are not asking about that.

Other people's lives or lessons are not for us to hurry (control). We are all parts of life's rich tapestry; none of us are superior or more enlightened than the other. We are just called to Love one another. Love melts away all impatience with others. Even when we are short on Love, we are still to pursue it. x x x

Speaking from many experiences in my life.

I have helped a few people for years, to overcome abuse, trauma and many other things. When they got over a particular situation, a particular person; they have gone from suffering to narcissism to victimhood again. It is the same patterns, same things. There is one constant in most situations: the person who calls themselves a victim.

I have approached people with humility and an open mind, and even though I personally invested in people; I never told them what to do, or judged them for the choices they made. They were free to make their own decisions, and it never had any bearing on me.

But I have seen these people take advantage of this victimhood, and take comfort in this state.

I'm not saying there is no such thing as a victim, but there are much fewer of them that are true victims than the ones that claim are. And they don't always stay in that perpetual state, or at least try to overcome it.

I think the question we need to ask is, who is really a "victim"? What is really the definition of a victim? Does everyone who say they are victims really victims?

Do victims really want to remain victims for the rest of their lives, or get over them?

These are the questions I think we need to be asking instead of thinking about the vague things.
 
Last edited:

Kitchy

Banned
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

what's the real issue here, rollin dayz?

are you feeling no guilt for shutting people down who have used you one too many times and feeling resentful and now you want to punish them or is this a call to the neptunian victim salvationists who will pound you on every turn if you say it is annoying to see people perpetuate victim-ality in their lives?

or is it something else?

you can help all the people you want, but there will always be 100 more standing in line.

maybe ask yourself if you are most pissed off because you couldn't help all of them or because they could give a rats@ss about being grateful for help?

some folks are just like that. they get mileage from it. on both sides.
 

Tessie

Banned
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

Speaking from many experiences in my life.

I have helped a few people for years, to overcome abuse, trauma and many other things. When they got over a particular situation, a particular person; they have gone from suffering to narcissism to victimhood again. It is the same patterns, same things. There is one constant in most situations: the person who calls themselves a victim.

I have approached people with humility and an open mind, and even though I personally invested in people; I never told them what to do, or judged them for the choices they made. They were free to make their own decisions, and it never had any bearing on me.

But I have seen these people take advantage of this victimhood, and take comfort in this state.

I'm not saying there is no such thing as a victim, but there are much fewer of them that are true victims than the ones that claim are. And they don't always stay in that perpetual state, or at least try to overcome it.

I think the question we need to ask is, who is really a "victim"? What is really the definition of a victim? Does everyone who say they are victims really victims?

Do victims really want to remain victims for the rest of their lives, or get over them?

These are the questions I think we need to be asking instead of thinking about the vague things.

Maybe trying to help people with abuse, trauma and many other things is where you are going wrong. Perhaps you are involved in co-dependent relations. People should take 100% of the responsibility for their wellbeing or the plan simply fails.
 

rollindays

Well-known member
what's the real issue here, rollin dayz?

are you feeling no guilt for shutting people down who have used you one too many times and feeling resentful and now you want to punish them or is this a call to the neptunian victim salvationists who will pound you on every turn if you say it is annoying to see people perpetuate victim-ality in their lives?

or is it something else?

you can help all the people you want, but there will always be 100 more standing in line.

maybe ask yourself if you are most pissed off because you couldn't help all of them or because they could give a rats@ss about being grateful for help?

some folks are just like that. they get mileage from it. on both sides.

It's not me about being pissed off. When i feel someone isn't worth it, they aren't part of my life, and I don't invest in them. No guilt. I have no regret for trying to help people, even if I find out they might not be worth it at the end. To be honest, it has got nothing to do on a personal level for me, but I am more interested in finding out the truth in a situation, and why people behave the way they do.
 
Last edited:

david starling

Well-known member
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

It's not me about being pissed off. When i feel someone isn't worth it, they aren't part of my life, and I don't invest in them. No guilt. I have no regret for trying to help people, even if I find out they might not be worth it at the end. To be honest, it has got nothing to do on a personal level for me, but I am more interested in finding out the truth in a situation, and why people behave the way they do.

They lack Motivation, which is a gift not everyone receives--not their fault. Just be grateful you received it, and feel sorry for those who haven't received it. But feeling sorry for them doesn't obligate you to let them take advantage of your compassionate nature.
 

Blue03Red

Account Closed
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

Thinking that I dont have guts to improve my life is what makes me fall into a victim. I inspire myself, then try to put something into action, only to find out later that I cant do it. Im just too idealistic. Because of that, I had developed this mindset, that no matter how hard I try. It'll never work. The thought itself is what steals my motivation to move forward. I fear that it will lead to failure again. It wraps me in a never ending bondage of victimhood. Even, if I dont want to, it happens anyways.
 
Last edited:

david starling

Well-known member
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

Thinking that I dont have guts to improve my life is what makes me fall into a victim. I inspire myself, then try to put something into action, only to find out later that I cant do it. Im just too idealistic. Because of that, I had developed this mindset, that no matter how hard I try. It'll never work. The thought itself is what steals my motivation to move forward. I fear that it will lead to failure again. It wraps me in a never ending bondage of victimhood. Even, if I dont want to, it happens anyways.

Have you been motivated to participate in some group-therapy? Might help talking with others with the same, or a similar problem. If you're addicted to failure, it might mean you're afraid succeeding will rob you of your sense of self.
 

Oddity

Well-known member
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

Rollindays, you were born under a lunar eclipse, and eclipse charts can make for a challenging life. The sun is the light of mind, and conjunct the south node, it's corrupted somehow. In your case, there could be a lot of problems with career, and with being the person you want to be seen as publically, since the sun rules the 10th house.

The moon is the habitual mind, and that gets all intensified because of its conjunction with the north node, but simply cannot express itself properly.

Again - eclipses often produce very challenging circumstances. Running from 12 to 6, it could be indicating isolation, health problems, even a state close to slavery or martrydom at times.

I'm not a psychological astrologer (ask anyone here!). But I would be careful in your case of whatI might not be seeing in myself, and what I am seeing in other people, as your perceptions about those things might be a little off, and driven by your fears. Could that be where the 'hatred' comes from?

I do wish you the best.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

I did. And somehow, it helped me take a little step forward. But my reply was just a share of thought as to why Im such a victim. Thankfully, in real life, Im trying my best to lift myself up and do something significant.

Otis Redding has a great song lyric, "I've got the Will, but I can't find my Way."
 

rollindays

Well-known member
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

Rollindays, you were born under a lunar eclipse, and eclipse charts can make for a challenging life. The sun is the light of mind, and conjunct the south node, it's corrupted somehow. In your case, there could be a lot of problems with career, and with being the person you want to be seen as publically, since the sun rules the 10th house.

The moon is the habitual mind, and that gets all intensified because of its conjunction with the north node, but simply cannot express itself properly.

Again - eclipses often produce very challenging circumstances. Running from 12 to 6, it could be indicating isolation, health problems, even a state close to slavery or martrydom at times.

I'm not a psychological astrologer (ask anyone here!). But I would be careful in your case of whatI might not be seeing in myself, and what I am seeing in other people, as your perceptions about those things might be a little off, and driven by your fears. Could that be where the 'hatred' comes from?

I do wish you the best.

Many of the things you have said are true, and I want to thank you for your analysis. Yes, life hasn't been easy; but really (this goes more with the "Free Will vs. Prediction" thread) I believe that the birth chart isn't set in stone: it is potential (to do good or bad). Knowledge/awareness is power.

I have had a pretty good professional career as of now (still 5-6 years in industry, I'm 29), still a long way to go; but yes, I am not the most likeable person to some people, and very likeable to others. I have been seeking isolation and alone time, but I realize that it is something I need to be working on (and work on). I am extremely extremely selective in the company I keep, but I do not seek isolation from those people.
 

rollindays

Well-known member
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

Hate is too strong an emotion. I cannot hate someone or something unless they are extremely evil by nature. But yes, I respect strength and do not respect weakness in people.

I think the North (Rahu) and South (Ketu) node make a lot of sense, they are conjunct (within 5 degrees I believe) to my Aries Moon and Libra Sun respectively.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

Hate is too strong an emotion. I cannot hate someone or something unless they are extremely evil by nature. But yes, I respect strength and do not respect weakness in people.

I think the North (Rahu) and South (Ketu) node make a lot of sense, they are conjunct (within 5 degrees I believe) to my Aries Moon and Libra Sun respectively.

You're in a position to lead by example--a real gift.
 

rollindays

Well-known member
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

I just had a very intense dream right now. Very very intense. I keep having such things every now and then.

So my dreams I believe connect many things from my subconscious.

A little background before the dream:

When I was growing up/in my early childhood (South Node in Libra); my cousins thought I was a nobody and didn't truly respect/understand me. They could say anything "funny"/insulting/"cool" about me and get away with it. I let it slide though due to my laid-back nature. I was a middle child, a quiet child. My grandmother used to pick on me, and say cruel things like "i was ugly/dirty" etc. I was born 10 days before her husband died, and somehow she blamed me for it.

Now to the dream itself:

My dream showed me in the present (North Node in Aries, which is conjunct my Moon). And showed extreme rage. I saw my cousins talk about things behind my back with this person (who in my actual life, I helped her for years to get over her abuse/trauma. She used to call me her brother then, but then she tried to manipulate and betray me), trying to trick/manipulate me thinking I wouldn't find out. I caught them, exposed them badly face-to-face. The anger and rage surprised them (they hadn't seen it in me before): they always saw me as an easy-to-pick, "doesn't care/let it slide" guy. They were scared and intimidated by me at the moment.

We were staying in the same house at the time, but they started avoiding me. I was all alone.

The cousins were not trying to be in the same room as me, neither their parents. They were all scared of me.

The end

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think one of the emotional wounds I have is that I have always wanted to have the love and respect of my cousins/relatives, for them to respect me; not to take me for granted (south node Libra), or to feel intimidated/scared by me (north node Aries).

I also have thoughts of my close relatives betraying me and going behind my back (Scorpio Rising/Mercury in the 12th house thoughts possibly?), and abandon me.

I have no tolerance for people trying to deceive me or go behind my back, ploys.

To be honest, I am trying to get past all this darkness in my past. My gf knows about this personally, and she has brought sunshine/light into my life, because I can talk to her about anything without being afraid she'll leave me, or abandon me.
 
Last edited:

ashriia

Well-known member
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

I think one of the emotional wounds I have is that I have always wanted to have the love and respect of my cousins/relatives, for them to respect me; not to take me for granted (south node Libra), or to feel intimidated/scared by me (north node Aries).

To be honest, I am trying to get past all this darkness in my past.

Are your nodes in the 3rd/9th house axis? If not what is going on in your 3rd house? is chiron there?

I have NN Libra, SN Aries. And saturn in my 3rd house. I don't care about my cousins/relatives or neighbors. I am pretty indifferent to them and have always been.

That's why I ask if you have your nodes there, otherwise I can't see the connection with cousins/relatives involving the nodes.
 

rollindays

Well-known member
Re: Is it a bad thing that despise the victimhood mentality in people?

Are your nodes in the 3rd/9th house axis? If not what is going on in your 3rd house? is chiron there?

I have NN Libra, SN Aries. And saturn in my 3rd house. I don't care about my cousins/relatives or neighbors. I am pretty indifferent to them and have always been.

That's why I ask if you have your nodes there, otherwise I can't see the connection with cousins/relatives involving the nodes.

Retrograde North Node in Aries in the 5th house.

Mars in Aquarius in the 3rd house.

Retrograde Chiron in Gemini in the 8th house.
 
Top