Understanding Leos and Leo energy.

Abby83

Well-known member
"Its not about what we go through, but its about how we handle what we go through."
So True,

Sun in a woman's chart also symbolises the men in her life. Conjunct Pluto would indicate a powerful, dominating man who takes control of your individuality.

Wow, I never thought of it that way but good perception. It's also my mother in my chart (10th ruler). And she was the driving force in my family but I trusted her. She does have Leo qualities that I like but she's also in the 12th house. We relate very much in regards to being victims. Sorry, I don't want to sidetrack this thread.
 
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Snuffy

Member
Osamenor,

Thank you for pointing out that T square that occurred when Saturn was last in Leo. I am looking at an upcoming long Saturn station opposite my early Leo sun and was dreading it because when Saturn conjuncted my Sun in 2005 there were two deaths in my family within three days,my daughter was hit by a truck out biking and suffered life changing injuries, and I spent the next few years overwhelmed with the responsibility for a demented parent I had had a very poor relationship with. All this happened just as I had hit a peak of creativity and led to my spending three years pretty much in limbo.

They always tell you with hard Saturn transits to look at what happened the last time you had one. But you remind me how important it is to look at the other transits that were going on.

Since all Leos are going to be dealing with that Saturn-Sun opposition over the next 2.5 year any thoughts you'd like to share about how it is likely to manifest this time around and how best to deal with it would be very helpful. My last Saturn opposition to an early Leo Sun also brought a creative peak but it was followed by a severe, painful year-long illness and the end of a marriage that really needed to end. But that was a relatively brief transit with no station. That upcoming station makes for many months of Saturn-Opposite-Sun. So the better I understand it, the better off I will be.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
I think the first step is to focus on that sun - vitality, rest, exercise, happiness, play. Maybe if I do that I won't hate on Leo's?
I agree. And I think that's really going to help your Libra-sun message, too. While Libra is about balance between self and other, that means self needs equal weight to other. Libra sun has one basic problem to solve: either being too focused on self, or too focused on other, giving too much self away. I think the second scenario is actually much more common, and if you're female, you get socialized to put others first no matter what sun sign you are, so it's if anything, even more of a problem.

I think what U say about differences between a leo sun and libra sun is what P***es me off. I mean balancing between my self and the other is really hard. I would much rather work on my self.
You need to work on your self in order to have that balance. I see you giving too much of your self away, putting others first way too often. Especially, it sounds like, in your marriage. (No accident that Libra is associated with marriage!)

Leo and Libra aren't really that different, at the end of the day. All sun signs need to work on themselves. It's really a question of what this self work is in reaction to. For Libra, it may very well be a need to strengthen and shore up self because they've put others first too much, too often, too long.

The twelfth house can also carry a tendency to be self sacrificing. But, paradoxically, it's very much about self. It's also the house where you get to let go of societal expectations--rather like a young medieval woman who insists on entering the convent, where she won't have to cater to a husband and kids and will get to focus on her own spiritual development, instead of marrying like her family wants her to.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Since all Leos are going to be dealing with that Saturn-Sun opposition over the next 2.5 year any thoughts you'd like to share about how it is likely to manifest this time around and how best to deal with it would be very helpful.

That would be off topic for this thread. It's purely predictive astrology, but this is still a Natal Astrology thread. Please start a new one if you want to discuss that. And I can't guarantee that I'll contribute. It's not something I've studied at any length or necessarily have time to right now.
 

Abby83

Well-known member
I agree. And I think that's really going to help your Libra-sun message, too. While Libra is about balance between self and other, that means self needs equal weight to other. Libra sun has one basic problem to solve: either being too focused on self, or too focused on other, giving too much self away. I think the second scenario is actually much more common, and if you're female, you get socialized to put others first no matter what sun sign you are, so it's if anything, even more of a problem.


You need to work on your self in order to have that balance. I see you giving too much of your self away, putting others first way too often. Especially, it sounds like, in your marriage. (No accident that Libra is associated with marriage!)

Leo and Libra aren't really that different, at the end of the day. All sun signs need to work on themselves. It's really a question of what this self work is in reaction to. For Libra, it may very well be a need to strengthen and shore up self because they've put others first too much, too often, too long.

The twelfth house can also carry a tendency to be self sacrificing. But, paradoxically, it's very much about self. It's also the house where you get to let go of societal expectations--rather like a young medieval woman who insists on entering the convent, where she won't have to cater to a husband and kids and will get to focus on her own spiritual development, instead of marrying like her family wants her to.

I am ALWAYS being discriminated if I don't put others first. That's the biggest issue. My husband (aries) cannot seem to see how selfish he is. I've done so much for him this week. He just responds with 'you're not supportive of me and you do nothing all day.' that is in fact the exact opposite to what's happening. And the same happened when I worked as a dental assistant many years ago. Eg: during lunch breaks we had to stay in and answer phone if it called. If I wanted to go out on my lunch break I became the scapegoat. In fact all my adult life, if I didn't BOW down to some ppl whether friend or husband or in laws or work colleague, I would be scapegoated. Ppl see me as someone to be used. That's why the balancing act is so difficult. In my heart I know what I deserve. But I find other ppl just don't see it. I don't deserve ppl being mean to me when I'm doing good. U understand? So I'm looking after everyone yet they all report back to me that I do nothing all day. I'm confused.

But I almost think I have a jealousy towards Leo's more so than aries. This jealousy is because they CAN look after their self without expectation of looking after others or sacrificing for others. I don't get jealous of Aries cos they have Martian qualities I'm not interested in. Leo can still be strong and be a woman. I feel that's something I am forbidden in this lifetme. Especially if embracing my sun always causes backlash. I don't want to sit in the corner like baby anymore. I want to spread my wings and be me and have ppl accept that
 
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Osamenor

Staff member
But I almost think I have a jealousy towards Leo's more so than aries. This jealousy is because they CAN look after their self without expectation of looking after others or sacrificing for others. I don't get jealous of Aries cos they have Martian qualities I'm not interested in. Leo can still be strong and be a woman. I feel that's something I am forbidden in this lifetme. Especially if embracing my sun always causes backlash. I don't want to sit in the corner like baby anymore. I want to spread my wings and be me and have ppl accept that

I can think of two women I know, off the top of my head, who are Leos and have similar problems to you: exactly what you describe. Bad marriages to selfish, disrespectful men, bending over backwards to make it work, and in at least one case, constantly feeling that she gets backlash if she tries to stand up for herself.

One of those women did leave her selfish, disrespectful husband, spent several years as a single mother fighting a drawn out custody battle, and now has a much better husband and interesting adult children.

What causes backlash is you acting in a way contrary to others' expectations. It sounds like you respond to that backlash by retreating. As it is, you have people trained to see you as the self sacrificing, non-assertive person who will help them no matter how badly they treat you. Whenever you start to change and assert yourself more, people in your life react by saying, "No, don't change!" and you acquiesce and stop changing. Which makes the same thing happen again each time you get fed up and decide to assert yourself.

But what if you didn't back down? What if you responded to your husband's insults and tantrums with, "You're right, Husband, I'm a b___ who doesn't support you. I won't (fix your dinner, clean up your mess, drive you to work, go to your family event, etc.)"? What if you waited out the ensuing bigger tantrum and stood your ground? (And called the police if the tantrum escalated into violence.)

If you can imagine being more assertive, you can do it. What's missing is the follow through.

Your current situation isn't something you're fated to because of your sun sign. It isn't even a situation that Leo or Aries people are immune to (though they might find such a situation even more frustrating than you do, if they are in it). It may be that your Libran desire for harmony has turned into "keep the peace at all costs," which makes you do what you do--but that's a pitfall of Libra, not its fate. The solution is to swing the balance of the scales back in favor of yourself. Even if that means you have to seriously fight to do it.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
Well said, Osamenor. Summed up beautifully!!

Not everything in life should be examined through the filter of astrology. Sometimes all that is required is honesty, followed through with common sense. Waiting for/expecting others to change is pointless. If something in your life isn't working, then you have to be the one to change ... and to mean it.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
I think some impish housewives (or maybe home economists) totaled up a bill of what it would cost to hire someone to do the work of a home-maker.

1. Child care
2. House cleaner
3. Caterer or restaurant meals
4. taxi or chauffeur service
5. commercial laundry
6. concierge/social secretary service.

They figured out what each of these would cost an average husband per year if he had to pay for them.

Libra is the consummate diplomat, but it does have a keen sense of fairness with those scales of justice.
 

Abby83

Well-known member
I can think of two women I know, off the top of my head, who are Leos and have similar problems to you: exactly what you describe. Bad marriages to selfish, disrespectful men, bending over backwards to make it work, and in at least one case, constantly feeling that she gets backlash if she tries to stand up for herself.

One of those women did leave her selfish, disrespectful husband, spent several years as a single mother fighting a drawn out custody battle, and now has a much better husband and interesting adult children.

What causes backlash is you acting in a way contrary to others' expectations. It sounds like you respond to that backlash by retreating. As it is, you have people trained to see you as the self sacrificing, non-assertive person who will help them no matter how badly they treat you. Whenever you start to change and assert yourself more, people in your life react by saying, "No, don't change!" and you acquiesce and stop changing. Which makes the same thing happen again each time you get fed up and decide to assert yourself.

But what if you didn't back down? What if you responded to your husband's insults and tantrums with, "You're right, Husband, I'm a b___ who doesn't support you. I won't (fix your dinner, clean up your mess, drive you to work, go to your family event, etc.)"? What if you waited out the ensuing bigger tantrum and stood your ground? (And called the police if the tantrum escalated into violence.)

If you can imagine being more assertive, you can do it. What's missing is the follow through.

Your current situation isn't something you're fated to because of your sun sign. It isn't even a situation that Leo or Aries people are immune to (though they might find such a situation even more frustrating than you do, if they are in it). It may be that your Libran desire for harmony has turned into "keep the peace at all costs," which makes you do what you do--but that's a pitfall of Libra, not its fate. The solution is to swing the balance of the scales back in favor of yourself. Even if that means you have to seriously fight to do it.

Well thank you cos I reeeeaaaallllyyy needed to hear that. Phew. Ahhh. My lord. You are right. 100 percent right. I've made myself there for ppl all the time, then when I can't they get so angry and threaten me and it's so uncomfortable for me I retreat. I'm too weak to stand my ground. I don't like fighting. I have to learn ways to not fight and keep going. But I find i get so many threats to keep me of service I'm just not skilled at stopping it. I'll try my best to follow through like you've adviced. That's the hardest part.
 

Abby83

Well-known member
I think some impish housewives (or maybe home economists) totaled up a bill of what it would cost to hire someone to do the work of a home-maker.

1. Child care
2. House cleaner
3. Caterer or restaurant meals
4. taxi or chauffeur service
5. commercial laundry
6. concierge/social secretary service.

They figured out what each of these would cost an average husband per year if he had to pay for them.

Libra is the consummate diplomat, but it does have a keen sense of fairness with those scales of justice.

This is true.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Well thank you cos I reeeeaaaallllyyy needed to hear that. Phew. Ahhh. My lord. You are right. 100 percent right. I've made myself there for ppl all the time, then when I can't they get so angry and threaten me and it's so uncomfortable for me I retreat. I'm too weak to stand my ground. I don't like fighting. I have to learn ways to not fight and keep going. But I find i get so many threats to keep me of service I'm just not skilled at stopping it. I'll try my best to follow through like you've adviced. That's the hardest part.

Sounds more like, if you have to learn anything, it's how to fight despite not liking it. This sounds like a disowned Mars to me.

Disown any planet, and you draw people into your life who reflect it at you in the worst possible way. Especially if your disowned planet is Mars (or Pluto).

If the reason why you're not following through is because it's so uncomfortable, would it be easier if you had people who supported your standing up for yourself? If your family and friends are not supportive of that, you would have to find them elsewhere. Wonder if there's a support group for women with selfish husbands.
 

Abby83

Well-known member
Sounds more like, if you have to learn anything, it's how to fight despite not liking it. This sounds like a disowned Mars to me.

Disown any planet, and you draw people into your life who reflect it at you in the worst possible way. Especially if your disowned planet is Mars (or Pluto).

If the reason why you're not following through is because it's so uncomfortable, would it be easier if you had people who supported your standing up for yourself? If your family and friends are not supportive of that, you would have to find them elsewhere. Wonder if there's a support group for women with selfish husbands.

Hahaha 😂😁 could you imagine a support group for selfish husbands? Lol. I'm already part of a narcissist support group. There's not much you can do.

According to other ppl I used to be Martian, but over the last 8 years I met my match with the in laws and no support and now I have adrenal fatigue. I'm learning to win a different way. And that is through emotional happiness behind the scenes. Narcissists eliminate your support base successfully as a form of control, so I can't fight face to face, it doesn't work. Too many ppl involved that the narcissist has groomed long before I even came along. Narcissists spend every second of most hrs of the day and night making sure they have you cornered. Inherently positive ppl like me do not have the ability to stop that. They go after your friends and family who then run away and you're left with no one. Narcissists are that difficult that your support base runs away.
 
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Abby83

Well-known member
So I'm back on here to write that some of the Leo's on here may have been right about their statements about me. Particularly the fact that my own issues with my sun has made me resentful of Leo's.

Well today I did a tarot asking what I need to embrace more in my life to prevent the troubles I've experienced with those who have narcissistic personality disorder and psychopaths. The advice I got was to embrace qualities of sun in leo. I kid you not. Sun in Leo. There it is. The slap in my face. I'm gonna try this. I'm gonna try really hard.
 

The19thLaw

Well-known member
Grudge holding nature of Leos is underrated but I have to say they are pretty strategic compared to other signs. Not on the same level as a Libra placement (hence the saturn exalt) or earth signs but far more strategic than what modern astrologers portray Scorpio to be.

Sometimes I read stuff about Scorpios and vengefulness and wonder if it is really Leos who are like that.
 

waybread

Well-known member
19th Law, when are you going to take off the training wheels of simplistic sun-sign astrology? Your continuing exclusive emphasis on sun signs is a lot of the reason why you're having trouble interpreting actual human beings.
 

Abby83

Well-known member
19th Law, when are you going to take off the training wheels of simplistic sun-sign astrology? Your continuing exclusive emphasis on sun signs is a lot of the reason why you're having trouble interpreting actual human beings.

But... It is true that star signs have their own traits.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Sun signs have their own traits, but if we leave it at that, we've fundamentally got the equivalent of a pop magazine column, or Linda Goodman's Sun Signs.

If the 19th Law knows a sun Leo who seems to be vindictive-- which is not a characteristic trait of a Leo sun-- astrologers don't leave it at that, thinking that astrology got it wrong. We look to see what else is going on in said Leo's horoscope.

Maybe it's the moon or a stellium in Scorpio square sun, for example; or a troubled Mars or Pluto.

There just aren't any Astrology Lite shortcuts to an astrological character analysis, no matter how badly he wants there to be or believes that there should be.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Actually the Mesopotamians who invented astrology started out with very different constellations than the ones we use now; and they used constellations well off the ecliptic. They developed the nature of their gods long before assigning these gods to heavenly bodies. Today tropical astrologers use signs that no longer overlap well with the constellations for which they were named. Even sidereal signs over lap poorly with constellations that are significantly bigger or smaller than 30 degrees. See: Nicholas Campion's A History of Western Astrology, Gavin White's Babylonian Star Lore and Bernadette Brady's YouTube lectures on what she calls "visual astrology."

Archaeologists think that decorations on the walls of the caves of Lascaux depict the constellation Taurus, the Pleiades, and other fixed stars-- during the Paleolithic. There was no astrology back then. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/871930.stm
 
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