Sidereal Astrology

Sorry... maybe some of you will throw me rocks (I sure hope not!! ) I was shocked to hear in my astronomy class that the signs shifted somewhere in the course of time, so cancer becomes gemini and so on.
But... I wonder if any of you ever tried to go back a sign in your wheel... Gemini, Pisces rising COULD fit me, at a certain extent! (Except for the Sag MC)

I find that very strange... and I wanted anyone to shed some light on the "Sidereal" debate! Any point of view is appreciated!

Puzzled, Eklipse.

Hi Eklipse,

I have looked a little into the Siderial thing. I also had 2 charts done by Indian guys in India in the late '80's.
They take 23 degrees off everything I think.
It's because of the optical illusion our atmosphere creates in relation to the Planets and Zodiac belt. It's not somethiing I can relate to but it is valid for the Jyotishis.
However, having said that...neither of the readings I got made any sense whatsoever to me.
It seems to work for them though.

Come to think of it, I don't think they do take 23 degrees off everything, just the Planets.
But that's a bit strange to me...if the distortion the atmosphere creates alters the relative postion of the Planets, it must surely distort the Zodiac belt too?
I mean, if the atmosphere is the "lens" through which everything "out there" is being filtered, ie. at 23 degrees. then the Planets would stay in the same relative signs, because "the whole thing" would be distorted to us, but not separated or distorted from anything, "out there".
Make sense?

That all seems to be "theory", whereas although the "Rertograde/Direct" phenomenon is an "illusion", it is still a "visual illusion" as far as our relative perception is concerned.
And from that point of view, must, and does have an effect.

There are (or were) 72 systems of Astrology in India...
Take your pick!
It seems a bit fatalistic to me. Indian society does not have the same freedoms we have. They are born into a "cast" and thats that. So from that point of view, Astrology is a pretty "fixed" science to them, coz it's relative to that society structure.

(I believe we are ALL free, at least to a certain extent, (within "our frame", or Chart) but it's a choice, and a state of mind, not an action, or a position in society. (relative to a "cast")
We are born to work out "Unity", not proliferate "distinctions".
That kind of "system" works well for the "higher casts", because it keeps "some people" always at the "beck and call".
You never run out of servants when some people are bred to believe that is what they were bred to be...and that belief is passed proudly on.
I guess we all have that kind of dynamic at play somehow, just that we don't see that ultimately, our "station in life" is relative to our beliefs about what we feel we are worthy of... )

Add to that, Uaranus, Neptune, and Pluto are generally excluded from the chart... "what to do?"
I know, as you do, those planets have quite a major (if not the most major) effect on us as spiritual beings, and our evolution as a consequence.

I wouldn't be toooooo confused Eklipse. If it works for you, take it and run with it.
If it doesn't, no problem, that doesn't invalidate anything you, or they, are experiencing through "Western", or "Siderial" Astrology.

Truth is relative my friend...

ps. No rocks at you, just a clear stream of water flowing over them, and your reflection in it

Hum! On a second look, I think I'll stick to traditionnal astrology... MC in Sag? Not a chance. I was probably overexcited by seeing all those differences in my good old chart.
I think fatalism can be releasing in some ways, if it helps you to accept both good and bad things... But the cast system is, to me, awful... I'm a socialist in my soul ^___^

I'll keep exploring the domain - or the even stranger "heliocentric astrology"... The truth is eternally changing, the only bad thing you can do is close your mind and soul.

Thanks for that reply, I love fresh food for thoughts!

I don't use sidereal much, but I use it for galactic astrology, because I need to look at all charts in galactic astrology (Heliocentric, tropical, sidereal, draconic, declinational) (For the declinational one, check Dr Farr's thread about fixed star's declinations)

Humanitarian said:

I don't use sidereal much, but I use it for galactic astrology, because I need to look at all charts in galactic astrology (Heliocentric, tropical, sidereal, draconic, declinational) (For the declinational one, check Dr Farr's thread about fixed star's declinations)

Click to expand...

you are age fourteen & very inexperienced but fortunately with plenty time to learn

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Eklipse said:

Hum! On a second look, I think I'll stick to traditionnal astrology... MC in Sag? Not a chance. I was probably overexcited by seeing all those differences in my good old chart. I think fatalism can be releasing in some ways, if it helps you to accept both good and bad things... But the cast system is, to me, awful... I'm a socialist in my soul ^___^ I'll keep exploring the domain - or the even stranger "heliocentric astrology"... The truth is eternally changing, the only bad thing you can do is close your mind and soul. Thanks for that reply, I love fresh food for thoughts!

Click to expand...

VIDEO ANIMATION EXPLANATION OF TROPICAL & SIDEREAL PERSPECTIVE
WITH DESCRIPTIVE NARRATIVE

is viewable at

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris
1. The gods send signs to all nations, but they are not interpret the same for the different lands,
for one they signify hot weather, for another they signify cold weather,
and for third they signify temperate weather.

2. In the same way, the like-principles of rising times and daylight
become less discernible and causative in the equatorial zones.

3. Therefore another celestial influence is causative for nativities,
rather than the terrestrial effect of weather.
Otherwise, there would be no domicile, no exaltation
and no depression for the equatorial lands.

4. The rationale of the sidereal zodiac is compatible with this hypothesis,
the rationale of the tropical zodiac is not.



for beginners unfamiliar with Sidereal Astrology
Vedic astrology is Sidereal
however there are also Western Sidereal Astrologers as well
for example KENNETH BOWSER is a Western Sidereal Astrologer
at https://www.westernsiderealastrology.com/
and
Jim Eshelman https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?t=3

MOON travels each SIGN once a month aka "...moonth..."
but is not always in the same sign SIDEREALLY as Tropical
because although all Astrologers – are commenting on and making predictions
regarding THE IDENTICAL MOON in the skies
interestingly a computer generated Tropical Chart
ALWAYS differs by DEGREE occuppied by the Moon
from Sidereal DEGREE occupied by the Moon
and sometimes differs by sign as well

Sidereal location of Moon may be confirmed BY VISUAL observation of local skies
Notice there is a minimum difference of 20°
up to a maximum of approximately 24°
between Tropical and SIDEREAL MEASUREMENT
i.e.
ANY planet at 0° OF any Tropical SIGN is SIDEREALLY between approximately 6° - 10°
to a maximum 24° of the PREVIOUS SIGN
dependent on the ayanamsha

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If you want to check the Sidereal degree of the planets of a moment, then you need to find the Sidereal Vernal Point on astro.com, then calculate the differences from 0°00'00" Aries and the degree, minutes, seconds of the Sidereal Vernal Point, then you either add (if the Sidereal Vernal Point is in a degree after 0° Aries and before 0° Libra, the Northern half from the POV of the Northern hemisphere) or subtract (if the Sidereal Vernal Point is in a degree after 0° Libra and before 0° Aries, the Southern half from the POV of the Northern Hemisphere), then subtract the tropical degrees of every planet to the difference between Sidereal Vernal Point and Tropical Vernal Point (0° Aries) in degrees, minutes, seconds
Notes: Use the degree within a 360-degree scheme, not a 30-degree scheme per sign, because the latter leads to calculation difficulties and confusion for yourself when either subtracting or adding from tropical to sidereal (except when the Sidereal Vernal Point was exactly conjuncting the Tropical Vernal Point at 0° Aries)

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This video explains the concept of Kundli aka Birth Chart
and how it is derived from the actual positions of the planets in the heavens
- with the help of animation gives insight into why the Kundli aka Birth chart
are drawn the way they are drawn.


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