Astrology, Mother of Science

blacksun?

blacksun?

Well-known member
Jupiter-Venus bless you

I am a philosopher and a scientist, who happens to have become, also, an astrologer. I just observed too much to disregard it. I now consider it a completely hard science, for which the terms are yet in development, and have been for at least five thousand years, but likely more than that.

I do a small youtube series called philosophy77, a lowbrow venue to put out my idea before the time is ripe to assemble the in a written thesis so as to put forth the philosophical idea behind them, in a proper manner. Saturn is not quite satisfied, to put it in astrological terms.

In the process of debating online, which I consider to be more useful after the basics have been learned, than listening to college professors go on about speculative sciences such as string theory, I was prompted to make a direct statement about the scientific merit and rank of astrology.

As I posed it, I felt the time was ripe to spread out a bit, and to carefully introduce my ideas to a public acquainted with the facts of astrology. This site is my main go to place for either learning or teaching about astrology secondarily, that is apart from reading charts and extracting truths from specific aspects and positions I encounter along the way, either in myself, or the charts of the ones who give me their trust.

Astrology is a matter of trust, not only in facts, but also in ones own quality as an astrology and predominantly as a human, An accurate astrology reading done by an indifferent or cruel person can break a persons will, an optimistic reading that is not accurate can temporarily separate a persons consciousness from his chart like a drug, and an accurate optimistic reading can push a person to become himself on a higher level of self-valuing and world-valuing.

A very simple video it is for all such grandiose words. But then science is not about spectacle, except that it is wonder itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHw07uKvnqk


I sincerely hope that I will be able to give the field of astrology a boost so as for it to me taken more seriously by the people that can benefit of it.


Jupiter-Venus bless all

Blacksun?/
Fixed Cross

http://beforethelight.forumotion.com
 
conspiracy theorist

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
The question mark in your name is tripping me out

An accurate astrology reading done by an indifferent or cruel person can break a persons will
Click to expand...

Could you explain this? If the reading is accurate, why does the character of the astrologer matter? What if it's a case where this same indifferent/cruel person uses palatable language; would it still do so much damage as to "break a person's will"?
 
D

david starling

Well-known member
conspiracy theorist said:
The question mark in your name is tripping me out



Could you explain this? If the reading is accurate, why does the character of the astrologer matter? What if it's a case where this same indifferent/cruel person uses palatable language; would it still do so much damage as to "break a person's will"?
Click to expand...

If the basic message is "better luck next life", instead of "considering what a difficult Chart you have, you're doing remarkably well, and here's something you can work on", that harsh, hopeless assessment could be discouraging, to say the least. Instead of "you're doomed, and here's why", "These are the lemons, here's a way to make some lemonade". I don't know of any practicing Astrologer who takes satisfaction in delivering a totally grim, fatalistic verdict.
Yeah, is that username referring to Black-Sun Niburu, which some believe is interacting with our Solar-system? :w00t:
 
conspiracy theorist

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
david starling said:
If the basic message is "better luck next life", instead of "considering what a difficult Chart you have, you're doing remarkably well, and here's something you can work on", that harsh, hopeless assessment could be discouraging, to say the least. Instead of "you're doomed, and here's why", "These are the lemons, here's a way to make some lemonade". I don't know of any practicing Astrologer who takes satisfaction in delivering a totally grim, fatalistic verdict.
Click to expand...

Even though I have the desire to press on, I'll assume that this is what he meant and move on with my life.
 
blacksun?

blacksun?

Well-known member
What bothers me most about non-astrologers, especially when they are astrophysicists, is that they refuse astrology purely on the ground of not wanting the world to be as badass as it is. They dont want their mind to be as puny as it stands in relation to the magnitude of order that is implied by astrology.

If one does not observe the geocentric relations of the orbits, then one misses vast geometrical clues as to the way the solar system came about. But through the primacy of valuing over mass, it has been made abundantly clear that relations between planets in orbit around a star can not be anything but entirely interrelated on all significant levels. Not just on a magnetic level but rather on the level of Quality itself.

The world is simply far too good for what goes for "life" or "consciousness" these days.

david starling said:
Talk about a "Thinker"! Mind posting your Chart, or at least describing it? :biggrin:
Click to expand...

:bandit:

1dl6nz.jpg
 
blacksun?

blacksun?

Well-known member
conspiracy theorist said:
The question mark in your name is tripping me out



Could you explain this? If the reading is accurate, why does the character of the astrologer matter? What if it's a case where this same indifferent/cruel person uses palatable language; would it still do so much damage as to "break a person's will"?
Click to expand...

What Starling said. I can add a bit of anger to it, as it does make me very angry, how for example certain Vedic astrologers go around throwing deathpredictions in their clients faces. It's just downright evil, if there is such a thing.

In neutral definitions, I distinguish the difference between indicating the potential and indicating limits.

It's not only morally idiotic to go for the latter; logically it is even more deranged. As any astrologer has to axiomatically know that he has/is a particular chart, and thus represents a deeply, fundamentally limited perspective on the chart he gets before him, and can thus obviously not know all the pathways that may lead out of a certain predicament he perceives as "bad". Ive personally found some of my best aspects to be the ones illest advertised online. In general, oppositions are absolutely awesome things. Though Saturn-Sun is hard, I'll admit.

It is the astrologers privilege to be given the power to see into a soul, and the opportunity to indicate the treasure or path that his particular skillset allows him to perceive and formulate. Just randomly throwing interpretations of harsh aspects before a person is like setting off bombs randomly int he middle of a city just because "it's science".



To identify a particular pain in planetary form is one of the most remedial acts there are. To bluntly posit an isolated metaphysical problem in the persons apprehension of his self is really damaging though. Religions that moralize people into sheep work in the same way, but with more general aspects; it is like saying to people that they all have a debilitated moon, and need to repent for that. Pretty soon their moon is debilitated, as a chart of a person that comes to a psychological healer tends to offer as many possibilities for derangement as for elevation.

I will say this; if one is in a lifelong conflict with another person, it can be highly liberating to do a judgmental reading of the other persons chart. While keeping that person in the 'dark', naturally.
 
Last edited:
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Science Today

RICHARD FEYNMAN - Physicist - discusses how scientists would look for a new law :smile:


'....In general, we look for a new law by the following process.
First, we guess it (audience laughter), no, don’t laugh, that’s the truth.
Then we compute the consequences of the guess, to see what, if this is right,
if this law we guess is right, to see what it would imply
and then we compare the computation results to nature
or we say compare to experiment or experience,
compare it directly with observations to see if it works...'

If it disagrees with experiment, it’s WRONG.
In that simple statement is the key to science.
It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is,
it doesn’t matter how smart you are who made the guess,
or what his name is… If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong.
That’s all there is to it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KmimDq4cSU
 
D

david starling

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
Science Today

RICHARD FEYNMAN - Physicist - discusses how scientists would look for a new law :smile:


'....In general, we look for a new law by the following process.
First, we guess it (audience laughter), no, don’t laugh, that’s the truth.
Then we compute the consequences of the guess, to see what, if this is right,
if this law we guess is right, to see what it would imply
and then we compare the computation results to nature
or we say compare to experiment or experience,
compare it directly with observations to see if it works...'

If it disagrees with experiment, it’s WRONG.
In that simple statement is the key to science.
It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is,
it doesn’t matter how smart you are who made the guess,
or what his name is… If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong.
That’s all there is to it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KmimDq4cSU
Click to expand...

"....compare it directly with observations to see if it works"--is problematic for Astrology, because what works for one may not work for others. "Hard" science is limited to the Material-realm, where there's no question as to whether or not "it works".
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
david starling said:

"....compare it directly with observations to see if it works"
--is problematic for Astrology, because what works for one may not work for others.
"Hard" science is limited to the Material-realm, where there's no question as to whether or not "it works".
Click to expand...
Individual opinions on what constitutes "a definition of science" obviously vary :smile:
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
This thread may be of interest.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8963

I don't think astrology meets the criteria of science, but this doesn't mean it lacks value. Many fields are empirical and systematic without being sciences. Nobody finds fault with history because it isn't a science.

What sort of science is your career? In what kind of setting do you practice it?
 
blacksun?

blacksun?

Well-known member
Glad you like it ;)
I can send you my birth data in a pm if you like.

Ok so I started addressing a long time study object, the Tree of Life.
My approach is entirely unmystical, unreligious, I see it is a logical model, a tool to induce metaphysical synthesis. Perhaps some of you may take away something from it. I think the second and the last are the most objectively enjoyable.

Introduction and the veils of negative existence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06ZfESt3Bpk

Kether
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgOxRSYGWFo

Chokmah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em-hmbYgJeo

Binah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCKK5hlXTrc

Daath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzC1rJjZ3_c

[edited to insert titles]
 
Last edited:
D

david starling

Well-known member
What interests me most about the Tree of Life is the numerological conversion of 10 at the bottom, which is (as I have it) Capricorn's #, into 1 at the top (the Aries #): Numerologically when you reach double digits you add them, so 10 converts to 1 (1+0=1), and the downward cycle commences at #1 Aries, through the #s of the first ten Signs, and then the conversion 1+0=1 means it's back to the top, in a repeating loop. So, Capricorn is a numerologically complex Sign, as are Aquarius and Pisces, due to their double-digit #s. But 11 and 12 aren't included in the base-ten Tree, so Signs #11 & #12 are represented by their converted #s, (1+1)=2, and (1+2)=3, which places Aquarius at "Wisdom" (along with 2nd Sign Taurus), and places Pisces at "Understanding" (along with 3rd Sign Gemini). Does this point of view resonate with your studies at all? :unsure:
[In the physical sense, I see the 10 to 1 conversion as representative of producing energy from matter (Earth-sign into Fire-sign) in general, but explosives in particular.]
 
Last edited:
blacksun?

blacksun?

Well-known member
I think what happens with both paradigms is a bit different. I think the 'magic' (formative workings) of the numerical laws,
which I certainly accept as real, world-forming regularities, is applied differently in different ways. Namely as follows: The tree of life is fundamentally a linear pattern, where it designates a definitive motion from the abstract to the manifest. Yes, there are different oiverlays of tree upon tree, but that does not eliminate the down and upward motion, and the fact that the tree ends up in a single point, be it at the top, or at the bottom, or in the middle.
So to that end, the number 10 is convenient. It is an 'aggressive' number, made out of two fives, very sharp dynamic forms.
The structure of the tree amounts in three threes plus one, where the axion 1=3 applies, so that 9 comes to equal 1 in whats knnown as the Kingdom.
I hope this makes a bit of sense, its always hard to describe metaphysical logics in the limited logic of grammar.
Anyway, the second logic is the Zodiac, which is circular.
It is a more complete logic, it holds itself in motion, it has no linear ranking inside of it, rather it has the two interwoven systems of 3 and 4, amounting in 12 signs and houses, 3 conditions and 4 elements, and these two different patterns, where 3 is the smooth unity used also in the Tree for its conductive power, and 4 is the... jagged, sharp edged form that creates the 3 Crosses, these eternal, 'stuck' patterns of the Zodiac that provide squares and oppositions, which is where the Zodiac really comes into its right, as far as Ive experienced.
In the end though indeed 12 is 3, and I would definitely agree that Gemini is appropriate as a sign to indicate the sort of dsynamics that define the Tree, which is defined by that numbers laws. Gemini after all is the sign of duality, and of dynamic transmutation, which is at the root of the magic of the Tree.

The Tree of life has the Zodiac integrated in itself on its own terms (I would not allow for the claim that the Zodiac, which is a supreme signifier and can tbe conditioned to another, is wholly understood in its terms, but it helps to understand the Tree) by attributing the signs to different paths between the spheres, Ill go into that when I finish the videos about the individual Sephirot.


Im interested to hear about this sense of explosives. Im not an expert yet on how the elements interact, Ive actually only recently started to draw pentagrams to summon them. Remarkable.
 
blacksun?

blacksun?

Well-known member
In the system of the Tree of Life, the sign Capricorn is attributed to the path between Hod (8, Mercury) and Tipharet (6, Sun), and represented with Tarot Trump 15, the Devil.

So you can see there is a lot of stuff to figure out numerically, the Hebrews as well as Aleister Crowley are totally mad about that, gematria, but I like to keep such elemental studies as simple as possible - though indeed not simpler.
 
blacksun?

blacksun?

Well-known member
None of this is absolute, I'm relaying my own ongoing understanding, but at this point I'd feel okay to make this claim:

The number 12, which is the geometrical paradise, completely flexible and rounded, is a good number to 'hold' being.
The number 10 is more appropriate to propel it.

The Zodiac gives us different types of humans, none of which is superior to another on the whole. The Tree gives us different ranks of consciousness, all of which are superior and/or inferior to others.

One person can embody the whole Tree in a state of integrated consciousness, but no person can embody the entire Zodiac.

Here's a hidden logic to the numbers I once found, can you figure it out?

123456789
246813579
369369369
483726159
516273849
639639639
753186429
876543219
999999999
 
D

david starling

Well-known member
blacksun? said:
None of this is absolute, I'm relaying my own ongoing understanding, but at this point I'd feel okay to make this claim:

The number 12, which is the geometrical paradise, completely flexible and rounded, is a good number to 'hold' being.
The number 10 is more appropriate to propel it.

The Zodiac gives us different types of humans, none of which is superior to another on the whole. The Tree gives us different ranks of consciousness, all of which are superior and/or inferior to others.

One person can embody the whole Tree in a state of integrated consciousness, but no person can embody the entire Zodiac.

Here's a hidden logic to the numbers I once found, can you figure it out?

123456789
246813579
369369369
483726159
516273849
639639639
753186429
876543219
999999999
Click to expand...

Not at the moment.:lol: Can you explain it?
I'm using the Tropical, numbered Zodiac as my master template, and haven't incorporated the complexities of the Tree's traditional, mystical significance. I do do prefer simpler, more direct connections. Btw, have you looked at the "Daath" addition to the Tree, associated with :uranus: ?
 
Top