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  #1  
Unread 11-03-2015, 04:55 PM
kissthesky kissthesky is offline
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Question Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Me and my boyfriend have been fighting for the past few months. This month he didn't come home twice after partying all night. It's made me start to question things. We've been together for 5 years. Could he be cheating on me? We went to couples counseling for the first time 2 weeks ago I thought things were going good until he didn't come home on Halloween night So I left him, and told him "We're through" then went to my mothers house. But now I'm sad because I want to be with him. I love him. Confused and hurt. I don't want to move out of our apartment together. Please help!
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  #2  
Unread 11-03-2015, 05:53 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

I can see you are upset, as you/Jupiter are in your detriment, and I am sorry for that. Moon, as your secondary significator, separates from a square to the Sun, reflecting the recent difficulties between the two of you that you describe.

But I do think he may still have feelings for you based on reception from him to you: he receives you both by dignity and exaltation. And I think he is also your friend, as well, as his significator is in your 11th house of friendship. Also, importantly, Mercury and Jupiter do apply to a sextile, which is encouraging, affording you opportunity to resolve the matter.

I suppose my only concern is that Moon appears to be totally void of course. Given the amount of time it will take for your significators, Merc and Jup, to perfect their aspect, I think this VOC Moon may point to there not being much you can do right now. That you may need to wait, and perhaps kindly and carefully try to find out what is troubling him? I do see the potential for things to work out, but clearly there is lots to be sorted out, based on your description of his behavior and all the fighting between you.
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  #3  
Unread 11-03-2015, 10:58 PM
kissthesky kissthesky is offline
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

How long do you think it will take?

Mercury to Sextile Jupiter?
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Unread 11-03-2015, 11:06 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kissthesky View Post
Me and my boyfriend have been fighting for the past few months. This month he didn't come home twice after partying all night. It's made me start to question things. We've been together for 5 years. Could he be cheating on me? We went to couples counseling for the first time 2 weeks ago I thought things were going good until he didn't come home on Halloween night So I left him, and told him "We're through" then went to my mothers house. But now I'm sad because I want to be with him. I love him. Confused and hurt. I don't want to move out of our apartment together. Please help!
I'm less hopeful than Ilene. I'm not seeing this going anywhere.

You are Jupiter (as person), Venus (as woman), Moon (as your emotions). He is Mercury ( as person) and Sun (as a man). I look at receptions differently and can see you are more into him and he is not. Mercury has just changed signs, and the reception has changed. Whilst in the previous sign there was reception between Mercury and Venus (you as a woman), now Mercury has entered fall and detriment of Moon and Venus. This means he views you in negative light.

Your are strongly into him, Jupiter exalts Mercury, Venus as well, Moon as your emotions is in sign of Sun (him as a man). You describe yourself in love with him still and chart confirms this in a very strong way. Unfortunately, I don't see reception from him.

I'm more concerned with mutual reception between Mercury and Mars. Mercury is also at his 5th house, it could mean he is all about fun and parties and it could also mean he has met other people. Mercury is combust or about to, so no amount of tears from you may help.

Moon is also Void and its feral. So nothing will change, If you go back with him, he will remain the way he has been, partying away through the night. I'm sorry, I'm not seeing anything good here.
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Unread 11-03-2015, 11:40 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kissthesky View Post
How long do you think it will take?

Mercury to Sextile Jupiter?
I am not particularly experienced is timing, so I am not much help there.

As rafaella commented, we do not interpret reception the same way. I would like to stand by my delineation as it is to compare to the outcome. But I would also strongly urge you to pay great heed to her delineation because she is very skillful, much more experienced that I, and also because there is greater overall cohesion in the way she sees matters than what I can see.

I am wishing you the best.
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Unread 11-04-2015, 12:55 AM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
I am not particularly experienced is timing, so I am not much help there.

As rafaella commented, we do not interpret reception the same way. I would like to stand by my delineation as it is to compare to the outcome. But I would also strongly urge you to pay great heed to her delineation because she is very skillful, much more experienced that I, and also because there is greater overall cohesion in the way she sees matters than what I can see.

I am wishing you the best.
thanks Ilene! I think we both noticed Void Moon so any change will be very difficult in this situation. Of course querent can go back to him, but if she is hoping for things to change and him to go back to the way he was before, it is quite unlikely. Mercury is just not in state to see reason or really care when its combusted.

Please update Kissthesky!
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Unread 11-04-2015, 01:29 AM
kissthesky kissthesky is offline
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Well my dilemma right now is that our home lease ends in March. So if I move out we'll have to break our lease. I was laid off from my job, last month so I'm lacking money at the moment. But I know that if I go back home and stay with him it will not work out. He will not change. I don't understand why he suddenly has this urgency to want to CONSTANTLY party by staying out all night, and disrespect our relationship.

I respect myself and don't want to be around him, to see him coming in and out of my home. So I'm trying to decide if I should stay, because I'm in love (want it to work) or leave him find my own place (to let him party do whatever he needs to do) so that I wont have to be present. I'm am just afraid he will meet another women and fall in love.

Either way, I guess if we're supposed to be together in the end we will.
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Unread 11-04-2015, 04:38 PM
kissthesky kissthesky is offline
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Thank you both Rafella and IleneK.

@Tikana you seem to be an expert here also. Could you tell us how you'd predict the outcome?
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Unread 11-04-2015, 04:56 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

I just need to figure out if I should stay, to fight and holding on to our love. To try to make it work, (fix it if it's possible) or let it all go, because it cannot be fixed. I just don't know what to do

If I stay home with him, I think I would suffer. I don't think he'll change. It will hurt me to see him partying while I'm stuck at home alone. I have no friends or family where we live. I only have him. So of course this all is killing me. I'm praying for peace.
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  #10  
Unread 11-04-2015, 06:55 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

no dice on this guy!

break up!

PS i am not an expert. grin..
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Unread 11-04-2015, 10:00 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana View Post
no dice on this guy!

break up!
Hi, Tik.
If you don't mind my asking and this is strictly for instructional purposes for me...
Since you see reception more traditionally, and also Merc and Jup do ultimately apply to a sextile without interference from other planets, what is it that makes you see no dice:
Is it Merc combust and Moon VOC overriding the favorable reception from him to her and the favorable aspect beween primary sigs?
Thank you.
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  #12  
Unread 11-04-2015, 10:39 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

sun sextiles jupiter first though
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Unread 11-04-2015, 10:47 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

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Originally Posted by tikana View Post
sun sextiles jupiter first though
You are right! Thank you.
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Unread 11-05-2015, 09:46 AM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Hi, Tik.
If you don't mind my asking and this is strictly for instructional purposes for me...
Since you see reception more traditionally, and also Merc and Jup do ultimately apply to a sextile without interference from other planets, what is it that makes you see no dice:
Is it Merc combust and Moon VOC overriding the favorable reception from him to her and the favorable aspect beween primary sigs?
Thank you.
If Moon is Void aspect between significators cannot bring anything, for it to be more favourable the signficators have to have good dignity and reception, but here Jupiter is in detriment Mercury is combust. Moon is totally Void.

No go here
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Unread 11-05-2015, 03:20 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafaella View Post
If Moon is Void aspect between significators cannot bring anything, for it to be more favourable the signficators have to have good dignity and reception, but here Jupiter is in detriment Mercury is combust. Moon is totally Void.

No go here
Thank you, rafaella. If I might just go a step further hypothetically: are you saying above that if Moon were void, and sigs had more favorable dignity and reception, that it might be a go?
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Unread 11-05-2015, 03:27 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

I think it was Bonatti who wrote about that, Ilene, but I'm not absolutely certain. But when the moon is void and the sigs are in poor dignity, things tend to not work out.
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Unread 11-05-2015, 03:43 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
I think it was Bonatti who wrote about that, Ilene, but I'm not absolutely certain. But when the moon is void and the sigs are in poor dignity, things tend to not work out.
Thank you for responding, Oddity.
I think I may understand that general concept of the effect of Moon void and poor dignity. My question now is about the subtleties. Such as, if Moon is void and sigs are in good dignity, or Moon VOC and good reception, or Moon VOC and both favorable dignity and reception?

In your experience or study, have you seen any of these favorable attributes of dignity or reception mitigate Moon VOC's influence for things to tend not to work out?
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Unread 11-05-2015, 04:09 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Was it Lilly who wrote about that? Something to the effect that 'unless the significators are strong, the moon void of course means matters go hardly onward'?

I'm on my first cup of coffee here, but I'm sure someone will jump in with the correct quote.

What I have been seeing especially lately is that debilitated planets do not perform, even when they've got other dignity (the recent Venus in Virgo but still in its own term, triplicity, and face). Even more generally - the conjunction of the benefics has brought few favours, very probably because of the debility.
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Unread 11-06-2015, 01:12 AM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Thank you, rafaella. If I might just go a step further hypothetically: are you saying above that if Moon were void, and sigs had more favorable dignity and reception, that it might be a go?
Ok this is what Lilly states in his Aphorisms, CA chapter 48, p.299

"Generally, consider the state of the Moon, for if she be void of course, there is no great hopes of the question propounded, that it shall be affected; yet if she be in Cancer, Taurus, Sagittarius, or Pisces, your fear may be the less, for then she is not much impeded by being Void of course"

Here is what Frawley says in Textbook, p. 65

" A Void Moon is not always the final answer, however. Like any other individual testimony, it can be overruled. If the main significators are strong and applying to aspect, the event can still happen"

I'm not sure if Lilly agrees with Frawley, we will have to dig a bit more in CA for that. Its pretty rare event for Moon to be completely Void in charts, many times Moon is within orb of application to another planet in the next sign, so to test Frawley's theory is difficult.

I have seen positive testimony of Moon being in Pisces yet thing still brought to perfection, the significators in that case had just separated, so they got back together because Moon was in favourable sign. Had Moon been in Leo like here, things would have been different.

For the above example if Jupiter was in Virgo and Mercury in Sagittarius and both angular and applying, perhaps things would have been positive even with Moon in Leo and Void. Because angularity would have given them accidental dignity, and there is then strong reception as well, so perhaps this aspect could overrule Void Moon?
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  #20  
Unread 11-06-2015, 04:42 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Hi, Tik.
If you don't mind my asking and this is strictly for instructional purposes for me...
Since you see reception more traditionally, and also Merc and Jup do ultimately apply to a sextile without interference from other planets, what is it that makes you see no dice:
Is it Merc combust and Moon VOC overriding the favorable reception from him to her and the favorable aspect beween primary sigs?
Thank you.

Does the "Merc and Jup that applying to a sextile without interference from other planets" represent us getting back together.. but with no success or change? I'm trying to see what the sextile aspect represents. Does this mean nothing?.
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Unread 11-06-2015, 04:49 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kissthesky View Post
Does the "Merc and Jup that applying to a sextile without interference from other planets" represent us getting back together.. but with no success or change? I'm trying to see what the sextile aspect represents. Does this mean nothing?.
Well, as Tikana was kind and astute enough to observe in her post here in this thread, Merc and Jup do not apply to a sextile without interference.
This is because, as she noted, Sun aspects [interferes] Jupiter before Mercury can perfect the sextile. So I was in error with that statement; there is no applying aspect between Merc and Jup.
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Unread 11-07-2015, 09:23 PM
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Re: Will We Be Together? (Or Break Up)

Bumping, but for theory. Ilene, I thought it was Bonatti, but I found this in Lilly's considerations:

All manner of matters go hardly on (except the principal significators be very strong) when the moon is void of course; yet somewhat she performs if void of course, and be either in Taurus, Cancer, Sagittarius, or Pisces.
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