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  #1  
Unread 09-25-2015, 07:11 PM
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Chart not Radical - Reaction?

So I have a chart where the the Lord of the Hour is/does not:

Significator is ASC ruler
Agrees with triplicity
Agrees with humour

What's the best thing to do?

In this case, I have asked about something before, so I wonder if that means an earlier chart is valid. Well, I no longer have said chart! So, what will be, will be!

And if it's a question which has not been asked before, what to do next?

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Unread 09-25-2015, 08:49 PM
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Re: Chart not Radical - Reaction?

It just means the chart isn't radical. There are implications for a chart with a "radical" setting (hour agreement) that can have an impact on a chart.

Chart can still be judged, its not that the chart is invalid by any means.

.
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Unread 09-26-2015, 01:48 AM
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Re: Chart not Radical - Reaction?

check lunar location an last aspect it made
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Unread 09-26-2015, 06:00 PM
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Hmm how do I treat the chart knowing this?

The last aspect the Moon, I, made was an opposition to Venus.
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Unread 09-26-2015, 08:00 PM
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Re: Chart not Radical - Reaction?

You just read it, Jove. Radicality is a check, one point on the list, it's not the determining factor of whether a chart can be read. Most of the considerations aren't, this one especially isn't.
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  #6  
Unread 09-26-2015, 10:28 PM
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Re: Chart not Radical - Reaction?

Thanks for all the input everyone.

OK, so such a chart can be read. But it comes with meaning. What is that meaning?

Because, what would be the point of checking for radicality at all if it's not interpreted?
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Unread 09-26-2015, 10:59 PM
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Re: Chart not Radical - Reaction?

You don't know this guy who just e-mailed/showed up at your office.

He asks - whatever.

The chart isn't radical.

It might be prudent to clarify the question/get more information before proceeding. Even still, it's a minor, minor consideration. Culpeper noted that many times it made no difference. Lilly read charts that weren't 'radical'. We all do it here, if for no other reason than most people use astro.com and astro doesn't provide the planetary hour for charts.

Last edited by Oddity; 09-26-2015 at 11:02 PM.
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Unread 09-27-2015, 01:13 AM
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Re: Chart not Radical - Reaction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Thanks for all the input everyone.

OK, so such a chart can be read. But it comes with meaning. What is that meaning?

Because, what would be the point of checking for radicality at all if it's not interpreted?
These are my working thoughts on radicality, though I'm sure Oddity has read more on the subject than I have.

The hour ruler used to be more important in ancient times than it is currently credited. To understand its significance in a chart we need to understand its job, so to speak. Another name for hour ruler is hour watcher, and if we use the analogy of the watchman standing guard in the watch tower, then we can see the concept of radicality as the Universe's delegate to watch during that hour paying attention to the question.

If we have no hour ruler agreement, what are some of the reasons the Universe might not be paying attention to the question? Having asked the same question 300 times comes to mind, much as a mother learns to tune out the voices of her bickering children in order to keep from going mad. As a mother I can vouch that there are times when you do that you might miss something...so there's one reason to still read the chart.

The most important thing I have noticed in non-radical charts is that often the question being asked isn't the message the Universe has for the querent. As in, the hour ruler could be saying "I'm not paying attention to your question about your boyfriend who just broke up with you because I'm too busy looking over here where you are about to lose your job." Whenever I see a chart that doesn't have hour ruler agreement it's a caution to me to pay particular attention to all the planets in the chart, in case there is something else afoot that the querent should be paying attention to despite the question.

Lastly, I think it might have been Deb Houlding at one time or another who said that with non radical charts it is often a battle to get the querent to hear and understand the answer the chart is giving, largely because the answer isn't the one they are looking for.
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  #9  
Unread 09-27-2015, 02:14 AM
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Re: Chart not Radical - Reaction?

You should listen to Mrs Small. She is far younger than me, and far more careful.

What it's probably going to come down to is this: There will be charts that you blow. Occasionally, you won't be able to find a reason. Not often, but it happens. Most of the time, your mistake is crystal clear in hindsight. You aren't likely to make those particular mistakes again. Those things will end up on your personal 'things to look out for' list.

Sometimes, maybe even often, you'll get it right, but you'll miss some important details. These charts, too, contain the answer, and why you missed that huge obstacle the querent had to go through to get what they wanted. Your list of things to look out for will get a bit bigger with this stuff, too.

Many of these things are the classical considerations before judgement. (There was a point to my ramble.) Some of them aren't, but they're still important.

Read Sahl. Read Bonatti if you can. Struggle through Lilly. They'll give you a good idea of why they consider those things important, and for the most part, it will ring true.

For me, personally, the biggest consideration is finding the question behind the question. Sometimes people ask what they want to know. A LOT of times they don't want to know the future, they just want to know that everything is going to be okay eventually. WHEN will I be in a relationship? WHEN will I be rich? WHEN will I have a child? WHEN will I get a job?

Maybe those things won't happen for your client. They may not. And they really aren't the question. You can't assume that much in horary, it doesn't work. It can be more subtle than that but that's the wrong kind of question you're likely to see most, or at least I have. It takes some people skills to deal with that, which I hope astrologers, of all people, do learn.

Get as much experience under your belt as you can.

I don't know any other way of doing it.
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  #10  
Unread 09-27-2015, 02:43 AM
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Re: Chart not Radical - Reaction?

I'll comment on what tsmall mentioned about the planetary hours being used in the past, so you can get the picture on the "why" they are used.

Planetary hours are used much more in ancient Electional astrology (which is the branch Horary is believed to be derived from), with specific actions being more "favourable" during specific times of day, depending on the hour ruler and its natural rulerships (the obvious example, courtship during day/hour of Venus).

This is why it is applied to casting Horary charts, as it would seem more favourable to ask a question on the time the Hour ruler is in charge of the Ascending sign

Remember than in ancient times, Triplicity rulership was just as important as Sign rulership. Notice tsmall's comment on planetary watchers (or guardians), which is of great importance. If the Ascending sign of your question is under the protection of the time guardian (belongs to its triplicity), then you can render your question to be of importance to that ruler, given that the planet is in charge of watching over those signs (ex: Jupiter as ruler of Fire triplcity).

In a way, the radical chart implies that the question was asked to the astrologer in a favourable moment, and thus will provide the correct answer (if the chart is properly read of course). As tsmall and Oddity mentioned, when the chart is not radical, the chart is telling you something by it. It can still be read, but its like getting the answer from someone that is not interested in replying.

("Yeah yeah, he loves you, whatever, stop calling please...!")
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Last edited by Dirius; 09-27-2015 at 03:04 AM.
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  #11  
Unread 09-28-2015, 07:20 PM
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Re: Chart not Radical - Reaction?

Some really good feedback here, food for thought.


I've read everything carefully and I'm pondering over it. I'll keep special attention to charts now where the hour ruler isn't in agreement. I'll keep an eye on what the other planets may be doing. (I'm still learning slowly with horary and my interpretation needs more experience.)
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  #12  
Unread 09-28-2015, 10:01 PM
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Re: Chart not Radical - Reaction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post

The most important thing I have noticed in non-radical charts is that often the question being asked isn't the message the Universe has for the querent. As in, the hour ruler could be saying "I'm not paying attention to your question about your boyfriend who just broke up with you because I'm too busy looking over here where you are about to lose your job." Whenever I see a chart that doesn't have hour ruler agreement it's a caution to me to pay particular attention to all the planets in the chart, in case there is something else afoot that the querent should be paying attention to despite the question.
I have noticed this too using other mediums of divination, and its just not limited to horary. Its very true! Good observation.
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