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  #1  
Unread 12-23-2012, 09:49 AM
tee_jay66 tee_jay66 is offline
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astrology and the soul

I would like a discussion about the soul of man connected with astrology.

Lately Ive been wondering and looking into this subject deeply. We as humans have a soul = emotions, thoughts, will and personality and we have an inner man (spiritual man). Our spirit inside is the part which is pure, holy and untouched.

Our outer man is governed by our personality and temperemant. This I believe is where astrology comes into play.

I do not think now we have to be governed by our astrological charts because it iis our soul's make-up. If we can somehow attempt to break the outer man to let the inner man (spiritual) come out, we can all ascend to a higher Godlike state which I believe is our true destiny, where we are all pure perfection.....the challenge is how we reach this truth without being pulled down by our soulish natures??

What are others thoughts on this topic please?

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  #2  
Unread 12-23-2012, 04:33 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

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Originally Posted by tee_jay66 View Post
....the challenge is how we reach this truth without being pulled down by our soulish natures??
I don't think it is possible to totally do away with ego while living here. It is what allows us to function on this plane. Allows us to have a mom and dad and dogs to act like dogs...so it is natural to want sex, some to want power, some to want to be beautiful. Do not suppress desires that come about for this is what is supposed to be and if you suppress things due to some abstract philosophy, then you will create mental blockages when in reality you should just allow them to express.

The problem is our relationships to the ego. You may want to be beautiful, but are you terribly depressed when you see a wrinkle for the first time? You may want a relationship, but are you suicidal if you break up with a bf/gf? It is our relationship with the ego. The ego is with us...I don't care if you are a saddhu eating bird poop and living in rags. You still have an EGO...dance with the ego.
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Unread 12-23-2012, 07:07 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

I think of the Soul as the Master Planner of our personal lives. The receptivity of the Soul allows us to incorporate all of our experiences and emotions into one 'container', which is the physical mind and body. It is the receptacle of our karmic, or spiritual lives, and holds the reigns of our individual pre-destination, while still allowing us to exert free will through the energies of our Sun, representing the Ego. In the words of 'the Seth Material' this is called the Over-soul. I do believe that certain things involve a degree of destiny; it holds the keys for our attempts to harmonize and blend together that which is within, and that which is without. This is the purpose of our astrology, to use as a guide-map to our greater purposes and aims. The often maligned planet of Pluto, represents the Soul, to me, because it represents resurrection and renewal. The energy of the Sun relates more to our external experiences, while the Moon is the receptacle of all our psyche's imprints, conditioning and memories, representing a more true reflection of who we are 'at our soul essence.' Through the Ascendant, we create a mask of personality that is projected outwards, and very often this is quite different from the true self within. I think that in the end, it all comes down to our variable levels of consciousness: that is one of the most primary purposes for our journeys through life. A wise man once said: Remember that, for many, this consciousness is often dwarfed by the physical manifestation. When we dwell only in the realm of the physical, we block ourselves from our divine connection, leaving a huge gap in our overall development. And I don't believe that perfection is the ultimate goal...it is more about achieving balance and harmony. To be more balanced, is to be more spiritual. These are my thoughts anyway.

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Unread 12-23-2012, 09:37 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

I believe the earth plane is a place for us to incarnate in order to experience a reality outside of the DIVINE. I feel that all of us are really a part of GOD that has given itself permission to experience unknown parts of DIVINE experience: evil, fear, pain, suffering etc.
I feel reincarnation is very real. Each of us has had multiple life experiences in which we get to be every cultural group, racial group, physical experience etc. All of this allows us to grow in our own DIVINITY.
Eventually, we will all return to the Source bringing with us all of the adventures we have had. I look forward to comparing notes as well as celebrating GOD in the many different ways which we all experience GOD.
There is no right or wrong way. There is only the experience of existence and what we attempt to fashion of it. A poorly lived experience will be balanced later on by a more productive one.
People always make mistakes but likewise we also create incredible joy and goodness on this plane of existence as well.

Blessings

Knowhow999
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  #5  
Unread 12-24-2012, 10:23 AM
tee_jay66 tee_jay66 is offline
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Re: astrology and the soul

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Originally Posted by retinoid View Post
I don't think it is possible to totally do away with ego while living here. It is what allows us to function on this plane. Allows us to have a mom and dad and dogs to act like dogs...so it is natural to want sex, some to want power, some to want to be beautiful. Do not suppress desires that come about for this is what is supposed to be and if you suppress things due to some abstract philosophy, then you will create mental blockages when in reality you should just allow them to express.

The problem is our relationships to the ego. You may want to be beautiful, but are you terribly depressed when you see a wrinkle for the first time? You may want a relationship, but are you suicidal if you break up with a bf/gf? It is our relationship with the ego. The ego is with us...I don't care if you are a saddhu eating bird poop and living in rags. You still have an EGO...dance with the ego.
surely this need in some for power, or the need to be beautiful and so on is the cause of such misery and self destruction. I dont think our ego's should ever be in control. I thought we should be training our inner (spiritual) man to conquer these demons of the ego.
I mean, look at the demise of the world through letting our ego's dance...as you put it
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  #6  
Unread 12-24-2012, 10:37 AM
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Re: astrology and the soul

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Originally Posted by kimbermoon View Post
I think of the Soul as the Master Planner of our personal lives. The receptivity of the Soul allows us to incorporate all of our experiences and emotions into one 'container', which is the physical mind and body. It is the receptacle of our karmic, or spiritual lives, and holds the reigns of our individual pre-destination, while still allowing us to exert free will through the energies of our Sun, representing the Ego. In the words of 'the Seth Material' this is called the Over-soul. I do believe that certain things involve a degree of destiny; it holds the keys for our attempts to harmonize and blend together that which is within, and that which is without. This is the purpose of our astrology, to use as a guide-map to our greater purposes and aims. The often maligned planet of Pluto, represents the Soul, to me, because it represents resurrection and renewal. The energy of the Sun relates more to our external experiences, while the Moon is the receptacle of all our psyche's imprints, conditioning and memories, representing a more true reflection of who we are 'at our soul essence.' Through the Ascendant, we create a mask of personality that is projected outwards, and very often this is quite different from the true self within. I think that in the end, it all comes down to our variable levels of consciousness: that is one of the most primary purposes for our journeys through life. A wise man once said: Remember that, for many, this consciousness is often dwarfed by the physical manifestation. When we dwell only in the realm of the physical, we block ourselves from our divine connection, leaving a huge gap in our overall development. And I don't believe that perfection is the ultimate goal...it is more about achieving balance and harmony. To be more balanced, is to be more spiritual. These are my thoughts anyway.


from your quote " when we dwell only in the realm of the physical, we block ourselves from our divine connection".......this is what I agree with and I think what I was trying to explain. So I thought that astrology and chart reading were keeping ourselves on the physical so to speak and ruminating about our experiences, habits, feelings and so forth, thus keeping us at lower primal levels and not advancing spiritually....(can you make any sense of where Im coming from)

I was thinking that there was a higher way forward than astrology? What does astrology have to do with God and where is it interlinked? any ideas
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Unread 12-24-2012, 10:48 AM
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Re: astrology and the soul

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Originally Posted by knowhow999 View Post
I believe the earth plane is a place for us to incarnate in order to experience a reality outside of the DIVINE. I feel that all of us are really a part of GOD that has given itself permission to experience unknown parts of DIVINE experience: evil, fear, pain, suffering etc.
I feel reincarnation is very real. Each of us has had multiple life experiences in which we get to be every cultural group, racial group, physical experience etc. All of this allows us to grow in our own DIVINITY.
Eventually, we will all return to the Source bringing with us all of the adventures we have had. I look forward to comparing notes as well as celebrating GOD in the many different ways which we all experience GOD.
There is no right or wrong way. There is only the experience of existence and what we attempt to fashion of it. A poorly lived experience will be balanced later on by a more productive one.
People always make mistakes but likewise we also create incredible joy and goodness on this plane of existence as well.

Blessings

Knowhow999
Hi

what you have written is what I used to believe then started having doubts.

I cannot see now the point of endless lives leading up to a point of total destruction of the earth. I actually think (just my opinion, not preaching) that we are de-volving as a human race, not evolving because the world is heading towards its destruction caused by mans inability to grow spiritually.
If we look at our world, isint it clear to see we are in the end times with the pain and misery at every corner?

Can I ask you what your opinion and thoughts are on the end of the world as know it? and where does God figure in this?

many thanks
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  #8  
Unread 12-24-2012, 05:49 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

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Originally Posted by tee_jay66 View Post
Hi

what you have written is what I used to believe then started having doubts.

I cannot see now the point of endless lives leading up to a point of total destruction of the earth. I actually think (just my opinion, not preaching) that we are de-volving as a human race, not evolving because the world is heading towards its destruction caused by mans inability to grow spiritually.
If we look at our world, isint it clear to see we are in the end times with the pain and misery at every corner?

Can I ask you what your opinion and thoughts are on the end of the world as know it? and where does God figure in this?

many thanks
Pain and misery at every corner? What neighborhood are you hanging out at...what neighborhood do you have inside you?
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Unread 12-25-2012, 03:57 AM
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Re: astrology and the soul

A excellent small book on the subject of this thread is by Modernist pioneer Charles Carter, entitled "The Zodiac and the Soul", which I recommend highly...
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  #10  
Unread 01-22-2013, 02:38 AM
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Talking Re: astrology and the soul

Quote:
Originally Posted by tee_jay66 View Post
Hi

what you have written is what I used to believe then started having doubts.

I cannot see now the point of endless lives leading up to a point of total destruction of the earth. I actually think (just my opinion, not preaching) that we are de-volving as a human race, not evolving because the world is heading towards its destruction caused by mans inability to grow spiritually.
If we look at our world, isint it clear to see we are in the end times with the pain and misery at every corner?

Can I ask you what your opinion and thoughts are on the end of the world as know it? and where does God figure in this?

many thanks
Destruction is just another word for change and transformation. In the end, we know that things change, but nothing is ever lost. Even if the human race is de-volving as you say, consciousness and spirit will just manifest another physical form and reality, or another playground if you will. Though I don't think that we are in the end times. I believe the Aquarian Age signals a new world if you will and individuality and humanity will find their way forward.


In regards to Astrology, the natal chart is the energy imprint at birth onto the individual's consciousness and closely outlines the roadmap if you will as to the energy expression of all vehicles of consciousness, starting at the physical, emotional, mental of the lower bridge towards higher mind, intuition and spiritual will (terms taken from esoteric astrology) though the philosophical context is my own.

I especially enjoy reading the Transcendent Potential for the aspects from Gargatholil's site: http://depthastrology2.com/
The aspects are explained philosophically and demonstrate how the new energy expression differs when the lower vehicles are consciously spiritualized and expressed through the higher vehicles.

Lastly, having been self-trained in Astrology, it's allowed me to progress at my own time and understanding of the concepts without being brainwashed into believing anything in particular. I'm now looking at Harmonics and believe I have a new interpretation which is partly recognized by Astrologers but has never been fully synthesized. Each Harmonic number is not just an aspect determination where conjunctions allow the aspects to be seen more clearly. I believe that as soul consciousness emerges into the natal chart and all aspects are transcended, Harmonic charts demonstrate the fully utilized and consciously focused conjunction at its soul expression.

Thus, it is no longer sufficient to say I have so many Squares and Oppositions and therefore my life will always be a challenge. Oppositions functioning on the 2nd Harmonic require balance, harmony, cooperation (as expressed by 2 numerology) and once applied and transcended, the oppositions will express as an actual conjunction. Same with Squares, functioning on the 4th Harmonic requiring patience, self-discipline, hard work and stabilizing presence, also can be transcended into conjunctions. I'm still wondering whether numerology life path, destiny numbers etc play a role in the Harmonic overlays and whether individuals are more sensitive to those Harmonic aspects as opposed to others - so a person with a life path number of 2 would feel the 2nd Harmonic overlay chart greater than all the others and have to strive harder to integrate those oppositions into conjunctions. It may explain why there's so many differing opinions of why individuals with the same aspects may feel them differently.

The idea of aspects transcending into conjunctions stems from my own chart where I no longer seem to relate to square/opposition energy and perceive them as conjunctions. My Mercury opp. Uranus aspect no longer challenges or confuses my mental vehicles and I am able to accept both left brain, right brain logical thinking along with intuitive insights from out of the blue. Of course this could also be one of those concepts that is just out there and/or is ahead of its time. Might as well post it on the forum and see where it goes.

I'll probably start another thread specifically about Harmonics and Soul Expressions but that was just an overview summary. Any thoughts?
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  #11  
Unread 01-22-2013, 07:53 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

Teejay: what does astrology have to do with God and where is it interlinked.


In the dark heavens, the serpent traversed the universe, looking for that special something to fill it's void and make him whole and complete. Alone, this energy could not create, or communicate or feel or unite...it was aimless. But then a change came, and the vibrations of the universe began to meld together and vibrate more rapidly and harmonize, and then came the dawn of a light of higher consciousness and awareness. And with the light, She became noticed, and fueled him with the desire to create and reproduce. In Her presence he began to understand things about emotional awareness, a new sense of nurturing and protection and support, and offering him the channels to create and bring new things to life. And in their union there was balance. This is my take on God. It is not a being, but a consciousness that comes from a higher source.

"With spirit we are all children of the cosmos; without it we are orphaned and adrift."

How is God reflected in the chart: it is the combined energies between the Sun and
the Moon through which we must individually find the direction towards emotional experience and the creative impetus. These two must be somehow balanced
from within.God can be reflected through the 9th house; Pluto represents the
deeper Soul; Jupiter represents the Guru; the 4th represents the accumulated
contents of the psyche which orchestrates our development; Saturn speaks to our
past, and karmic imprints; the Nodes attempt to show us where we are meant to
be going; Chiron shows where our innermost woundings can be revealed and
healed. The water houses and signs depict our ability to be psychically attuned to
a higher awareness and spiritual connections. Uranus with Mercury shows the
ability to communicate with that higher awareness. Neptune keeps us fooled
by the veil of illusion, or it can show our capacity for transcendence. It is all a
metaphor for what is happening in the heavens!
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Unread 01-22-2013, 08:01 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: astrology and the soul

How deep do you want to go? Read Alice A. Bailey, particularly "ESOTERIC ASTROLOGY". These are available on-line.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/54703763/E...ven-Rays-Vol-3
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Unread 01-27-2013, 11:16 AM
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Re: astrology and the soul

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How deep do you want to go? Read Alice A. Bailey, particularly "ESOTERIC ASTROLOGY". These are available on-line.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/54703763/E...ven-Rays-Vol-3
I just wanted to thankyou on your recommendation of Alice Bailey's writings....24 books in total...OMG this is the deep stuff Im after I just hope I can understand it. Ive decided to buy a copy of this one volume 3 as its over 700 pages long...thanks again
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Unread 01-27-2013, 03:48 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

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Originally Posted by tee_jay66 View Post
Hi

what you have written is what I used to believe then started having doubts.

I cannot see now the point of endless lives leading up to a point of total destruction of the earth. I actually think (just my opinion, not preaching) that we are de-volving as a human race, not evolving because the world is heading towards its destruction caused by mans inability to grow spiritually.
If we look at our world, isint it clear to see we are in the end times with the pain and misery at every corner?

Can I ask you what your opinion and thoughts are on the end of the world as know it? and where does God figure in this?

many thanks
A lot of humans alive today are actually much more 'broad' in the sense they have probably had very few if any earth lives. So we can say a lot are more advanced spiritually and vibrationally. I think this occurred after the atomic bomb because now humans had technology that could destroy themselves and everything else in an instant.

So we are not devolving, in fact a lot (not most or all) humans are actually very advanced. It takes them a lot of time to find their true natures on this planet and dimension as well though because it is a harsh environment and their consciousness is clouded and they are usually placed in difficult situations...on top of that very few 'like it' here. Which is why many of them are probably extremely depressed, suicidal, or had many feelings geared toward this direction.

So don't give up as there is help towards revamping everything and it will happen. The seeds are being planted. But as you know this world has never been easy to navigate in.
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Unread 01-27-2013, 04:53 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

Yikes, tee jay: not only what neighbourhood are you hanging out in, but what decade? "Man" as a generic term for humanity went out in the 1970s.

Also, modern astrology got its start in the theosophical movement of the late 19th & early 20th centuries. Charles Carter and Alice Bailey have been mentioned, but Dane Rudhyar's books on spiritual astrology were extremely popular and are still in print. I also highly recommend the Jane Roberts "Seth" books and Eckhart Tolle's books.

Here is my take on soul-based astrology, based partly on what I've read.

1. Growth and creativity are hard-wired into the universe. The soul partakes of this growth and creativity.

2. The fundamental substance of the universe is divine consciousness. Some people call it God, but it is non-sectarian. The soul is a portion of this divine consciousness. Thus it is never other than divine consciousness.

Some people experience this consciousness as universal love.

3. Part of the universal creativity involves experimentation with various ideas, practices, and concepts. Among these are many dualisms: the mind-body (or soul-body) dualism, matter vs. spirit, you vs. me, them vs. us, male vs. female, and so on. However, these binaries are all cultural constructs.

"Outer man" vs. "inner man" is another one of these binaries. Try thinking of yourself as unity, including unity with the cosmos.

4. Bodies and matter are not inherently less noble than mind. This is another cultural construct developed by the ancient Greek philosophers. Incarnation into physicality is merely another type of creativity.

5. Forgetting or wilfully denying all of this is another form of creativity, albeit a form that can cause suffering. Although suffering is horrible to watch and experience, it can goad us into acts of helpful compassion and appreciation for non-suffering.

6. Your soul incarnates to learn and to teach as forms of growth for itself and for others. Astrologically these may be indicated by the pre-natal solar and lunar eclipses (as per Jan Spiller's book on spiritual astrology) or perhaps by your lunar nodes. [They are actually close to one another in the horoscope but can appear in adjacent signs and houses.]

7. The horoscope as a whole indicates the challenges we face and the assets we bring to these purposes.

8. Our experiences are part of the creative process. Whether we perceive an environment as beautiful or ugly indicates what we bring to our lives. The environment is neither objectively beautiful or ugly independent of how we choose to perceive it.

9. We don't understand everything and probably never will as earthly beings. Part of our creative process on earth is to experience our brains as finite. As a rabbinical saying posed it, "If we could understand Him, could He really be God?"
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Unread 01-28-2013, 04:21 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

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I just wanted to thankyou on your recommendation of Alice Bailey's writings....24 books in total...OMG this is the deep stuff Im after I just hope I can understand it. Ive decided to buy a copy of this one volume 3 as its over 700 pages long...thanks again
I've been studying the stuff for more than 40 years, and for 25 of those I was a student of the Arcane School(you will see the School referenced in the volumes in the back). After all this time I cn say I have a basic appreciation.

I suggest you also get a copy of A TREATISE ON WHITE MAGIC and INITIATION: HUMAN AND SOLAR. After that start with the other volumes of A TREATISE ON THE SEVEN RAYS(Esoreric Psychology vol 1 & 2, Esoteric Healing vol 4, and The Rays and the Initiations, vol 5 in the set of 5). Don't bother with A TREATISE ON COSMIC FIRE, unless you really want to blow yourself away. After all these years, I still have only a rudimentary understanding of COSMIC FIRE.
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Unread 01-28-2013, 05:49 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

Sorry, so late in replying---many personal losses of late. I think the earth will be destroyed as a result of the Sun's demise. The nature of evil in the world, I feel is a function of less evolved souls(by number of incarnate experiences) doing their thing.
Unfortunately, many such souls seem present on the earth plane at present. Also, many of these individuals have assumed positions of great power within governments around the world. Look at the mess so many nations and peoples are in.
I also think that earth is not the only place that our souls incarnate into physical reality. Free will, may come into play through how we choose to balance out our karma/not.
I also feel that we have freedom in selecting where/when/if we incarnate. Spirit I feel is our natural state of existence. We just play around in the physical in our journey back to GOD.
These are thoughts that I hold. Others are at home within opposing/differing universes of discourse. Variety is the spice of life.

Blessings
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Unread 01-29-2013, 02:13 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

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Sorry, so late in replying---many personal losses of late. I think the earth will be destroyed as a result of the Sun's demise. The nature of evil in the world, I feel is a function of less evolved souls(by number of incarnate experiences) doing their thing.
Unfortunately, many such souls seem present on the earth plane at present. Also, many of these individuals have assumed positions of great power within governments around the world. Look at the mess so many nations and peoples are in.
I also think that earth is not the only place that our souls incarnate into physical reality. Free will, may come into play through how we choose to balance out our karma/not.
I also feel that we have freedom in selecting where/when/if we incarnate. Spirit I feel is our natural state of existence. We just play around in the physical in our journey back to GOD.
These are thoughts that I hold. Others are at home within opposing/differing universes of discourse. Variety is the spice of life.

Blessings
What do you think the point is of ourselves choosing to incarnate or not for that matter......I know about the perfecting of our souls through many different lives and experiences. But what is the actual point of it, when we are all divinely perfect in our true natures anyway and have no need to keep playing at life....isint it all rather boorish and a waste of time when we could be happy at home with God?
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Unread 01-29-2013, 02:21 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

Hi,
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Originally Posted by tee_jay66 View Post
What do you think the point is of ourselves choosing to incarnate or not for that matter......
Teejay, do you really think we have a choice as to whether or not we want to reincarnate?

AQ7
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Unread 01-29-2013, 03:35 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

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Hi,
Teejay, do you really think we have a choice as to whether or not we want to reincarnate?

AQ7
I agree. I don't think we have a choice at least in that matter
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Unread 01-29-2013, 04:14 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

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Originally Posted by LeoCassandra View Post
I agree. I don't think we have a choice at least in that matter
Well if you believe what eastern mystics say they say it IS a choice to continuously reincarnate because you are attached to 'maya'/Illusion. This is mostly a physical phenomenon while the whole universes/all reality is not physical and it is very different than just what earth offers. In this sense, souls do choose to incarnate because it gives it perspective and complexity. It is like a piece of paper getting different colors. And no life, no matter how traumatic or what you did, damages the soul. Though an aspect of the soul can forget itself which is what being lost in the cycle means. But the soul overall is most likely involved in many lives all at once in different parallels experiencing countless permutations.
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*If I read a chart it is via the whole sign house system.*
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Unread 01-29-2013, 04:33 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

Have any of you read the "Seth" books by Jane Roberts? Highly recommended.

Seth is a disincarnate being who went through many lives. Jane Roberts was a channel for his wisdom. (That is, if you believe this sort of thing.)

One's of Seth's messages is that souls do indeed choose to reincarnate at particular moments, oftentimes with former friends and family members. The soul's primary goal is evolution, so souls choose birth circumstances most conducive to their personal growth.

Your NN gives some idea as to where your soul is heading in this lifetime for growth purposes.
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Unread 01-29-2013, 05:06 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

When Soul choose not to reincarnate, what happen with it?with us?
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Unread 01-29-2013, 05:57 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

Stagnation.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 01-29-2013, 06:59 PM
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Re: astrology and the soul

re...'the point of choosing to incarnate or not for that matter'. It is my understanding that the whole point is about creativity...our souls are creative beings, with the impulse to create things of meaning and lasting value...this is the primary impetus of our Sun...unfortunately in the other world, creations are impermanent and temporary, whereas we need the physical form of matter to make long term impressions...

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