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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #26  
Unread 01-12-2013, 06:15 AM
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Re: Firdaria

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Originally Posted by byjove View Post

- I have two questions; which marriage indicators would you use if your client were gay? I'm interested in male/male but knowing female/female would be good for knowledge too. Would it be the Sun and Saturn or Mars?
Some say to use Sun in male chart and Moon in female chart.
Because, traditionally, Sun is significator [one of the significators] for husband, so in a male gay chart, these people suggest to use Sun instead of Moon as significator for wife.
Play a bit with these things so you may find them worthy of investigation.

Quote:
- Also, as for marriage promise in the natal chart and then considering Firdaria, what if the 1st or 7th rulers had mixed aspects; challenging and supportive? Would it take a closer look at those aspects to better understand what to expect?
I have found that when L1 and L7 rule the Firdariyyah, they often times bring marriage unions. If aspect is square without reception, this is one of the indicators that there will be many quarels between the native and the partner, and even divorce.
Again, this is indication not only for marriage and romantic unions, but it is an indication that the native will have often fights with other people in general, because 7th signifies Other People with whom we come in contact, one on one.
Furthermore, if there is an aversion between these two lords, that is, they do not see each other with a classical aspect, this is one of the indications of a person not getting in to marriage union, and that the connection with other people is problematic, relationship of any sort often time brakes without any particular cause.


Quote:
p.s. TSmall, I think Valens used a slightly different Firdaria structure, just for the Hellenists among us. I could be wrong but I thought I seen a different method applied than here.
Valens used the so called Decennials.
Here is an artical on decennials:

http://beyondtheheaven.wordpress.com...ing-technique/

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  #27  
Unread 01-22-2013, 12:39 PM
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Re: Firdaria

Can anyone tell more about the nature of the ruler of a period and the sub-period? I'm trying to determine the bounderies of each ruler. When I see the sub-ruler, I think, exactly how much influence does the main ruler of the period have? Is there any sense of 'the influence of the sub-ruler must pass through the theme of the ruler of the period'?

I really have to say that in the time that I've been testing this, it links up with sudden changes which transits and progressions have not been showing. The most dignified planets in my chart correlate very well with the happiest periods of my life - the years that they ruled. I'm unsure about the exact nature/condition of one planet in my chart, which is now sub-ruling, but time will tell...
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  #28  
Unread 01-22-2013, 12:49 PM
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Re: Firdaria

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Some say to use Sun in male chart and Moon in female chart.
Because, traditionally, Sun is significator [one of the significators] for husband, so in a male gay chart, these people suggest to use Sun instead of Moon as significator for wife.
Play a bit with these things so you may find them worthy of investigation.

I will indeed. I was just snooping at older threads on this where this has come up. Some say use Mars, becuase Mars represents male attraction generally. There may indeed be an argument for the Sun - Mariah Carey, Capricorn on the 7th, Sun in the 10th - she married her manager didn't she? But he was controlling and it disolved. I wonder if there are any astrologers on here who've seen this already that could indicate one way or another?

It's very important to me. I like to get a taste of my career potential as much as my marriage. If the Sun takes the lead for indicating husband in my chart (or even Mars), over the traditionally-used Moon, it really would make all the difference in my chart.
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  #29  
Unread 01-27-2013, 09:45 PM
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Re: Firdaria

Hello! I am very interested in learning some traditional techniques, however, this is WAY beyond my scope of knowledge. I am currently in the process of learning modern astrology but I am still a novice in that. To me all knowledge is good knowledge and eventually I hope to be well practiced in both. Problem is, I own no astrology books and I gain most of my knowledge through AW, which has helped me greatly and I respect all the contributing members on the forum. Financially I can't afford to buy books presently.

Anyways! I went to the Firdaria calculator. I am under "Moon Period."
Moon/Saturn : April 3, 2012
Moon/Jupiter : July 17, 2013

If anyone could tell me what these periods represent, I would be most appreciative. Thanks.
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  #30  
Unread 01-28-2013, 12:47 PM
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Re: Firdaria

Hi, without looking at your chart it is hard to tell what one can expect from the Moon period..

Quote:
I hope to be well practiced in both
In my opinion, there is no way reconciling both approaches, modern and traditional. Eventually you would need to pick just one and follow the thread.
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  #31  
Unread 01-28-2013, 07:20 PM
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Re: Firdaria

Thanks for the reply! However, I believe that one can successfully learn many techniques and implement them to good use. It seems there are several astrologers on AW that have an eclectic approach that seems to work for them.
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  #32  
Unread 01-28-2013, 07:30 PM
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Re: Firdaria

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Originally Posted by princess valhalla View Post
Thanks for the reply! However, I believe that one can successfully learn many techniques and implement them to good use. It seems there are several astrologers on AW that have an eclectic approach that seems to work for them.
Well, everyone with their own..
It seems out that eclecticism is quite popular in 20 and 21st century. But the question is, why do you want to mix them both? Why you don't stick with one? And the last question is, if those techniques worked for more then 20 centuries, why to replace them with a new ones? Were not the old astrologers good at what they did and in that account, we need merging their tools with a new set of approaches and techniques?
My point is, try to learn it the way it was thought and used in the tradition, and if you are not satisfied, then leave them or mix them. But my advise is, please don't start with mixing them. Just a friendly advise, based on my experience of seeing people going down that road of mixing even before they learned the foundational principles of this Art.
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  #33  
Unread 01-28-2013, 07:36 PM
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Re: Firdaria

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Originally Posted by princess valhalla View Post
Thanks for the reply! However, I believe that one can successfully learn many techniques and implement them to good use. It seems there are several astrologers on AW that have an eclectic approach that seems to work for them.
dr. farr is an excellent example of a self-styled eclectic who frequently posts that he uses Vedic, Traditional, Modern, Hellenistic, Ankara as well any any number of Hermetic techniques HOWEVER dr. farr has at least four decades of experience!

As Omnisphericus has said

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
In my opinion, there is no way reconciling both approaches, modern and traditional. Eventually you would need to pick just one and follow the thread.
And that may simply be because it takes DECADES of experimentation and reasearch to develop one's own HIGHLY INDIVIDUAL eclectic approach that is ALSO successful
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  #34  
Unread 01-28-2013, 07:49 PM
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Re: Firdaria

Valid point. It's not that I want to mix them both but as a Sag, I like to explore all options and then decide which would work best for me. I realize there is a lot of arguments between astrologers concerning traditional vs. modern techniques. I am not knowledgeable enough to go there, nor do I want to. lol
Traditional has been more difficult, as a beginner, to wrap my head around. Plus I own no books, traditional nor modern. I do have a desire to learn traditional techniques but have no resources for it. I've learned everything I've known thus far on AW and it seems there is way more info on modern as opposed to traditional. The only member I know of who practices traditional is Tsmall. I just started looking on the traditional thread tucked away in 'other astrology.'
I will keep what you say in mind, as I do want to learn the foundations of astrology.
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  #35  
Unread 01-28-2013, 07:51 PM
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Re: Firdaria

yes, Dr. Farr is a great example and as you pointed out he has decades of experience. One day, maybe I can become as knowledgeable.
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But once they are in hand, he alone must decide
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  #36  
Unread 01-28-2013, 08:00 PM
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Re: Firdaria

Quote:
Originally Posted by princess valhalla View Post
Valid point. It's not that I want to mix them both but as a Sag, I like to explore all options and then decide which would work best for me. I realize there is a lot of arguments between astrologers concerning traditional vs. modern techniques. I am not knowledgeable enough to go there, nor do I want to. lol

Traditional has been more difficult, as a beginner, to wrap my head around.

Plus I own no books, traditional nor modern.

I do have a desire to learn traditional techniques but have no resources for it. I've learned everything I've known thus far on AW and it seems there is way more info on modern as opposed to traditional. The only member I know of who practices traditional is Tsmall. I just started looking on the traditional thread tucked away in 'other astrology.'
I will keep what you say in mind, as I do want to learn the foundations of astrology.

A great resource providing FREE online TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY TEXTS
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/texts.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by princess valhalla View Post
yes, Dr. Farr is a great example and as you pointed out he has decades of experience. One day, maybe I can become as knowledgeable.
Interestingly, dr. farr also posted that he used Placidus for three decades BEFORE THEN changing to Whole Sign!!

So it is therefore clear that astrology - whether Modern, Traditional OR Eclectic - requires time as well as much thoughtful study to master successfully
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Last edited by JUPITERASC; 01-28-2013 at 08:11 PM. Reason: typo
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  #37  
Unread 01-28-2013, 08:07 PM
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Re: Firdaria

Thanks for the link! I will def. check it out. Tsmall, also gave me a link I need to look at as well.
I do believe that learning is a never ending process!
“Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” ~Gandhi
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But once they are in hand, he alone must decide
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  #38  
Unread 01-28-2013, 08:43 PM
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Re: Firdaria

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
p.s. TSmall, I think Valens used a slightly different Firdaria structure, just for the Hellenists among us. I could be wrong but I thought I seen a different method applied than here.
byjove, yes. Hellenistic astrology does use something slightly different, called zodiacal releasing. Very similar in concept though.
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  #39  
Unread 01-28-2013, 08:49 PM
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Re: Firdaria

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Originally Posted by princess valhalla View Post
Valid point. It's not that I want to mix them both but as a Sag, I like to explore all options and then decide which would work best for me. I realize there is a lot of arguments between astrologers concerning traditional vs. modern techniques. I am not knowledgeable enough to go there, nor do I want to. lol
Traditional has been more difficult, as a beginner, to wrap my head around. Plus I own no books, traditional nor modern. I do have a desire to learn traditional techniques but have no resources for it. I've learned everything I've known thus far on AW and it seems there is way more info on modern as opposed to traditional. The only member I know of who practices traditional is Tsmall. I just started looking on the traditional thread tucked away in 'other astrology.'
I will keep what you say in mind, as I do want to learn the foundations of astrology.
Well thanks for that Princess V, but I'm sure/hope you see that there are other members here who practice traditional astrology too? Um, like Omnisphericus who started this thread... The traditional forum here has quite a bit of information already, and one thing I have found is that if you post a question there about a method, or a term you don't understand, plenty of people here are willing to help you with it.
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  #40  
Unread 01-28-2013, 09:05 PM
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Re: Firdaria

Quote:
p.s. TSmall, I think Valens used a slightly different Firdaria structure, just for the Hellenists among us. I could be wrong but I thought I seen a different method applied than here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
byjove, yes. Hellenistic astrology does use something slightly different, called zodiacal releasing. Very similar in concept though.
He probably refers on Decennials?
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  #41  
Unread 01-28-2013, 09:19 PM
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Re: Firdaria

I see the value in observing the planetary periods for a big picture of life phases, but the sub-planetary periods don't look that useful when compared to transits, progressions, directions, ect.
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  #42  
Unread 01-28-2013, 09:26 PM
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Re: Firdaria

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He probably refers on Decennials?
Yes that too.
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Unread 01-28-2013, 11:17 PM
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Re: Firdaria

A reminder to all. This is the Traditional Forum and replies and postings are to be respectful of traditional Astrology. Please feel free to post modern techniques elsewhere on the forum. No where in the forum is the attempt to discredit one form over the other one allowed.

Off topic posts and those of who is the better astrologer have and will continue to be deleted.

TK
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  #44  
Unread 01-28-2013, 11:34 PM
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Re: Firdaria

“Time-lord systems, break up a person’s life into specific sections or chapters that are each ruled by one of the seven traditional planets

Nature of planet and its condition in a natal chart determines how well the period will go for the native when that planet becomes activated at various points in life. 9th century Muslim astrologer Abu Ma’shar appears to be the principal source for Firdaria, outlining this time-lord system in 'On Solar Revolutions' - Seven stars, and the Ascending and Descending Nodes, have certain determinate times: each star administers to the native in accordance with its proper firdar....”



“...The firdar of the Sun is 10 years
Aphrodite, 8
Hermes, 13
the Moon, 9
Kronos, 11
Zeus 12
Ares, 7
of the Ascending Node, 3
of the Descending Node 2
– altogether, they are 75.

In the case of a diurnal nativity the Sun takes the governorship of the first firdar, whether it should be present, then Aphrodite, then Hermes, then the Moon, then Kronos, in accordance with the order of their zones.

In the case of nocturnal nativities, the Moon takes the first firdar, then Kronos, then Zeus, then Ares, in accordance with the prior order....” source: Abu Ma’shar, On Solar Revolutions, part 2, trans. Robert Schmidt, The Phaser Foundation, Cumberland, MD, 1999, pg. 42.


“.....Firdaria commence with Sun or Moon depending on whether it's a day or night chart,

then each planet is assigned a number of years.

Ancient traditions of astrology employed time-lord systems first in any delineation because they provide information about broad spans of time, when specific planets will be activated during exact periods in the life, for better or worse. Transits are then used as the very last line in predictive work to act as triggers, or as more precise timing indicators.

This differs considerably from modern prediction approaches which employ transits as the initial and primary means of forecasting....”



Firdaria: A Medieval Time Lord System
article by Chris Brennan
http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2...e-lord-system/


The Firdar
by Steven Birchfield A.M.A.
http://www.astrologiamedieval.com/firdaria.htm
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  #45  
Unread 01-29-2013, 11:32 AM
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Re: Firdaria

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I see the value in observing the planetary periods for a big picture of life phases, but the sub-planetary periods don't look that useful when compared to transits, progressions, directions, ect.
Hmm I'd say give it a shot...my happiest times of my life where when the Sun and Jupiter were sub-rulers, which just happen to be the best-placed planets in my natal chart. I had a terrible delay in studying abroad for college one year...I notice now that Saturn ruled that year. The next year I received financial assistance 'out of the blue' which enabled me to travel - Jupiter was the sub-ruler, including all the time abroad. If I have an OK grasp on interpreting it, I think it matches my life well. There were sudden changes which progressions and transits never showed and I never forgot that.
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  #46  
Unread 01-29-2013, 12:54 PM
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Re: Firdaria

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...my happiest times of my life where when the Sun and Jupiter were sub-rulers, which just happen to be the best-placed planets in my natal chart.
The most fortunate period for me (materialistically) was during the Jupiter/Sun period. Jupiter is on my MC and sun is in the 5th house. I got a windfall in cash. I was sent on job assignment far away from my manager and the work was actually fun. The place had a lot of new and interesting things to do. Strangers walked up to me and started talking to me like they have known me all their lives. However, the adventure was only a vacation from my ongoing concern that my life is headed in thew wrong direction. Furthermore, this fortunate period was only about 1/4 of the entire jupiter/sun period. The other 3/4 was misery.
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Unread 01-29-2013, 01:10 PM
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Re: Firdaria

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Ancient traditions of astrology employed time-lord systems first in any delineation because they provide information about broad spans of time, when specific planets will be activated during exact periods in the life, for better or worse. Transits are then used as the very last line in predictive work to act as triggers, or as more precise timing indicators.
It appears the firdaria is based on the synodic cycles between transiting planets and their natal position (ie transiting mars to natal mars). These occur roughly the same time in life for everyone. However, it doesn't consider cycles between different planets, which people are born into at different times. Therefore, firdaria is a simplified way to describe a subset of transits occurring in one's life. A more comprehensive transit analysis is necessary to determine if the potential of firdaria will be fulfilled or trumped by more significant transit cycles.
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  #48  
Unread 01-30-2013, 11:38 PM
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Re: Firdaria

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Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
Well thanks for that Princess V, but I'm sure/hope you see that there are other members here who practice traditional astrology too? Um, like Omnisphericus who started this thread... The traditional forum here has quite a bit of information already, and one thing I have found is that if you post a question there about a method, or a term you don't understand, plenty of people here are willing to help you with it.
I meant that I have interacted with on this forum.
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  #49  
Unread 01-31-2013, 12:39 AM
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Re: Firdaria

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Originally Posted by !4C View Post
It appears the firdaria is based on the synodic cycles between transiting planets and their natal position (ie transiting mars to natal mars). These occur roughly the same time in life for everyone. However, it doesn't consider cycles between different planets, which people are born into at different times. Therefore, firdaria is a simplified way to describe a subset of transits occurring in one's life. A more comprehensive transit analysis is necessary to determine if the potential of firdaria will be fulfilled or trumped by more significant transit cycles.
Remember that Firdaria are Medieval and not considered solely in isolation but in tandem with other Medieval techniques as illustrated by Omnisphericus

Prior to Medieval times, Ancient Hellenistic astrologers used SEVERAL Time Lord Systems that included for example, Zodiacal Releasing
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Unread 02-04-2013, 02:50 AM
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Re: Firdaria

Are relocation charts ever used for interpretation in the firdaria method? My guess is no, but I thought I would ask.
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