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Planetary returns Specific for Venus, Mercury, Mars return charts, just as in the Solar/Lunar charts techniques, not as transits to the natal chart. Also includes Lilith returns.


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Unread 04-14-2017, 01:55 AM
Tla26 Tla26 is offline
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Your First Saturn Return

For those who have had their first Saturn return, how would you personally describe it?

I've started mine. I personally feel that I started it the minute that Saturn hit the house my natal Saturn was in. So far I've been forced to come to terms with childhood abuse in all forms that I hadn't dealt with, an abusive ex who, an authority figure abuse his power to try to brainwash and seduce me, prescription drug addiction, confronting people for the first time ever, losing like all my friends (who were never friends; just ppl to have a good time with. Not a loss--a lesson), and fighting with loved ones.

These things have broken me down and forced me to change for the better. But technically my Saturn return lasts until 2020. So, what do you look at to know what stuff to expect? Is it hell from start to finish?

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Unread 04-14-2017, 06:56 PM
NRodin NRodin is offline
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Re: Your First Saturn Return

I'm the worst person to reply since I haven't experienced this yet, but I have seen many other peoples' SR's, and they look pretty rough. My brother, sister, and father are all going through theirs right now, and my brother's revolved around finances, my sister's revolves around childhood/children related issues, particularly beliefs (Saturn in Sagittarius). On the bright side though, my dad is going through his, and it almost seems like he's having a completely different kind of return, as in his first saturn return he had my siblings and my parents likely were going through crazy relational issues, especially concerning the bad sides of Sagittarius (luck, gambling, resisting negativity inauthentically), but now his financial situation is the best it's ever been and he's likely going to be leaving his job that he's had for over 40 years that has turned into a terrible place, where he is planning on going somewhere that will be far less work, but he'll be making far more due to his old company paying out his pension he accumulated etc.

Anyways...the point that I want to get across to people is that I really do think that your Saturn Return can be the worst time of your life IF you're unprepared, but if you prepare and actively choose to work on your faults, I think it can be an incredibly prosperous period where you can align everything in your life. In my dad's case, it just seems like he has worked so hard that his problem is the people around him, and his life's structure is actually really good, and Saturn is actually allowing hard work to yield results in a way usually doesn't happen.

Like I said, I have had my Saturn Return, which is why I usually never write about it, but I have this feeling that if you temper your ego (as Saturn is the enemy of Sun/Ego) then you can move on and do some hard work that needs to be done to feel stable in life.

My best advice is to forge a positive relationship with working hard, as you have to work during this period. Everyone I know who uses drugs or distraction to get away from Saturn really end up suffering, so try not to do that as it will bite you in the butt really hard in your 30's and 40's.

Good Luck!

P.S. if you want any more info on your detailed chart I'd be happy to send you any info tailored to your chart.
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Last edited by NRodin; 04-14-2017 at 06:59 PM.
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  #3  
Unread 04-15-2017, 04:30 PM
Tla26 Tla26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRodin View Post
I'm the worst person to reply since I haven't experienced this yet, but I have seen many other peoples' SR's, and they look pretty rough. My brother, sister, and father are all going through theirs right now, and my brother's revolved around finances, my sister's revolves around childhood/children related issues, particularly beliefs (Saturn in Sagittarius). On the bright side though, my dad is going through his, and it almost seems like he's having a completely different kind of return, as in his first saturn return he had my siblings and my parents likely were going through crazy relational issues, especially concerning the bad sides of Sagittarius (luck, gambling, resisting negativity inauthentically), but now his financial situation is the best it's ever been and he's likely going to be leaving his job that he's had for over 40 years that has turned into a terrible place, where he is planning on going somewhere that will be far less work, but he'll be making far more due to his old company paying out his pension he accumulated etc.

Anyways...the point that I want to get across to people is that I really do think that your Saturn Return can be the worst time of your life IF you're unprepared, but if you prepare and actively choose to work on your faults, I think it can be an incredibly prosperous period where you can align everything in your life. In my dad's case, it just seems like he has worked so hard that his problem is the people around him, and his life's structure is actually really good, and Saturn is actually allowing hard work to yield results in a way usually doesn't happen.

Like I said, I have had my Saturn Return, which is why I usually never write about it, but I have this feeling that if you temper your ego (as Saturn is the enemy of Sun/Ego) then you can move on and do some hard work that needs to be done to feel stable in life.

My best advice is to forge a positive relationship with working hard, as you have to work during this period. Everyone I know who uses drugs or distraction to get away from Saturn really end up suffering, so try not to do that as it will bite you in the butt really hard in your 30's and 40's.

Good Luck!

P.S. if you want any more info on your detailed chart I'd be happy to send you any info tailored to your chart.
Thanks so much for the info--so helpful! I feel a lot more at ease now. Daren returns seem so scary at first! Again, thank you!
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Unread 04-15-2017, 07:36 PM
NRodin NRodin is offline
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Re: Your First Saturn Return

[QUOTE]Originally Posted by NRodin View Post
I'm the worst person to reply since I haven't experienced this yet, but I have seen many other peoples' SR's, and they look pretty rough. My brother, sister, and father are all going through theirs right now, and my brother's revolved around finances, my sister's revolves around childhood/children related issues, particularly beliefs (Saturn in Sagittarius). On the bright side though, my dad is going through his, and it almost seems like he's having a completely different kind of return, as in his first saturn return he had my siblings and my parents likely were going through crazy relational issues, especially concerning the bad sides of Sagittarius (luck, gambling, resisting negativity inauthentically), but now his financial situation is the best it's ever been and he's likely going to be leaving his job that he's had for over 40 years that has turned into a terrible place, where he is planning on going somewhere that will be far less work, but he'll be making far more due to his old company paying out his pension he accumulated etc.

Anyways...the point that I want to get across to people is that I really do think that your Saturn Return can be the worst time of your life IF you're unprepared, but if you prepare and actively choose to work on your faults, I think it can be an incredibly prosperous period where you can align everything in your life. In my dad's case, it just seems like he has worked so hard that his problem is the people around him, and his life's structure is actually really good, and Saturn is actually allowing hard work to yield results in a way usually doesn't happen.

Like I said, I have had my Saturn Return, which is why I usually never write about it, but I have this feeling that if you temper your ego (as Saturn is the enemy of Sun/Ego) then you can move on and do some hard work that needs to be done to feel stable in life.

My best advice is to forge a positive relationship with working hard, as you have to work during this period. Everyone I know who uses drugs or distraction to get away from Saturn really end up suffering, so try not to do that as it will bite you in the butt really hard in your 30's and 40's.

Good Luck!

P.S. if you want any more info on your detailed chart I'd be happy to send you any info tailored to your chart.
Thanks so much for the info--so helpful! I feel a lot more at ease now. Daren returns seem so scary at first! Again, thank you!/QUOTE]
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Unread 04-15-2017, 07:37 PM
NRodin NRodin is offline
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Re: Your First Saturn Return

[QUOTE=NRodin;778040]
Quote:
Originally Posted by NRodin View Post
I'm the worst person to reply since I haven't experienced this yet, but I have seen many other peoples' SR's, and they look pretty rough. My brother, sister, and father are all going through theirs right now, and my brother's revolved around finances, my sister's revolves around childhood/children related issues, particularly beliefs (Saturn in Sagittarius). On the bright side though, my dad is going through his, and it almost seems like he's having a completely different kind of return, as in his first saturn return he had my siblings and my parents likely were going through crazy relational issues, especially concerning the bad sides of Sagittarius (luck, gambling, resisting negativity inauthentically), but now his financial situation is the best it's ever been and he's likely going to be leaving his job that he's had for over 40 years that has turned into a terrible place, where he is planning on going somewhere that will be far less work, but he'll be making far more due to his old company paying out his pension he accumulated etc.

Anyways...the point that I want to get across to people is that I really do think that your Saturn Return can be the worst time of your life IF you're unprepared, but if you prepare and actively choose to work on your faults, I think it can be an incredibly prosperous period where you can align everything in your life. In my dad's case, it just seems like he has worked so hard that his problem is the people around him, and his life's structure is actually really good, and Saturn is actually allowing hard work to yield results in a way usually doesn't happen.

Like I said, I have had my Saturn Return, which is why I usually never write about it, but I have this feeling that if you temper your ego (as Saturn is the enemy of Sun/Ego) then you can move on and do some hard work that needs to be done to feel stable in life.

My best advice is to forge a positive relationship with working hard, as you have to work during this period. Everyone I know who uses drugs or distraction to get away from Saturn really end up suffering, so try not to do that as it will bite you in the butt really hard in your 30's and 40's.

Good Luck!

P.S. if you want any more info on your detailed chart I'd be happy to send you any info tailored to your chart.
Thanks so much for the info--so helpful! I feel a lot more at ease now. Daren returns seem so scary at first! Again, thank you!/QUOTE]
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  #6  
Unread 04-15-2017, 07:40 PM
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Re: Your First Saturn Return

Is there such thing a Saturn Square Return?

Because I haven't lived long enough to experience my Saturn return, unfortunately.
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Unread 04-15-2017, 07:53 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Your First Saturn Return

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tla26 View Post
For those who have had their first Saturn return, how would you personally describe it?

I've started mine. I personally feel that I started it the minute that Saturn hit the house my natal Saturn was in. So far I've been forced to come to terms with childhood abuse in all forms that I hadn't dealt with, an abusive ex who, an authority figure abuse his power to try to brainwash and seduce me, prescription drug addiction, confronting people for the first time ever, losing like all my friends (who were never friends; just ppl to have a good time with. Not a loss--a lesson), and fighting with loved ones.

These things have broken me down and forced me to change for the better. But technically my Saturn return lasts until 2020. So, what do you look at to know what stuff to expect? Is it hell from start to finish?
Is your Saturn in Capricorn natally?

This new crop of young adults, experiencing their first Saturn Returns, have a whopper of a return, as they typically have Saturn/Uranus/Neptune together in Capricorn. So it is much more complicated than most.
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Unread 04-15-2017, 07:56 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: Your First Saturn Return

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Is there such thing a Saturn Square Return?

Because I haven't lived long enough to experience my Saturn return, unfortunately.
YES. The Saturn Cycle is very important to individual development:


http://astrodharma.org/2013/02/three-cycles-of-saturn/

Three Cycles of Saturn: Becoming an individuated emissary of the Absolute

First Breath: (Saturn conjunct Saturn) Knot of destiny defined.

Age 7: (Saturn Square Saturn) Child learns to discern between right and wrong, fantasy and reality, and learns the basic rules and the consequences of breaking them. Development of depth perception needed to cross the road unaided. First testing of boundaries and the status quo.

Age 14: (Saturn Opposition Saturn) The dawning of a provisionally separate sense of self. First stirrings of healthy opposition to authority (puberty) and the creation of personal rules.

Age 21: (Saturn Square Saturn) Learning to deal with the world in its own terms and become accountable. Seeds of dissatisfaction birth new goals.

Age 29: First Saturn Return. This is the threshold of astrological adulthood. Every planet in your chart has now been squared, opposed and conjoined by Saturn, enabling you to become free of indiscriminate rebellion against – or robotic allegiance to – one’s social and familial conditioning. The provisional sense of self yields to a degree of sovereign direction and destiny. This culminating cycle of individuation often requires a painful severance from previously treasured work, roles and relationships that are discovered to be based on unconscious conditioning, not sovereign choice.
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Unread 04-22-2017, 08:50 PM
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Re: Your First Saturn Return

My first Saturn return started in November and admittedly I'm not sure how long the effects of it are supposed to last as when it first happened, things were pretty okay and quiet but a month later was when **** really hit the fan in my life

Saturn is technically in my second house but it's so close to the cusp of my third that I'm pretty sure that's most of what it impacted. I actually went out of my way around that time to be extra good with my money to make sure I don't run into any hard financial lessons (which I've had to deal with in the past) and nothing happened. However, communication and being direct with communication became a massively unexpected lesson I've been needing to learn and am still learning. Understanding your Saturn return is one of the few times when i will say it's better to go by Whole Signs as that seems to be more reflective of what house it'll actually effect.

I ended up cutting a few people out of my life because the strain was so heavy on me. I has gone through a very quick, slightly unexpected break up the month prior of a four year relationship(looking back now, the reason why I hit the last straw was because communication was so bad that he was outright avoiding me!!), And that kind of started a trail of burning Bridges with other people I was experiencing this with.

It made me take a step back and think of how authentic a lot of my connections were. Was I holding onto bonds with people because of convenience or because of a sense of duty or was I actually holding onto them because they enriched my life and provided me with a better sense of security and understanding of both my life and myself.

I just found myself at a breaking point. There were people who were overstimulating me with how the conversed. A lot of spamming and oppressive communication that made me feel heavily bound to them and was forcing me to continually put my own needs and thoughts aside to cater to them (both Saturn and Uranus square my Sun so HEH). And then there were people who I literally heard nothing from unless they needed something from me. But the common thread with everyone was that the communication wasn't authentic. It was selfish and one sided. It was causing me to actively put aside my own needs to cater to their own thinkings and interests and, well, I guess Saturn made me realize I had enough.

Ultimately, none of these break offs were surprising. They were strained connections for a while, and admittedly burned bridges I saw coming from miles and miles away. It was just difficult for me up until that point to take the initiative to draw a clear and unwavering line. My Saturn squaring my Sun up until that point kind of made me loyal to a fault. My sense of self was heavily wrapped up in feeling like I "owed" people everything because I felt very alone and had low self-esteem growing up. Post Saturn return I just.. kind of had a self-esteem blow up It probably helped that Jupiter had also recently passed over my Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury AND was conjunct my Ascendant by the time this had happened so yeah, my sense of self became rather intensely defined, including what I wanted, needed and how/where I wanted to direct my energies.

I'm still dealing with the remaining strings of the fall outs (A lot of learning that I need to stand my ground and be unyielding in my demands), but I definitely agree that your SR will be easier if you're doing the work before hand. If you're constantly working on self-improvement and self-awareness, chances are whatever your SR will bring you won't be that big of a surprise. It's not to say it'll be easy, but it does mean that once it happens, it'll be easier for you to figure out what's going on and bounce back.

I've had friends who have had VERT brutal SRs. One friend has their Saturn in their (whole sign) 12H in scorpio/11H. That year they struggled aggressively with alcoholism. The people they surrounded themselves with were in two camps. There were those who actively enabled this behavior and there were those who were trying to help him get on the right track. Well. His Saturn return came in 3 attacks. Once when it was direct in scorpio, once when it went retrograde (which is his natal station) and the last when it went direct again. I didn't look back to the previous passes but I'm pretty sure they fall in line with the times he tried to stop cold turkey. The friends who wanted to help him were highly encouraging, while the second camp just slowly helped him slip back into his habits because "One Beer Can't Hurt". Well, I'm here to say that this third pass of his Saturn was absolutely RUTHLESS. He ended up getting a DUI. He managed to walk away with a slap on the wrist essentially since it was his first offense. He started counseling but didn't keep up. Six months later? He got a second DUI. The police were immediately camped outside of the bar he was at and the cop who arrested him that night? The same cop that got him the fist time. He's now facing charges and jail time.

So I guess these are two rather extreme camps for how a Saturn return can crop up. I think Saturn returns definitely come with a warning so it's better to heed them when they come. Sometimes they can manifest in subtle ways while others it can be pretty in your face flashing red lights.
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Unread 04-23-2017, 06:20 PM
Tla26 Tla26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistandshout View Post
My first Saturn return started in November and admittedly I'm not sure how long the effects of it are supposed to last as when it first happened, things were pretty okay and quiet but a month later was when **** really hit the fan in my life

Saturn is technically in my second house but it's so close to the cusp of my third that I'm pretty sure that's most of what it impacted. I actually went out of my way around that time to be extra good with my money to make sure I don't run into any hard financial lessons (which I've had to deal with in the past) and nothing happened. However, communication and being direct with communication became a massively unexpected lesson I've been needing to learn and am still learning. Understanding your Saturn return is one of the few times when i will say it's better to go by Whole Signs as that seems to be more reflective of what house it'll actually effect.

I ended up cutting a few people out of my life because the strain was so heavy on me. I has gone through a very quick, slightly unexpected break up the month prior of a four year relationship(looking back now, the reason why I hit the last straw was because communication was so bad that he was outright avoiding me!!), And that kind of started a trail of burning Bridges with other people I was experiencing this with.

It made me take a step back and think of how authentic a lot of my connections were. Was I holding onto bonds with people because of convenience or because of a sense of duty or was I actually holding onto them because they enriched my life and provided me with a better sense of security and understanding of both my life and myself.

I just found myself at a breaking point. There were people who were overstimulating me with how the conversed. A lot of spamming and oppressive communication that made me feel heavily bound to them and was forcing me to continually put my own needs and thoughts aside to cater to them (both Saturn and Uranus square my Sun so HEH). And then there were people who I literally heard nothing from unless they needed something from me. But the common thread with everyone was that the communication wasn't authentic. It was selfish and one sided. It was causing me to actively put aside my own needs to cater to their own thinkings and interests and, well, I guess Saturn made me realize I had enough.

Ultimately, none of these break offs were surprising. They were strained connections for a while, and admittedly burned bridges I saw coming from miles and miles away. It was just difficult for me up until that point to take the initiative to draw a clear and unwavering line. My Saturn squaring my Sun up until that point kind of made me loyal to a fault. My sense of self was heavily wrapped up in feeling like I "owed" people everything because I felt very alone and had low self-esteem growing up. Post Saturn return I just.. kind of had a self-esteem blow up It probably helped that Jupiter had also recently passed over my Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury AND was conjunct my Ascendant by the time this had happened so yeah, my sense of self became rather intensely defined, including what I wanted, needed and how/where I wanted to direct my energies.

I'm still dealing with the remaining strings of the fall outs (A lot of learning that I need to stand my ground and be unyielding in my demands), but I definitely agree that your SR will be easier if you're doing the work before hand. If you're constantly working on self-improvement and self-awareness, chances are whatever your SR will bring you won't be that big of a surprise. It's not to say it'll be easy, but it does mean that once it happens, it'll be easier for you to figure out what's going on and bounce back.

I've had friends who have had VERT brutal SRs. One friend has their Saturn in their (whole sign) 12H in scorpio/11H. That year they struggled aggressively with alcoholism. The people they surrounded themselves with were in two camps. There were those who actively enabled this behavior and there were those who were trying to help him get on the right track. Well. His Saturn return came in 3 attacks. Once when it was direct in scorpio, once when it went retrograde (which is his natal station) and the last when it went direct again. I didn't look back to the previous passes but I'm pretty sure they fall in line with the times he tried to stop cold turkey. The friends who wanted to help him were highly encouraging, while the second camp just slowly helped him slip back into his habits because "One Beer Can't Hurt". Well, I'm here to say that this third pass of his Saturn was absolutely RUTHLESS. He ended up getting a DUI. He managed to walk away with a slap on the wrist essentially since it was his first offense. He started counseling but didn't keep up. Six months later? He got a second DUI. The police were immediately camped outside of the bar he was at and the cop who arrested him that night? The same cop that got him the fist time. He's now facing charges and jail time.

So I guess these are two rather extreme camps for how a Saturn return can crop up. I think Saturn returns definitely come with a warning so it's better to heed them when they come. Sometimes they can manifest in subtle ways while others it can be pretty in your face flashing red lights.
Thank you for such a deep, detailed response! So relatable and helped me to understand what's going on. I appreciate your help so much.
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