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  #1  
Unread 01-11-2020, 07:56 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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What is an astrological planet?

Does anyone have a working definition?

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  #2  
Unread 01-11-2020, 11:26 PM
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Re: What is an astrological planet?

Every planet that is used astrologically.

That narrows it down.
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  #3  
Unread 01-12-2020, 03:06 AM
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Re: What is an astrological planet?

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Every planet that is used astrologically.

That narrows it down.
"An astrological planet is any planet that is used astrologically." is not a definition. It's a tautology.
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  #4  
Unread 01-12-2020, 03:34 AM
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Re: What is an astrological planet?

This definition of planet from the International Astrological Union may be of interest:

"(1) A planet [1] is a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (c) has cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit."

Nothing naked-eye about it. Magnitude is irrelevant. The IAU definition differentiates planets from asteroids, comets, and assorted space junk. The IAU definition is largely based upon a planet's gravitational properties. Which is how planets in the 18th century onwards were predicted, because the orbit of a known planet made sense only if a further-out planet exerted a gravitational pull.

Note that mathematical modeling of orbits was worked on prior to the development of modern astrology. (Gauss, 1777-1855, on the "rediscovery" of Ceres.)

Galileo actually observed Neptune through a telescope in 1613, but did not recognize it as a planet, probably due to Neptune's slow orbital period of 165 years.

Just now, both astronomers and astrologers are working out the dwarf planet thing, which was an issue only around 2006 when the IAU voted on a separate dwarf planet category. Pluto clearly operates as an astrological planet in modern astrology, independently of how scientists classify it.

So in a horoscope, what does a planet do? Any planet Does it describe a big area of human life? Can we use it reliably in predictive work? How does it fare as a house cusp ruler (lord)?
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Unread 01-12-2020, 03:48 AM
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Smile Re: What is an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Does anyone have a working definition?
First, a statement of opinion: ANY transiting indicator along the Ecliptic that is interpreted by an astrologer as having significant astrological influence within the Chart as it moves through the Signs, has astrological meaning. That includes the measured points, like the Lines of Celestial Longitude which run through the center of physical, Celestial objects, and intersect the Ecliptic; the Nodes; the Age-indicator; and, even the Angles if you hold the Signs in place and track their movement through the Signs.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

The modern-day definition of a "planet" has an astronomical definition which is essentially Heliocentric, and is about a spherical, Celestial object that orbits the Sun. That includes "dwarf planets", which don't dominate the area their orbits are in, but are still "planets", as their label clearly defines them.

There's some confusion caused by the ancient meaning of "planet" as "a light viewed from Earth that 'wanders' across the sky relative to the stars".

If you stick with that ancient definition, you end up with the awkward contention that "the Earth is not a planet", and that the Moon and Sun ARE planets, which runs counter to what's now the generally accepted meaning of "planet" in today's world.

So, a modern-day definition of an astrological planet, is: "An astronomical planet, including the dwarf planets, but not including the Moon and Sun, which is deemed by an individual astrologer to be of enough astrological influence to be included in an astrological Chart."

Traditionalistic astrologers have a different definition for "an astrological planet", which is Geocentrically based on an entirely motionless Earth, requires naked eye recognition as a "wanderer", per the ancient terminology, and includes only the Sun, the Moon, and Mercury through to Saturn.

Last edited by david starling; 01-12-2020 at 05:33 AM.
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  #6  
Unread 01-12-2020, 07:21 AM
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Re: What is an astrological planet?

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
This definition of planet from the International Astrological Union may be of interest:

"(1) A planet [1] is a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (c) has cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit."

Nothing naked-eye about it. Magnitude is irrelevant. The IAU definition differentiates planets from asteroids, comets, and assorted space junk. The IAU definition is largely based upon a planet's gravitational properties. Which is how planets in the 18th century onwards were predicted, because the orbit of a known planet made sense only if a further-out planet exerted a gravitational pull.

Note that mathematical modeling of orbits was worked on prior to the development of modern astrology. (Gauss, 1777-1855, on the "rediscovery" of Ceres.)

Galileo actually observed Neptune through a telescope in 1613, but did not recognize it as a planet, probably due to Neptune's slow orbital period of 165 years.

Just now, both astronomers and astrologers are working out the dwarf planet thing, which was an issue only around 2006 when the IAU voted on a separate dwarf planet category. Pluto clearly operates as an astrological planet in modern astrology, independently of how scientists classify it.

So in a horoscope, what does a planet do? Any planet Does it describe a big area of human life? Can we use it reliably in predictive work? How does it fare as a house cusp ruler (lord)?
What is your definition of an astrological planet that includes Pluto but excludes Ceres, Eris and other dwarf planets?
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  #7  
Unread 01-12-2020, 07:27 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: What is an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
First, a statement of opinion: ANY transiting indicator along the Ecliptic that is interpreted by an astrologer as having significant astrological influence within the Chart as it moves through the Signs, has astrological meaning. That includes the measured points, like the Lines of Celestial Longitude which run through the center of physical, Celestial objects, and intersect the Ecliptic; the Nodes; the Age-indicator; and, even the Angles if you hold the Signs in place and track their movement through the Signs.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

The modern-day definition of a "planet" has an astronomical definition which is essentially Heliocentric, and is about a spherical, Celestial object that orbits the Sun. That includes "dwarf planets", which don't dominate the area their orbits are in, but are still "planets", as their label clearly defines them.

There's some confusion caused by the ancient meaning of "planet" as "a light viewed from Earth that 'wanders' across the sky relative to the stars".

If you stick with that ancient definition, you end up with the awkward contention that "the Earth is not a planet", and that the Moon and Sun ARE planets, which runs counter to what's now the generally accepted meaning of "planet" in today's world.

So, a modern-day definition of an astrological planet, is: "An astronomical planet, including the dwarf planets, but not including the Moon and Sun, which is deemed by an individual astrologer to be of enough astrological influence to be included in an astrological Chart."

Traditionalistic astrologers have a different definition for "an astrological planet", which is Geocentrically based on an entirely motionless Earth, requires naked eye recognition as a "wanderer", per the ancient terminology, and includes only the Sun, the Moon, and Mercury through to Saturn.
Some (Most?) Modern astrologers retain the definition, though not all ancient astronomers/astrologers included the luminaries with the five, some like Ptolemy regarded them as separate most of the time. They are stars and planets (wandering stars) in my opinion though.
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  #8  
Unread 01-12-2020, 07:31 AM
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Smile Re: What is an astrological planet?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post

So, a modern-day definition of an astrological planet, is: "An astronomical planet, including the dwarf planets, but not including the Moon and Sun, which is deemed by an INDIVIDUAL astrologer to be of enough astrological influence to be included in an astrological Chart."
Here's the answer to your question.
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  #9  
Unread 01-12-2020, 07:31 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: What is an astrological planet?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Here's the answer to your question.
That is a tautology, not a reasonable definition as muchacho pointed out.
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  #10  
Unread 01-12-2020, 07:46 AM
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Re: What is an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

That is a tautology, not a reasonable definition as muchacho pointed out.
i.e.

Quote:
Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
"


An astrological planet is any planet that is used astrologically." is not a definition.

It's a tautology.
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Unread 01-12-2020, 07:51 AM
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Smile Re: What is an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
That is a tautology, not a reasonable definition as muchacho pointed out.
What don't you understand about it?

Modernistic astrologers choose which planets to use, including the dwarf planets. Each individual has a personal reason for incorporating dwarf planets into the Chart. It's not lock-step like in Traditionalistic astrology.
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  #12  
Unread 01-12-2020, 08:02 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: What is an astrological planet?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
What don't you understand about it?

Modernistic astrologers choose which planets to use, including the dwarf planets. Each individual has a personal reason for incorporating dwarf planets into the Chart. It's not lock-step like in Traditionalistic astrology.
Personal astronomical reasons? Like what?
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  #13  
Unread 01-12-2020, 08:02 AM
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Re: What is an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post


What don't you understand about it?

Modernistic astrologers choose which planets to use, including the dwarf planets. Each individual has a personal reason for incorporating dwarf planets into the Chart. It's not lock-step like in Traditionalistic astrology
.
Tautologies and Fallacies.
The compound statements (or propositions)
which are true for any truth value of their components
are called “tautologies”.
For example “p ∨ ~ p” is a tautology, p being any logical statement.
For example, “p ∧ ~ p” is a fallacy, p being any logical statement
and so
answer the following
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

What is
your definition of an astrological planet that includes Pluto but excludes Ceres,
Eris and other dwarf planets?
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Last edited by JUPITERASC; 01-12-2020 at 08:14 AM.
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  #14  
Unread 01-12-2020, 09:21 AM
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Smile Re: What is an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Tautologies and Fallacies.
The compound statements (or propositions)
which are true for any truth value of their components
are called “tautologies”.
For example “p ∨ ~ p” is a tautology, p being any logical statement.
For example, “p ∧ ~ p” is a fallacy, p being any logical statement
and so
answer the following
In my own case, P!uto is the only one of them that fits a rate of motion pattern that I use to assign rulerships in 12/12.
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Unread 01-12-2020, 09:28 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: What is an astrological planet?

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Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
"An astrological planet is any planet that is used astrologically." is not a definition. It's a tautology.
An astrological planet is any planet deemed by an astrologer to have a significant influence in the Charts used by that particular astrologer. It's the astrologers who make them "astrological" , not the planets making themselves astrological.
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  #16  
Unread 01-12-2020, 09:42 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: What is an astrological planet?

Although it seems to be changing somewhat, most tropical, Modernistic astrologers consider only one star to be astrological, meaning of significant influence in the Chart itself--the Sun.
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  #17  
Unread 01-12-2020, 09:43 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: What is an astrological planet?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
An astrological planet is any planet deemed by an astrologer to have a significant influence in the Charts used by that particular astrologer. It's the astrologers who make them "astrological" , not the planets making themselves astrological.
Tea leaves.
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  #18  
Unread 01-12-2020, 09:46 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: What is an astrological planet?

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Tea leaves.
Psychic intuition.
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  #19  
Unread 01-12-2020, 09:48 AM
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Smile Re: What is an astrological planet?

Psychic intuition played a large role in the descriptions by ancient astrologers of the nature of the fixed stars.
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Unread 01-12-2020, 09:48 AM
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Re: What is an astrological planet?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Psychic intuition played a large role in the descriptions by ancient astrologers of the nature of the fixed stars.
No they didn't. Aldebaran and Antares have the nature of Mars, because they appear red. I give a few other examples here - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...64&postcount=4
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  #21  
Unread 01-12-2020, 09:49 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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This is a case of I.Q. denigrating E.Q.
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  #22  
Unread 01-12-2020, 09:50 AM
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Smile Re: What is an astrological planet?

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
No they didn't. Aldebaran and Antares have the nature of Mars, because they appear red. I give a few other examples here - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...64&postcount=4
Antares means anti-Mars.
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  #23  
Unread 01-12-2020, 09:51 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: What is an astrological planet?

How about Algol and Regulus?
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  #24  
Unread 01-12-2020, 09:54 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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So, any and all red stars are just like Mars? No specific differences?
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Unread 01-12-2020, 09:55 AM
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Smile Re: What is an astrological planet?

I'm saying intuition played a large role, along with physical characteristics.
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