I would just like to know what is the official birth chart of India
is it
1) August 15, 12.00am, New Delhi, India 1947
or
2) January 26, 10.15am, New Delhi, India 1950
Which one?
India won the cricket world cup in 1983 and India was born in chineese year pig and it in 1983 in was the year of pig!, India won that historical test series in the West Indies in 1971, and that too was in the year of pig, India came in the world cup final in 2003, and that was the year of horse I think, It was being supported by the year of pig.
India got its indapendence in 1947.
But a lot of people say the official birth chart of India in the 1950 one, the Indian cricket team won a lot of major test and odi tournements with the chineese animal being supported by the chineese year of 1950.
Sorry if you are not into cricket, has you see the Indian nation is mad with the sport cricket.
India is largly known for its IT expertise, material output, and too poverty.
India's economy is growing, bollywood is one of the biggest movie industries in the world.
I am stuck, which one of the two is the official birth chart of India?
Comments would be appriciated.
Many thanks
Amitkumar
The only correct time is that of 12:30 am New Delhi, India, August 15, 1947.
Do you know why one must add a half hour to New Delhi time?
It's because that region of India uses a split time zone and the actual time in New Delhi in the buildings considered to be the hub of India's govt is a half hour fast.
When dealing with a Nation or [and sometimes, organizations] that is
pre-determined and agreed upon by a good sized plurality of the individuals involved as to a specific date one is usually going to get a birth time of mid-night that was also a matter of proposal and mutual agreement.
This is in fact what was agreed upon and recognized. As the whole orientation to time was also agreed to as being that of Greenwich Time one must adhere to what is actually recognized as mid-night, aka zero hour, the first instant of August 15th, 1947. as recognized objectively from an impersonal position at Greenwich.
The another important reason as to why it is even imperative that one does use this proper technique. The great 20th century astrologer, Dane Rudhyar, noted that all cycles of orbits by the Planets, Moon et al, that are used for calculating aspects are a series of a progression of aspects. From New Moon to Full Moon, for example is half of a complete cycle and in that first half cycle in which the Moon is moving away, apart from, the Sun it is in an "Involutionary Hemi-cycle",l called that by Rudhyar because as he wrote: "...because a spiritual potentiality or karmic necessity
involves or incorporates itself into matter." The second half, or waning part of the Moons cycle is called the "Devolutionary Hemi-cycle." [and also wrote that there is a polar complement to Devolution and that it is Evolution. The change from Involution to Devolution is cyclic, continuous and natural...it occurs everywhere around us constantly, but the change from Devolution to Evolution requires a kind of mutation or 'quantum leap' from one level, the level of 'life', to another ~ the level of 'mind' or growth in consciousness.]
At the beginning, the 'Conjunction' is symbolically pure subjectivity, it hasn't yet moved and hasn't yet taken the least iota of light to reflect back...and that is consciousness...in it's purest and simplest form. ..and from consciousness you have identity and being.
I ONLY CAME BACK TO THIS THREAD TODAY TO UPDATE THE LINK TO THE SABIAN SYMBOLS I HAD ORIGINALLY POSTED HERE AND I NOTICED THAT I NEVER COMPLETED THE EXPLANATION ABOVE.
SO THEN...
Like the Moons' cycle from New Moon to New Moon, that which is when the moon is on the other side of the earth directly opposite the Sun. A day also begins in a way that is the same to your position at a moment when the moon is directly opposite you on the other side of the earth. That is your daily cycle. That is the true beginning of the day. You may want to bring up the practice of the Jes/Hebrews and their insistence that their day starts at Sundown. I have an answer for that. While what they are practicing is more as like starting a cycle at the Half Moon, which is exactly what it is as like to the cycle of the day. The Jews/Hebrews are permitted to observe a day as they see fit to or have a need to do so. It's in the Tanakh but I can't recall where. I came across it in one of the books on the Kabbalah I have, or have read. If you doubt me, ask a Rabbi.
I have no doubt that the chart produced for that time is the true and correct chart to use. Not only because of the knowledge given and understanding that is bestowed by Rudhyar from His studiously acquired logic and explanation but also because of what i see in the Sabian Symbols for the chart.
As I am a life long [over fifty years] student of the Edgar Cayce readings and have had a lifetime of success, verification, confirmation [and even some revelations at times...some astonishingly so] and have witnessed undeniable demonstrations of the integrity of the source of His information [the "Akhashic Records"] through the recipes, methods, prescriptions, for health matters he prescribed, or rather, recommended [and I have found his readings on yoga and meditation to be in perfect accord with the Vedic sources.] I've also had considerable success applying to a number of projects of study what knowledge of forgotten history and lessons of lost knowledges/sciences, Edgar Cayce spoke of, that I've read to date.
Because of my own more recently focused on subject of trying to ascertain the date and time of the birth of Yeshu'a ben David aka Jesus of Nazareth [for which I used the date Cayce gave and what other clues I had collected] I am most very well reacquainted with the seminal work on the Man from Naz provided by Cayce readings, the book, "Edgar Cayce's Story Of Jesus", selected and edited by Jeffrey Furst, based on the compiled readings of Edgar Cayce that were of any matter pertaining to such from the entire collection of readings that were made public [of which is about two thirds of the total number of collected readings].
Near the end of the book in the very last of the chapter titled; Summation, Several readings concerning Jesus. [and as I recall this particular reading is in at least a couple more books of or based on the Cayce material.] on page 370 of the paperback edition is published the following:
"In closing we have included this OPEN READING given on WORLD AFFAIRS at the Thirteenth Annual Congress of the Association for Research and Enlightenment, Inc. June 22, 1944, six months prior to Edgar Cayce's death.
Mrs. C.: It has been indicated through this channel that much might be given regarding what the vibrations of nations, as individuals, might mean. You will give such information concerning these vibrations and their relations to the spirit of the various nations, particularly in connection with the seven sins and twelve virtues in the human family, which will be helpful to usas an organization and as individuals in our attempt to be channels of blessing to our fellow men. You will then answer the questions which may be submitted, as I ask them:"
Edgar then spoke and for some great length. he gave a brief and basic outline of Creation and how and why Man came into being and the subsequent founding and building of nations. He then said to judge a nation by certain signs and said: "Look to the nations where the span of life has been extended from sixty to eighty-four years." which I thought I'd make mention of as for it's validating implication that the 84 year orbit by Uranus is by some occult and esoteric sources to be how long the life span, one basic, lesser yuga, lifespan...three orbits of Saturn. Seven times Twelve, or twelve orbits of Jupiter... but, I apologize for the digression... back to the matter of topic.
Cayce went on to directly state the name of a number of nations of that time and give unsolicited analyses of them stating what strengths and weaknesses the psyche of each nations citizenry had and what challenges they would be facing and did make a few rather bold and controversial predictions about their own matters and some as to any of world wide affecting actions. He also specifically identified one sin for each of the seven greatest nations of that time. Russia, America, England, France, Italy, China and India. [actually He didn't state a sin for Russia but said out of Russia would come the hope of the world, not from the Communistic or that of the Bolshevistic but rather freedom. Freedom that each man will live for his fellow man. He stated that it would take years before it could crystallize and it would be guided by its friendship with the United States.
As to the U.S Cayce said that in the application of those principles said "freedom" in those forms and manners in which the nations of the Earth have and do so measure as to such in their activities, that yes, America could surely boast, but rather it was that principle that was being forgotten when such was/is the case, and that is the Sin of America.
Edgar said that England was from whence came the ideas, not IDEALS, but ideas of being just a little bit better than the other fellow. He then stated; Ye must GROW to that in which ye will deserve to be known, deserve to receive. That has been the Sin of England.
The Sin of France was gratifying the desires of the body [which they have seemingly made an incomparable art of....IMHO...of course, ptv].
The sin of Italy was/is similar to that of Babel as Edgar made pointed ref. to Rome and their centuries of self proclaimed authorities and resultant actions/activities world wide.
that China would one day be the cradle of Christianity as applied in the lives of men [or Krishna consciousness, if you prefer the abstract in an Oriental expressed manner. ptv] He didn't really state a 'Sin" of China but did say that it had sort of saved itself by going slowly through the ages and being content to be within itself...that is until the day that it had awoken,.
recently [to that time].
Now, to the whole point of the previous... what Edgar said about India:
"Just as in India, the cradle of knowledge not applied, except within self. what is the Sin of India? SELF, and leave the 'ish' off - just self."
Yet, Cayce did state immediately afterward: "Then apply in thine own life truth....", giving the Sin of India a very minor level status of offense...certainly not of Felony Status as had been inferred, for example, as to Italy, all the more pointedly to Rome.
[and after many years of thought, contemplation on the preceding material...as i first read this particular book around 1969-70, and many years of study in yoga, the Vedas, the reading of many historical events and lives, and the personal experience I have had with the many yogis, chelas, gurus and Swamis I've met and known. I know there couldn't have been any other way for India to have been if the practices, the knowledge, in uncontaminated and pure form was to survive and be transferred via the Guruampara. OM Namah India OM Namah OM
So, now let me introduce to you the Sabian Symbol of the Ascendent of the modern nation of India, at 12:30 am New Delhi, August 15, 1947...the "WHO" India as nation, a culture, society and people is presently. [as the preceding discourse by Edgar was some three years and two months earlier. I will also show you the Sabian Symbol for the 12:00 am New Delhi time as you suggest....and I think you will see it quite easily as to how it has to be Greenwich time for such uses as this. remember that the zero hour is just as like being the Moon at the exact moment of conj. with the Sun, the New Moon. 12:00 noon, High Noon, like that as the Moon at Full Moon. this surely must have been sacred law to the ancient Hebrews, sometime during their captivity by Babylon they apparently forgot why, certainly forgot to resurrect the correct observances, as after that five hundred plus years of; "When in Babylon, doing as the Babylonians did.", as I just find it to be blatantly obvious in all their own writings on and pertaining to "Kabbalistic Astrology". I've greatly incensed a few Jewish friends by my conclusions on this, to such a degree that I am as good as banished and excluded from any sort of acknowledgement of existence except by other than in the most publicly observed meetings or encounters that require some sort of obligatory social courtesies. All I'm suggesting is that they at least extend the observances of their Sabbath another 6 hrs or so whatever the time takes from sundown on Saturday to mid-night. Currently the only sect of any religion that is practicing observing the Sabbath for the correct time period are the Seventh Day Adventists, about as nice and as wonderful a group of people as one could ever want to meet.
The Asc. for India for the chart produced by the given data is 08* Gemini 54' 29" [The M.C. is 22* Aquarius 12' 27".] that is the
9th degree of Gemini. From dane Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols, "An Astrological Mandala. The Cycle Of Transformation And Its 360 Symbolic Phases."
"
A QUIVER FILLED WITH ARROWS.
KEYNOTE: Man's aggressive relationship to natural life, as a basis for survival and conquest.
The bow and arrows represent symbolically man's ability to extend the scope of his conquest of nature and to kill enemies in order to build a larger base for the collective development of a culture and an organized society. Implied in the symbol of the arrow is the piercing of a target. The mind of man is essentially a trans-piercing power; it goes through the object toward which it is aimed. It seeks to go through and beyond the obstacles on its path, and this usually implies the destruction of the obstacle. At a higher level — as in the Zen practice of archery — the obstacle is the ego.
At this fourth stage of the fourteenth five-fold sequence of phases in the cyclic process of human existence we are shown the archetypal symbol of Man, the Conqueror. It may be a conquest of outer nature, or that of instinctual drives and of the limiting power of the ego. It is always [and Rudhyar's extolled keyword{s] in/of summation]
CONQUEST."
Well, yes, that's just fine your're probably saying, but what does this have to do with the "Sin of India", that Cayce mentioned?
That, has to do with the Desc., the "WHERE-TO" [or, "WHOM-TO', as I oft like to offer as an alternative way of conceptualizing it.], that is the 9th degree of Sagittarius [ibid.]
"A MOTHER LEADS HER SMALL CHILD STEP BY STEP UP A STEEP STAIRWAY.
KEYNOTE: The need in any social situation to assist the less evolved in their management of the problems which society requires its members to solve.
A staircase does not present a natural difficulty to a very young child. Man builds stairs and therefore is responsible for assisting the child to climb them step by step. Social and cultural living is not 'natural.' The child must first be taught by example, then helped along as he imitates as well as he can the grownup's behavior. Climbing stairs is only an illustration of a general process. Every generation must involve itself in teaching the next even the simplest skills needed for social existence.
At the fourth stage of the preceding five-fold sequence we saw parents encouraging a little child to walk. Walking is a natural human function; climbing stairs is a skill made necessary by the building of several-storied houses — a product of civilization. What is implied here is
SOCIAL CONCERN for the less evolved of society's members.'
If I may repeat: "...social concern for the less evolved of society's members."
I have to say that undeniably addresses and gives perfect Karmic resolution to that Sin identified as India's, by Edgar.
To further substantiate this chart, look also at the M.C. of this chart, at 22* Aquarius 12' 27", i.e the 23rd degree of Aquarius, the "HOW" of a spiritually evolutionary delineated manner of reading a natal chart through the Sabian Symbols [as for to those not spiritually inclined, the M.C. can, and usually is read as, the "WHY" of the chart.]
[ibid.]
"A BIG BEAR SITTING DOWN AND WAVING ALL ITS PAWS.
KEYNOTE: The self-discipline which results from an intelligent development of individual faculties under proper training.
What constitutes the proper training of children or animals is a complex and much-disputed problem. The symbol seems to state simply that powerful life energies can be trained adequately — the implication or extension of the idea being that no training is really successful unless it leads to the realization of the value and power of self-discipline. We are constantly faced with situations which, whether we are aware of it or not, are in fact training situations;
God or the Soul is the trainer. Much depends on the attitudes we assume in these situations.
This is the third symbol in the sixty-fifth sequence. We see in it the outcome of what is suggested in the two preceding ones. Character and a warm 'under-standing' of what is involved in the process of growth and overcoming of emotional heaviness can be taught. We can learn to discipline our natural impulses and to use them for a more-than-personal purpose.
This is DISCIPLESHIP in the true sense of the term." [underlining for emphasis is my doing... ptv]
If I may repeat the passage, "This is DISCIPLESHIP in the true sense of the term." ... how could anyone of the Sanatan Dharm, followers of the Guru Nanak and the Granth, the Sikh Dharm, those that strive to be as like the Buddha or those of the Jain ways contest, much yet still, argue, against that?
...and if you if you have the curiousity as to the 23rd of Leo, the I.C. of the chart, which is the "WHY", of the modern nation of India's existence and as to the transformation it must, and will, proceed through represented symbolically by the Sabians for the Asc. and Desc., that which are the "WHO" & "WHERE-TO", you can read it at this link, and read that for the 24th of Leo as well, as it precedes the 23rd in this 'spiritually evolutionary direction of the cyclic process of spiritual transformation through the 360 symbols of the Precepts of Divine design, decree and order of the Zodiac. ...I think you'll be more than pleasantly surprised, satisfied and assured of this chart, through its chart axis interpretation via Sabian Symbols and attendant technique being the exact profile, manifest identity of India and her people of unrivaled application and consciousness of spiritually oriented and applied ways of living. Those of the most sacred Dharms of the common Vedic sources of the most supreme and highest achievements of a most ancient Satya Yuga.
[And to save time and writing, I'll let you find for yourself as to what the symbols for 12:00 New Delhi time give via the Sabian Symbols. The Asc.- Desc. degrees are the 1st of Gemini-Sagittarius and those for the M.C - I.C., the 15th of Aquarius and Leo,at this link, here: http://www.mindfire.ca/An Astrological Mandala/An Astrological Mandala - Contents.htm
Since I'm updating this post anyways, I will post the Sabian Symbol for the I.C., the "WHY" of this natal chart. (that way I won't have to worry about updating links if If forgotten to.)
(ibid.)
"LEO 23°: IN A CIRCUS THE BAREBACK RIDER DISPLAYS HER DANGEROUS SKILL.
KEYNOTE: The audacity and perseverance required to control and play with the powerful energies of the vital realm in human existence.
The horse has always been the symbol of the vital energies. In a wild state the horse represents the magnificent, raw, impetuous energy of the libido in all its forms. When tamed, this energy is put to man's service. There are men who have dominated their natural energies so well that they can perform spectacular feats. Here these achievements are seen within the context of a social function and expressing a flair for dramatics.
At this third stage, the ego is in control; he is a great showman, but he serves a purpose. The performance stirs the imagination of the young consciousness. It raises the mind above the commonplace. The Keyword is
VIRTUOSITY."
I certainly don't think that I have to explain to an adept of any of the faiths among the people of India what those "Energies of the Vital Realm" are that Rudhyar mentions.
As some "men who have dominated their natural energies so well that they can perform spectacular feats" are known in India as Siddha Yogi's.That Order of Yoga known as Siddha once governed by the watchful wisdom of Swami Muktananda and those Yogis of other orders that master samayama and also acquire siddhis. Yeshu'a bn David, aka Jesus of Nazareth, was also a Siddha Yogi of the Hebrew kind. He mastered a few.
(F.Y.I. In Sri Pantanjali's writings that were collated into the book, "How To Know God", that is the section of the book dedicated to the study of Siddhis Pantanjali wrote that the same meditation in practice that one might achieve samayama with bestows the ability to walk on water and that He wrote that it also bestows the power to die and come back to life at will. Contemplate on that if you will, please. (My friend, Sevananda Das, of the Bhakti Yogis of ISKCON, i.e. the Bhakti Yogi's that are of the Western Hemisphere, aka The Occidental, part of the.world that are guided by their Guru Bir Krishna Goswami, knows of an account that is about 2000 years olf from a province in India in which a man who said that He was known as the Messiah to the people He came from in the West. He also said that those people, of the land He was born in, had believed He had died and that this man lived out the remainder of his life there in that province of India. A most curious account indeed and should spark up the attention that read what I wrote about the words of Patanjali above. Please do not take my posting this information here to be an endorsement by me as to the veracity and authenticity of the preceding. I'm merely stating what other folks have told me that I think is worthy of your attention.)
The degree that follows that I mentioned above, which is an interpretation of the transformation given in the cycle, the mandala, of symbols to is mundane, i.e. one that leads to an immersion in the Maya, one that does not liberate one from it ...or preceding that degree if one is following the direction of transformation in the other direction for an interpretation as to spiritual evolution, free of the attachment of the "Illusion" of this plane, that is the 24th degree of Leo is...(ibid)
"LEO 24°: TOTALLY CONCENTRATED UPON INNER SPIRITUAL ATTAINMENT, A MAN IS SITTING IN A STATE OF COMPLETE NEGLECT OF BODILY APPEARANCE AND CLEANLINESS.
KEYNOTE: An interior focalization of energy and consciousness at the expense of all forms of outward activity and care.
This traditional image of the Hindu holy man in the typical Western mind may well hide the fact that without proper training and intense concentration, what we usually consider spiritual attainment, self-realization and the 'God experience' is not possible. The 'intoxicated chickens' of the Leo 21° symbol must learn self-discipline if they want to 'fly'. There can be no halfway measures if the goal of true Yoga is to be reached.
This fourth stage symbol, as usual, suggests a certain kind of 'technique', or at least an adequate means to reach an envisioned goal. The means is TOTAL CONCENTRATION."
Attached; the natal chart of the modern nation of India. OM Tat Sat OM ptv aka Devananda aka David Mastry, Sisya of the Bij, OM, the Holy Word, the Logos (as explained by Swami Sivananda in his book on Japa Yoga) and protectorate of the Sadhan Order of India under the benevolent and watchful observance of Sri Prabhu Ram Lal, OM Namah Sri Prabhu Ramlalay ParBrahmnay Sharanam OM.
p.s You might also be interested in this older thread of mine.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40738&highlight=Gandhi
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