conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
Thanks for missing the point.
BEHOLD Donald Trump - Huffington Post Says He May Be Our Disguised Spiritual Leader
- Thread starter JUPITERASC
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Thanks for missing the point.
AppLeo
Well-known member
What point are you making?
Cap
Well-known member
You haven't answered my question.
This is not debatable. It is a historic fact.
But how will they do this if I have the strongest army? If I shut down all opposition and remain as the only one, having the monopoly in the market, people would need to buy from me, especially if I sell something essential for their survival, even if they don't like me as a person.
And since when is capitalism moral?
No, socialism requires state in order to function. Anarchist idea is not about implementing socialism.
But we are discussing anarcho-capitalism now. My point is to show that such idea is impossible. So, how would you prevent violence in a society of self absorbed selfish people, without a state, police, court system and the army?
This is not debatable. It is a historic fact.
But how will they do this if I have the strongest army? If I shut down all opposition and remain as the only one, having the monopoly in the market, people would need to buy from me, especially if I sell something essential for their survival, even if they don't like me as a person.
And since when is capitalism moral?
And you think socialism would?? LOL
No, socialism requires state in order to function. Anarchist idea is not about implementing socialism.
But we are discussing anarcho-capitalism now. My point is to show that such idea is impossible. So, how would you prevent violence in a society of self absorbed selfish people, without a state, police, court system and the army?
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
Read everything in post #419, including your quoted words.
AppLeo
Well-known member
What question?
Venezuela, China, Soviet Russia were destroyed by communism/socialism.
America became the wealthiest country in the world by capitalism.
History backs me up.
That's literally socialism/communism. You've officially became the government. You control production, freedom of speech, and everything else in between. You can tell people what they can and can't do. What is legal and wasn't legal. Because you are violating the NAP. Because you use violence and force to make things happen. You've destroyed liberty and free-will.
Since the beginning of time for humans.
Anarchy means no state or governmental power. And yet, you said that socialism was originally an anarchist principle?
What the hell are you talking about?
Selfish people wouldn't kill each other. They would rather trade and sell as individuals. Because they know that it's in their selfish interest to keep people alive and well to build, innovate, and create on this planet.
Why would you want to kill and destroy everyone around you if they are all making valuable products that make society better in every way possible? No one individual can produce everything amazingly at the best quality.
It's weird because, socialist want to get rid of monopolies, yet they give government the monopoly on everything in their life.
Okay, guess I'll never know what your point is.
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Cap
Well-known member
You keep talking about socialism even though we are discussing the impossibility of anarcho-capitalism now.
Anarchism in practice first appeared during Paris Commune.
Yes, that was my point. In order to prevent violence in anarcho-capitalist society you would need to establish a government.
Anarchism in practice first appeared during Paris Commune.
Yes, that was my point. In order to prevent violence in anarcho-capitalist society you would need to establish a government.
AppLeo
Well-known member
Well do you have any better ideas??
Every idea you advocate has already been tried and has failed. Anarcho-capitalism has never been tried.
Okay?
No. You don't prevent violence by giving a group of people the power to enact violence.
You get rid of violence by promoting rational self-interest.
Cap
Well-known member
This is possible only if everyone is willing to cooperate. But if I don't want to cooperate and I am violent, the only thing you can do is to overpower me in the battle. For large groups of violent people you would need to have even larger groups to overpower them.
...and voilà! You have the government.
AppLeo
Well-known member
No cooperation is needed, only people's rational self-interest. People will naturally not kill others when left to their own way of doing things. And will only trade and collaborate with others to further their life and other people's lives.
If you threaten me, I can kill you. But under government power in socialism, if I am threatened by the government I have no choice but to either submit to their collective vision or die.
Capitalism does not promote authority. It promotes selfish-interest. Not violence or altruism. You cannot have anarchy-capitalism is people threaten with violence.
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Apple Leo,
Ummm, there was a little thing called the Bosnian War.
Google it.
Ummm, there was a little thing called the Bosnian War.
Google it.
Why don't you move back there then? Why did you leave if it was so great?
AppLeo
Well-known member
Apple Leo,
Ummm, there was a little thing called the Bosnian War.
Google it.
I don't care. Who would even want to live in a socialist country anyway? That's something I will never understand.
Oh, really. People kill others for many varied reasons. Always have and always will. Sad fact.
Do you actually believe this stuff that you are writing or are you just having us all on?
Do you actually believe this stuff that you are writing or are you just having us all on?
I didn't say you had to care. You were unaware of why a person would leave the former Yugoslavia and I was giving you a little education.
You will have to understand history and learn facts once you attend college!
Quoting Ayn Rand will not get you through the academic years.
You will have to understand history and learn facts once you attend college!
Quoting Ayn Rand will not get you through the academic years.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
"Rationally self-interested people" are aware of their interdependence with others
and rationally co-operate with others
albeit for their own rationally self-interested reasons
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
you're alleging that killers kill because
"they are not left to their own way of doing things"
and that
if they had been "left to their own way of doing things"
then they would not have killed
but
what if
"their own way of doing things"
was
to kill people
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
"selfishly self-interested people" are interested to further their own lives
but are not necessarily keen to "further the lives" of other people
UNLESS
those other peoples lives are of benefit to their selfish self-interests
and so
do not necessarily value the lives of other people
and may or may or may not kill other people
david starling
Well-known member
"Rationally self-interested people" are aware of their interdependence with others
and rationally co-operate with others
albeit for their own rationally self-interested reasons
"Survival of the fittest" actually refers to a species as a group. And the human species has survived by being socially organized and interdependent. Banishment from a hunter-gathering culture was usually tantamount to a death sentence. In the U.S., individual freedom is always at risk, but still going strong. Trump's administration is heading for a showdown over the individual right to obtain and use marijuana, both medically and recreationally. Anyone who thinks these guys are in any way "Libertarian" hasn't been paying attention!
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
That's always an option
but
there are consequences to killing
irrespective of whether you think you are allowed to kill without consequences to yourself
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
It's not the government that has the last word on killing
21st century Capitalism is authoritarian
self-interested 21st Century capitalism uses violence to gain its ends