david starling
Well-known member
* ["And then if life were 100% fair, you might lose the good things in your life now."]
*[Not understanding what this means. Can you please explain?]
Waybread, did you mean "...then if life were 100% unfair..."?
Saturn and "character building": Why I hate Saturn
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Waybread, did you mean "...then if life were 100% unfair..."?
aquarius7000
Well-known member
Why don't you simply post your chart from astro.com? Instead of just repeatedly bashing up Saturn - it is on IC, it is Sag... that says or proves absolutely nothing - seen in isolation. One needs to look at the birth chart in totality.
Also, you might have lost your job, or feel you have a cognitive issue. Others have broken marriages or other more severe health issues. Everybody has something to deal with.
As to feeling that life is unfair, I can sure suggest to you once again to study a bit about reincarnation. Life is never unfair at all. It is just a phrase that is used when humans are otherwise unable to explain why some one is dealt the card they have been dealt.
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On my phone it doesn't have the option to upload my chart, I can only do so from a computer. Here is a link to my chart though.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85597&d=1591076930
I was actually diagnosed and yes I'm aware, there's always someone who has it worse. The biggest issue for me isn't even the money though. It's my social life. It's not having my own family. If I had those things, everything else would be more bearable. But when all you have is an autism spectrum disorder and a ******, monotonous job with ****** pay and that's essentially your life and missing out on your younger years, that takes a mental and emotional toll on you.
waybread
Well-known member
No.
So what does fairness mean? That you basically get the same as everybody else. A kind of equality.
Let's assume there's some kind of average, where you should get pretty much the same as everyone else, and vice versa.
I am grossly over-simplifying. But suppose your life were basically pretty rotten. Well below average. Unfair? Right?
But in your life, you nevertheless had some good things going for you. If life we're strictly fair, we'd have to pull those things down to the level of the average. So be grateful, if those good things are important to you, that life is not strictly fair. Because you've got a few benefits that are better than the average.
waybread
Well-known member
OK, clip, thanks for the link.
Mercury is a major player in your chart. It rules your ascendant and MC.
OK, so it's in Saturn-ruled Capricorn. But the house cusp ruler, with Sagittarius on your IC, is Jupiter. Jupiter is actually domiciled in Pisces, as the traditional ruler. (Neptune is the modern ruler of Pisces.) A domiciled planet is your ace in the hole.
I think your issue, as you've described it here, is more like Mercury (thinking, cognition) conjunct the moon and Neptune. This makes your thoughts ruled more by your feelings than by hard-headed analysis.
Neptune also tends to make people either would-be saviors or victims. It doesn't show us reality. I think you've chosen the victim dimension, one of Neptune's pitfalls.
Capricorns can tend to be morose, but they are also the metaphorical mountain climbers of the zodiac, who use their ambition to go places in life.
With Neptune conjunct sun, it's hard to develop a firm sense of identity. Neptune is the shape-shifter. But because of that you can use creative visualization to forge a more positive identity.
Like survivor. Like someone who faces obstacles but is willing to overcome them on his own two feet.
Mercury is a major player in your chart. It rules your ascendant and MC.
OK, so it's in Saturn-ruled Capricorn. But the house cusp ruler, with Sagittarius on your IC, is Jupiter. Jupiter is actually domiciled in Pisces, as the traditional ruler. (Neptune is the modern ruler of Pisces.) A domiciled planet is your ace in the hole.
I think your issue, as you've described it here, is more like Mercury (thinking, cognition) conjunct the moon and Neptune. This makes your thoughts ruled more by your feelings than by hard-headed analysis.
Neptune also tends to make people either would-be saviors or victims. It doesn't show us reality. I think you've chosen the victim dimension, one of Neptune's pitfalls.
Capricorns can tend to be morose, but they are also the metaphorical mountain climbers of the zodiac, who use their ambition to go places in life.
With Neptune conjunct sun, it's hard to develop a firm sense of identity. Neptune is the shape-shifter. But because of that you can use creative visualization to forge a more positive identity.
Like survivor. Like someone who faces obstacles but is willing to overcome them on his own two feet.
david starling
Well-known member
Yes, but then you'd have pull the below average stuff up in order to balance pulling the above average stuff down, and one's life would no longer be basically pretty rotten.
aquarius7000
Well-known member
Thanks for providing your chart.
Autism is described as a condition which causes the affected person to display a repetitive and restricted behaviour. There is social anxiety linked to this also. Firstly, would you say you reflect these?
Astrologically, the planets that are connected with cognition are Mercury and the Moon. Whilst Mercury is responsible for intellectual, comprehension and communicative powers; general mental ability, such as how receptive the mind is (also linked to emotions), how firm or wavering the mind is, one's emotional state, how receptive one is to what happens around oneself, thinking and accordingly behavioural patterns - belong to the Moon.
If we look at your chart, both these planets are afflicted by the outer planets. Moon is conjunct Uranus, whilst Merc. is conjunct Neptune. Note also that both these planets rule your 'outwardly' houses - where you are under society's scrutiny - the 10th and 11th houses.
Merc. in Cap actually means a very pragmatic and crystal clear way of thinking. However, with Nep close by, the effect is the opposite. This does not mean your thinking is not pragmatic or clear, but, at times, you will feel lost and unable to focus or think clearly. Merc. or Moon in Cap can also show a pessimistic or cynical attitude in life. Merc in Cap also means the native is very oriented to the physical, tangible world. Capricorn is linked to status and standing in society as well as security through tangible assets (like a solid bank account, real estate) also because these improve one's status in today's very material world. Again, Nep, on the other hand, tries to dilute that effect.
Moon afflicted by Uranus shows a strained, erratic, almost cranky emotional state (instead of a relaxed one). It can result in extreme behaviour at times. Moon requires a calm and nurturing state to provide emotional security to the native. Uranus has the opposite effect. Uranus is anything but calm or nurturing or steady. It is more like Mars, so small things can perturb one immensely. However, in your case, Saturn actually restrains that somewhat because Saturn does not like sudden disruptions, however, when they do happen, Saturn makes one very depressed and cynical. Moon affected by Saturn and Uranus can impart a sort of a bipolar effect on the native - being every excited and elated down to feeling very depressed and low.
Jup rules your home/family life and is actually dignified (strong) in Pisces. However, its effects are restricted or reduced by Uranus and Saturn right there. Also, Capricorn is a sign that is slow in progress and a sort of a late bloomer. This is because Saturn makes you work for things. That said, actually, at 33, you are not a late bloomer. You speak as though you were 50 and without a partner/ children. That also reflects a very Cap Sun and Merc. way of pessimistic thinking, and comparing oneself to society - because status through real things is very important for the Cap energy.
Autism is described as a condition which causes the affected person to display a repetitive and restricted behaviour. There is social anxiety linked to this also. Firstly, would you say you reflect these?
Astrologically, the planets that are connected with cognition are Mercury and the Moon. Whilst Mercury is responsible for intellectual, comprehension and communicative powers; general mental ability, such as how receptive the mind is (also linked to emotions), how firm or wavering the mind is, one's emotional state, how receptive one is to what happens around oneself, thinking and accordingly behavioural patterns - belong to the Moon.
If we look at your chart, both these planets are afflicted by the outer planets. Moon is conjunct Uranus, whilst Merc. is conjunct Neptune. Note also that both these planets rule your 'outwardly' houses - where you are under society's scrutiny - the 10th and 11th houses.
Merc. in Cap actually means a very pragmatic and crystal clear way of thinking. However, with Nep close by, the effect is the opposite. This does not mean your thinking is not pragmatic or clear, but, at times, you will feel lost and unable to focus or think clearly. Merc. or Moon in Cap can also show a pessimistic or cynical attitude in life. Merc in Cap also means the native is very oriented to the physical, tangible world. Capricorn is linked to status and standing in society as well as security through tangible assets (like a solid bank account, real estate) also because these improve one's status in today's very material world. Again, Nep, on the other hand, tries to dilute that effect.
Moon afflicted by Uranus shows a strained, erratic, almost cranky emotional state (instead of a relaxed one). It can result in extreme behaviour at times. Moon requires a calm and nurturing state to provide emotional security to the native. Uranus has the opposite effect. Uranus is anything but calm or nurturing or steady. It is more like Mars, so small things can perturb one immensely. However, in your case, Saturn actually restrains that somewhat because Saturn does not like sudden disruptions, however, when they do happen, Saturn makes one very depressed and cynical. Moon affected by Saturn and Uranus can impart a sort of a bipolar effect on the native - being every excited and elated down to feeling very depressed and low.
Jup rules your home/family life and is actually dignified (strong) in Pisces. However, its effects are restricted or reduced by Uranus and Saturn right there. Also, Capricorn is a sign that is slow in progress and a sort of a late bloomer. This is because Saturn makes you work for things. That said, actually, at 33, you are not a late bloomer. You speak as though you were 50 and without a partner/ children. That also reflects a very Cap Sun and Merc. way of pessimistic thinking, and comparing oneself to society - because status through real things is very important for the Cap energy.
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That's very accurate. But I guess at 33 and not having my own family is the most depressing to me. My granddad just passed away in March of this year and I feel bad that he will never have been able to see any children I may have plus my parents are in their early 60s and want grandchildren and all of their siblings have grandchildren. My dad's older sisters oldest grandchild is starting high school this year. Her dad is my cousin and hes only two years older than I am. Another cousin of mine who is 26, his mom is my dad's younger sister, he has 2 sons, one 7 and the other almost a year old.
I guess one of my biggest fears is that I'll be old and by myself with a ****** job.
As for social anxiety, I think it has improved with time, although I have experienced and do take medicine for generalized anxiety. The same with repetitive behaviours.
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aquarius7000
Well-known member
Clip, I know at least a dozen people if not more that are 40+ and without a partner and children. 33 is young. What you need to understand is that not all five fingers on your hand are alike. The more you compare yourself with others in terms of what they have and you don't, you will harm yourself more than help yourself - the proof is in the pudding - and you see how you feel about it by doing so - the reason probably you started this thread.
Some people are just late bloomers in life in certain areas. With you it is in settling down with a partner. Others might have partner, but no children. Yet others might have children, but dysfunctional families, or alcoholic parents. There is no end to comparisons of such kind.
Focus on achieving - whatever betters your life for you - with one step at a time. Luck in partnership is around middle of 2022. It sounds a bit far away, but perhaps because you need to mature up a bit emotionally. Join yoga or a meditation group to calm down a bit. Be grateful for what you have instead of getting depressed about what needs time.
What makes you say luck in partnership is the middle of 2022? Is that a transit or something?
aquarius7000
Well-known member
Jup transit in Pisces, and, for you, also your Jup return.
Houses that will be affected will be 4 (home and family, as well as real estate) and 7 (relationships, or even a business partnership)
CapAquaPis
Well-known member
Jupiter and Saturn are conjunct with the Sun on Dec 20-22nd, during the northern winter solstice, and let's see what it does to the world to "build character" in the signs Capricorn/Aquarius while the Sun transits Sagittarius to Capricorn.
IleneK
Premium Member
All: please forgive my jumping in here without reading the entire thread. I just read OP's lament here and felt I compelled to respond:
It looks like Saturn has not nearly done it's work with you. You will be seeing a lot more of it, more hard lessons ,until you are able to answer what the goodness and value Saturn good is in your life. Until that happens, until you grow up, which is what Saturn is about, you will remain a child, regardless of your age.
Grow up is a very vague term that can literally mean anything. I can't "grow up" because I don't even know what, if anything, it means. Does it mean get a job? Does it mean physically grow? Does it mean move out? Pay rent? I've done all of that.
waybread
Well-known member
Are you familiar with the poem Invictus?
It works sort of like that.
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/51642/invictus
It works sort of like that.
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/51642/invictus
aquarius7000
Well-known member
Grow up should be seen in the context of things being discussed. When talking of Saturn, if one knows a bit about Saturn, one would have the basic understanding at least of what "grow up" means.
Even without discussing Saturn, grow up is in the context of one's age and can be well understood. When one tells a 5 year old why they must finish their meal so they can grow up - it is clearly meant "physically" without one having to spell it out. The same grow-up said to a 30 year old lazing around the whole day or not going to work on time (context) can be understood as - mature up and act responsibly. That is what Saturn is about. It really is not that difficult if one is clear about the context.
david starling
Well-known member
Is Saturn CAUSING problems, or just ALERTING us to problems we NEED to be aware of?
I'm inclined to think it's the latter, which makes Saturn an extremely valuable "indicator".
However, by the same token, Saturn DOESN'T TEACH US HOW to solve those problems, but instead, merely WARNS us that we'd BETTER solve them, OR ELSE!
So, hating Saturn is like hating the MESSENGER OF BAD TIDINGS for not helping with the solutions.
Here's an example: Saturn's like a siren that signals a tornado warning.
Would you rather not even know that a tornado might hit, or be grateful that you received the warning in time to find shelter ON YOUR OWN?
I'm inclined to think it's the latter, which makes Saturn an extremely valuable "indicator".
However, by the same token, Saturn DOESN'T TEACH US HOW to solve those problems, but instead, merely WARNS us that we'd BETTER solve them, OR ELSE!
So, hating Saturn is like hating the MESSENGER OF BAD TIDINGS for not helping with the solutions.
Here's an example: Saturn's like a siren that signals a tornado warning.
Would you rather not even know that a tornado might hit, or be grateful that you received the warning in time to find shelter ON YOUR OWN?
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david starling
Well-known member
Here's another example: Saturn's like the "Check Engine" indicator in your car. That indicator doesn't tell you exactly what the problem is, or how to fix it--that's your responsibility. But, it warns you that if you DON'T do what's necessary to fix it, you'll end up by the side of the highway, waiting for a tow truck. Or, if it's a problem with the braking system, something much worse than that.
david starling
Well-known member
There's also those Saturnian gauges that warn you that you're nearly out of gas or oil; and, in all-electric vehicles that you're nearly out of charge. They won't get you to the service station, but they warn you in advance that you'd better get yourself there before it's too late.
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