Suicide in the birth chart?
- Thread starter Keira
- Start date
This is actually a question that I've had in mind as well.
A dear friend took his life, and I haven't looked at his chart but wondered if a tendency to suicide might be seen. Unfortunately I don't have his birth time.
I thought have to do with pisces and Neptune contacts.
A dear friend took his life, and I haven't looked at his chart but wondered if a tendency to suicide might be seen. Unfortunately I don't have his birth time.
I thought have to do with pisces and Neptune contacts.
Hi!
Because I search about this theme in the books, but I find nothing.
And because of Stan Kirsch.
I know his birth time and place (1968.1986.July.15.- New York, New York).
But I don' t know his rising sign, that's my other question in this forum, but nobody can help me yet.
I know that, he had neck pain, and had 2 neck surgery. That' s and his look that I think he had a Capricorn ascendant.
What do you think about his ascendant?
Please, help me about this!
Keira
😉
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Oh, I' sorry for your lost!
I' m just thinking of this, because I don' t read about this theme in books.
And because of Stan Kirsch death.
I know that he born in 1986.July.15. in New York, New York, but I don,t know his ascendant, but I think he look like as a Capricorn ascendant man, what do you think about it?
Keira
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Thank you, kalinka.
It happened about 5 years ago but it still disturbs me.
Which is why I haven't looked at the chart.
But I've often wondered, why do some people resort to suicide, while others struggle on, even with pain, but don't give up.
There must be a link in their charts, no? Something that brings desperation and hopelessness.
It happened about 5 years ago but it still disturbs me.
Which is why I haven't looked at the chart.
But I've often wondered, why do some people resort to suicide, while others struggle on, even with pain, but don't give up.
There must be a link in their charts, no? Something that brings desperation and hopelessness.
Osamenor
Staff member
But that doesn't guarantee that they'll commit suicide. That part is, ultimately, their decision. Even if the decision is only to get on a healing path before their depression is so severe that they'll die of it.
Agreed.
However, there are some people who would never even take into consideration such an ending.
While others seem to be not predisposed, but have some character trait that might allow the possibility to enter their mind.
What difference might there be between these two groups, in their charts?
Osamenor
Staff member
That's worth exploring, but what we're looking for is risk factors. Risk factors in the chart don't guarantee the risk will manifest, but the more of them there are, the stronger the possibility gets. It's similar to risk factors for medical problems.
If someone who is at risk for suicide actually commits it, their progressions and transits will reflect something major at that time. But in and of themselves, the progressions and transits still wouldn't guarantee that outcome. The same progressions and transits will happen at the same time no matter what, but the native's response and the outcome could be different, depending on circumstances and choices.
Maybe they die. Maybe they survive a suicide attempt. Maybe that's the time when they find a treatment for their depression that actually works. Or maybe earlier transits and progressions that could have indicated suicide coincided with their turning point, and now they're not suicidal, their major event is something else entirely.
Haha! I think we got you here, Osamenor!
"Or maybe earlier transits and progressions that could have indicated suicide "
So there are transits, progressions that could indicate suicide.
So, following it logically there could also be indications in the natal chart of a possible predisposition towards suicide, based on certain aspects.
So, what might these aspects be? Do they have to do with certain signs (I have Pisces in mind, only because of it's tendency towards self sacrifice), or certain planets (no idea), or touching for example the 8th and 12th houses.
Any ideas on this?
"Or maybe earlier transits and progressions that could have indicated suicide "
So there are transits, progressions that could indicate suicide.
So, following it logically there could also be indications in the natal chart of a possible predisposition towards suicide, based on certain aspects.
So, what might these aspects be? Do they have to do with certain signs (I have Pisces in mind, only because of it's tendency towards self sacrifice), or certain planets (no idea), or touching for example the 8th and 12th houses.
Any ideas on this?
Osamenor
Staff member
A better phrasing would have been "could have indicated suicide or a number of other things."
The important details are that we have a suggestion of a major turning point and the risk factors the native has for suicide are being triggered. Those same triggers could also play out in a very different way.
Osamenor
Staff member
I think there are far more indicators than that.
I read somewhere, forget where, that people born in the cusp week when the sun transits from Cancer to Leo (Robin Williams, for example) seem to be especially at risk. That makes sense to me in light of the messages that a sun on the cusp of Cancer and Leo would carry: Cancer's heightened sensitivity in general combined with Leo's emphasis on self. I can see that being a huge risk for self esteem issues, and a guarantee that if and when they occur, they'll be felt especially keenly.
But self esteem issues don't necessarily lead to suicide. That's just one factor.
Steven Forrest gave an example of a transit that was linked to suicide in one person but not another: Ernest Hemingway and Martin Luther King Jr. had the same ascendant, just a few degrees' difference. Mars crossed their ascendants in the period of a couple weeks when King got arrested for civil disobedience for the first time and Hemingway blew his brains out.
aquarius7000
Well-known member
Yes, it can be detected.
Anything, rather proclivities to anything, can be detected in a birth chart. An astrologer just needs to be adept at Astrology to be able to detect it. Astrology will give you ALL information about the native.
That said, one needs to be conscious of 1) the ethics and purpose (when will i die vs. concerned parents about their child) of detecting such very delicate matters; 2) know when and how to present it to the native/ native's kin; and 3) be as sure as they can be (experience, practice and skills count) of what they are presenting
Anything, rather proclivities to anything, can be detected in a birth chart. An astrologer just needs to be adept at Astrology to be able to detect it. Astrology will give you ALL information about the native.
That said, one needs to be conscious of 1) the ethics and purpose (when will i die vs. concerned parents about their child) of detecting such very delicate matters; 2) know when and how to present it to the native/ native's kin; and 3) be as sure as they can be (experience, practice and skills count) of what they are presenting
aquarius7000
Well-known member
That is because one transit says nothing about anything. A good Astrologer will consider at least 3 potential triggers/ confirmations before deciding. Also two people's charts might have the same "transit", but they will not have the same transits over every house in relation with those house rulers and where they are placed.
Ernest Hemingway.
Just to get started, knowing this is a suicide chart.
Ascendent ruler is in 12th house, in a wide square with Uranus sitting on the IC.
The 8th house ruler mars is in first house, quintile Uranus on the IC.
South node is conjunct Neptune, ruler of 7th (open enemies).
And, sun placed where Osamenor mentioned, end of cancer.
Sun rules the 12th.
Sun squares Jupiter, co-ruler of 7th.
The Part of Suicide 1 is 19 taurus (trine mars from the 9th of higher thoughts...? thoughts of suicide?)
The Part of Suicide 2 is 13 Capricorn (conjunct moon)
Just to get started, knowing this is a suicide chart.
Ascendent ruler is in 12th house, in a wide square with Uranus sitting on the IC.
The 8th house ruler mars is in first house, quintile Uranus on the IC.
South node is conjunct Neptune, ruler of 7th (open enemies).
And, sun placed where Osamenor mentioned, end of cancer.
Sun rules the 12th.
Sun squares Jupiter, co-ruler of 7th.
The Part of Suicide 1 is 19 taurus (trine mars from the 9th of higher thoughts...? thoughts of suicide?)
The Part of Suicide 2 is 13 Capricorn (conjunct moon)
