Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

sadge said:

You guys just reminded me of something random, but related to both of your perspectives.

Have you thought about the Fibonacci sequence against the dynamic nature of evolution on a cosmic level? Some people dont think "big picture," in a holistic kind of way, as it relates to the cyclical patterns in the universe. And by "cycle," I'm not referring to running around on a flat circle, such as simply surviving natal transits and chasing our tails in a one-dimensional way (although plenty of people seem to do just that). Rather, I'm referring to the natural process of evolution in an upward and expansive way -- growth, progress, transformation.... the universe does this, with us or without us. The Fibonacci sequence is simply the "golden ratio" in mathematics, but it's visible everywhere in the universe, including your hands, face, flowers in nature, even in the patterns of how we advance the growing body of human knowledge..... its really amazing to observe, if you know how to see it. (Which I believe both of you are observing through your own unique perspectives.)

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Yes, the golden ratio describes balanced growth, the way a spiral can grow without being heavier on one side than the other at any given time. It is elegance itself. No doubt when we dance (well), we are moving across the floor and around our own axis in permutations of this ratio.

The golden ratio can be constructed or derived from the geometry of the number five.



I have no doubts that this is at the heart of the pentagram that is shaped in the combination between the paths of Venus and Earth around the Sun.



https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2014/01/04/the-pentagram-of-venus/

The relationship between Venus and Earth can then be seen as commanding the wisdom of balanced growth, much like the shape of the horn of plenty itself.

blacksun? said:

Hey, nice work!
I hadn't looked back that far.

This gives some pause.
Ive looked at the history timelines for these periods.
In both periods, there were enormous religious changes.
The first period was marked by the rapid subjection by the Mohammedans of the Arab world. The second period is being referred to as the deep crisis of the dark ages. On the other hand, right at the moment of he conjunction, the Germans started producing paper - we could liken this to the creation of the internet, this time around - and the popes moved from Rome to the magnificent Palace Des Papes in Avignon.

When I first had my car, I went out for a drive and didn't come back for some weeks. I drove from Amsterdam to southern France. Approaching Avignon on the highway from Lyon, it was raining like the ocean was being dropped onto the road. Through the torrents of skywater saw apparitions of ruins and jagged trees on hilltops, and I said to myself: this is my town.

The next evening I was sitting on the warm stone of the high walls of the Palais des Papes, and a girl came sitting next to me. She told me to listen to the stones.

Avignon is a terribly beautiful city. Perhaps the loveliest in all of Europe. Perhaps that snot possible to say about any city that isn't Greek or Italian. But the spirit there is old, and good.

In any case, I would say that your generation is going to carry a lot of spiritual weight. The previous two conjunctions both were followed by gigantic spiritual upheavals. Its just a question of "which one of them would reach him first" -- eh, I mean, of the type of spirit.

Nothing will stay the same. That much seems clear.

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Much thanks again!

What are you guys noticing from Jupiter in Scorpio?
Its a big change for me. I am definitely getting possessed with drives I can't deal with the way I dealt with them in the previous years.

I have a late Jupiter in Scorpio, close Trine to Sun in Pisces. Neptune is currently on my Ascendant, and close to the Mercury/Mars Conjuntion in Pisces. I'll need some time to see the effect of Jupiter in Scorpio, but it bodes well for delving deeper into Astrology. My Jupiter return should be....interesting.

david starling said:

I have a late Jupiter in Scorpio, close Trine to Sun in Pisces. Neptune is currently on my Ascendant, and close to the Mercury/Mars Conjuntion in Pisces. I'll need some time to see the effect of Jupiter in Scorpio, but it bodes well for delving deeper into Astrology. My Jupiter return should be....interesting.

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Nice placements!

Yes I think it is going to be good for occult work. I even think it is going to be bad for everything that has no roots in the realms of what Ill just call value-magic, i.e. that doesn't have real living foundations.

Weinstein ouster is a pretty strong indication that Scorpio is starting to stir.
It would deeply surprise me if Weinstein is the only or the worst sexual predator in Hollywood. In fact I would be surprised if less than half of the execs is a pervert. It seems like this could be an overture for a bigger crisis.

Its a bit scary how eager all of these stars are to scream the loudest condemnations - it seems they are covering themselves, they seem terrified of something. Im not sure what, maybe just Hollywood itself.

Weinstein ouster is a pretty strong indication that Scorpio is starting to stir.
It would deeply surprise me if Weinstein is the only or the worst sexual predator in Hollywood. In fact I would surprise in less than half of the execs is a pervert. It seems like this could be an overture for a bigger crisis.

Its a bit scary how eager all of these stars are to scream the loudest condemnations - it seems they are covering themselves, they seem terrified of something. Im not sure what, maybe just Hollywood itself. Wishfully thinking that if one guy is out, their own morals might magically be cleansed.

blacksun? said:

What are you guys noticing from Jupiter in Scorpio?
Its a big change for me. I am definitely getting possessed with drives I can't deal with the way I dealt with them in the previous years.

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My current thoughts on Jupiter in Scorpio?

Recently, I thought about how Jupiter will expand things. In Scorpio, I wondered how it will expand destruction for evolutionary purposes. Theoretically, it should make it easier to destroy, whether for good or bad. Practically speaking, I suspect the usual ebb and flow in economic policies. We can expect to see similar loosening of credit standards (like what we saw 10-12 years ago) in response to the Federal Reserve's slow step backwards from the aggressive quantitative easing that's been employed to artificially keep our consumer-based economy afloat.

But lets set practical considerations aside. On a more beautiful note, Jupiter's entry into Scorpio happened to coincide with a request I received for a relationship analysis. The way this person expressed his concerns about his girl were the most exquisite thoughts to come from another human being. His words embodied all that is love when it's unfiltered and pure, functioning at maximum capacity. The highest pinnacle of love is when it's just plain love, nothing else, even in the face of everything else. Most people are not capable of even thinking, yet alone acting, upon love on such selfless terms as he did. Reading his letter was like watching a shooting star. I still haven't looked at the charts because I'm not ready to dissect the anatomy of the relationship. It seems disrespectful to perform surgery on what is already so beautiful. I'm still catching my breath from reading the letter, even though it's been days.

What i witnessed was extraordinary, even though he may not have seen it in himself. When someone is that honest and vulnerable, and gives his love so unconditionally, with the kind of tender warmth that radiates when one's power is contained, I knew I had witnessed something divine.

We're just getting started with Jupiter in Scorpio and I already got to catch a glimpse of one life that is clearly on earth to show everyone what Venus can do when it's done the right way. Powerful venuses come in surprising packages, and I look forward to this Jupiter transit unlocking some more.

Jupiter cycles keep getting better every time. Looking forward to this one.

david starling said:

I have a late Jupiter in Scorpio, close Trine to Sun in Pisces. Neptune is currently on my Ascendant, and close to the Mercury/Mars Conjuntion in Pisces. I'll need some time to see the effect of Jupiter in Scorpio, but it bodes well for delving deeper into Astrology. My Jupiter return should be....interesting.

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Looks like you'll have a lot of support in the right places too, internally and externally.

The world doesn't waste time. As soon as technology allowed for a unification of all peoples, this started happening.

There has bee little success in making this unification a human process. It has been mostly inhuman, corporate, exploitative. the path of least resistance. Resistance is power, we have been weakened. How? We have been deceived. About what? About our own nature.

I am listening to a lecture about a man whose thinking about power, freedom and human will and desire, is clarifying a great deal.

Isaiah Berlin - Lecture on Joseph de Maistre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB2U9XXpHP4

Are we now brave enough to acknowledge the truth of tis insight. that man requires not merely freedom, but mystery? "Occult; "Dark".

Was this then the function of the Church - and of Dante - and is this something we need to acknowledge about Jupiter... to inspire terror? There is an Ancient Greek maxim that says that beauty is terror. Donna Tart wrote an excellent novel around it. Nietzsche allows the Pathos of Distance as a function of the highest virtue. Mountains as friends to each others, with great valleys, ravines, abysses between them.

Because people war for Venus - Venus is the reason Mars fares war, as Venus is the goddess who best estimates respect and honour extended - she knows how to value valuing, as she is the ruler of the Valuator, Taurus, it is in Venus we might seek the resolution of this ... terror-habit, and transform it into a seething that goes into us as the sun goes into plants- face the mystery head-on. See what flowers may erupt.

Flower-wars. That is what nature is, the tis what humans have to become. So far we've been too afraid, too afraid to be naked - and in this fear humans have been beautiful, their ways of adorning have been magnificent, and it has created the mystery of the erotic universe we have that animals don't share with us. It is an endless universe of hidden promise - and in this sense we must understand the tendency of the islamic world to hide women entirely. Im a mot defending his as I find it dangerous and perverse, precisely because it is an excess of acknowledgement of he sexual mystery - the harem is its extension. Woman only revealed when they are entirely naked. The impulse was the extremity of the surprise, the heart-stopping effect of the shrouded woman who suddenly reveals the scanty dress underneath. Our society has been overtaken by the terror and the suggestion to our subconscious mind f a deeper mystery of beauty behind it. Jupiter was on the MC when the towers were hit. Jupiter aids in spectacle, and terror has been used in myth-making. We can see how the islamic world still has a great deal of prospect. Davids analysis shows that the time of authoritarianism is far from over in the third world. Rather, we may see the establishment of a kind of eternal authority in some regions in the world. This must become a merciful authority, even if it may have to be based in terrifying myth. We, however, are heading to a ore autonomous myth making, we will embody part of that terror and beauty that nature uses to motivate herself - this is what Venus commands, her ultimate vying is with Pluto. Venus and Pluto rule this violent Western paradise, and the intensity of this pair, the sheer resistance they create, we must master this. We must give a human face to the terrifying monster of energy, take off the mask that is really what our own fear puts on the truth about ourselves -- which I would be a fool to now try to put into words, the point is that it needs to be slowly revealed, also to me. Progression.

Our Economies must become governed by Saturns cycles. But Saturn, while regulating, does not define virtue, value or merit. Pluto is closer tied to these things, as is Venus. Then Jupiter and Sun and Moon and Neptune. The urgency of the pair Venus Pluto is unsurpassed.

Also,

A friend of mine introduced the idea of the Earth Molecule
A theoretical particle that simply means the standard of Earth. A proposition at the base of all teleology.

Tectonic Philosophy: the act of building the future, "Building, dwelling, thinking" as Heidegger intimated it at the outset of the post industrial world.

Dammit. We went off topic again. This thread is supposed to be about Jupiter. Somebody better report my a**.

Ha. Let Jupiter rule over whats tolerated and what isn't.
Jupiter as king of the gods will surely not mind some gossip about his family that we humans have to share.

I love your interpretation, yes this goes very well with what I mean is our challenge I the west. Crucial is your mentioning of "weak Pluto", because a strong Pluto aspected to Venus in a chart can result in prophets of true love, like Victor Hugo, who is perhaps Europes foremost romantic, he has a conjunction of Venus, Sun and Pluto (Pisces, around Formalhaut) opposed Jupiter Saturn and Lilith around Regulus. In this company, Pluto gives his best. Or his worst just isn't put up with by Jupiter, Saturn and Lilith.... haha. You don't want to mess with that company.

In any case, the whole exposure of Hollywood as one big whorehouse, which everyone was supposed to have already known since the 40's, has Pluto and Venus at its core. Weinsteins ouster would have enormous consequences on all the tens of thousand sexual predators that make up that economy. It is my opinion that if an actor or actress takes place on the "casting couch" and performs a sexual favour to get a part, that person is literally a prostitute. I don't have much against prostitutes, I think selling ones mind to a acquisition bank or deforestation company is the actually bad thing, the bad form of prostitution, where selling ones body to some sex-starved person is quite dirty and problematic emotionally but no one is hurt by it except possibly the prostitute herself. And I bet this is how all these actors and actresses that sucked their way onto the silver screen must feel. Now that the glamour of Hollywood is in decline, these people are probably wondering why they paid that price for such a career anyway.

Ive done some acting courses and I can tell you acting will disrupt your morals. You have to get out of your own standards. Actors are not in general moral beings, not in the least. They are quite fun, not as clever as lawyers, who are amoral in a funner and smarter way. But actors will betray you behind your back without the least of scrupules, Ive got some in my family too, not the brightest moral lights, to say the least.

So back to Pluto - Venus.
My Venus rules my Pluto, so perhaps I have a skewed image, I have a Pluto that is quite... light. Weirdly, it sometimes seems like my Pluto is the most nurturing part of me. Then, it is conjunct Ceres. In any case my Pluto can destroy the petrified fearful walls of souldead humans, as a way to open the doors politely for my Venus to step into wherever life needs her.

I just found this exquisite praise of Scorpio, written by one Jamie at Pandoraastrology.com. Much of this touches Pluto as well.

QUOTE

Scorpio, thank you for keeping the darkness at bay!* Scorpio is that side of us that stores, protects and keeps our painful experiences and memories safe, and manages the instinctual side of our life.* It’s a sort of holding-place for all the dark things in the soul.* Scorpio holds all this stuff in a secret corner of our personality, and because we all have at least a little Scorpio within us, we don’t have to look in that corner every day.* Here are just a few of the things your inner Scorpio is protecting your conscious mind from having to deal with:

1.** *Your*addictions and compulsions.* These are the things you must have or control.* They may be things you get fetishistic about or regard as “special.” (ever seen a drug user grooming his paraphernalia?).* They are also things you use to control your experience of life (perhaps to feel better or to feel ok).* Here’s a clue:* if you can’t imagine life without it, you might be too attached.

2.** *Your*inner demons, the sides of you that come out when you feel overcome and are compelled to behave badly.* You know, sometimes you feel taken over and find later that you’ve done or said something you regret, and it almost seems like somebody else did it, using your body.* That one of your demons coming out to play.* Everybody’s got ‘em.

3.** *Your sensitivity to*other people’s demons.* Yep, like attracts like and other people’s demons will mirror your own.* Scorpio is the side of us that senses that mirroring.* It can be hard to stop pointing the finger at others and to instead look inside oneself, but that which is inside oneself is the only stuff we can hope to change.

4.** *Your*trauma, or stored pain.* Every time you ever got hurt, the Scorpio in you took note of it.* Scorpio still has your inner child in that holding area.* Your inner child is still completely intact because Scorpio is protecting you from the demons.* You can retrieve that tender innocence anytime you want.* It will always be there, waiting to be retrieved and brought back into the light.

5.** *Your*deep desires and your capacity for intimacy.* Your longing to merge with others.* The side of you that joins, connects, shares.* This is your Scorpio side, and it is rich and deep.* Say hello to your desires, greet them with a smile.* Welcome them and make a place for them at your warm hearth.

Brave Scorpios of the world!* You look at this stuff inside yourself on pretty much a daily basis.* That’s a challenging way to live, but you like being on your own edge, don’t you?* Face to face with death and living more fully as a result.* Thank you, Scorpio, for reminding us how good it is to be alive, and for keeping our darkness (and the light that’s hiding there) safe until we’re ready to look at it.

END QUOTE

Pluto Moon shows the courageous side of Pluto. It is there that the Homeric heart can beat, the soul that finds itself one with the very necessity of power itself and there is no contrivance. To paraphrase Nietzsche: Its not that the Greeks didnt fear hell or punishment, they just endured their fear without shriveling, without remorse. This is Pluto Moon. Persephone is the goddess that steps forward to claim this. Is it true then that gods tend to appear as aspects, rather than as planets? It is certainly true that a planet can never be read alone, but aspects can, as they comprise something much more specific and assertive with at least 2 planets or points involved. Apollos triangle as comprising three points fits to this notion. Exaltations can perhaps be interpreted as gods manifesting - yet not only exaltations, other planetary placements as well. It never sat right with me that Zeus could be trapped into a sign or house. Perhaps Zeus is only there when Jupiter is dominant.

I see the Ancient Greco-Roman religions as an informative "template" for Planetary interactions. Persephone/Proserpina is the feminine version of Pluto's influence, and is a direct connection to Aries as the first Sign of Spring. My studies have led me to consider the goddess Demeter/Ceres as the feminine counterpart to Ares/Mars. Since the Planet which is "Native-ruler" of Aries has been exclusively tied to the masculine version, it gets confusing. I'm talking about the archetypal gods and goddesses, and the "red-Planet" ITSELF as having both male and female characteristics. NOT Demeter/Ceres as the dwarf planet, which is of much less importance, but is linked to the red-Planet.
In the rulership groupings, Scorpio and its Native-ruler Pluto|Persephone (Pluto|Proserpina) are in a partnership, "Service-arrangement" with Aries and its Native-ruler Ares|Demeter (Mars|Ceres). Which is seen in the service of Persephone helping her mother Demeter to initiate the Spring, then returning to her role as Queen of the Underworld. I think of Demeter as Mother Nature. NOT to be tripled with. So Aries is Native-ruled by both the masculine and feminine sides of the red-Planet, meaning Aries in its purest form is ruled by Mother Nature far more than by the god of War. I don't equate the Modalities to Male and Female, but to "Yin and Yang", so there's no problem with a Yang-sign like Aries being ruled by a goddess archetype. Same with Yang-sign Libra, and Venus.

The Service-arrangement pattern shows the red-Planet in service to the Planet Jupiter. So, feminine version of the red-Planet, Demeter/Ceres, as Mother Nature, in service to the Sky-god Zeus/Jupiter.

Being served by the god of War, and the goddess of Nature (both characteristic of the red-Planet), Zeus/Jupiter was both invincible in battle and could ensure the bounties of Nature, which is the real source of health and wealth.

david starling said:

Being served by the god of War, and the goddess of Nature (both characteristic of the red-Planet), Zeus/Jupiter was both invincible in battle and could ensure the bounties of Nature, which is the real source of health and wealth.

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For anyone who believes the dwarf-Planet Ceres (as in Demeter/Ceres) should be accorded full Astrological rulership-status, I wouldn't be averse to giving both the red-Planet and the "remnant-Planet" Native-rulership of Aries, for the masculine and feminine rulership qualities. Although, I personally prefer to use just the red-Planet with a dual nature.

This is fantastic.
Yes, it makes sense.
Nothing to add.
I ll just re arrange my idea-scape regarding Aries a bit.
It always felt like there was something missing.

My vision of Persephone has always been entirely Aries-like. A young woman facing the sun head on, the solar wind ripping through her blond hair as her face remains stoic, knowing, and with that lightness of chin only a woman who has survived the dark with her soul intact can display.

sadge said:

Looks like you'll have a lot of support in the right places too, internally and externally.

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Jupiter in Scorpio is one bad ************.