Does Pluto Rule/Co-Rule Scorpio?

my Pluto cadent and Mars debilitated, yet I can personally relate to some of the posts above albeit internally. so my vote goes to Pluto co-rule Scorpio.

Bunraku had suggested delineating a chart. The character that comes to mind pertaining to this subject is; Dr. Jack Kevorkian. I can not seem to find a chart with a correct birth-time however. Has any members on here tried to do a chart rectification for his chart. If not, then let's try to accomplish this so that we may debate how significant Pluto is in his chart. Game?

In my opinion is ruled by only.

Pluto has been assigned to Aries as well.

Mars is assigned to Aries and Scorpio, but Pluto is about power and Aries people are leaders and are often seen in power positions.

Mars may co rule but really I dont believe in dual rulers.

In modern astrology Pluto co-rules or rules Scorpio. In traditional astrology it does not.

The reason why Pluto is the modern (co) ruler of Scorpio is because it works in chart interpretation.

I used to use the modern rulers only in nativities, but now I use both. I don't use Pluto as a co-ruler in horary astrology unless it seems to have strong interpretive value in a particular chart.

"Rules" and "Rulership" are too vague for me, personally. I have to qualify them to give them meaning. "Influencer" is more descriptive, but a bit unwieldy. For now, I would say (since I'm speaking only regarding my own version of Modern-astrology), both the positions of Pluto and Mars are indicators of important Influence on the Sign-program known as "Scorpio". Pluto's influence is parental in nature, whereas Mars is more like a trusted, friendly advisor. I agree with waybread that theory must fit the facts, and I'm engaged in fact-checking in Astrological practice. But intuition is also valuable.
I am still working on this (when I can) and for now [IMO] Pluto is the "Native-ruler" of Scorpio (meaning it evokes the Sign-program itself and imparts its own characteristics to the Sign), and Mars is the "Advising-ruler"; so, both can be bescribed as "rulers" of the Sign. And every Sign has both of these types of rulers in a regular pattern around the Zodiacal circle. In some cases, it correlates to the Dignities and Disabilities of Traditional-astrology, and in others it does not. My attitude is, respect the Roots (Traditional) and allow for the Branches (Modern)--but I can't be in both places at once.

Traditionalist here (open minded): only Mars rules Scorpio.

Here is an example:

Music style, song title, lyrics, video storyline - all Mars in Scorpio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2I0ulTZWXA

Source: I am Mars in Scorpio native

Cap said:

Traditionalist here (open minded): only Mars rules Scorpio.

Here is an example:

Music style, song title, lyrics, video storyline - all Mars in Scorpio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2I0ulTZWXA

Source: I am Mars in Scorpio native

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If you're at the Roots (Traditional) there is no Pluto (or Ureignus or Neptune) to be factored in: Mars is both Day-ruler of Aries and Night-ruler of Scorpio; and Mars is Exalted in Capricorn, Detriment in Libra and Taurus, and Fall in

david starling said:

If you're at the Roots (Traditional) there is no Pluto (or Ureignus or Neptune) to be factored in: Mars is both Day-ruler of Aries and Night-ruler of Scorpio; and Mars is Exalted in Capricorn, Detriment in Libra and Taurus, and Fall in

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I've used Pluto only in sports astrology but never as a sign ruler. IMO, outers can be of some use in horary (in case of tight conjunction), however as sign rulers they will only produce wrong answers.

Cap said:

I've used Pluto only in sports astrology but never as a sign ruler. IMO, outers can be of some use in horary (in case of tight conjunction), however as sign rulers they will only produce wrong answers.

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Clearly, different systems work for different Astrologers. Otherwise, we'd all be in agreement as to which ones to use.

david starling said:

Clearly, different systems work for different Astrologers. Otherwise, we'd all be in agreement as to which ones to use.

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Very well said, Sir! There are many paths to the truth. I am a pragmatist, first and foremost. I will break all traditional rules if necessary, if that would give me accurate results and I will test everything before making my decision (how in of me). Whatever works for others - it's fine with me.

Cap said:

Very well said, Sir! There are many paths to the truth. I am a pragmatist, first and foremost. I will break all traditional rules if necessary, if that would give me accurate results and I will test everything before making my decision (how in of me). Whatever works for others - it's fine with me.

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Thinking outside of the box, and pushing the envelope means still respecting the box and envelope, without which there would be little to go on. I agree with the "whatever works" principle for each Astrologer. For example, I use Whole-signs in most cases for that very reason.

If Pluto co-rules Scorpio, why not Aries as well?

Though that raises the question of Neptune co-ruling Sagittarius and Pisces...which I'm not sure about. Double for Uranus co-ruling then both Aquarius and Capricorn. ?_?

I think the trans-Neptunian dwarf planet Eris, discovered in 2003-5, is likely the modern co-ruler of Aries. But this is still up for debate.

Jupiter is the ruler of Sagittarius and traditional ruler of Pisces. Neptune is the modern ruler of Pisces. Sagittarius has no modern ruler.

Saturn is the ruler of Capricorn and traditional ruler of Aquarius. Uranus is the modern ruler of Aquarius. Capricorn has no modern ruler.

waybread said:

I think the trans-Neptunian dwarf planet Eris, discovered in 2003-5, is likely the modern co-ruler of Aries. But this is still up for debate.

Jupiter is the ruler of Sagittarius and traditional ruler of Pisces. Neptune is the modern ruler of Pisces. Sagittarius has no modern ruler.

Saturn is the ruler of Capricorn and traditional ruler of Aquarius. Uranus is the modern ruler of Aquarius. Capricorn has no modern ruler.

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I'm confused. Modern astrology only has the outer planets ruling signs? The other planets don't rule anything?

Is there any place I can read up on Eris?

Thanks for the reply.

I'm not sure what you mean. The modern sign rulerships are identified above.

To modern astrologers the modern outer planets do rule different things. Uranus rules aviation and electricity, Neptune rules illnesses that are difficult to diagnose and drugs, Pluto rules radioactive substances and metals mined from under the earth, for example. Traditional western astrologers would use them, however.

It is fair to say that the meanings and rulerships of Eris are still in a state of flux and debate, unsurprising since Eris was so recently discovered.

If you have an e-reader, I recommend Henry Seltzer's book, Eris, The 10th Planet. Otherwise just google "Eris Astrology" to get a sampling of web articles on it.

waybread said:

I'm not sure what you mean. The modern sign rulerships are identified above.

To modern astrologers the modern outer planets do rule different things. Uranus rules aviation and electricity, Neptune rules illnesses that are difficult to diagnose and drugs, Pluto rules radioactive substances and metals mined from under the earth, for example. Traditional western astrologers would use them, however.

It is fair to say that the meanings and rulerships of Eris are still in a state of flux and debate, unsurprising since Eris was so recently discovered.

If you have an e-reader, I recommend Henry Seltzer's book, Eris, The 10th Planet. Otherwise just google "Eris Astrology" to get a sampling of web articles on it.

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By that I meant the traditional ruling planets. I thought you meant that in modern astrology, they ruled no signs and that only the outer three ruled a sign. Like "Capricorn has no modern ruler". But that was my misunderstanding, since I believe the modern ruling planets are the same as traditional ruling planets (Mars ruling Aries, for example) with the addition of the outers as co-rulers, yes?

Thanks for the recommendation! <3

For Pisces, Aquarius, and Scorpio, I use both modern and traditional rulers. Some astrologers use only the modern rulers or the traditional rulers. This is not an area in which modern and traditional astrologers agree.

waybread said:

I think the trans-Neptunian dwarf planet Eris, discovered in 2003-5, is likely the modern co-ruler of Aries. But this is still up for debate.

Jupiter is the ruler of Sagittarius and traditional ruler of Pisces. Neptune is the modern ruler of Pisces. Sagittarius has no modern ruler.

Saturn is the ruler of Capricorn and traditional ruler of Aquarius. Uranus is the modern ruler of Aquarius. Capricorn has no modern ruler.

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Um, there is no one version of "modern" Astrology. It's both eclectic and individualistic. As a Modern-astrologer, I have my own reasons for "elevating" the Ascendant to Rulership-status, and designating it as the "Native-ruler" of (Tropical) Sagittarius, with Jupiter as Co-ruler. I associate the Greco-Roman god Apollo, God of archery, with the Ascendant, so Sagittarian Rulership is a father/son team. The Olympiad Rings signify this relationship as well. Look at the glyph for Sag (Horizonal line and arrow showing the direction of Sun-rise), which also works to describe the meaning of the Ascendant. Apollo was God of Solar light and the "most Greek of the gods". Now, if you mean "generally agreed upon" by Modern-astrologers, then yes, Sagittarius, symbolized by the Greek Centaur-archer, has no generally agreed upon modern ruler.