Isn't vedic astrology utter nuisance?

Jai Kishen

Jai Kishen

Well-known member
Bikram said:
I understand.I used such language because most people in India don't give a **** about western astrology.
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I am from India and i give a **** to western astrology ....
and I know a few of them personally who also give a **** to western astrology ~
its just ur preference ,
According to me Western says 2+2 = 4
Vedic says 2*2 = 4 .

Overall if u read both the charts and predict , you will find 75% of the things similar , its just the approach and method which is different.

P.S : thats my view , not imposing it on anyone ...
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
It is quite possible that Bikram has a particularly difficult and/or unusual natal chart, which would require expert delineation, whether Vedic or Western; also, it is possible that Bikram has been disappointed because his chart might not have been well delineated or correctly or fully delineated by a jyotish expert: Vedic astrology, and Western astrology, when only partially applied, or applied in a very general fashion, outside of expert hands, both can be disappointing in their results: this says nothing, however, about the value of either of these approaches in the hands of true artists who really know what they are doing...
 
Jai Kishen

Jai Kishen

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
also, it is possible that Bikram has been disappointed because his chart might not have been well delineated or correctly or fully delineated by a jyotish expert: Vedic astrology, and Western astrology, when only partially applied, or applied in a very general fashion, outside of expert hands, both can be disappointing in their results: this says nothing, however, about the value of either of these approaches in the hands of true artists who really know what they are doing...
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I agree :smile:
 
Claire19

Claire19

Well-known member
Bikram said:
I'm talking about the vedic charts.In my twenty two years of life, I've not seen a single thing happening as per my vedic chart.It gives a completely flawed view of who I am.BUT my western birth chart(with placidus/equal house system) is completely accurate.I wondered this since I was a teenager.Why do people take so much interest in the vedic birth chart then?
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I just dont get vedic astrology at all. Western works for me but then I am a westerner. Some of the principles of Vedic seem like nonsense to me I have to say and have never bothered to delve further.
 
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Bikram

Well-known member
Re: dr. farr

dr. farr said:
That is quite true! And also its unique approach to transits, called "gochara", which modfies the dasa periods.

Actually we used to have a system of time periods similar to the Vedic dasa in ancient Western astrology, called the firdaria (in old time Persian astrology especially)
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I have a doubt and I haven't understood one thing.What happens when planets move one house forward or backward(retro) in the vedic as compared to the western chart?
I mean, if a planet is present within the first few degrees of a house in vedic.But in the western chart, it is in the previous house.How will the planet behave, like in it's mahadasha or bhukti?
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
Re: dr. farr

It all depends upon which whole system model one is using to attempt to extract delineative meaningfulness from the given astro-data. Simple (and complex:sideways:) as that...
 
filly

filly

Well-known member
Mark said:
I have to agree with much of what you've said, Bikram. Most of the few Indian astrologers I have spoken with have been incredibly inflexible in their views. This isn't all of them, of course, but many. They assume that they have the right way, so any other way must be wrong. I believe, however, that the Truth can be approached in many ways. Both Western and Eastern approaches should be viewed systemically. Each one is a system and therefore each system describes the One Truth in its own way.
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Yep, It put me off right at the begining and I gave up on that for a long while!
Some descriptions of Venus conjunct Mars made me feel like a slut..;( No man would marry me just for that aspect lol
But then it made me realize that I was being of shut mentality too, coz I'm very able to understand different cultures and see where they'r coming from...If we westerners are so open we must show it then. Give a discount to the cultural differences and you get the meaning...

Also the house placements didn't ressonate with me at all, though my tropical date of birth is very correct, I had to add 2minutes to my DOB so the sideral houses match my reality...
My Ascendant is Aligned with Spica, so a few minutes earlier makes Virgo my sideral 1st house which is so wrong and gets even worse as I move along the houses.
This problem may occur if the Tropical Ascendant is in the end or begining of a sign. Star Spica is the start marker of the Vedic Zodiach and it lays on the Virgo/Libra cusps...see where I come from?
Plus Vedic works with all signs coz it must and doesn't work any other way that I've seen it. That's one more reason Placidus in tropical works best for me. A few minutes more or less won't change the Houses placement...

There is a big dispute betwin Vedics about the calculation of the Ayanamsa and I reckon that's where the big problem may lay.
If they get this one right nothing can stop them!
After I corrected this I found the predictive qualities of the Vedic awesome! That's not so bad for a starter non-believer...:D
Too bad it's very difficult to learn but I'll go slowly.

I read that first thing a Vedic Astrologer does is to ask you big happenings in your life in order to match the Chart. And this is for the exact reasons that are mentioned in form of a problem in this thread.

Vedic or Tropical Astrologers should do that accordingly with their syncronizing Systems before spelling out a reading.

Birth time even if accurate may not match events of our lifes...Or even ourselves in one system or the other. (making in our eyes one system better than the other)
So first of all we must realize that (both Vedic and/or Tropical) Charts may need birth time adjustments because neither system is perfect.

After all and what I intend to point out is that I have to tell the Astrologer How my chart IS and not the Chart telling me who I am... Independent of what system I'm using.

We all know that either Astrology works but sometimes and before it happens We have to make it work. ;)
 
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8thstellium

Well-known member
Bikram said:
I'm talking about the vedic charts.In my twenty two years of life, I've not seen a single thing happening as per my vedic chart.It gives a completely flawed view of who I am.BUT my western birth chart(with placidus/equal house system) is completely accurate.I wondered this since I was a teenager.Why do people take so much interest in the vedic birth chart then?
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and yet you are still seking reading to this day...

Link of his latest request below
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=362691#post362691
 
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Bikram

Well-known member
8thstellium said:
and yet you are still seking reading to this day...

Link of his latest request below
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=362691#post362691
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I was not seeking any vedic reading when I created this thread.And that latest request mentioned by you is my only request in the vedic section.Earlier I didn't know vedic is good for mahadasha,antardasha predictions(alongwith yogas & other things) while tropical for personality evaluation.I was confused and did not know that.
 
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Bikram

Well-known member
Virinchi said:
wasting your precious time(more than 20 yrs and still going on.. ) on 'nuisance' is worse than nuisance
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Obviously it didn't take me 20 years to identify my own personality.But when I got my vedic chart made by a local vedic astrologer, he made predictions regarding my "personality" which were totally absurd.Personality evaluations are best made by tropical charts.Whereas mahadasha,antardasha and yogas,etc can only be present in a vedic chart.When I created this thread, I did not know the limitations of vedic and tropical charts.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
That is understandable! Certainly not all astrologers are highly accurate all the time, and some who might know a lot, can't do well in putting what they know into accurate delineations! Many people can-and have-been put-off astrology (and other forms of divination as well) by such disappointments.
 
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Bikram

Well-known member
juicey J. said:
Your only 22, what you did your studying of the vedic system begin, when you were a toddler?
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Like I replied in my previous post, I had got a reading made by a local astrologer.I didn't need to study vedic astrology when I was a toddler.I agree, vedic astrology gives personality predictions correctly to an extent, but tropical is far better in that context.I also admit I made a wrong title.It should've been, "Is tropical better suited than vedic for Personality based predictions?"
And remember I am not talking about mahadasha and bhukti predictions because they can, obviously, only be made using sidereal method.
 
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Bikram

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sethi said:
If your ascendant is scorpio by western standards, and libra by vedic standards, then what you are saying is right basically if you read up the definitions of both these signs. You will find the scorpio ascendant description more applying then the libra one.
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That is what I am stressing on.Personality evaluations should be made by tropical charts.Many vedic astrologers don't agree on that.Now I am not saying all vedic astrologers don't agree on that.
 
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Bikram

Well-known member
Jai Kishen said:
I am from India and i give a **** to western astrology ....
and I know a few of them personally who also give a **** to western astrology
p.s. my opinion not imposing it on anyone...
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I never said vedic astrologers are all the same.Read the complete thread before posting your precious opinions which I know you are not imposing on anyone.
 
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Bikram

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Claire19 said:
I just dont get vedic astrology at all. Western works for me but then I am a westerner. Some of the principles of Vedic seem like nonsense to me I have to say and have never bothered to delve further.
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Mahadasha(sort of a very long transit by a planet) and antardasha/bhukti(sub period of a planet within mahadasha) are important aspects of vedic astrology.You might find the predictions based on these useful.And you might well be disappointed if you employ vedic astrology to make most of your personality or character evaluations.
 
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Bikram

Well-known member
All I am saying is that if a person has a leo sun as per tropical and cancer sun as per vedic, then that person will most likely have the qualities of a leo sun as far as his personality is concerned.But remember that I have used the terms 'most likely' here.Some people might not share this belief.As far as mahadasha and antardasha are concerned, we cannot make accurate predictions without taking the sun as being in cancer.The sun in leo won't work here.The same goes with changes in house placements when looking at the two charts.
I created this thread because many people are stubborn and claim that ALL predictions, including personality predictions, must be made according to the cancer sun, citing the above example.And that the person shall not have any leo sun characterizations.Now, before some freak comes along posting "not everyone thinks so, I never thought so", I again want to say that not all astrologers believe so.
 
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Bikram

Well-known member
All the comments of various people came because I had used a very inappropriate title for which I have already apologized in a reply to some juicey j.
The appropriate title should've been this, "Is tropical approach better than vedic to make the majority of personality based predictions for most people?"
Now if anyone's answer is no, then it's an individual belief, not that it's incorrect.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
In all honesty, and while I am a dedicated tropicalist (who also admires and accepts jyotish), I really would not say that I agree that tropical is better than sidereal-Vedic in personality delineation: now, I almost always use tropical Western for such delineations, but I have seen some remarkable personality delineations from certain Vedic adepts that are every bit as accurate; my problem with the sidereal is the ayanamsa correction used (that is why I have been somewhat experimenting with the Alcyone/Krittika ayanamsa, which is almost 6 degrees later than the Lahiri)

Now, I will stick with what has worked best for me in this area (tropical); but I simply cannot go along and say that tropical is-for certain-"better" or more accurate, than Vedic, in this field of character/personality delineation.
 
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Bikram

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
In all honesty, and while I am a dedicated tropicalist (who also admires and accepts jyotish), I really would not say that I agree that tropical is better than sidereal-Vedic in personality delineation: now, I almost always use tropical Western for such delineations, but I have seen some remarkable personality delineations from certain Vedic adepts that are every bit as accurate; my problem with the sidereal is the ayanamsa correction used (that is why I have been somewhat experimenting with the Alcyone/Krittika ayanamsa, which is almost 6 degrees later than the Lahiri)

Now, I will stick with what has worked best for me in this area (tropical); but I simply cannot go along and say that tropical is-for certain-"better" or more accurate, than Vedic, in this field of character/personality delineation.
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Like I said it's my view.Others' views are certainly not incorrect.For eg, my ascendant changes with the two charts.Both the characterizations are true for me, even though they are quite different.But the tropical ascendant suits me far more.I know everyone will not believe in the same.This belief can change for everyone based on their individual experiences.
 
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Bikram

Well-known member
filly said:
Also the house placements didn't ressonate with me at all, though my tropical date of birth is very correct, I had to add 2minutes to my DOB so the sideral houses match my reality...
My Ascendant is Aligned with Spica, so a few minutes earlier makes Virgo my sideral 1st house which is so wrong and gets even worse as I move along the houses.
This problem may occur if the Tropical Ascendant is in the end or begining of a sign.Birth time even if accurate may not match ourselves in one system or the other.
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House placements(and signs) in sidereal are best used for prediction of mahadasha, bhukti, yogas, etc.Using them to provide personality description will not always be satisfactory.
 
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