my friend troubled son

I have a dear friend whose older son is deeply troubled, just recently got out of a medical facility trying to get psych help for him. He has become emotionally, verbally & even physically abusive. He has Asperger's. A couple of years ago he was stable, had improved tremendously but since his parents divorce conflicts turned to the worse (everything got worse because my friend petitioned for more money to take care of sons, to pay for the educations and medical treatments), well, you can imagine. It is suspected that his father has been manipulating him in order to get back at his mother, also that he took him to a prostitute or something along those lines, (mother says she can prove this last and the matter is in court). Boy just turned 18 yesterday. Incident allegedly happened last year.

Just yesterday he got out of hospital more or less calm... Called his father from his granmother's house and after that... became combative and uncontrolable.

I feel for my friend, it is hard for a mother to suffer something like this. She has strugled all her life, has been mistreated since she was a child. She is a teacher and even among all this, was just about to finish her tesis. She is an Aries, a very spiritual person also.

The hospital released him... I do not know if it was because of they believed him "stable" or because of the age and legal issue. Mental care here sometimes... is not that great.

-What will happen with the boy? Will he understand?

-Is the father negatively influencing his son?

-If it can be known by this chart, what will be the better course of action? He insist on going with his father, but father does not believe in his treatment (maybe as a form of denying the problems of his son) and thus when the boy went to stay with him, allegedly did not gave him his meds. Also he was opposed to the emergency hospitalitation, even after seeing him altered, combative and even learning that the boy hurt his mother repetedly with a door.

-Will the situation be resolved positively in the end?

----------------------

I noticed that in the third house, there is the Moon with Pluto, in trine with Saturn in the first: Can this be representing my friend? In another chart, i looked for the asteroids name of my friend and her son: My friend's name was close to the Saturn in the 1st house and her son's name was between the Moon and that Saturn.

-The MC is ruled by the Moon: this maybe means the mother/parenting issue being discussed.

-The ruler of the 4th house (end of matter) is ruled by Saturn, which is in the 1st, in Scorpio. could this mean that the matter needs to be resolved by medication?

-I also fear for the safety of my friend... It is an awfull thing to fear, but i have to ask: Will he try to kill her mother? Will he end up in jail?


Any other comment that can help will be much appreciated.

Prisma

It appears that this is a Question Chart based on the questions you asked. Unfortunately, as such its not a valid chart. In Horary, questions can only be asked once. And to be only asked once it means that only the person most closely connected to the person can ask the question. But in this case, lots of people could ask the same question, so it has the potential of multiple birth times. This is impossible in astrology, so the question chart is invalid.

Second, in Horary, questions have to have a time limit until answering. While not all have one, at the least there has to be an un-stated but obvious time line. Open ended questions are not valid in Horary.

And event chart is one where: what happened on this date? What is the event going on at the time of this birthing moment. So, in my opinion, since you actually asked questions, and you told us what is going on here, this cannot be called an event chart. In an event chart, the only question is, "What the Hay is going on here", or "Why does this person want astrology from me?" I ask that question at the moment anyone contacts me for astrological analysis. it helps me decide if I want to do it at all.

While I was not trained as an expert in Horary, I was trained in it, since my teacher was a Master Teacher in the Ivy Goldstein Jacobson Training School, and IVY is known more for her expertise in Horary than almost anything else. One of the more famous volumes of hers in the 20th century is SIMPLIFIED HORARY ASTROLOGY.

I think its probably better to look at this boy's natal chart, there must be quite a bit of activity going on there, check transits and progressions, and you may see when things may get better. But I'll give it a go with this horary chart...

Since you asked the question you are Venus, your friend is ruler of 11th Sun and her son Jupiter (ruler of 5th from 11th).

Both Sun (the mother) and Jupiter (the son) are in detriment - great debility which confirms what you've said. A planet is such debility is acting against its natural goodness and has not much power to act. Jupiter recently stopped going Rx but it is still in detriment so the road to recovery is not here yet.

Saturn is the father (7th from 11th) and with Sun placed in his dignities, it does seem the father has upper hand. The mother is quite powerless at this stage. Moon is also in detriment and aspecting Saturn, in dignities of Saturn. Moon ruling 10th, so any decisions from authorities may go in favour of the father, unfortunately. With Moon being in such bad shape, things may continue this way for sometime yet, it just shows how difficult and depressive the situation is currently.

I wonder who Venus is, there is a trine from Venus to Jupiter, Venus is someone who acts as a helper. Ruling first house, it could be you or another female in this boys life. But she is also in dignities of Saturn. Could be someone from the father's side.

The other thing is both Sun and Jupiter strongly placed in dignities of Mercury, Mercury here is the messenger, ruler of 12th - hospitals, instituitions also ruler of medication for the Son (10th from son's 1st house). Mercury in mutual reception with Jupiter, if the boy gets the proper treatment, he will get much better. There is this square and Mercury is prohibited to aspect Jupiter, by whom? By Mars, depositior of Saturn (the father).

So it seems the father will keep on being essential to detrimental state of the son, but eventually Mercury will get to Jupiter, and the right treatment will get to him.

Jupiter will also enter Cancer later this year (mid year) were its exalted. It is possible that this boy will get better and start recovering around that time. But for more insight, I think you need to look into his natal chart.

Best wishes

I would look at the Mercury return from the standpoint of seeing cognitive functioning. There is a great deal of information that could be obtained in that way.

And I agree completely with Rafaella!

The issue with third party charts is that it's often difficult to frame them. Like for instance, Rafaella's delineation goes from the First to the Eleven to the Third, when it seems like just going to the Seventh would be the most appropriate. None of your four questions that you pointed out are about his mother, so trying to get this connection to the actual queisted from his mother doesn't make a lot of sense as he would define her placement (since his future is the one being inquired about) rather than her defining his. This difficulty comes from having to connect people to the question that are unconnected. In that respect, I agree with Zarathu's first post that you're probably not the best person to ask this question. That's not to imply that you don't have genuine feelings of concern for your friend, but I think that would be the more appropriate direction to invest your horary-ing in.

Turning charts in horary is a common practice. Of course in doing so, there is more room for error and trying to find the right planets to signify the significators can be daunting one and could lead to wrong judgement, yes sure.

The querent has a genuine concern regarding her friend and the friend' son, so to me this chart is very much valid and appropriate. But I do agree to make the astrologer's work easier, it would have been much better to have the mother ask the question or someone related to the boy...

The querent is most concerned with the friend and what the friend had to deal with, and she is 'related' to the mother, rather than the boy. Yes one can use the 7th for the boy, but then you would again need to turn the chart and use radical 4th and 10th for the parents. It makes more sense to me to use 11th for the friend first, as the friend is the one connected to querent, not the boy.

Thanks for your replies. I still have much to learn and in the moment and emotion tried to frame the questions, etc, as I could. My friend and I have been friends since grade school. Curiosly, that day, when my son asked me about why I did not liked the boy, I corrected him saying that it was not that I did not liked him, that I did not liked his attitude, and went on without thinking and said also, "he is my sister's son and I love her very much". She is not my relative, but in fact she has been much closer to me that my own family lately.

I wonder who Venus is, there is a trine from Venus to Jupiter, Venus is someone who acts as a helper.

Click to expand...

During those past days I had been taking care of the boy's younger brother. I also got her conected with a female lawyer, who even works pro-bono cases, to help her with all these legal troubles & the divorce.

The father may have a significant other, do not know. Interestingly, when my friend petitioned for more money to take care of the boys, he responded that he wanted to keep the younger one, not the older (so he did only had to pay half the alimony and not deal much with the more difficult one). This was of course, dissmissed by the judge. Now the one he kind of rejected is the one siding with him. It happens.

That day of the incident, the mother, my friend, was bringing the older one, to be reunited with his brother at my house and her plans were to at least celebrate a little with cake and pizza...it was not to be. As I said, the boy became very unstable.

That night my poor friend decided to leave the kid sleepping in her mother's house. Even that was battle: the boy was defiant and obstructed the way out of the house of his grandmother. It was several hours until she could get out of there and finally get to sleep.

During these 2 days (yesterday & today), maybe also because of the medication, my friend tells me that he is more calmed. Yes, he still hates her guts, but at least has not been verbally abusive. She only wants to help him... allegedly his emotional or mental understanding is that of a 12-14 years old (that is also why the sex trip that it seems his father took him is all the more reprehensible). But she does not want to keep on having to put up with his abuse, she wants him to understand the consequense of his actions. She is very much clear that another incident, and he will be either on jail or in involuntary hospitalitation.

I worry not only because of her tragic family history (mistreated by her mother, brother, abandoned by her father, the divorce, the situation with her son), but because she is also quite sick.

I asked her the time of birth, she told me as closely as she could remembered. I will post two: one with that hour and one without.


Will keep on praying for her. Will see what happens.

Rafaella, I think you've mostly just demonstrated why many in the astrological community consider horary to be pie in the sky. Having genuine concern and interest doesn't necessarily translate into being the right person to ask a question, and this is a concern that pops up in the horary community quite often. I don't really think this is the thread to have that whole discussion in, but I find the thinking that worrying about someone gives someone proper authority to ask a question about that other person's business to be a little shaky at best. Of course, I'm somewhat old fashioned. I don't really think it's appropriate for people to ask their own questions either.

rafaella said:

The querent is most concerned with the friend and what the friend had to deal with, and she is 'related' to the mother, rather than the boy.

Click to expand...

But the friend's condition was not any of the questions asked, and we can't put new questions to a chart that the querent didn't intend.

Yes one can use the 7th for the boy, but then you would again need to turn the chart and use radical 4th and 10th for the parents. It makes more sense to me to use 11th for the friend first, as the friend is the one connected to querent, not the boy.

Click to expand...

I wasn't arguing that one shouldn't derive houses, just that trying to connect unconnected people often leads us down roads that are challenging to interpret fully, because by trying to dig around to find people in relation to others, we typically lose out on the symbolism staring us in the face.

Prisma said:

Thanks for your replies. I still have much to learn and in the moment and emotion tried to frame the questions, etc, as I could. My friend and I have been friends since grade school. Curiosly, that day, when my son asked me about why I did not liked the boy, I corrected him saying that it was not that I did not liked him, that I did not liked his attitude, and went on without thinking and said also, "he is my sister's son and I love her very much". She is not my relative, but in fact she has been much closer to me that my own family lately.

Click to expand...

That's lovely! Having friendships that last such lengths of time and survive the tests of life are blessings, but I think it would have been more appropriate to have a discussion with your friend about horary and the insight it can give her into her situation, then let her make the decision about using it or not. This is what I've done with my friends and family who are going through difficult times.

Anyway, enough bellyaching about that. I think your friend's condition will probably get worse before it gets better. Interestingly, the Sun's only connection is a Square to Saturn which is her Sixth and Seventh house (illness and apparently ex-husband), but by being in Aquarius Saturn receives the Sun and so his malice is restrained somewhat. I'm worried about the situation getting worse as the Square separates and the Sun loses that reception. There should be a bit of a change for the better as Venus inches closer towards the conjunction with the Sun and alleviates some of the debility, but it's going to stretch on for awhile. A small bit of a bright spot, I would encourage her to continue to use the courts to chip away at her ex-husbands parental rights when it comes to the boy (especially regarding his medical decisions and whatnot) because it doesn't look like her ex-husband will get a lot of sympathy from them based on the reception between the Moon and Saturn.

Though, a bit more practical, somewhat unrelated advice. This is a situation that's going to be long in developing, so if it's something you intend to work with, I think it's best you and your friend seek out a personal professional astrologer if you want to continue to get astrological advice about the situation. Petitioning a forum often becomes chaotic and it's good to have someone who can keep up with the story as it plays out.

Also, is that natal chart you posted correct? Because it looks freakishly similar to the horary and the two charts are not similar.

Sorry KnS, I still disagree with you... And why would you interpret this chart, when you first criticise my delineation and the querent for asking this third party question, it kind of takes away from the argument you are trying to make, dont you think?

Well, nonetheless. I wanted to make some points here...I wish Lilly was still here amongst us so we could ask him what can we ask and not. But good thing we have his rules for delineating whether chart is valid - some may consider his famous 'considerations before judgements' or checking radicality to see if the planetery hour is same as Asc signs etc.

I'm sure KnS you have more expereince in astrology than a lot of us in this forum, but I in my humble studies have learned tecniques mostly from books of well published authors. If indeed one can't ask third party question with genuine worry and interest for the well being of the quesited, then why ask horary at all? Is it just about me and things that concern me? Yes, I might be off topic here, but I wanted to make a point.

Secondly, I frequently come across reknowned astrologers talk about turning charts, the right tecnique to do this. E.g Frawley talks quite extensively in his book about turning charts, page 138 chapter 14. Lehman uses charts that are definitely 3rd party questions. She has one of her astrology students asking whether the client of that astrology student would win the lottery. (The astrology student was the querent asking about her client). Another chart, page 240 a client asks regarding the death of her mother in law and whether she would get the share from the family trust after the death of the said quesited. To me this last example is a bit disturbing, ethically wrong.. but my personal opinion.

Another chart from Lehman's book, page 190, a mother wondering if her son would be divorced or not - to me its a 3rd party question, this too.

Lilly talk about asking trivial questions, or where querent is out to test the astrologer, therefore considereations against judgement are handy in that situation.

The querent in this question had asked way to many questions for me to just focus on one. Her question was regarding the mother as well, she actually asked if the boy would kill her friend, which I was uncomfortable in looking into and therefore, I did not answer this. I'm sure a paid professional astrologer would most likely spend sometime asking the querent what exactly is her interest in this and what is her main question before looking at the chart and choosing the right houses and planets to look into. Well this is forum, and I'm no professional astrologer and do not claim to be, I am a student of horary just applying the tecniques that I have learned in my self study. And if someone disagrees, then so be it.

Of course, I'm somewhat old fashioned. I don't really think it's appropriate for people to ask their own questions either

Click to expand...

hmm that might be the main issue here...

I'll post the charts again:

1st the horary with which I started the thread: Asc. is Libra, M.C. is Cancer.

2nd: chart with time of birth, as remembered by the mother. Asc. is Cancer, Mc. Libra.

3rd chart: date of birth, no birth time.


BTW, my apologies if the way I asked or why I ask caused any trouble. I was very concerned, and the fact is that in a way, the mother was also afraid, to the point that she was thinking also in her safety when not allowing the boy to spend the night at their house just yet. He may be still inmature (emotionally, etc), but he has the body of a grown man, he is quite tall and heavy and she still kind of hurt from his last aggression.

It is also interesting as of how the debate about astrology helps to understand different theories and points of view about it. It also kind of helps to see some broader ramifications about the questions and responses, etc.

BTW, Kimbermoon, you had something right: it seems that the boy had been also experiencing nightmares.

Personally (in my opinion) the OP had the "valid divination right" to legitimately ask the horary question due to the OP's DIRECT connection* to person (and people) asked about (if there had been no direct connection, or it were an idle curiosity question, then I would have considered the question to be invalid) However, the putting of the horary question was not clear (at least not to me) and seemed (to me) to involve multiple questions (which can make estimating the horary answers to the various questions difficult) I definitely believe that analysis of the natal and the directions (or progressions) from the natal, plus transits, particularly to certain natal points (such as the Lot of Danger and Violence, the Lot of the Mother, the Lot of the Father, etc etc) would provide better clarity regarding the OP's concerns, than would horary divination.



*in this case, personal friendship with the mother and having had personal direct contact with the son, father, etc.

rafealla said:

Sorry KnS, I still disagree with you... And why would you interpret this chart, when you first criticise my delineation and the querent for asking this third party question, it kind of takes away from the argument you are trying to make, dont you think?

Click to expand...

A good question. Partly because I felt bad for poo-pooing on the thread without really offering anything. Though, my argument isn't that Prisma can't ask about her friend's condition and if it will improve, but I don't think using her friend to get a read out on her friend's son is the appropriate way to go (partly because this would show her son's effect on her, but not necessarily the state he is in). I still think getting the friend to ask if she's at all interested is the absolute best way to go about this.

Well, nonetheless. I wanted to make some points here...I wish Lilly was still here amongst us so we could ask him what can we ask and not. But good thing we have his rules for delineating whether chart is valid - some may consider his famous 'considerations before judgements' or checking radicality to see if the planetery hour is same as Asc signs etc.

I'm sure KnS you have more expereince in astrology than a lot of us in this forum, but I in my humble studies have learned tecniques mostly from books of well published authors. If indeed one can't ask third party question with genuine worry and interest for the well being of the quesited, then why ask horary at all? Is it just about me and things that concern me? Yes, I might be off topic here, but I wanted to make a point.

Click to expand...

The considerations before judgment that are passed down to us are not used to assess whether or not the question is the querent's business, they're to protect the astrologer from fishy questions. Bonatti mentions several times in his horary book to make sure that the matter the querent asks about is any of their business, and this is something that I've taken to heart. I've been spoiled by extremely beautiful horaries resulting from direct connection to the matter to the point where most charts just seem like cheap knockoffs. :/

There used to be a lot more written about how horary was supposed to be done, but the strictness of it seems to have dropped off as time went by. There is supposed to be a period of reflection and "prayer" (whatever that means to you) before the querent decides to ask a question to an astrologer, there are a lot of implications behind horary questioning that are not very comfortable thoughts to modern man and the querent is responsible for whether they choose to utilize it or not.

Secondly, I frequently come across reknowned astrologers talk about turning charts, the right tecnique to do this. E.g Frawley talks quite extensively in his book about turning charts, page 138 chapter 14. Lehman uses charts that are definitely 3rd party questions. She has one of her astrology students asking whether the client of that astrology student would win the lottery. (The astrology student was the querent asking about her client). Another chart, page 240 a client asks regarding the death of her mother in law and whether she would get the share from the family trust after the death of the said quesited. To me this last example is a bit disturbing, ethically wrong.. but my personal opinion.

Click to expand...

Yes, I'm often a bit disappointed by the types of charts presented by many "leading horarists". I was unable to finish Anthony Louis's horary book for similar reasons. :/ Turning charts is definitely a thing, but common sense must be applied to what's appropriate for a particular person to know about the situations of others, especially when discussing horary with that individual can lead to better, more personal charts. The more people who know how astrology can have an impact in assisting them with difficult times in their life, the better for everyone involved!

The querent in this question had asked way to many questions for me to just focus on one. Her question was regarding the mother as well, she actually asked if the boy would kill her friend, which I was uncomfortable in looking into and therefore, I did not answer this. I'm sure a paid professional astrologer would most likely spend sometime asking the querent what exactly is her interest in this and what is her main question before looking at the chart and choosing the right houses and planets to look into. Well this is forum, and I'm no professional astrologer and do not claim to be, I am a student of horary just applying the tecniques that I have learned in my self study. And if someone disagrees, then so be it.

Click to expand...

Several questions regarding the same topic can actually be very straightforward. A good horary chart encapsulates the whole situation, so you should be able to see the different yet related answers floating around in there somewhere. If I can find an example of one from my files I'll send it to you.

We're all students and we're all coming from different levels of experience and oftentimes from different philosophical views, so no worries. I'm not upset and I hope I haven't upset you either.

hmm that might be the main issue here...

Click to expand...

Hehe, I think the main issue is too many DIY horarists and students of Frawley.

Prisma said:

BTW, my apologies if the way I asked or why I ask caused any trouble.

Click to expand...

Don't apologize! This is somewhat normal.

rafaella said:

...I wonder who Venus is, there is a trine from Venus to Jupiter, Venus is someone who acts as a helper. Ruling first house, it could be you or another female in this boys life. But she is also in dignities of Saturn. Could be someone from the father's side.

...

Click to expand...

Could Venus represent more than one person?

-His grandmother (from the mother side), he stayed at her house that day.
-both lawyers, my friend & the one from the father are females. Father's lawyer... is a tricky one.


Boy aparently called his father or someone, left the grandmother's house without her noticing, and went with other relatives from his father's side. Then alleged all sorts of lies on a legal document to make the mother appear unfit.

In all this, at least the lawyer my friend has now seems to be capable and that can help her. She seems like a blessing in all this. Will continue with the praying.

Venus typically represents female family members or relatives...indeed the grandmother; sisters, aunts, cousins...sorry to hear of this latest complication involving lies and falsifying documents...

Prisma said:

Could Venus represent more than one person?

-His grandmother (from the mother side), he stayed at her house that day.
-both lawyers, my friend & the one from the father are females. Father's lawyer... is a tricky one.


Boy aparently called his father or someone, left the grandmother house without her noticing, and went with other relatives from his father side. Then alleged all sorts of lies on a legal document to make the mother appear unfit.

In all this, at least the lawyer my friend has now seems to be capable and that can help her. She seems like a blessing in all this. Will continue with the praying.

Click to expand...

It happens. My friend has indeed tried her best under the circunstances.

rafaella said:

...
Saturn is the father (7th from 11th) and with Sun placed in his dignities, it does seem the father has upper hand. The mother is quite powerless at this stage. Moon is also in detriment and aspecting Saturn, in dignities of Saturn. Moon ruling 10th, so any decisions from authorities may go in favour of the father, unfortunately. With Moon being in such bad shape, things may continue this way for sometime yet, it just shows how difficult and depressive the situation is currently...

...The other thing is both Sun and Jupiter strongly placed in dignities of Mercury, Mercury here is the messenger, ruler of 12th - hospitals, instituitions also ruler of medication for the Son (10th from son's 1st house). Mercury in mutual reception with Jupiter, if the boy gets the proper treatment, he will get much better. There is this square and Mercury is prohibited to aspect Jupiter, by whom? By Mars, depositior of Saturn (the father)...

Click to expand...

This has, sadly been proved oh-so-painfully-true.

-Not only she has been continually on the loosing side, but now has been threatened and maybe even accused, using the dirtiest of the lies that someone can used when facing a divorce. The boy is almost unrecognisable and even seems to be enjoyng the torture he is submitting the mother. Lately the younger boy has also been manipulated to further destroy her, telling her even that if she does not do this or that, he is going to accuse her of all sort of taboos, and , of course, none of those conversations can be proved in a court because the he says-she says dinamics, and such.

...So it seems the father will keep on being essential to detrimental state of the son...

Click to expand...

-She also had a meeting with a doctor of the older boy, who she has not seen in maybe more than a month. Dr. says that boy is out of control, and she even fears going down the path of squizophrenia, and she is quite certain that he is also like that because he is not taking meds. She cried. Among of all this, her lawyer have not been such great help as we hoped. She is kind of resignated to this character assasination and has even kind of make peace with the notion that after all her sacrifices, she even ends up in jail and or at least with no job and even no lawyer, be this because of almost no money or the realization that she can not change lawyers because no money, does not qualify to legal assintance because her salary (go figure!) and or the ineffective representation is too distracted with other matters to even help her or care more.

It is like watching a bible-JOB-female & XXI century version.

I have even become guarded, although keep been an emotional support, because those people seem to stop at nothing just to win and have also atacked by legal lies and using the boys, others former allies of my friend.

God, please help us, help her and helps us help her... protect us in battle and from evil (it will sound crazy, but my friend has even fear for black magic ot something along those lines).

but eventually Mercury will get to Jupiter, and the right treatment will get to him...Jupiter will also enter Cancer later this year (mid year) were its exalted. It is possible that this boy will get better and start recovering around that time. But for more insight, I think you need to look into his natal chart.

Click to expand...

Let us hope.

Thanks for updating. Very sorry for the problems you and your friend are still facing. I know its very diffiuclt to stand by and watch your friend go through so many issues, one feels very powerless. But I suppose you really can't do much, just be there for her emotional and mental support.

I don't understand how can the hospital release this boy when he is in such bad shape? He is a threat to himself and possibly his family. When a close young relative of mine developed mental disorder -which we later understood was manic depressive disorder -she was placed in mental hospital for a month, she got much better, yet still was slightly unstable. She was then 18 as well. Her behaviour only got more stable when she got older, she is on medication, possiby for rest of her life. She is now in her late 20s, married and has a child. Life is good. So perhaps, with this boy, only time will heal him and a more stable life around him. What his parents have to realise is that they have to stop fighting amongst themselves and try to unite and help their children.

But from what you wrote, this boy's father is way too immature to handle this situation with his son's health in mind. He is placing his needs of revenge first. I obviously don't know why he would have such negative attitude against the mother, but sadly in cases where there is bitter divorce, children are the ones to pay the price. But I'm wondering isn't there anyone at all who could possibly talk some sense into the father, get him to understand the seriousness of the son's mental health and need for medication and proper care? Someone who he respects and would listen to? Someone who could get the father to put his ego issues aside and focus on his child? There must be somebody, even this doctor should call the father for a meeting and have a one to one serious chat. The doctor is an authority figure and may possibly be able to reason with this man, possibly. One can at least try.

Judging by the chart, the mother is really helpless and has a long battle ahead. She can't really do much to remedy, but maybe she can try make sure the younger son doesn't go that path as well. The eldest might just be lost for now....

Remember nothing is forever, and this too shall pass, as they say. With time things will heal and life will be back to normal.

I wish you all the best!

rafaella said:

...I don't understand how can the hospital release this boy when he is in such bad shape?...

Click to expand...

Me neither. "Such is life" has become around here a way of life.

But I'm wondering isn't there anyone at all who could possibly talk some sense into the father, get him to understand the seriousness of the son's mental health and need for medication and proper care? Someone who he respects and would listen to? Someone who could get the father to put his ego issues aside and focus on his child? There must be somebody, even this doctor should call the father for a meeting and have a one to one serious chat. The doctor is an authority figure and may possibly be able to reason with this man, possibly. One can at least try.

Click to expand...

His family is behind him and know about all that has been going on, seem to just care about to be the ones who win no matter what. Who knows, maybe around the time describe earlier (summer), maybe they experience a good scare and reap some of the bad they have sow and end up getting the boy in hospital. But this is also a tragedy. He was even an honor student, his mother and him where making the first arrangements for college and/or military . The Doctor... do not know. Last thing he said (as I know) was that he had to "re-evaluate things" at left it at that, whatever that means.

Judging by the chart, the mother is really helpless and has a long battle ahead. She can't really do much to remedy, but maybe she can try make sure the younger son doesn't go that path as well.

Click to expand...

She has tried. The younger is getting abusive and rebellious too, is bitter also. At one point it was like "mom is loosing, better side with dad to survive" or something along those lines.

Remember nothing is forever, and this too shall pass, as they say. With time things will heal and life will be back to normal.

I wish you all the best!

Click to expand...

Let us hope. Thanks.