How to make predictions

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Predictions are most exciting and most experience requiring field in Astrology.
Making correct and valuable predictions is not an easy task at all.
Throughout the history this art of making predictions was the most required from the astrologers. Every person that I meet, the first thing that this person asks me ones s/he knows that I'm practicing astrology, is the question: "What will gonna happen to me in the following period/years/months", or "When I'll marry", "When I will succeed in career" and etc..
These are the questions on which almost all the people are expecting answers from an astrologer. There are very few people who would be interested in character/temperament delineation. They all want to know "What will gonna happen to me".
To predict correct is not an easy task. It is much more easy to make retrospection then to predict, that's for sure. But making retrospection with certain technique is one of the ways learning predictive astrology, because as Morin stays, we are learning to expect that the similar thing would happen once we know what this particular celestial configuration has produced before.

There are some techniques with which we can examine the timing of a certain event in native life. I tend to agree with Bernadette Brady when she says that knowledge and intuition has to go hand in hand. Intuition plays very great role in predicting events. You see, 9th house can be religious event but a journey as well. How can we distinguish? By applying our intuition and experience as astrologers.

The techniques of which I'm aware at the moment, for predicting are as follows:

Transits - this is the natural movement (non conversed) of the planet as they are at particular moment in the heaven, and their aspects to our natal configurations. This relationship is called 'Transits'.
I know that many traditionalists would agree that they were the last tool to which the elders would reach for, but I tend not to neglect the modern researches in this field. I love traditional astrology and traditional authors, but as Rob Hand said: "If something is traditional it doesn't automatically means its right, or if something is modern doesn't automatically means is wrong".
For the sake of playing with traditional subjects on this particular traditional forum I would avoid using the Outer planets, though I'm not neglecting it in my practice. However, I do not begin my predictive analysis with them.

Solar Returns - I'm not aware if this technique was something explecitelly used in medieval ages, but I know that I've learned a great deal from Morin and from Volguine who lived in the beginning of 20th century, but I found his writings not so much 'psychologized' and he relies with great deal on Morin and other French authors before him.

Primary Directions - This technique is maybe one of the oldest one for making perfect (to date!) timing with Astrology.
There are many different types of it (Regiomontanus, Placidus, Placidus under the pole and etc..). I will not enter in to detail analysis of all different techniques, I'm just giving an overall overview of the techniques.

Secondary Progressions - day for a year. This technique is relying on symbolic projection of the planetary configurations in each day after our birth, projecting them in years ahead.
For example, the 1st day of our life is symbolic representation of the 1st year of our life. The 20th day of the 20th year of life and etc..
I think that Secondary Progressions are a little bit ore 'modern' then the other techniques I talk about here, but I'm not sure, I'm not much aware of the historical developments.

Directing by terms (or Directed Ascendant) - This is a technique in which the changing of the term ruler of the directed Ascendant is somewhat a Lord of the Years in which Directed Ascendant stays in one term.
It gives broader view of the influences of the ruler, in similar manner as the Profected Lord of the Year, or the Lord of the Firadaria gives an overall clime for the certain period in persons life.
We will see this lord in use later on when we will discuss all the techniques with an example.

Profections - This method is also one of the oldest.
The Ascendant's Sign is profecting One Sign per a Year, making a full circle in 12 years. This technique is explained in great deal in the works of the Hellenistic Astrologer Vetius Vallens.

Firdaria - This is a method which is very similar to the Vedic Dashas method, where a certain planet has rulership over a certain years of the native's life.
We discussed this technique in another thread.
The technique is giving a general clime of the persons life in certain period of time.

There are certain Hellenistic techniques which I'll discuss later in the thread.

For now I want to stay focused and try some of the techniques with an practical example.
I will do that in my next post.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Solar Returns - I'm not aware if this technique was something explecitelly used in medieval ages, but I know that I've learned a great deal from Morin and from Volguine who lived in the beginning of 20th century, but I found his writings not so much 'psychologized' and he relies with great deal on Morin and other French authors before him
Without distracting from your focus Omnisphericus, I shall just briefly mention that approximately two thousand years ago, Vettius Valens gives directions for the Calculation of a Solar Return ... except I think he called it the "Solar Revolution"...


QUOTE FROM the website of member Zoidsoft at Astrology X-Files http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/solar-return.html

"The Hellenistic astrologers did not calculate solar returns in the same way that we do. This was because they had a problem when it came to finding the ascendant for the nativity for the year because it was not possible in their time to observe the exact position of the Sun. What they did was to keep all of the planets in the position of the birthdate while looking for the time that the Moon returned to its natal degree in the month that the Sun was in the sign of the return. When the Moon returned under these conditions, the sign rising at that time was considered to be the ascendant for the solar return.

As Valens says, "After reckoning accurately the stars at the birthday of the current year, we will find the horoskopos as follows... With the Sun still in the natal zoidion, we examine where the Moon is at that time and at what hour it arrives by recurrence at the degree which it had at the nativity." . What the Hellenistic astrologers were thinking was that the rate of the Moon's transit and the rate of the sign's rising both correspond to roughly 2 hours in time, and that the position of the Moon would at least give the rising sign . (All 12 signs are covered in a 24 hour period by the earth's rotation and the Moon takes 2 hours to go one degree or 12 degrees + per day. In other words, in the time it takes for the Moon to go through one degree, one sign has completely risen.) The return of the Moon is measured so that as soon as the Moon enters the first minute of the natal degree (in other words enters its own moira), the sign rising is the solar return ascendant. An example of this is if your natal Moon was at 21 Virgo 23, the Greeks would have returned the Moon to 21 Virgo 00. After you have determined the degree of the ascendant from the Moon's return, you place the planets in the position they were in at the birthdate (including the Moon)"

Anyhow, just an interesting historical note! :smile:

 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
An example

Here I will discuss a chart of a person who this year went to look up for his 'happiness' in another country, to find a profitable place for his career and success in life.
The person is 30 years old.

This time I will leave the outer planets on the chart, you can neglect them if you like. (Alchabitius house system is used)
b9j578.png


We can see that this person is having great deal of planets in the 8th house.
But do also notice that this planets by progressions will enter the 9th somewhere through out life.
The person is also having Moon in 9th.
I would assume by looking at this chart that this person would travel a lot throughout the life because Moon is bringing changes and restlessness all the time. We can expect this whenever some directions would come to the Moon or Venus is involved, because Venus is ruler of 9th.

Somewhere on the birth date in the later months of 2011 I've predicted to this person that in March-April he will go to a foreign country.
He went in the foreign country in the late days in March 2012.
How did I saw this?

35c09y0.png


On the bottom left is the natal chart, on the upper right is the Solar Return for 2011/2012.
What I've noticed is that the Ascendant of the natal chart falls into the annual 9th.
Having this in mind I went to look for other testimonies.
But I will first ask Dr.Farr is he reads this discussion to help me noticing the timings in the Solar Returns with some of the timing methods in SR he mentioned them in another thread. The person went to the foreign country in the 7th month after the birthday.

The Directed Ascendant is in 7Aries. This falls in the Terms of Venus.
So Venus is having certain rulership in this period of his life.
Venus will stay in this Term (from 5-10 Aries) till the end of 2013.
Venus rules natal 9th. (This is another testimony that the person will travel in these years.

Profected Sign is in Leo which the natural 7th. This brings 3rd in 9th and 9th in 3rd - Travel is again indicated.

Primary Directions:
1 March 2012 Venus came in Sextile to Natal Mercury.
Well, Mercury is natally in 8th and rules 8th and 4th, but he rules the SR ascendant, and we already know that Venus rules the natal 9th and is not in by directions in 9th and is a ruler of the Directed Ascendant by term, i.e. this is called Divisor.
Also, the person is in Mercury/Venus firdaria. Again, Venus accentuated.
21 March 2012 Jupiter by directions came to natal Moon in 9th. Moon in 9th naturally brings many travels and journeys (remember she has Joy in 3rd!).
Jupiter, the greater Benefic is ruling the natal 10th - Destiny - Future and etc.
All this gives us a conclussion:
"In the late March of 2012 the person will seek his destiny in foreign country. He will find Job (10th) and make some money (Jupiter rules 2nd)."
Because Mercury is involved through Firdaria rulership and receiving direction by Venus, and we know that Mercury is ruler of 8th in the 8th in natal, and also ruler of 4th and 5th, this will bring some frustration in relation to the family and his Love Affairs (because he do not have any children).
But because the 5th is on the SR Ascendant, can we assume that this person would have child in near future in that foreign country?
It is very probable but we would not make any such prediction on this testimony yet.
Mercury in the SR is in 3rd which also indicates Travel, a travel for Work.
This Mercury falls in natal 7th, which again brings in surface the Relationship.
Can we assume that this person would meet a woman (Venus sextile Mercury)
and maybe would impregnate a child?
Well, we will wait to see. :)

By Transits, Saturn is just entering the 9th house cusp. Saturn is ruler of natal 12th and 1st.
I would assume that this person would have many obstacles there, but Saturn is in dignity in Libra, so I think he will win them all.
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Without distracting from your focus Omnisphericus, I shall just briefly mention that approximately two thousand years ago, Vettius Valens gives directions for the Calculation of a Solar Return ... except I think he called it the "Solar Revolution"...


QUOTE FROM the website of member Zoidsoft at Astrology X-Files http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/solar-return.html

"The Hellenistic astrologers did not calculate solar returns in the same way that we do. This was because they had a problem when it came to finding the ascendant for the nativity for the year because it was not possible in their time to observe the exact position of the Sun. What they did was to keep all of the planets in the position of the birthdate while looking for the time that the Moon returned to its natal degree in the month that the Sun was in the sign of the return. When the Moon returned under these conditions, the sign rising at that time was considered to be the ascendant for the solar return.

As Valens says, "After reckoning accurately the stars at the birthday of the current year, we will find the horoskopos as follows... With the Sun still in the natal zoidion, we examine where the Moon is at that time and at what hour it arrives by recurrence at the degree which it had at the nativity." . What the Hellenistic astrologers were thinking was that the rate of the Moon's transit and the rate of the sign's rising both correspond to roughly 2 hours in time, and that the position of the Moon would at least give the rising sign . (All 12 signs are covered in a 24 hour period by the earth's rotation and the Moon takes 2 hours to go one degree or 12 degrees + per day. In other words, in the time it takes for the Moon to go through one degree, one sign has completely risen.) The return of the Moon is measured so that as soon as the Moon enters the first minute of the natal degree (in other words enters its own moira), the sign rising is the solar return ascendant. An example of this is if your natal Moon was at 21 Virgo 23, the Greeks would have returned the Moon to 21 Virgo 00. After you have determined the degree of the ascendant from the Moon's return, you place the planets in the position they were in at the birthdate (including the Moon)"

Anyhow, just an interesting historical note! :smile:


Great :)
Thank you for the information. We can also try delineating predictions with the Hellenistic Methods too!
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Federer's first Wimbledon Win

The date is 6 July 2003.

Here's the natal chart:
2cpxiyw.png


Saturn rules the 5th - most important house for sportsmen.
Saturn is in the 2nd. Though Venus is Professional Significator, Saturn plays great role too.


On the day of the game, Directed Ascendant was in 2 Libra - Terms of Saturn.
Saturn is the Divisor of the Period.

Transits:
f09c2v.png


We can see Saturn in 10th just to leave it and enter 11th (the audience).
Jupiter in 3 orbs conjuncting the Sun in domicile dignity.

Directions:
Fortune Square Saturn.
(It seems that the type of the aspect did not played deffinite role. Saturn is accentuated in many ways.

Solar Arc's:
Venus conjunct Jupiter in 2nd (Great Money by winning the tournament).
Venus rules Libra in which Jupiter in 2nd is.
Venus is ruling 9th (another country).
Jupiter is ruling 4th and having honor in 11th (audience).

Firdaria:
Mercury/Saturn

Again Saturn accentuated!
Don't forget that he rules 5th!
Saturn is exalted and succedent.
Mercury rules 1st and 10th.
Mercury is Peregrine/Combusted/in 12th, how can this be?!

Note also that all the planets are Direct!
Mercury is a morning star.
 
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Omnisphericus

Well-known member
As you can see I combine the methods.
It is useful to have details for casting Solar Return chart, but in many cases this is not possible. I do not know where Federer was at the time of his birthday in 2003 so I'm not able to cast a Solar Return Chart.
Some astrologers say that one can use SR chart for the birth place, but many of the astrologers I admire advice to use SR chart for the place where one is stationed on the time of the return.
Some modern astrologers, as Ciro Discepolo, are using so called "Aimed Solar Return charts", that is, advising someone to change the residence place in order to avoid certain planets local determination (i.e. Houses).

In the last two posts I showed how useful is to look at the Lord of the Directed Ascendant's term, the so called Divisor.
We can see that this planet plays great role in arrangement of the events in those years in which it rules.
We saw that sometimes this planet falls to be ruler or sub-ruler of the Firdaria for certain important events.
The house rulership and local determination of this particular planets in many cases trigger events of that sort: travel for the first example, competition for the second. No matter that the planet in the first example was Venus and in the 2nd Saturn - two completely different planets. Sometimes even malefic planets can be accidental benefics and vice versa.

Playing around with different techniques, can give you valuable insights in to the predictive art of astrology. With time you will develop your own method which will work perfectly for you and your clients if you have one.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Re: Federer's first Wimbledon Win

The date is 6 July 2003.
Firdaria:

Mercury/Saturn

Mercury rules 1st and 10th.

Mercury is Peregrine/Combusted/in 12th, how can this be?!

Note also that all the planets are Direct!
Mercury is a morning star
.
Very interesting - thanks Omnisphericus.... :smile:

Just picture an exactly similar chart with all the planets in the same places as shown EXCEPT (just for our theoretical example) that Mercury is further distant from Sun and also Retrograde - for example, shall we say 15
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]º distant from Sun - we would say Mercury is 'under the beams' would we not? (Not combust - just 'under the beams')... as a matter of interest what is your opinion - would you say that since Mercury is a morning star then that outweighs its Retrograde condition? i.e. that being Morning Star boosts Mercury's condition irrespective of whether Mercury is Retrograde and/or Combust and/or 'under the beams'? As you mix techniques, you would know that Hellenistic astrologers would have said that a Retrograde Mercury - whether Stationary Retrograde or Stationary Direct - is strong because it is 'making a Phasis'.

Federer has had his Saturn return - and it is interesting that he is still winning grand slams despite being considered 'old at thirty for a tennis player' :smile:
[/FONT]
 
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Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Re: Federer's first Wimbledon Win

Very interesting - thanks Omnisphericus.... :smile:

Just picture an exactly similar chart with all the planets in the same places as shown EXCEPT (just for our theoretical example) that Mercury is further distant from Sun and also Retrograde - for example, shall we say 15
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]º distant from Sun - we would say Mercury is 'under the beams' would we not? (Not combust - just 'under the beams')... as a matter of interest what is your opinion - would you say that since Mercury is a morning star then that outweighs its Retrograde condition? i.e. that being Morning Star boosts Mercury's condition irrespective of whether Mercury is Retrograde and/or Combust and/or 'under the beams'? As you mix techniques, you would know that Hellenistic astrologers would have said that a Retrograde Mercury - whether Stationary Retrograde or Stationary Direct - is strong because it is 'making a Phasis'.

Federer has had his Saturn return - and it is interesting that he is still winning grand slams despite being considered 'old at thirty for a tennis player' :smile:
[/FONT]

I'm a Federer's admirer. In my opinion he is the very best of all the tennis players who ever hold that racket :)

Yes I agree, Hellenistic Astrologers would have count Mercury in phasis as a strong planet.
What was the definition for being 'in phasis'? If the planet was going out and in of the Sun's beams 7 days after the birth?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Re: Federer's first Wimbledon Win

I'm a Federer's admirer. In my opinion he is the very best of all the tennis players who ever hold that racket :)

Yes I agree, Hellenistic Astrologers would have count Mercury in phasis as a strong planet.
What was the definition for being 'in phasis'? If the planet was going out and in of the Sun's beams 7 days after the birth?
7 days before OR after the birth... if I'm correct the rule is "within seven days of the birth" so that would include before and after. I shall check the exact definition.

Like you, I admire Federer and it is difficult when he plays Nadal because Nadal is extraordinary
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Federer is challenged by the amazing talent of Nadal and Djokovic... As you say, Saturn is the ruler of the 5th so perhaps Federer's Jupiter Saturn conjunction is one explanation

btw I notice Nadal the "King of Clay" just won yet another (8th consecutive) Monte Carlo Masters Title! :smile:
[/FONT]
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Re: Federer's first Wimbledon Win

Yes I agree, Hellenistic Astrologers would have count Mercury in phasis as a strong planet.
What was the definition for being 'in phasis'? If the planet was going out and in of the Sun's beams 7 days after the birth?
Phasis describes a planet making a heliacal rising - i.e. rising before the sun and standardized to 15 degrees by Hellenistic astrology - within 7 days before or after native’s birth.

Rumen Kolev http://www.babylonianastrology.com/ is one of the few living practitioners of Ancient Babylonian Astrology and he says that - based on his own observations of the skies - the 15º standardization is obviously a variable dependent upon local conditions :smile:
 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Firmicus's Planetary Days

Firmicus describes interesting technique which can add to the predictive delineation of the year in question.
Namely, he writes in his book (Matheseos) that every planet rules certain days in the year.

Saturn — 85 = 60+15+10
Jupiter — 34 = 24+6+4
Mars — 42 1/2 = 30+7 1/2+5
Sun — 53 5/6 = 38+9 1/2+6 1/3
Venus — 22 2/3 = 16+4+2 2/3
Mercury — 56 2/3 = 40+10+6 2/3
Moon — 70 5/6 = 50+12 1/2+8 1/3

You start with the planet which rules the Ascendant by Profection, and then you go in order of the planets in the natal chart in the anti-clockwise direction, i.e. in the direction of the Zodiacal signs.

This technique can be very useful and can add to the astrologer's tools for predictions.
 
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Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Valen's Minor Years of the Planets

Saturn — 30
Jupiter — 12
Mars — 15
Sun — 19
Venus — 8
Mercury — 20
Moon — 25

These years are also helpful in predicting when a certain natal configuration will activate in life.
For example, Whitney Houston has Sun-Saturn opposition in natal chart.
Saturn 30 + Sun 19 = 49
She died at that age (approximately). Sun Saturn opposition is in 6-12 natal axis.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Re: An example

What I've noticed is that the Ascendant of the natal chart falls into the annual 9th.
Having this in mind I went to look for other testimonies.
But I will first ask Dr.Farr is he reads this discussion to help me noticing the timings in the Solar Returns with some of the timing methods in SR he mentioned them in another thread
.
The person went to the foreign country in the 7th month after the birthday.
dr. farr seems to have not read this discussion, nevertheless I discovered the following comment Omnisphericus that may be of some interest :smile:
"progressing" the SR chart, one day = one degree, is a very useful method, and is often quite effective. I too have used this method with good results. I believe this method was originally advocated back in the 1940-60's by members of the London School of Astrology, but I am not certain of this assertion.

Note: to make the progressions exact for a 365 day year, progress at the rate of 59minutes10seconds (59'10") per day, instead of 1 degree per day.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Re: An example

One can use the day progression in the SR as I have mentioned it in the reference by JA, above; however, one can also use profection of the place of the SR ascendant, as done by the ancients with their profection charts (Valens, Paulus Alexandrianus, etc) only applied here to a SR chart: thus the ascendant can be profected 1 sign per month, or 1 sign per week (or 1 sign per day), in the context of the SR chart.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Great :)
Thank you for the information. We can also try delineating predictions with the Hellenistic Methods too!
Omnisphericus, thanks for explaining these techniques so clearly and so simply :smile:

Are there any interesting examples that you have in mind that would illustrate how to make predictions using Hellenistic methods too?

Hellenistic astrologers methods were subtle with many layers to prediction. For example they delineated Lord of the Day and Lord of the Month as well as Lord of the Year ALWAYS TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION AT THE SAME TIME the Solar Return and Profections. I find that this detailed method seems to explain why sometimes an apparently important transiting planet TAKEN IN ISOLATION has no observable effects!

 

Omnisphericus

Well-known member
Are there any interesting examples that you have in mind that would illustrate how to make predictions using Hellenistic methods too?

I have examples but don't have time to post them :) I hope I will find more time in near future to participate more on this forum.
 
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