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  #1  
Unread 09-14-2010, 02:58 AM
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Unhappy Saturn Hell

Hello out there....
I am new here. I believe that I am going through my SR, and it has lead me to want to learn more about Astrology (I know the basics but nothing advanced) if for no other reason than to help me figure out when the HECK this is going to be over!!!

I've been through 10+ months of major illness that no one can diagnose (arthritis all over my body that comes and goes, digestive failure, sleeping all the time), quit my 10+ year career in publishing because I just couldn't stand it one more minute and am now unemployed, and basically have NO idea what I'm going to be doing next. I'd like to write, but I have such a hard time focusing on it or getting motivated because I feel so ill, anxious and confused a lot of the time. I have pretty bad anxiety and do not want to leave the house that much because crowds of people or a lot of loud noises really disturb me.

Oh yeah, and I'm getting married at the end of November!! The wedding has been planned for some time now, before all this other stuff started. I'm happy about the wedding- or as happy as I can be considering that I don't seem to know up from down these days!

Anyone who can shed some light on my chart and this saturn thing- you will have my most humble and sincere appreciation for eternity!!!

-Violet
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Unread 09-14-2010, 04:29 AM
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Re: Saturn Hell

Hey Violet! Take heart! You are not alone, though I have to say, having a Saturn return aspect your 8th house so strongly could and would make life something very much like 'hell' as you termed it.

You have 5 planets in your 8th house which is the house of death, rebirth, transfomation. Among these are the sun (in Scorpio which denotes major transformation all on it's own), Pluto (transformation), Jupiter (expansion and wisdom, consider this a lucky stroke to help you emerge victorious and with a greater understanding when all is said and done), Mercury and Saturn.

Such a heavy emphasis in the 8th house point towards a major need to literally 'let go and let god.' (or whatever you identify with) Even without a Saturn return, you are probably prone to shake things up unconsciously just because things have become too stagnant and your 8th house emphasis and Scorpio sun demand it.

The hard part then is to ascertain what is change for the sake of change and what is change because change is necessary.

My opinion is that you are being called to find a balance (Libra)....this may be the essence of your return, to highlight that you don't need to constantly be changing things. Saturn is really bringing home the point that some things are MEANT to be solid and in fact need to be.

I'm not a doctor, but an undiagnosed illness that includes arthritis (a stressed or afflicted saturn issue), digestive issues and sleeping all of the time are pretty standard indicators of stress. Which a Saturn return can bring, and with the return taking about 4 years to fully work itself out, it makes sense that this has been going on for a while.

I'd say the return challenge is to find stillness. Don't try to plunge into anything new just yet, instead find an inner steadiness. Meditate. A lot. Mercury in the 8th house indicates a need to reorder your mind. Change your thought patterns. Let old ones of illness, stress, lack and chaos die and birth thoughts of health, strength, fortitude and peace. We are what we think. The Universe manifest what is in our minds. Monitor your thoughts and turn them over to God.

When you find yourself dwelling on what's going wrong, immediately stop and begin to think about and be thankful for all that is going right.

I'm smack dab in the middle of my return as well, and have just lost my second job this year (ME, A CAPRICORN!?!?! WTF!?!? LOL!), have lost thousands of dollars, yadda, yadda ya. I'm just sayin, you aren't alone and you CAN get through this. Focus only on what you want, meditate and the answers will come as well as blessings in spades!

Best of luck!
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Unread 09-14-2010, 04:42 AM
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Re: Saturn Hell

You are not in SR yet, SR will be more to the end of the year.

I think you must be feeling this way because your moon is being hit by transiting Pluto and squared by transiting Uranus, and it was hit by a square to transiting Saturn that made the period really bad for you.

Now you will have a respite because Saturn will move on from the square to your moon.
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Unread 09-14-2010, 05:29 AM
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Re: Saturn Hell

Violet, I'm with RockFish in relation to what ails you at present.

Your Saturn R is not yet underway, but when it is...............

In looking at your 6th house of body and health, I see that it is ruled by the Moon, and your natal Moon is early in Capricorn, and so Pluto's conjunction to your Moon has been stirring up your body. I would suggest that since the Moon rules your 6th house, you have a very sensitive body. How long have you been in the southern hemisphere? Some people take some time to re-adjust to living in the other hemisphere. [I know a guy - much older than you - who came to Australia from Europe. He has Moon in the 6th house, and so his body has taken more than 10 years to adjust to living in another hemisphere. My theory is he's taken this long because he's in denial about it all.]

Pluto in transit has also been hanging around (astrological term!!) your 11th house cusp - which is ruled by Saturn - and so you are experiencing Saturn as being the `culprit', resulting in restriction and physical debilities. I also notice that Saturn rules your 12th house, so I suspect that what ails you health-wise is coming from deep in your unconscious.

Now, I am no medical astrologer, but there are some very good medical astrologers on this forum. My suggestion is that you re-post your chart and your questions and put it in the medical section. You will get deeper answers there.
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Last edited by R4VEN; 09-14-2010 at 05:53 AM.
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Unread 09-14-2010, 06:00 AM
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Re: Saturn Hell

Added to what I said above, I have created your chart with transits and progressions for the time when your condition began - mid Nov 2009.

The most noticeable thing I see in relation to that time is Jupiter-Chiron-Neptune all conjunct in Aquarius transiting your 12th house. In the meantime, this conjunction has crossed your Ascendant, the combined effects which may have been an expansion (Jupiter) of the debilitating effects of Chiron-Neptune crossing your Ascendant.
[I have natal Moon in 6th house, and when Neptune crossed my Cap Asc, I had such severe chronic fatigue and fogginess of the brain that I had to resign from my job as a TAFE lecturer. Prior to resigning, I'd be on my way to work trying to remember what I was supposed to be teaching that day, and if I was in fact heading to the right campus.]

I have found that the very sensitive can really struggle when tr Neptune crosses their Asc, or forms a conjunction with natal Sun.
Tr Neptune was exactly conjunct your Asc from April-July 2010, and will be back over your Asc April-early May 2010.

I'm sure one of the medical astrologers will be able to fill in this scant overview with some detail.
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Last edited by R4VEN; 09-14-2010 at 06:06 AM.
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Unread 09-14-2010, 08:36 AM
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Re: Saturn Hell

Oh thank you, thank you to you all who have replied! I'm not sure what to make of the fact that my SR hasn't even started yet?!? Jiminy Crickets! But what Munich said about the themes of what my SR will be were really relevant to my life.

I've been going through massive, massive upheaval as a result of the illness I've experienced (which, Raven, has totally been a lot like chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia) and that is completely "bingo" about the brain fog. In that period of April-July I would get in my car to drive to work and be like "where am I going?" and nearly wrecked the car on several occasions because I was in la-la land, couldn't remember anything and would forget where I was. This was SO unlike me that it scared me. I thought I was really losing it! I still have my moments of feeling like I'm not on the planet at all.

I've been in the Southern Hemisphere for 4 years. Arrived july 13, 2006. I had major skin problems when I first got here, and they still flare up from time to time. I've read that is a Capricorn thing and with my moon in Cap in the 6th house as you say.... And you are right that I am highly sensitive. Through my illness, i've had to learn to treat myself 100% through diet and herbs because medications actually made me worse. My body can no longer tolerate sugar, gluten, grains or a lot of meat since the illness.

I seem to be coming out of the illness now (slowly. I used to swim 20 laps before breakfast. haven't been in the pool in 10 months...) but there is still a lot of mental confusion about "now what?" and sometimes I get so confused I can't think straight and literally make myself sick from lack of sleep or eating.

That line about "give it to God" is SO meaningful to me, because i feel like the underlying mental struggle has been about submission. Trusting that I can give it up to God (or, you know, "what/whomever". The jury is still out on that one) and that i am actually WORTHY of receiving wellness and abundance in my life.

I just ordered a copy of Robert Hand's book "Horoscope Symbols" and I hope to keep learning. I find it so helpful to have some kind of beacon in the storm!

-Violet
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Unread 09-14-2010, 09:13 AM
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Re: Saturn Hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Violet_Flyer View Post
I thought I was really losing it! I still have my moments of feeling like I'm not on the planet at all.
I believe that the function of this quite stressful transit is so that you can - almost literally - leave your old life behind - perhaps by leaving the planet, which is what a hard transit of Neptune can do - so that you come back renewed.

What you have done health-wise sounds very positive. Your reactions to certain foods are in some ways metaphors for the way your soul felt about living your life in the way you had previously. (I now know this to be true, but if someone had told me that before my own falling-apart I would have ignored them!!!!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violet_Flyer View Post
I've been in the Southern Hemisphere for 4 years. Arrived july 13, 2006.
On that day you had progressed Sun and Moon conjunct - or they were a week or so after that date - early in Sag in the 9th house.............that's pretty appropriate for relocating to another part of the world! In essence, at that time you had a progressed New Moon in Sag in the 9th house. Sagittarius and the 9th house are about foreign places and travel.

Transiting Chiron and Neptune were already in your 12th house, but not anywhere near a conjunction. That began to occur around 18 months ago, and also around this time you had a square between tr Chiron and natal Chiron. This presents you with a major healing opportunity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violet_Flyer View Post
That line about "give it to God" is SO meaningful to me, because i feel like the underlying mental struggle has been about submission. Trusting that I can give it up to God (or, you know, "what/whomever". The jury is still out on that one) and that i am actually WORTHY of receiving wellness and abundance in my life.
I'd say that your journey in and out of The Fog, as unpleasant as it sometimes still is, has been one which is necessary.

And when the outer planets `speak', you pretty much have to submit.

Your natal Chiron in Taurus tells me that you have some lessons in the area of your values - i.e. the underlying values which drive you to do what you do. I believe that your illness (your getting-to-be-well-ness???) is about stopping you in your tracks in part for you to do an inventory of what is really important to you.
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Unread 09-14-2010, 11:27 AM
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Re: Saturn Hell

Thanks Raven. 18 months ago was when I did have a big "wake up" and started to actively seek healing in other areas of my life (this was before I had this physical illness). I did my first sweat lodge 18 months ago, started to do Trance Dance workshops and try to get serious about my personal healing. That was part of why the physical illness was so disturbing... it was like, "hey, wait a minute, I'm doing all this stuff to heal!" But it's true that all the diet and herbs/nutrition thing came in as a result of the illness.

It's been totally weird to put myself first- even to the point of leaving my career and letting my partner pay the bills for a while (I do a little bit of consulting on the side) and putting my social life on hold. Normally, I take care of everyone, and now I am the one getting the care!

Values...hmm, well I am getting married, and I have recently decided that I want to try to have a baby late next year when I am have more of my health back. That is a big change. I have always though a lot about life/death and everything in between, and I find myself gravitating towards all of those concepts very strongly- perhaps more strongly than ever now to decide what it is that I want my life to stand for and be about.

I hope that you are not in a part of Australia right now experiencing flooding. I am in Adelaide and I just can't WAIT for summer- even if it does make my skin crack and peel off! ;-)
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Unread 09-14-2010, 12:17 PM
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Re: Saturn Hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Violet_Flyer View Post
Values...hmm, well I am getting married, and I have recently decided that I want to try to have a baby late next year when I am have more of my health back. That is a big change. I have always though a lot about life/death and everything in between, and I find myself gravitating towards all of those concepts very strongly- perhaps more strongly than ever now to decide what it is that I want my life to stand for and be about.
That sounds like a rather big step in a different direction.
Your mass of 8th house planets will lead you towards questions (and answers) about life & death & all that. On top of that, Scorpio sun is about transformation on all levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violet_Flyer View Post
I hope that you are not in a part of Australia right now experiencing flooding. I am in Adelaide and I just can't WAIT for summer- even if it does make my skin crack and peel off! ;-)
Well...........
I'm in the same place as you, but dreading summer. Adelaide summers can be relentless.
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Unread 09-14-2010, 01:21 PM
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Re: Saturn Hell

Yes, it IS a big step in a new direction! And one that surprised me greatly. But I really feel destined to become a mother at some point in the next 3 years. Or...at least to try My whole focus on life has started to shift into ideas about creating family (err...while somehow still globe trotting, because I don't think I'll ever give that up!). But of course, first I have to get totally better and become a master at caring for myself before I make the ultimate sacrifice of caring for a new life.

The first summer here I think I nearly died.... but I'm used to it now and after this winter I'm so ready for some sunshine and t-shirt weather!
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Unread 09-14-2010, 01:59 PM
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Re: Saturn Hell

Quote:
I have found that the very sensitive can really struggle when tr Neptune crosses their Asc, or forms a conjunction with natal Sun.
Tr Neptune was exactly conjunct your Asc from April-July 2010, and will be back over your Asc April-early May 2010.
Indeed T Neptune conj Asc is a major transit, I had this in early Aquarius and Noel Tyl describes this as *wipeout* needing more sleep, changing your appearance and secrets coming out of the 12th so you would never see them coming were all horrendous --

Saturn has changed to Libra and I do feel you will be feeling the effects of SR...
Saturn Return
Saturn takes 30 years or so to complete its circuit around the zodiac so events that occur around the age of 29-30, 58-59 and 84-87 will be of great significance to the native, depending on the strength and aspects to natal saturn.
http://www.newage-directory.com/saturn.html
http://www.astrologycom.com/saturn.html
http://www.saturnreturn.net/what_is.html
http://www.examiner.com/x-2766-Atlan...-Saturn-return

http://www.lynnkoiner.com/astrology-articles/dysfunctional-saturn

Further Reading:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/saturn.html
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/saturn_att.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_return
http://www.newage-directory.com/saturn.html
http://astrology.about.com/od/advanc...turnReturn.htm
http://www.aquariuspapers.com/astrol...turn_retu.html
http://rudhyar.com/beautyofaging.shtml
http://www.insiderreports.com/storyp...oryID=20011993
http://ancientsky.com/index.php?opti...d=25&Itemid=49
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...m=10&ct=result
http://www.lifescript.com/Soul/Horos...aking_Out.aspx
http://www.ancientsky.com/parker/parker_2ndSaturn.htm
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=11903
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ead.php?t=5884
http://www.bemyastrologer.com/saturn..._in_virgo.html


T Pluto conj moon is a also a biggie to adapt to...and this will have a major effect on your domestic life

Quote:
Pluto transits to the Moon directly affect the feelings, the public image, and personal popularity. Other people and things affected by Pluto are the mother, important women in the native's life, domestic life, and the home. Our early experiences often cause us to build a life "script" that incorporate our expectations from the world, and this process is ruled by the Moon. Pluto challenges this "script". In some cases, men live this transit through key female figures in their lives. Sometimes, the relationship with the mother or other important female figures come into focus.
What does the Moon rule in your chart? Look to the house(s) of your natal chart with Cancer on the cusp for areas of your life where Pluto is stimulating. Look to planets in Cancer in your chart to see other parts of your personality that Pluto is now infusing with intensity.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/plutotransits.html
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Unread 09-14-2010, 02:22 PM
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Re: Saturn Hell

Wow, well "total wipeout" sure sums it up... It's been a powerful teacher and I guess that is what it took to get me to slow down and listen!

Intrigued by the hidden secrets coming out, as I had a SHOCKER about 6-8 weeks ago that was nearly life shattering. Don't know that I would post it out in the open here as it was pretty horrific and there was nothing to do but observe and detach from it. Really interesting though, as it involved my father, and with SR looming (bringing with it issues of the metaphorical father) I find myself looking at that relationship with a microscope, and really looking at what his values are and what I want mine to be.

I just want a gentle experience for a while... I am super-actively taking my entire life under the lens right now, looking at it, looking at me, my relationships. Scrutinizing my relationship with a fine-toothed comb before the wedding (feeling good about it though).

With this whole Pluto thing and the illness, the interesting thing is that I am practically a blank slate at this point. No job, no career, no idea what I'm going to do... Just working on a novel, trying very hard to find the dedication within to complete it in the next year and continue on my path of physical healing and hopefully working towards a family in the next couple of years.
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Unread 09-14-2010, 05:34 PM
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Re: Saturn Hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Violet_Flyer View Post
That was part of why the physical illness was so disturbing... it was like, "hey, wait a minute, I'm doing all this stuff to heal!"
Crazy as it might seem, once we peel back the proverbial lid, we may not be able to control what comes out of the can. I'd guess that the illness has been there and the stress of healing yourself (which is stressful because it IS change) is causing physical manifestations. Try to be thankful for it. Odd as that sounds, if you tell yourself that everything you are feeling is because it's finally coming out and getting OUT, and soon you will be whole in mind, body and soul. )
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Unread 09-15-2010, 12:14 PM
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Re: Saturn Hell

T Pluto conj moon is a also a biggie to adapt to...and this will have a major effect on your domestic life[/QUOTE]

Yeah...when does that start? We had some major news today and it is looking like we will now be moving overseas next year for 6 months. My step-daughters (with the encouragement of their mother) have decided that they don't want anything to do with me, that I must be the reason for everything that is wrong in their lives and to not spend any time with us anymore. This has been a terrible pain for me for years now, because I have sacrificed everything (left my home, country and family) so that they could have the chance at a relationship with their father, emotionally and financially supported their father in court so that he could fight for joint-custody and have asked for nothing from them in return but an open mind that I'm not the wicked witch of the west.

After 4.5 years of this, I've had enough. My partner as well, and with both of our work taking us overseas more and more often, we are both feeling the need for a domestic change...

God, these blows just keep coming! But I am hopeful that at the end of it, I'll be in a much better place than I was...
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Unread 09-17-2010, 03:09 PM
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Re: Saturn Hell

http://www.astro.com/swisseph/ae/2000/ae_2009.pdf
http://www.khaldea.com/ephemcenter.shtml
try using an online ephemeris to plot the dates using 1' approaching, 1' exact and1' departing influences.....

astro.com has a free 'personal portrait' interpretation of a natal chart in the free horoscope section, plus a six month free transit report in 'short report'
Robert Hand gives a valuable in depth explanation of transits here –
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