Sun opposition Pluto

Does anyone have personal experience with this aspect, whether in your own natal chart or in someone you know? I would love to hear your take on it and what the experience is like, either as the natal person or the "other."

Because it's an opposition, I'm thinking the dynamic will most likely play out in one's life via relationships. That's the interesting part that has me wanting to understand it more. Four example, sun conjunct Pluto and Scorpio energies are pretty obvious and well understood. But when sun/Pluto energies are polarized from one another within one's own psyche, such as in an opposition, the tension will constantly be present along with the need to reconcile the energies.

What do you think? Or what have you observed with this aspect?

I've read before that sun opposition Pluto natives are prone to having been abused or abusive relationships. I don't know if that's true. I know two different men with this aspect and neither have hinted at any abuse. But I did notice that both seem to be misunderstood and feared by others. Neither are mean (I'm not intimidated by them), but their intensity seems to create an oppositional stance against them, no matter how genuinely innocent their intent may have been.

Either way, we're talking SUN opposition PLUTO. It's a far cry from say, Venus opposition Neptune. Or mars opposition Jupiter. Pluto in opposition to one's sun has got to be intense.

Thoughts?

Thank you.

The Ancient-Egyptians feared for the Sun's safety as it passed through the realm of the Underworld. This is the very subjective view, echoed by the Greeks, whereby the Sun rose at the Ascendant-point after traversing the darkness below the Horizons. We have the Sun (Ra/Helios/Sol), Osirus/Pluto, and Horus/Apollo (Solar-god of the Ascendant) as archetypes. Horus protected Ra from the forces of Darkness ruled by Osirus, ensured his safe passage, and was worshipped at Sunrise. This paradigm suggests that the position of the Ascendant has a large role in how the Sun/Pluto opposition plays out in the Chart. Not sure how, though.

Thanks, David. I will try to process the medieval images passing through my head and let you know if it produces anything.

sadge said:

Thanks, David. I will try to process the medieval images passing through my head and let you know if it produces anything.

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Pluto is slow enough that there are a LOT of people with Pluto/Sun opposition in terms of Signs. Then too, there's a current reversal available as far as the Signs go: Starting with Pluto in Cancer/Sun in Capricorn (which is the most extreme Sign opposition [IMO]) in 1914, we have Pluto in Capricorn/Sun in Cancer starting in 2008. Of course there are historical figures also, but the Ascendants might be more unreliable. Thanks for bringing it up--I'll be paying more attention to it from now on.

john Travolta:Sun 29 aq--pluto in Virgo---sun sq mars in Sag

Peyton manning:Sun in Aries/Pluto - sun square mars in cancer

Kelsey Grammer: Sun 2 pisces/pluto 25 leo -

Amber Heard:Sun in Taurus/pluto scorpio sun trine neptune/cap

Don Lemon:Sun in pisces/Pluto in Virgo Pisces stellium

Queen Latifah:Sun in Pisces /pluto in Virgo Sun conjunct Chiron

Chris Brown:Sun in Taurus/Pluto in Scorpio Taurus/Gemini stellium

Cam Newton:Sun in Taurus/Pluto in Scorpio sun trine sat/nep

Marshawn Lynch:sun in taurus/ pluto in libra/sat in scorpio sun/sat opp=tightest asp

Johnny Knoxville:sun in pisces/pluto in virgo Mars/sag square pluto exact


So here are some of the famous peeps with Sun/Pluto oppositions. I see a bit of a theme....power struggles in relationships/ people trying to hide who they really are? ....a bit of reckless behavior?

Travolta/Lemon/Latifah have all had public rumors about their sexuality. Lemon and Latifah both came out---travolta still hiding...

marshawn lynch is interesting in that he was best player of one of the best nfl teams...and he would refuse to answer any questions by the press..didnt want to talk--would stay silent---and his sun /pluto opposition includes a sun/saturn opposition.

Grammer/Heard/Brown, all had very public relationship problems. It all played out in the press. divorces, contentious legal battles over money etc

Chris Brown included domestic violence in his...very ugly incident...

several of the people in the above list have been said to be arrogant, prideful, condescending or a tad obnoxious...

Do you think the actual Signs they're in matter? What about the Houses, also--that would bring the Ascendant into play, especially in Whole-sign.

david starling said:

Pluto is slow enough that there are a LOT of people with Pluto/Sun opposition in terms of Signs. Then too, there's a current reversal available as far as the Signs go: Starting with Pluto in Cancer/Sun in Capricorn (which is the most extreme Sign opposition [IMO]) in 1914, we have Pluto in Capricorn/Sun in Cancer starting in 2008. Of course there are historical figures also, but the Ascendants might be more unreliable. Thanks for bringing it up--I'll be paying more attention to it from now on.

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I don't think that outer planet aspects are less important because they are "generational" planets. Based on experience and observation, natal aspects to outer planets are very, very important, especially heavy hitters like Pluto. I'm immersed in such conjunctions and it takes over the whole life experience.

The opposition between Pluto and sun is a pretty heavy aspect that plays out with other people.

Something that helps me to conceptualize oppositions is to consider the conjunction -- what happens when the planets fuse energies -- before I try to separate the energies.

Do you have any oppositions (between any inner and outer planets) that demonstrate the opposition through relationships? Or know of any examples?

But yes, houses and signs must matter when it comes to specifics.

katydid said:

john Travolta:Sun 29 aq--pluto in Virgo---sun sq mars in Sag

Peyton manning:Sun in Aries/Pluto - sun square mars in cancer

Kelsey Grammer: Sun 2 pisces/pluto 25 leo -

Amber Heard:Sun in Taurus/pluto scorpio sun trine neptune/cap

Don Lemon:Sun in pisces/Pluto in Virgo Pisces stellium

Queen Latifah:Sun in Pisces /pluto in Virgo Sun conjunct Chiron

Chris Brown:Sun in Taurus/Pluto in Scorpio Taurus/Gemini stellium

Cam Newton:Sun in Taurus/Pluto in Scorpio sun trine sat/nep

Marshawn Lynch:sun in taurus/ pluto in libra/sat in scorpio sun/sat opp=tightest asp

Johnny Knoxville:sun in pisces/pluto in virgo Mars/sag square pluto exact


So here are some of the famous peeps with Sun/Pluto oppositions. I see a bit of a theme....power struggles in relationships/ people trying to hide who they really are? ....a bit of reckless behavior?

Travolta/Lemon/Latifah have all had public rumors about their sexuality. Lemon and Latifah both came out---travolta still hiding...

marshawn lynch is interesting in that he was best player of one of the best nfl teams...and he would refuse to answer any questions by the press..didnt want to talk--would stay silent---and his sun /pluto opposition includes a sun/saturn opposition.

Grammer/Heard/Brown, all had very public relationship problems. It all played out in the press. divorces, contentious legal battles over money etc

Chris Brown included domestic violence in his...very ugly incident...

several of the people in the above list have been said to be arrogant, prideful, condescending or a tad obnoxious...

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I can definitely see the Taurus/Scorpio opposition in Chris brown and amber heard's lives. I wonder what their fathers were like.....(aspect to sun).....

David.....

What does the big "VIP" label mean? Simply that you're VIP??? (I'm still figuring all of this out.)

S.

sadge said:

David.....

What does the big "VIP" label mean? Simply that you're VIP??? (I'm still figuring all of this out.)

S.

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I think it means Very Impatient Person. Not sure how they knew right away--psychic ability?

david starling said:

I think it means Very Impatient Person. Not sure how they knew right away--psychic ability?

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Oooooh.

Very. Important. Person.

And they knew right away. Hmmm.....So how much did it cost? Lol.

Did you know my VIP passes don't cost a thing? one must only be cool, kind, and know your craft. here's a pass for you....nobody can see it, but you know that I know that you've got it. Take it while it's still free!

sadge said:

Oooooh.

Very. Important. Person.

And they knew right away. Hmmm.....So how much did it cost? Lol.

Did you know my VIP passes don't cost a thing? one must only be cool, kind, and know your craft. here's a pass for you....nobody can see it, but you know that I know that you've got it. Take it while it's still free!

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Not "Important", "Impatient". I've got a tight Neptune/Pluto Yod pointing right at my Mercury/Mars Conjuntion. With Moon and Venus Conjunct in Aquarius, that combines to account for my need to enter the Aquarian Age ASAP. Also, my certainty that the Aquarian Age HASN'T started, as in "You ain't seen nothing yet". I don't have any other Aspects with Pluto, but I do have a friendlier feeling about Pluto than most--possibly because of Jupiter in Scorpio.

david starling said:

Do you think the actual Signs they're in matter? What about the Houses, also--that would bring the Ascendant into play, especially in Whole-sign.

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I think the signs matter when they are aspecting personal planets.

I think there is a big difference between a native with sun/taurus opposed Pluto/scorpio and sun/gemini opposed pluto in sag.

There would still be power struggles, perhaps egotistical tendencies. But it would play out different in fixed/earth-water vs. mutable/air-fire oppositions.

I have a friend with a tight Sun/Pluto opposition. His Sun is in Aquarius in the 12th house, and his Pluto is in Leo in the 6th house. We’ll call him Joe. His Pluto being in Leo, he was born in the early 50s.

With his Sun in Aquarius, Joe’s identity and conscious purpose in life is to be different and innovative in some way. He’s a musician and the music he makes has always been on the avant-garde side of things. And visually, he looks like the spitting image of Uncle Fester of Addams family fame, so he certainly looks different!

I take Joe’s Sun/Pluto opposition to symbolise a need to bring into balance his conscious purpose in life (music), symbolised by the Sun, with his need to transform and evolve (Pluto) in his daily activities, ideally performing service of some kind (6th house).

So how has that worked out in Joe’s life? I’ve known him for many years, so I can make a few observations:

Joe has practiced an intense form of kabbalistic meditation on a daily basis (6th house) for many years now. In this form of meditation, one bores a hole deeply into the unconscious mind, attempting to establish direct contact with elements of it. This strikes me as being a classic Plutonic activity, and meditation in general ties in with a positive response to the energy of a 12th house Sun. Joe achieved the balance required by the opposition through the daily meditative practice.

Then, about ten years ago, Joe’s mother got ill and went to a nursing home. Joe “disappeared” (12th house symbolism) from the music scene and became a nurse’s aid at the nursing home of his mother. Here we see, perhaps, another manifestation of this opposition. Joe, who never in his life performed any particular service for anyone, found himself doing so for a period of about 7 seven years, which would appear to fit in with his 6th house Plutonian symbolism.

After this period in the nursing home, he came back on the music scene and began performing publicly again, but a few years ago he was in a terrible train accident, and he has again disappeared from the scene, recuperating from his injuries and dealing with other health issues. Again we see the 12th/6th house axis at work here with its Sun (body) Pluto (going through hell!) symbolism.

I don’t know how this story ends as I haven’t been in touch with Joe since last year. But when I find out what happens, I’ll let you know!

If anyone else has the charts of people they know personally with this opposition, I’d be fascinated to hear their story!

Best - Rhys

katydid said:

I think the signs matter when they are aspecting personal planets.

I think there is a big difference between a native with sun/taurus opposed Pluto/scorpio and sun/gemini opposed pluto in sag.

There would still be power struggles, perhaps egotistical tendencies. But it would play out different in fixed/earth-water vs. mutable/air-fire oppositions.

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We have one sizable, living reversal in the Pluto in Capricorn generation (oldest now 8 years old) versus the Pluto in Cancer generation (youngest now 78) that experienced WWII.

Having Sun-Pluto conjunct natally, I tend to `collect' those with Sun-Pluto hard aspects.

The person I know best with Sun-Pluto opposition is my grandson's mum, who has Sun (Taurus) conjunct MC in 10th opposition Pluto (Scorpio) in the 4th house (rather widely conj her IC)

With Moon's south node in Libra she's a people-pleaser. Whenever she does anything at all independent (keep in mind that this is my outsider's perspective) her parents, and especially her mother, draw her back into the family fold with promises of money and `we'll look after you'. I see this as abuse, but it's probably more to do with manipulation/control, and misuse of power. This young woman has just turned 30, and she lives with her mother, along with one of her brothers, and her 3 youngest children, all 3 of whom her mother managed to gain custody of through the courts. As I saw the situation, the young woman's mother fought for custody of the children not so much for the welfare of the kids, but as a bargaining tool to keep her daughter close by. The young woman will not stand up to her mother, and I believe she is afraid of her. Given her 4th house Pluto, the young woman's mother was also manipulated by her mother, using money, and threats to cut her out of the older woman's will. And so the family pattern is passed on.

I find the whole situation to be a tragedy. Her oldest child (my grandson) lives with me and his father, who has custody of this child, and her own mother has custody of her younger 3 children.

The mother of this young woman has Pluto trine Sun natally, but when tr Pluto conjoined her late Sagi Sun (late 2007 - through 2008), this is when all the drama began for the daughter, and the mother threw the reins and bridle over her and said, "Do as I say, or else."

(And I hope you can follow this ... it's a bit of a complicated mix of mother, daughter, and her 4 children, and it's a story which saddens me, because the young woman is a naturally brilliant and instinctual mother ... which her own mother isn't and never will be.)

I have sun opposite Pluto natally. Sun in Aquarius, Pluto in Leo.

There have been several threads here and at Astrodienst about sun-Pluto aspects, and with the opposition, it seems common for the person to have had a dysfunctional relationship with the father. Whatever Dad may have been for himself or to other people, the child is apt to see Dad as a ruthless bully, with little concern for the child's own wishes.

I'm retired now, but during my working life, I would periodically have to work with or for men who seemed to embody the negative Plutonian persona: underhanded, bullying, aggressive, utterly unconcerned about others' feelings, &c.

I didn't study astrology till I was 40, and at some point after that, I realized that I am all of the planets in my chart. What I needed to do was to somehow own and incorporate my own inner Pluto. I can't say that I did that well, but subsequently I stopped meeting those Plutonian sorts of people. Just once, briefly, I had a similar encounter, when transiting Pluto semi-squared my sun.

One other thing about an opposition with the sun, is that the sun, symbolizing one's sense of self, is one of the "me" points in the horoscope. A planet opposite the sun tends to get construed as "not me." So it takes effort to recognize that if we disown or suppress a planet as "not me," the chart will express itself in some fashion. Usually we will attract to us people who seemingly embody the negative side of the unwanted planet.

Perhaps a benefit of sun opposite Pluto is that I had to learn to stick up for myself at a young age. With Neptune in Libra in the first house trine Venus, I also tend to come across as a "people pleaser," probably shocking some people when less domesticated sides of my personality come out.

R4VEN, nice to see you back!

I think sun-Pluto contacts tend to run in some families. I have a lot of genealogy records, and I'd have to go through the lot to note all of them, but my mother had sun in Scorpio partile trine Pluto; and my grandson has sun in Scorpio with his sun is also partile sextile Pluto. My maternal grandmother and father had sun conjunct Pluto. A niece has sun conjunct Pluto in Scorpio, my sister has a wide sun-Pluto conjunction.

I also have a wide moon-Pluto conjunction, but parallel in the same degree.

There is a metaphysical theory that families choose to incarnate as a group, to work through similar issues. I suppose if that's correct, there should be an astrological signature around somewhere.

waybread said:

I have sun opposite Pluto natally. Sun in Aquarius, Pluto in Leo.

There have been several threads here and at Astrodienst about sun-Pluto aspects, and with the opposition, it seems common for the person to have had a dysfunctional relationship with the father. <snip>

I'm retired now, but during my working life, I would periodically have to work with or for men who seemed to embody the negative Plutonian persona: underhanded, bullying, aggressive, utterly unconcerned about others' feelings, &c. <snip>

One other thing about an opposition with the sun, is that the sun, symbolizing one's sense of self, is one of the "me" points in the horoscope. A planet opposite the sun tends to get construed as "not me." So it takes effort to recognize that if we disown or suppress a planet as "not me," the chart will express itself in some fashion. Usually we will attract to us people who seemingly embody the negative side of the unwanted planet.

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Thanks so much for these insightful comments. I hadn't considered the father relationship angle, nor the Me/Other possibilities with a Sun/Pluto opposition, but what you say makes perfect sense.

I was curious to know if your Sun or Pluto is in the 4th house?

Best - Rhys

Thank you, Rhys.

I don't post my 100% accurate chart for privacy reasons, but this one is what I call my "close-enough" chart. It preserves the chart structure. In most quadrant house systems, my sun-Pluto are in a 5th/11th house axis, but they move to the 6th/12th house in whole signs due to a late degree rising.