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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) and excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) non-Ptolemaic aspects, as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 06-19-2019, 09:55 AM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 46,969
The GREAT CONJUNCTION - Jupiter Saturn - The GREAT CHRONOCRATORS

To clarify a discussion commenced on another thread:

In ancient times Jupiter and Saturn were
the outermost known planets
and were called by astrologers of old the "Great Chronocrators".
For millennia
the alignment of these two planets
has been regarded
as a significator of great social
economic
and
political watersheds - historic turning points, if you will.
hence
referred to as
"The Great Conjunction"
clearly then
Juiter Saturn conjunctions have been charted for millenia
by MUNDANE ASTROLOGERS

by the way
Mundane astrology is very Hierarchical
thus
Starting with the Grand Conjunction
your Natal Chart would be 7th in the pecking order
and
Horary is below your Natal Chart
and is lowest on the Mundane Hierarchy


i.e.
MUNDANE ASTROLOGY HIERARCHY

Grand Conjunction 1702
21 May 1702
4:01:37 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
074°W00'37"
40°N42'26"

Great Mutation (Earth) 1802
17 Jul 1802
5:52:26 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York

Great Conjunction 2000
28 May 2000
11:07:39 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York

Great Malefic 2004
25 May 2004
1:20 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
....is currently the operating Malefic Chart
and then the following will become operative....
Great Malefic 2034
26 Jun 2034
5:33:42 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


2019 Aries Ingress
20 Mar 2019
Federal Hall, New York


INSERT YOUR NATAL CHART HERE
That is where your place is in the hierarchy of charts.
INSERT HORARY CHART HERE
That is where horary charts are in the hierarchy of charts

Note: Relocate the chart(s) to your country
and
for maximum accuracy, use the "foundation point"
eg: Romania = Alba Iulia, not Bucharesti
Japan = Kyoto, not Tokyo
Spain = Toledo, not Madrid
and so on

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #2  
Unread 06-19-2019, 09:57 AM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 46,969
Re: The GREAT CONJUNCTION - Jupiter Saturn - The GREAT CHRONOCRATORS

Jupiter's alignment with Saturn
occurs at intervals of just under 20 years
The aspect is occasionally repeated due to a retrograde
of one or both planets.
Each successive conjunction
not counting retrograde repeats
occurs at a mean advance of
approximately 243 degrees relative to its predecessor
although from one alignment to the next
this arc can vary considerably.

Every third conjunction
i.e.
once every 60 years
brings the alignment back
to its starting place, plus around 9 degrees:
this 60 year cycle is termed
FIRST ORDER RECURRENCE of the conjunction.

Every 40th conjunction - roughly once every 800 years -
brings the alignment back to within about 1 degree of its starting place:
this approximate 800 year cycle is termed SECOND ORDER RECURRENCE
aka GREAT MUTATION CYCLE



Jupiter and Saturn may both be regarded as generational planets
Jupiter takes 12 years to orbit Sun
and
Saturn takes 30 years to orbit Sun
- additionally, during their respective orbits of the Sun
Jupiter and Saturn are in conjunction only approximately every 20 years.

These specific spans of time

chime well with the accepted idea of “a generation”
being the span of time necessary before human beings are physically able
to produce a child of their own
in human terms, 'a generation' can be a variable
- that's because some produce offspring very early
and in many 'eastern' countries before their teens.

However, in 'the west' there is a tendency to initially focus on 'career'
before then producing offspring later in the 30's.
The middle ground would be those producing offspring in their 20's.
Based on those rather "rough and ready" spans of time then:

(1) A twelve year Jupiter orbit of the sun represents

those who are parents at an age considered in 'the west'
very young - i.e. 12

(2) A thirty year Saturn orbit of the sun represents

those who are parents at what is considered in 'the west'
to be a 'more responsible age' - i.e. 30

(3) A combination of the two planets in regular 20 year Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions

then represent the 'middle-ground' - i.e. 19/20

USUALLY a generation
averages about 25 years from the birth of a parent to the birth of a child
- although it varies case by case
it is generally accepted that the length of a generation
was closer to 20 years in earlier times
when humans mated younger
and life expectancies were shorter

Among present-day members

of a contemporary hunter-gatherer people
of Botswana and Namibia
whose lifestyle is relatively similar
to that of our Western pre-agricultural ancestors
the average age of mothers
at the birth of their first child was 20 years
and at the last birth 31
giving a mean of 25.5 years per female generation
which is considerably above the 20 years
commonly attributed to 'primitive cultures'.
Fathers were six to 13 years older than mothers
giving a male generational interval of 31 to 38 years.
(source: sociologist Nancy Howell)

Alternatively,
population geneticists Marc Tremblay and Hélène Vézina

found a generational interval, based on the years between parents’ and children’s marriages
to average 31.7 years
and
they determined that male generations averaged 35.0 years
while female generations averaged 28.7 years.
(source: 100 ascending Quebec genealogies)

A separate study by Biological anthropologist Agnar Helgason and colleagues
who used the Icelandic deCODE genetics database
to arrive at a female line interval of 28.12 years for the most recent generations
and 28.72 years for the whole lineage length.
Male line lineages showed a similar difference
—31.13 years for the recent generations
and 31.93 years overall.

For a more mathematically appealing average then

Helagason and fellow researchers recommended
estimating female generational line intervals at 30 years
and male generational intervals at 35 years
- based on the Quebec and Iceland studies.

We need to keep in mind
that current understandings in physical and biological sciences
are subject to change
as more data becomes available
and that data’s interpretation becomes more certain.

So, for now
when genealogists want to convert generations to years
and create probable date ranges, using an evidence-based generational interval
such as Helagason’s 30 and 35 years
- or even one developed based on your own family history research
may be the best solution.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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