Anyone else with Mars/Saturn/Pluto in the 8th house & issues with intimacy?

A little while ago, I asked a question on an astrology blog about my stellium in the 8th house (apart from mars/saturn/pluto, the 8th houses my moon too), and the answer I got from the astrologer was that it could only be seen as "brutal" (his words) - not specifically in that I could be brutal, though he said it was a possibility (I have a temper sometimes, but am generally a gentle person), but more so that I could attract brutality in my most intimate relationships - something I haven't experienced yet, thankfully. And I hope to never experience it. This is not so much what bothered me.

His real meaning was that it is a "brutal" configuration for the native who has it - especially in the case of my own chart with this stellium being libra (venus) ruled, because, as he explained, it creates unbearable anxiety over sexual intimacy in one's life (which is also often the case with emotional intimacy in a sexual relationship). Well. I was blown away. I find it hard and painful to admit that he did, in fact, hit on something there, and I was stunned at his interpretation. I've realised it's not something I can run away from - not that I have been running.

I understand saturn in the 8th, but I now understand much more what this whole stellium - with saturn in the middle - means for me in this house and sign, and that is: the more strongly and intensely I feel about someone (emotionally and sexually, and if I feel something it's usually very strong), the greater the tension I feel. It's like they're in lockstep, mars and pluto burn, but saturn restricts - so it can feel like a lid on a pot of boiling water (if you'll excuse the analogy) - not exactly what you want to be feeling when trying to get close to someone you genuinely like, and it can be very unsettling for me (though I keep it private until it's not any longer).

It is something that I am desperate to overcome: I am adamant to overcome it but I say desperate because rationally, I am fully aware of how unnecessary it is to feel this way - often as though my own life were on the line when trying to be close to someone for the first time - but yet the physical experience of tension remains with every new encounter, relationship, fling.

The one positive thing is that it never lasts: it is only ever something I experience at the beginning of getting to know someone but it's a very painful process to go through, and I'm a very private person at the best of times, so yeah. it's brutal! I've read that with saturn-pluto conjunct on it's own, we're very suited for body energy work to release trapped energy. Maybe that would help a little.

Anybody else have this combo in the 8th, or in another sexual/relationship house? Anybody else feel this way? I'd love to hear from you and know how you deal with it

hey

well this type of energy is only exemplified because of the Venus square to Pluto with saturn (6 degrees) in the 12th.

Saturn rules the 12th cusp in placidus so the Venus in 12th is connected both with Uranus and Saturn. the Saturn loops back and the Uranus Squares mercury. Creating more tension with the loop and restlessness about the situation with the Ura/Merc square.

you also think about the restlessness in the setting of the MC. which then bounces to jupiter.

what alters this energy is Jupiter square Venus as well. Jupiter rules the 10th and some of the 11th house.
uranus sextile also helps by providing detachment to venus.

what rules the 7th is actually the Sun which is unafflicted. as well as Mercury which rules 4th ,5th ,7th. mercury and sun are the relationship keys with venus.

venus rules the 3rd and the 8th.
this is communications and intense experiences thats most afflicted through rulership.

what is really connected to Venus is actually just Pluto, but saturn is in a 6 degree orb except Saturn also rules the 12th.

so basically to sum it up its probably after saturn return and a pluto transit associated with the venus set up would change the circumstances. since its occidental and malefics.

since you feel the whole stellium even though its 10+ orbs
im not sure when this should happen, but maybe after a positive transformative energy.

venus is also included in this little blue triangle it is possible that there are outlets that exist for this energy. it just seems to be modifiable instead of inevitable. i dont have personal experience with 8th though maybe it is about the intense fail.

gen6k said:

hey

well this type of energy is only exemplified because of the Venus square to Pluto with saturn (6 degrees) in the 12th.

Saturn rules the 12th cusp in placidus so the Venus in 12th is connected both with Uranus and Saturn. the Saturn loops back and the Uranus Squares mercury. Creating more tension with the loop and restlessness about the situation with the Ura/Merc square.

you also think about the restlessness in the setting of the MC. which then bounces to jupiter.

what alters this energy is Jupiter square Venus as well. Jupiter rules the 10th and some of the 11th house.
uranus sextile also helps by providing detachment to venus.

what rules the 7th is actually the Sun which is unafflicted. as well as Mercury which rules 4th ,5th ,7th. mercury and sun are the relationship keys with venus.

venus rules the 3rd and the 8th.
this is communications and intense experiences thats most afflicted through rulership.

what is really connected to Venus is actually just Pluto, but saturn is in a 6 degree orb except Saturn also rules the 12th.

so basically to sum it up its probably after saturn return and a pluto transit associated with the venus set up would change the circumstances. since its occidental and malefics.

since you feel the whole stellium even though its 10+ orbs
im not sure when this should happen, but maybe after a positive transformative energy.

venus is also included in this little blue triangle it is possible that there are outlets that exist for this energy. it just seems to be modifiable instead of inevitable. i dont have personal experience with 8th though maybe it is about the intense fail.

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Thank you gen6k,

I know that the transits I've been having (especially saturn over my stellium in the 8th) have just intensified the difficulties, but this is for me to learn about them more deeply I suppose. And learn I have.

I know there are many possible natal combinations that bring about tensions and anxieties over intimacy, but I've finally understood this stellium and it is a very frustrating case of: the more intense the feelings/desire, the more intense the tension rises. The only way to overcome it is to dive into intimacy despite the fear, but while I want that (and usually don't pull away from it) it can sometimes feel unbearable (even if the other side of unbearably tense, is unbearable good).

Does anyone else have a similar combination?

I know it's only Tuesday...
...nobody else here with this combo...?

I don't have this combination myself, but I've studied many charts that do have it. What I've learned is that fighting it is a losing proposition. You can't fight against Saturn or Pluto and win. The struggle will only make things worse. These planets and configurations are not like bacteria that we can hope to be rid of. They are essential parts of ourselves. They make us who we are.

Reading your chart, I think that Saturn's presence between Pluto and Mars may be a blessing to you. Noel Tyl says that a Pluto-Mars conjunction is "a bomb under a blanket." It's terribly volatile and sometimes highly destructive both to the individual and to others in their life who may be subject to the unbridled rage that erupts from a very deep place, sometimes without warning or apparent provocation. The 10° distance between Mars and Pluto is not too great to qualify as a conjunction when these planets are involved. Ironically, Saturn links the two of them more strongly. And yet that link can also be seen as the thing that reins them in. Saturn is the bridle providing structure, limits and logic which are not qualities ordinarily associated with Mars and Pluto.

I can understand how difficult it is for you to feel the kind of tension you've described, particularly at the beginning of a relationship. That's Saturn, doing his job. I can't remember whether it's Howard Sasportas or Liz Greene who says that Saturn is the gateway to Pluto's burning ground, but it's true. I think that your chart provides resources for working with this tension, though.

Saturn is sextile Neptune and trine Mercury, both in signs under Saturn's rulership. Imagination and the ability to learn and communicate intelligently are there to help you with Saturn.

You've said:

The only way to overcome [the tension] is to dive into intimacy despite the fear, but while I want that (and usually don't pull away from it) it can sometimes feel unbearable (even if the other side of unbearably tense, is unbearable good).

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I agree. You must dive in, dive deeply. Nothing else will satisfy Pluto. Following your urge is a way to work with Mars, too. The unbearable feeling is actually bearable, though, if you're honest about it. It's not really unbearable as much as it's unfamiliar or unpracticed. You can become familiar with it. You can practice it. You can approach it with curiosity (Mercury) and playful engagement (Neptune).

Communicate with your partners. Be as open and as transparent as you can be. Then try to be even more open and transparent after that. Vulnerability may not be comfortable sometimes, and, unfortunately, some people may try to take advantage of you or manipulate you in some way. But on the whole, your chart indicates that this is the best direction for you. You will not spin out of control. Things will change. You will change. Change is the only constant, though.

There is grace and blessing in your chart. Venus and Jupiter cooperate when they square each other and their presence is strong.

Have courage. Meditate to calm your mind and get lots of exercise to calm your body. You'll be okay.

Ever I was sexually abused i can't get intimate with any one and I feel uncomfortable people talking about sex and intimacy the last thing i don't want to be near to is sex if i think about sex I go to a deep dark places I don't want to be iI have saturn on the 8th house that could possibly mean it

MJ82 said:

I know it's only Tuesday...
...nobody else here with this combo...?

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I don't have this exact combo. However, I have a Saturn, Pluto conjunction. Depending whether equal houses are selected, they are posited together either in the 7th or 8th house.

@ Peregrine_Moon: thank you very much for your thoughtful reply: I will reflect a lot on what you wrote, and yes, I know that saturn is supposed to teach us once we submit to its lessons without fear and with courage. I read that saturn in the 8th alone invites us to master the issues of this house, and that with saturn one can master them. It takes time and it takes faith in oneself, that I know.

@ heretolearn: how do you feel (if at all) that saturn/pluto conjunction plays out in your personal/intimate life (be it 7th or 8th)? I know it's a generational aspect, but I feel it no less personally!

@ TheV: I'm sorry to hear that. I know quite a few people who have experiences abuse and who have gone on to have healthy relationships with people, so it does and can happen. Have you ever spoken to someone about this? (((((hugs)))))

MJ82 said:

@ TheV: I'm sorry to hear that. I know quite a few people who have experiences abuse and who have gone on to have healthy relationships with people, so it does and can happen. Have you ever spoken to someone about this? (((((hugs)))))

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I live in broad minded environment a sexual abused man is not accepted. It just me and myself to deal with it

MJ82 said:

@ heretolearn: how do you feel (if at all) that saturn/pluto conjunction plays out in your personal/intimate life (be it 7th or 8th)? I know it's a generational aspect, but I feel it no less personally!

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I tend to be very picky and rather intense/serious once involved. This I attribute to the Pluto (pickiness) and Saturn (seriousness) influences. This also means I can get a tad bit obsessive, but I feel this is tempered by my Venus and Sun in Aqua.
You said

creates unbearable anxiety over sexual intimacy

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, but I haven't noticed that so far. The lid's not stuck on the pot, so to speak. Perhaps this is due to my Mars not being in this house.

heretolearn said:

I tend to be very picky and rather intense/serious once involved. This I attribute to the Pluto (pickiness) and Saturn (seriousness) influences. This also means I can get a tad bit obsessive, but I feel this is tempered by my Venus and Sun in Aqua.
You said , but I haven't noticed that so far. The lid's not stuck on the pot, so to speak. Perhaps this is due to my Mars not being in this house.

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Yes I think for me mars in the 8th (and I also have my moon there, but not part of this stellium, only conjunct mars) probably intensifies things, and as it does so the fear of letting go increases - hence the anxiety. I just have to keep learning (and practicing) how to dive in. Like riding a bike, right? Lol

MJ82 said:

I know it's only Tuesday...
...nobody else here with this combo...?

Click to expand...

Hey, I have this combo. I've been looking everywhere for something about this. Were you born 82? Want to share birthdays? I have mines conjunct Jupiter on the 9th house cusp. I can't agree I feel the same as though. But, I do have alot of conflict in relationships. My moon is in the 5th.

saturn conjunct mars can lead to impotency in males, feeling inadequate or fearful in intimate contact such as sex. Women can tend not to be able to relax in sexual situations and can be frigid. This is a combination that needs to watch for sexual abuse and never to put yourself into a situation of risk where there could possibly be danger of being stalked, controlled or obsessed over. Never go anywhere where there is the slightest danger and dark.

Hey MJ82,
In whole signs I have Saturn in the 8th (Virgo) along with my North Node, and in Placidus I have Pluto in the 8th (also with the North Node). I definitely can relate to the fear and holding back when it comes to intimacy. I'm VERY cautious when dating someone new and sometimes I DO feel that I'm immobilized by the fear (and it's definitely a push/pull). I recently had a new relationship end because he felt like I wasn't moving quickly enough (if you catch my drift), but I felt there were other incompatibilities (for me at least) so this wasn't a huge loss - except for the fact that I continue to obsess about it! Maybe it's because I have Mercury, Mars and Venus in Scorpio (and my Sun), or perhaps this transiting stellium through my 2nd house is igniting issues related to self worth. In any case, I've come to the same conclusion as you that I just have to dive in and push through the fear (assuming the person is relationship worthy) - although it's definitely challenging to say the least! I also think that the right person should have a dollop of patience with us.

I have something very similar to this aspect. I have Mars/Saturn/Pluto in Scorpio. The 8th house is going to be much of the same. There are several issues with it. It is a terrible aspect, but it is not boring. It is also a very strong aspect of someone who is strong. It is the strongest combination in the zodiac outside of having those planets conjunct in Capricorn, which would be stunning. Pure willpower...

The worst of that aspect is that it is an abuse aspect, both sexual and physical. Mars, in a woman's chart, is the males she likes and the males she attracts. You are attracted to males who love intensely. The positive of that is that it means that you have very serious love affairs that are extremely close. The negative of this is that what is close can destroy. You can attract partners who will do anything to keep you. Or you may attract partners who do anything to control you. And a very negative Scorpio pattern can seriously harm you because Scorpio type men who are not evolved can be extremely revengeful and even attempt to kill you. This aspect is absolutely dangerous.

The best way to channel this energy is to find males who are great healers, and stick with them as best you can. Observe men and only associate with the males who have a good record of helping, loving, and healing others. Look for the highest manifestation of Scorpio so that you are attracting a male who is a great healer, and not a great criminal.

You may also find men who are in authority, use power and control, and who fight for something. So, maybe you will fall in love with a cop, someone in the army, someone who saves others in near death situations. You may fall in love with someone who is very strong, very brave, and not easily broken. The best is that you find a partner who is extraordinary as a man and competent.

Now, as far as you go, this tends to make women very sexy. That can go many different ways. You may get more attention than you can deal with. It can also signify sexual abuse. Even if you are not going out of your way to get sexual attention, people unconsciously see your actions as sexually motivated and they will respond to you in turn.

Your personal conduct is that you control your anger, feel as though you cannot express it, and are afraid of your own anger. You will find that you probably have a pattern of withholding. Saturn will not accept a sloppy Mars. You may try to control and perfect your behavior. The problem is Saturn and Pluto are not in agreement. When Pluto takes over, you will feel ashamed of yourself. How could I get that angry? There is a lot of embarrassment over anger when it does exhibit because you want very much to be perfect. Eventually, all the repressed anger emerges from having to be the mature one, and you erupt in fury that disturbs everyone and yourself. You feel like you cannot believe you failed and got so angry. This will keep happening until you recognize that you have a problem with repressing anger to be perfect and then exploding when you cannot take one more thing. In essence, you were reared in childhood that you needed to control yourself to a great degree.

Your enemies will use this against you. You may get them because it is Scorpio and Scorpio is the sign of backstabbing. You may bring out complicated jealous emotions that are not logical in others. You must confront your anger because of this.

A final issue is with obsessive relationships. You may find that you fall in love so deeply you have to back off your relationships. (At least, don't tell the other person or they will freak.) You may have a very strong sex drive and relationships are erotic. If the relationship doesn't have this element to it, you feel like you are missing out and won't spend time in it. You should not get into a serious relationship with someone because they are "nice" and "your best friend" unless that best friend is a friend down there. You also have a lot of control, and you won't engage in sexual behavior unless it is exactly what you want, to which you will just wait to get it. People with this aspect may also be friends with others who are very sexy and manage to keep their boundaries because they have great self-control and enjoy that about themselves. The reasoning is because it is deeply unfair to the other person; you will resort back to searching for that soul binding deeply erotic relationship and really hurt the other person. The more serious problem with this is that it isn't internal and it is external. You attract stalkers.

This was an awesome thread. I have Mars, Pluto and Saturn all in the 8th house in Libra. I can get very violent and my anger can be explosive but only when I feel i have been unfairly treated or taken advantage of. I’m new to astrology but have really been diggin deep into it and it has help me except myself and my flaws. Just writing this I realize that Libra is all about justice and being fair , balance and when someone treats me unfairly, you betta get out my way cause I’m gonna light up. Still even when angry I do manage to keep some self control so that I do not put myself in a situation that can cause my life to be ruin. I can pull back from doing everything my mind wants to do. I am attracted to men who love intensely it makes me feel wanted and safe and loved. If your not a bit jealous it make me think you don’t care at all, but please don’t smother me just a right amount of jealousy. I am jealous and possessive but only to a certain extent, out of site out of mine, as long as it’s not in my face , but if I see it 👿👿. I am not saying this is good but it’s who I am, it’s my energy and I try to be as careful as possible with preventing my anger from flaring.