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Unread 02-10-2020, 05:37 AM
piercethevale's Avatar
piercethevale piercethevale is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Greetings all, especially to my fellow Yank's.
Let me begin by saying that I don't know when it did become available but apparently Bernie Sanders' birth data, in particular, the time of day, is now available...at least according to astrotheme it is. They have changed the format at that website, though, since astrodienst has acquired it and there is no longer a system of rating the accuracy of the given information or any reference as to where, or from whom, the information is accredited to, however.

I'll take a chance that it is genuine and I have cast a chart for Bernie as well as one for, both, Pete Buttigieg and Mike Bloomberg. Since the nomination presently is pointing to the three of them as ending up the most likely candidates to succeed I'm going to analyze those three natal charts and see what I'm able to produce as their also becoming likely to win the presidential election in November.

.i WELCOME ALL REPLIES AND OBSERVATIONS BY YOU OTHER MEMBERS, ALONG WITH YOUR OWN RESULTANT ANALYSES... BUT PLEASE, KEEP IT CIVIL. I'D ADD THAT YOU'D TRY NOT TO POST ANYTHING THAT IS LUDICROUS, BUT THAT DOG AIN'T GONNA HUNT... AS FOR THE RUMORS THAT ARE ALREADY BEING SPREAD... AND AFTER ALL, THIS IS AN ELECTION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
IF YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE CONFLICTING DATA PLEASE LET IT BE KNOWN TO ME AND THE REST OF THE MEMBERS HERE AS WELL. THANK YOU. ptv

Please note, for those of yo unfamiliar with me and or my methods, let it be known that I make much use of the Sabian Symbols, as ascertained by Elsie Wheeler and Marc Jones, yet, presented and interpreted by Dane Rudhyar.
I also greatly utilize Astrological Parts/Lots and interpret their indvidual influences to the particular person that is to whom the chart represents through the Sabian Symbols found for the particular Sign and degree an Astrological Part happens to be found in.

Astrological Parts are symbolically active and I have provided numerous examples over the last, nearly, fifteen years, giving many demonstrations to the fact here at this forum and in the book I have published.

I haven't gotten too far with any of the three, as of yet, but what I do have, so far, I find interesting, and intriguing, enough to compel me to get started on this presently... as the primaries have already begun and time is of the essence from here on. A hopeful's chances can be dashed in but a day and just as swiftly be enhanced, or at least salvaged, just as swiftly, in my observational experience of many years of political awareness as to elections for political office.

I'll begin with Bernie Sanders.

The natal chart axis, interpreted through the Sabian Symbols, found for the four positions, i.e. the Asc., Desc., M.C, and I.C. are interpreted as, in the same order, as the "WHO". the "WHERE-TO" [or "WHOM-TO", as I sometimes find it to be more easily understood by others], the "HOW" [in interpretation as to the spiritual evolution of the person in question and the "WHY" as to the mundane affairs of the same person], and the "WHY" [as to one's spiritual evolution and the "HOW" as to their mundane affairs]

Bernie's Asc. is given as 25* Scorpio 09' 07", that is the 26th degree of Scorpio, and that just so happens to also be the exact same Sign and degree as the Part of Fortune derived from the natal chart of the USA [the "Zero Hour" chart, i.e. 12:00:01 A.M., July 4, 1776 Philadelphia, Penn.]. Though I am presently inclined to believe that all natal charts must be adjusted for the Sidereal precession, the Sabian Symbols found for the original natal chart remains in effect throughout the entire lifetime of an individual, or nation. I believe, at present, that the Sidereal adjustment only be made as so to ascertain the point of conjunction.

The Part of Fortune reveals... symbolically, through the relevant Sabian Symbol, the "Actional", or "Emotional/Cultural", or "Individual/Mental", according to Rudhyar's interpretations of how the Sabian Symbols exert their particular influences changing ever five degrees, repeatedly, in succession... just how one, or the society of a nation, must apply itself in order to produce the most fortuitous circumstances in which to assist oneself in achieving their destiny, in accomplishing their "dharma". It has little, if anything at all, to do with a "fortune" in terms of wealth in a monetary sense.

The Sabian Symbol for the 26th degree of Scorpio is [according to Dane Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols, "An Astrological Mandala"]


"SCORPIO 26: AMERICAN INDIANS MAKING CAMP AFTER MOVING INTO A NEW TERRITORY.

KEYNOTE:
The ability to adjust swiftly to a new situation by tuning in to its requirements.

He who lives in harmony with nature, moving on as new needs arise, finds himself intuitively at home everywhere. He does not make demands upon life, for he has identified himself with the great rhythms of the biosphere and he functions at peace with what they produce. This is the message of the American Indian culture which European invaders so wantonly and meaninglessly destroyed nearly everywhere. Western man has lost faith in life because he wants to dominate and enslave manifestations.

This represents the first stage of the forty-eighth five-fold sequence in the cycle of experience. It brings to us a message we greatly need today — the message of peaceful adaptation to nature, and through adaptation, of
EFFICIENT FUNCTIONING in all life situations.
"

I, myself, can easily see how and why it is relevant to the U.S.A. as being symbolic of it's Part of Fortune... regrettable, perhaps, but apparently necessary as according to Divine decree but as to being the "WHO" of Bernie Sanders'one has to first consider that it is of the "Individual/Mental" type of Sabian Symbol I think that it gives wonderful insight into the kind of person Mr. Sanders is and that is given most particularly with the words within Dane's "Keynote", r.e."The ability to adjust swiftly to a new situation by tuning in to its requirements." and His summation, r.e. "... peaceful adaptation to nature, and through adaptation, of EFFICIENT FUNCTIONING in all life situations."


Bernie's Desc., His "WHERE-TO", is shown us through the Sabian Symbol found for the 26th degree of Taurus [ibid.]

"TAURUS 26: A SPANISH GALLANT SERENADES HIS BELOVED.

KEYNOTE:
The ritualization of individual desires.

At this level we see the play of collective values as they affect the individual person and indeed confirm his individuality by giving it a solid basis in a tradition. The individual is still attached to these group-values; he "belongs." Nevertheless, this state is necessary for a safe and secure sense of differentiation within an enfolding whole. Music and the culturally acceptable rituals of love are cultural products, yet each person can use them for the spontaneous fulfillment of his very own desires.

This is the first symbol in the twelfth five-fold series. It reveals the individual human being making use of his personal status to find fulfillment and a sense of social identity. This is
ROLE-PLAYING in its most enjoyable form.
"

As this applies to Mr. Sanders the role He plays is that of a politician and not so much as being for a reason born out of personal desire...not in a selfish sense, anyways, but rather in an impersonal sense of concern and duty to his fellow Americans.... imho, of course... as I just don't "see" Bernie as being one of selfish personal motivation as to why He got into politics and continues on relentlessly.

Bernie Sanders' M.C. The "HOW" of his natal chart, as to his his evolving spiritually and the "WHY" of his mundane, earthly affairs, is at 08* Virgo 27" 24", that is the 9th degree of Virgo. [ibid.]

"VIRGO 9: AN EXPRESSIONIST PAINTER AT WORK.

KEYNOTE
: The urge to express one's individualized sense of value regardless of tradition.

At this stage the individual is seen reacting against cultural standards and stereotyped ways of interpreting his perceptions. This is a statement of uncompromising self-reliance, which may even imply a kind of defiance and a challenge to society. The mind is seeking to discover the character of the basic and true foundation of individual selfhood, the AUM tone (or logos) of individual being. In the process, however, what is expressed is usually the reflection of a deep catharsis with emotionally charged and often tragic overtones.

This fourth stage symbol brings to us the hint of a technique of transformation of the personality. What predominates is a sense of inner conflict and an over-selfconscious attempt at "being oneself." But there is a great difference between being an origin of development pregnant with futurity, and deliberately sought for
ORIGINALITY.
"

This so describes the type of person that Bernie is. In Rudhyar's own words, "...reacting against cultural standards and stereotyped ways of interpreting his perceptions. This is a statement of uncompromising self-reliance, which may even imply a kind of defiance and a challenge to society", and Dane's "Keynote" synopsis "...to express one's individualized sense of value regardless of tradition." Truly because American society is, and has been for sometime, headed on a path of self destruction or, at the least, on one of ruination. Maybe not by the intention of the masses but surely because we are being led, pushed, shoved, and sometimes threatened to get us to comply. We have been lied to in our history books at school, brainwashed by a controlled media, intimidated by the minions of those that are in power and of great wealth that they use to further their own selfish agenda.
Bernie Sanders is a "painter" whom has been painting us his vision of what a grander landscape the United States could be... what it should be, as the founders of our nation envisioned it themselves.

Bernie Sanders' I.C., the "WHY" of the chart axis as to the transition desired by the creator from "WHO" He was cast to be as to the "WHERE-TO" given Him as his desired destiny and by the manner of "HOW" the creator wishes it to be accomplished, as I already wrote about above that the "HOW" is given in symbolic form through the Sabian Symbol found for his M.C.... . and the I.C.also gives the manner of "HOW", through its Sabian Symbol, He should conduct his mundane affairs.

The I.C. is in the 9th degree of Pisces. [ibid.]

"PISCES 9: A JOCKEY SPURS HIS HORSE, INTENT ON OUT-DISTANCING HIS RIVALS.

KEYNOTE:
Intense mobilization of energy and skill in the drive for success in any social performance affected by the competitive spirit.

Since the end of the archaic ages and the stressing of individualism, especially in our American society which worships the material images of "success," the desire to win any kind of "race" engenders an often-feverish release of energy controlled by technical skill and long practice. Wherever this symbol is found, it indicates the need to spur one's total being toward speedy attainment of whatever goal it may be.

This is the fourth symbol in the sixty-eighth series; its technical significance is quite evident. Every superfluous "weight," every unnecessary consideration is to be dismissed in the one-pointed attempt to reach one's social goal.
SELF-QUICKENING may be the Keyword
."

How so very much this symbol describes the man. If He could live to be 200 years old I would wager that He would be in the running of the race for president every four years, relentlessly,
Personally speaking, I pray that He is presently running for the last time, unless He achieves it and then runs for re-election.

The 12th House cusp reveals symbolically, through the Sabian Symbol found for the Sing and degree it is within, one's answer to what they perceive as the greatest problem the world about them is contending with. In Bernie Sanders' natal chart the 12th House cusp is at 04* Scorpio 41' [as His 12th and 6th Houses are "intercepted Houses" giving Him a Sagittarian cast of personality to the affairs of those two House in an, otherwise, chart of predominantly Scorpionic cast by ascendant.] That is in the 5th degree of Scorpio and thus what Bernie sees as the answer as to what he perceives being the most challenging problem the world at large faces, is... [ibid.]

"SCORPIO 5: A MASSIVE ROCKY SHORE RESISTS THE POUNDING OF THE SEA.

KEYNOTE:
The inertia of all institutionalized procedures.

Slow is the rise of the land from the vast ocean, but once it is formed it develops a formidable resistance to change in spite of storms. Likewise, once a culture has expressed its basic symbols and its particular way of thinking, feeling and acting in concrete institutions, these change very slowly indeed. The individual who came to the great city (Scorpio i symbol) soon finds his life set by the rhythms of city living, which obliterate vaster life processes and the moving tides of evolution.

This is the last of the five symbols of the forty-third sequence. We see in it how binding and resistant a communal way of life can become. In this there is strength and stability, and these are necessary factors in the social life of man — until new horizons beckon. The Keyword is
STABILITY.
"

For the purpose of understanding what I see as being of primary significance here are Dane's words in the summation, "...how binding and resistant a communal way of life can become. In this there is strength and stability, and these are necessary factors in the social life of man — until new horizons beckon. The Keyword is STABILITY."
Bernie has been inaccurately labeled a "Socialist". Yes, while some of his ideas, and means, that He has managed to get implemented, are socialistic in nature, Bernie is a man that believes in the community, in the communal way of living as a society.[not "Socialism", not "Communism", but "Communal-ism"... please understand, and know, that there is a difference between the three.] A society stably built upon a foundation of mutual benefit and cooperation is a society that is healthy, self nurturing, resistant to societal erosion and destruction. A society that does not turn a deaf ear towards cries arising from genuine need.


As for the reason that I was able to predict Donald Trump successfully attaining the office of president of the United States back in January of 2016 [It is posted here in this forum] which, at that time, the political "pundits" were giving Him, at best, a 2% chance of even getting the Republican Party's nomination, by primarily observing the Sabian Symbols found for His Part of Fortune, Part of Hidden Identity aka Part of Oration, and Part of Catastrophe [that's not all that convinced me, but I'm addressing Astrological Parts at this point in this analysis and the knowledge of which did pretty much convince me, at that time, that He was going to eventually win the entire thing] I've derived those three Astrological Parts for each of these three candidates, so far... I'm going to derive all that I possibly can , eventually...but as I wrote, I want to get the ball rolling on this subject...now... and time is a wasting.

Bernie Sander's Part of Fortune is at 28* Gemini 57' 35", that is the 29th degree of Gemini. {Please see what I wrote above about te Part of Fortune, already, so as to be conscious of how the symbolism relates to the man.]
This is of the "Individual/Mental" variety of Sabian Symbol, according to Dane Rudhyar.[ibid.]

"GEMINI 29: THE FIRST MOCKINGBIRD OF SPRING.

KEYNOTE:
The creative exuberance of the human soul in response to basic life experiences.

The mockingbird is able to imitate sounds he hears, but actually he does more than imitate, for he weaves all these sounds into melodies which at times can have joyous amplitude and instinctively creative spontaneity. The symbol refers to the capacity which the talented individual has to take collective material and to transform it under the urge of biological productivity and instinctual love. The song rises, powered by these great natural drives, very much as so-called popular songs rise from the youthful soul in response to deep personal or social emotions.

At this fourth stage of the five-fold sequence, what is presented to us symbolically is the reaction of the individual who has become sensitive to many life currents in his environment and who is able to exteriorize this welling-up response as a gift to his society, displaying
VIRTUOSITY.
"

Once again, it is Danes summation [the last paragraph] that bespeaks so much about the man...Bernie has truly incorporated the symbolism of his Part of Fortune into his being...it surely is a guiding precept in his living day to day, year after year... "a gift to his society"... To borrow and paraphrase from the movie Lawrence of Arabia,He is a river of optimism, and inspiration, to his people


Bernie's Part of Hidden Identity, aka Part of Oration [Asc. + Saturn - Moon] is derived to be at 04* Leo 16' 46", that is the 5th degree of Leo.

I'll get to Bernie's Part in a moment, but first I want to share what Donald Trump's Part of Hidden Identity, aka Part of Oration, is as so that you all can understand why I put such an emphasis on this particular Astrological Part for those running for election to a political office...especially that of the president of the United States.
Donald's Part is at 02* Aries 34' 43", that is the 3rd degree of Aries [ibid.]

"ARIES 3: THE CAMEO PROFILE OF A MAN, SUGGESTING THE SHAPE OF HIS COUNTRY.
KEYNOTE: The sustaining power of the Whole, as the individual identifies themselves with It’s life.
Having become objectively aware of their nature and basic humanity, the individualizing person finds power and inner security in realizing their essential identity with the section of the universe in which they operate. They and it seem to the consciousness united in a cosmic-planetary process - in a 'participation mystique.' Metaphysically expressed, this is the concept of the identity of Atman and Brahman. In another sense, through the ability to identify themselves with the complex of life activities surrounding them, the individual person can become truly, not only an image and representation of the Whole of their natal environment (local, planetary and perhaps eventually cosmic), but an agent through whom the Whole may express itself in an act of creative resonance and outpouring. This is the avatar ideal — the ideal of a transpersonal' life and consciousness totally consecrated to and directed by a divine Power. This Power can also be conceived as the archetypal Self, the Christ-principle as it operates in and through an individual person and destiny who have become its outward manifestation in order to meet a collective human need.
The concept of the formal-structural identity of the universal macrocosm and the human microcosm is a very important one, as it manifests itself at many levels. It provided an inner sense of security and harmonic strength to archaic man. To the modern individual assailed by surface evidence of meaninglessness and futility it gives a feeling of participation in the vast tide of evolution. It is the answer to the tragic sense of alienation so prevalent today.
This symbol characterizes the third stage of the first five-fold sequence of phases: the stage of PARTICIPATION IN A GREATER LIFE."

So then, perhaps many, if not all, of you can see why Donald became so popular, so quickly, with the American people? When He speaks, people see Him as the embodiment of the United States. Granted He says a lot more...too much in fact, imho...but many people have a tendency to hear only as much as they wish to hear, unfortunately.

So then, let's get back to Bernie Sanders here. Bernie's Part of Hidden Identity, aka Part of Oration, aka Part of Influence is in the 5th degree of Leo. As like the Sabian Symbol for Donald Trumps Astrological Part, it is also of the "Actional" variety. [ibid.]

"LEO 5: ROCK FORMATIONS TOWER OVER A DEEP CANYON.

KEYNOTE:
The structuring power of elemental forces during the long cycle of planetary evolution.

Dwarfing the time allowed to individual human beings, the vast periods of geological evolution not only awe our imagination, but allow the slow yet magnificent work of elemental forces as they mold landscapes and canyons, rocks and mountains. This symbol points to our need to acquire a much vaster perspective on what we are able to do - and on our yearning for prolonged youth and our pride in masculine achievements. The works of nature should make us feel humble and help us to 'planetarize' our consciousness.

This first stage symbol concludes the first level sequence. It stands in broad pictorial contrast to the first, or rather it seeks to impress us with our vanity as creators of forms and mental achievers. To the dramatic and proud Leo type, it presents a picture of
IMPERSONALITY.
"

The manner in which I have to interpret this, as to Bernie's Part of Oration/Influence/Hidden Identity, is that He sees and speaks of a need to reform, reshape, redefine our nation into one that will be as enduring as those most permanent forms that nature produces. Please recall what I wrote pertaining to His 12th House cusp...that "Stability" is what He believes is the answer to societys' greatest problem...and Rudhyar's keyword, "IMPERSONALITY" should not be overlooked her, either. As it can be taken to mean that what He proposes to be created is a system that is impersonal in nature...not a system that favors any one group over another, any one person over another, but rather a system that is the most favorable to all.


Bernie Sanders' Part of Catastrophe [Asc. + Uranus - Sun].
It has been shown to me that the Sabian Symbol found for ones Part of Catastrophe is literally symbolic of what might be assessed to be, or become, the most profoundly life changing incident to occur to that individual.
But, I have also found that it is a necessary catastrophe, one that must occur at sometime in the individuals life. For some, like myself, in order to be a catalyst for change at the right time in order for one to proceed in the correct direction. For a few such as that of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth, as it is the reason He was crucified in order to become a martyr. some might say...others will say it was in order to fulfill his karma, and yet others will say that it was in order for Him to fulfill his destiny.
Whether or not one agrees that I have produce the true natal chart for Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth, I think most will agree...and certainly almost everyone that considers themselves to be a Christian by religious affiliation, that it certainly "fits the man" as to what His greatest catastrophe was.

So then, please allow me to introduce here what I derived that Part of Catastrophe to be for Yeshu'a/Jesus so as to demonstrate how this particular Astrological Part is effective. That is the 29th degree of Virgo. [ibid.]

"VIRGO 28: A BALDHEADED MAN WHO HAS SEIZED POWER.
KEYNOTE: The sheer power of personality in times that call for decision.
Whether at the religious or at the socio-political and cultural level there comes a time when obsolescent patterns of order and cultural refinement have to be radically and relentlessly challenged. Catabolic personages emerge to seize power and dictate decisions that alter the structures of society; or within an individual life, an intense urge for cathartic changes mobilizes the will, and traumatic decisions are made. At such times, the issue has to be met and, ruthless as the power may appear, it must be accepted.
At this third stage of the thirty-sixth sequence we face the un-postponable necessity for decision and transformation. Existence is motion. No static formation, however beautiful and inspiring, can remain long unchallenged. Everything bows to THE POWER OF THE WILL — divine, executively human, or Satanic."

Note: radically and relentlessly challenging obsolescent [or corrupted] religious and socio-political structures of society... those particular power bases... a Catabolic personage urging for cathartic change.

As to my own Part of Catastrophe it is in the 17th degree of Capricorn and it is a symbol about [according to Dane Rudhyar and the keywords He wrote for the interpretation of the Sabian Symbol for that degree, {ibid.}] "RELEASE FROM INHIBITIONS".
In August of 1984, in the region of the country I was living at the time, there was a lot of drug abuse, unprotected, "free" sex, and other potentially dangerous activities occurring and those temptations were being constantly presented to me...even offered to me...and I decided that if I didn't leave that area, and right away, I might do myself great harm...perhaps even end up dead. Considering that some very destructive drugs were just makking a widespread scene, [for one example crack cocaine, and there were a number of others just as potentially dangerous, some even deadly, and some yet became even deadlier. A neighbor of mine lost his 18 year old son, just a month after he graduated high school, only five years ago when the lad took a Xanex at the end of the day and then came home and fell asleep upon his parents living room couch after they had gone to bed themselves that night. He was found dead in the morning...as what He thought to be a legitimate pharmaceutically manufactured Xanex that someone had obtained through a prescription was in fact rather one produced in China and laced with fentanyl. Considering that AIDS was just about to become known of at that time, in the early 1980's, had I continued to reside in the area I was living in I might have ended up dead soon enough, from one thing or another.
So, I left that area and drove for two days to Los Angeles, called upon my brother for a place to relocate for long enough to decide as to where I should try to permanently relocate and what I should pursue both as for a career and manner of lifestyle to commit to...as I had realized it was imperative that I do so.
I arrived just in time to find that my brother had been laid of from work for nearly two years and while awaiting a call to go back to work He had spent that time studying all he could about astrology in the effort to determine what, if anything, was genuine about it...and what was wrong, what had become corrupted, of it, read a ton of Rudhyar and studied Dane's book on the Sabian Symbols... I spent the next nine months living with him...we both got work for the same contractor, we both worked out at the same gym nightly, hung out together on the weekends ...and thus I got a nine month intensive lesson on what He had collected and proven to himself, and in turn proved to me, what he had amassed as to what is genuine of "Traditional astrology" and other forms of astrological practices that also proved to be so...in particular the Sabian Symbols, as interpreted and presented by Dan Rudhyar.
That was beginning in August of 1984 and I have never ceased studying the "science' since that first day He demonstrated to me the veracity of his findings.
That's what I mean by how the Part of Catastrophe is necessary but doesn't necessarily mean that it will be that which leads you to death. In my cae it was a cathartic, that which caused me to change direction and find my true calling.
Let me just say this about this particular Astrological Part as a final word of advice. To be forewarned of what it is symbolically gives one the advantage of mitigating the damage it will cause you.

Bernie's Part of Catastrophe is at 09* Leo 53' 30", that is the 10th degree of Leo. [ibid.]

"LEO 10: EARLY MORNING DEW SPARKLES AS SUNLIGHT FLOODS THE FIELD.

KEYNOTE:
The exalted feeling that rises within the soul of the individual who has successfully passed through the long night which has tested his strength and his faith.

The cold air of night having precipitated upon the field of man's consciousness the moisture of his deepest feelings, this widely spread dew is blessed with the light of significance by the rising sun of the new day. Even tears can be transformed into jewels in the light of victory over night and sorrow.

At this fifth stage of the present sequence we see the potential culmination of the process which began on a note of social and cultural crisis. The would-be reformer has to meet many emotional problems as he begins his work of creation. Creation means transformation; the reformer is actually a transformer if he is truly a creative and inspired individual open to the spirit that 'makes everything new.' The building of a new society, and of one's renewed personality as well, is just as much a process of artistic creation as the making of a delicate glass vase or a symphony. The Keyword is
TRANSFIGURATION.
"

Did you "see" it? For those of you that didn't let me take a passage from the above and present it again "...the potential culmination of the process which began on a note of social and cultural crisis. The would-be reformer has to meet many emotional problems as he begins his work of creation. Creation means transformation; the reformer is actually a transformer if he is truly a creative and inspired individual open to the spirit that 'makes everything new.' The building of a new society, and of one's renewed personality as well, is just as much a process of artistic creation as the making of a delicate glass vase or a symphony."

Please recall what His M.C. Sabian Symbol is and what Rudhyar wrote pertaining to that, "... ..."AN EXPRESSIONIST PAINTER AT WORK." and what Dane wrote in explanation, "The building of a new society, and of one's renewed personality as well, is just as much a process of artistic creation as the making of a delicate glass vase or a symphony."
It seems to me that this "catastrophe" has already occurred in Bernie's life. He has been slighted for his early in life associations and some of the proposals and efforts He's made towards the building of a new society....and that has cost him dearly in terms of political popularity.
He's about as experienced now as any person could ever be, and, I believe, likely as wizened now from the experiences to date. Besides, I doubt that you can find a single person that is an adherent of the religion of Christianity that believes that what Yeshu'a/Jesus did, r.e. [challenging those religious and political power structures] was wrong People that are the catalyst for great change often suffer greatly for it. Take Abraham Lincoln for another example.

That's all I have at present. There are other factors I found, that I believe, contributed to Donald Trump getting elected in 2016. One, for example, is that transiting Venus was conjunct His natal Part of Kings & Royalty, which is an Astrological Part I've never studied yet and the title probably doesn't necessarily pertain to only that of royal peerage and such...as here in the United States peerage doesn't mean a doggone thing...except to those that are among our citizenry that are considered to have such in other countries, or have some sort of blood, or associative, relationship to same...but it usually means very little, if anything, to the great majority of us Americans.
There's also the fact that Trump's natal North Node is conj. the U.S.A.'s natal Mars, and despite whether or not one should adjust natal charts according to Sidereal precession, the fact remains that they both share the same Sabian Symbol. Then there's the matter of Trump's natal Part of Faith/Hope is the same Sign and degree as the U.S.A.'s part of Intelligence & Skill which are in the 18th degree of Pisces and has for its Sabian Symbol [ibid.] "IN A GIGANTIC TENT, VILLAGERS WITNESS A SPECTACULAR PERFORMANCE.
KEYNOTE: The collective appeal of a well-staged and exciting display of skill and/or oratory", and Dane's Keyword[s] summation, "PUBLIC SELF-DRAMATIZATION.", but the 18th degree of Pisces also happens to be the USA's natal chart Part of Catastrophe... so as to whether this will amount to his presidency ultimately becoming a disaster or whether it had something to do with His getting elected to begin with, I honestly don't know...but I do certainly find it to be interesting and as much so that I thought that I should mention it.

Then there's the matter that come this November the transiting North Node will be conjunct his own natal North node, which is at 20 Gemini 48' 14". It will be precisely so just four or five days before the election and, in fact, will remain in the 21st degree of Gemini until November 26th.
Jupiter, Saturn, and Pluto, however, will both be in opposition to His natal Venus and Saturn, Jupiter will be conjunct, within a one degree orb, with his natal Vertex...what that means as to Jupiter conj. natal vertex I haven't any idea but I thought that I should include it for those that might find significance in it.
Considering that most everyone seems to believe He will be re-elected, at this time, and considering the transiting North Node will be exactly conjunct his own North Node just four days prior to the election [the 29th of October] and within a half of a degree on the day of the election yet still in the same degree, i.e. the 21st of Gemini, I'd say that despite the Jupiter, Saturn, and Pluto oppositions in transit to His natal Venus and Saturn at that time seems to me to be a very good indication that He will sway the public towards voting for him.

The capper is that Neptune will be .conjunct the USA's natal Part of Catastrophe, which is at 17* Pisces 44' 11" and its Part of Intelligence & Skill at 17* Pisces 52' 11"...and please recall what the Sabian Symbol is for that degree and that it includes displays of public oratory, e.g. campaign speeches, and considering that it is Neptune that is the planet in play here and that Neptune is that planet which stimulates the imaginative faculties, and when in adverse aspect can result in delusional fantasies and the like, that is not going to beneficent to the American voters trying to decide whom is the best candidate.
Besides, those adverse oppositions from Jupiter, Saturn and Pluto to Trump's natal Venus and Saturn are indicative, for the most part, of troubles caused by other than his own actions.. and as for Pluto opposite Saturn that can get real nasty as to a point that absolute evil of the most malefic and powerful in nature can become actively adversarial.

When the polls, those last polls in Hawaii, close on November 3rd at 11:00 P.M. EST the transiting Moon will be at 21* Gemini 00' 06", having begun at 8:00A.M EST that day at 13* Gemini 27' 50" and as Trump's natal N. Node is at 20* Gemini 48' 14", and at apprx. 21* Gemini 51' 31" adjusted for the Sidereal precession that will have occurred since the day He was born [an adjustment of + 1* 03' 17.2"] so, regardless of whether one should adjust for the Sidereal precession or not the Moon will be in a conjunction aspect the entire day of the election to His natal N. Node...and that is going to greatly assist his popularity at exactly the right time that He might need that little extra edge...that is if a "little" is all that it does truly add as that aspect greatly enhances his ability and likelihood of saying just what the public likes to hear ...or messaging by Twitter...and you all know, and know that you can bet on it and take it to the bank...that Trump will be saying and tweeting that entire day.

I wanted to include what findings I have so far for Pete Buttigieg and Mike Bloomberg in this first post but seeing as it has taken me a lot more time to write as much as I have...about a little more than seven hours... there's just no way I'm going to be able to and since I have covered Bernie, at least...whom to me is the most important because I'm hugely in favor of him getting the Oval Office...contributed nearly $700.00 to his campaign in 2016, then that's what I will go ahead and post for right now and hopefully have the other two candidates covered before the end of the day tomorrow.

I do feel compelled to inform you all of a couple of very interesting finds right now though, for as much for the reason I might not get that posted by tomorrow night as for the reason that some of you reading this before I do get that posted might not check back to read any further until much later, and if at all as for some of you.
[As astrologyweekly has informed me that my initial post is too lengthy I will cut the remaining at this point and continue the last few paragraphs remaining in the following post, thank you for your patience and interest, ptv]

Here's a copy of Bernie Sanders' natal chart


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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Pete Buttigieg's natal chart has every planet and luminary in the second, third fourth, fifth and sixth House. His Asc. is at 08* Virgo 43' 29" , the 2nd House cusp at 02* Libra 30', 3rd House cusp at 01* Scorpio 24", I.C. at 04* Sagittarius 49' 44", 5th House cusp at 09* Cap 29', and his 6th House cusp at 11* Aquar. 14'. His natal Mars is in the 2nd House at 13* Libra 55', Pallas in the 2nd at 19* Libra 45', Saturn in the 2nd House at 22* Libra 06' 15" [the same as me, mine's at 22* Libra 17'] Pluto in the 2nd House at 26* Libra 54'. Jupiter in the 3rd House at 08* Scorpio 27', Ceres in the 3rd House at 15* Scorpio 24', and the Moon in the 3rd at 03* Sag 27 and conj. Uranus in the 3rd at 03 Sag. 35'. He has Lilith Juno Neptune and Vesta in the 4th House, Neptune at 25* Sag. 49', Lilith in the 14th deg., Juno in the 21st and Vesta in the 28th degree of Sag. He has the S. Node, Sun Venus and his natal Vertex all in his 5th House, S Node in the 23rd of Capricorn, and which will be conjunct Jupiter, Saturn and Pluto at the time of the election and those aspects are real crowd killers as far as popularity goes... and quite to the extreme as for Jupiter and Saturn, his Sun at 29* Sag. 11', and Vertex at )9* Aquar. 09'. Lastly His natal Mercury is in his 6th House at 17* Aquar. 44' , and thus barely within the 6th House at all. Only Chiron in the 9th House at 17* Taurus 55' is above the charts' horizon...and you know what is said about people with such a chart as that?...Well, i suppose that most of you do, anyhow, those that don't can look that up for themselves. BUT HERE'S THE REAL OMG YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS CAPPER OF IT ALL... Peter's Part of Fortune is at 12* Cancer 29' 19" and His Part of Catastrophe is at 12* Cancer 37' 42"...that is to say...in case you didn't "get that"... it's that His Part of Fortune and His Part of Catastrophe are in the exact same Sign and degree.

I've never seen that before and I can't honestly say what to make of it.... but... I have this strong feeling that it ain't all that good for someone you'd want in the Oval office...while the topping with nuts a cherry and sprinkles on that is that the natal position of the USA's Sun is at 12* Cancer 38' 28" and the Sabian Symbol involved is about [Rudhyar's Keynote summation [ibid.] "The Power of The Will In Shaping Character" [indicative of why we Yanks are of, as a whole, such strong character. I mean our frontiersmen and women, pioneering, pilgriming, sod-busting, tame the wild frontier, ancestors seemingly thrived on it. To add even more miserable woe to that mess is that the natal I.C. of the U.S.A. is at 11* Cancer 44' 18" and by the natal position that means His Part of Catastrophe, while in the succedent degree, is none the less conjunct by less than a one degree orb. As the I.C. of our nations chart is the "HOW" of our mundane affairs as a nation and the "WHY" of our societys' spiritual evolution [see my thread from 2012 on the Birth Chart of the USA in the mundane sub-forum to find out what the symbolism of our nations chart axis is and why it is so spot on as to what this nation was seen as in the beginning...and continues to be as so presently [although it sure has, for some time now, been taking some 'shots" and 'blows" by adverse interests that would like it to be otherwise than what it began as and struggles to remain as. I've already mentioned the USA's Part of Fortune in this Post as for it being also the Sign and degree of Bernie Sanders' Asc. and I believe most anyone can easily see that the Sabian Symbol for the USA's Part of Fortune couldn't be more literally true as to how this nation did come about producing the most fortuitous circumstances, outcomes, as to becoming the superpower it presently is...much to the misery of its indigenous peoples, but that stuff about "manifest destiny" apparently must have some truth to it. [I do have some native American ancestry, myself, so please don't accuse me of being insensitive here. I'm just trying to be as much as a realist as I should be in effort to stay objective as to the subject matter at hand]

What Pete Buttigieg does have going for him ...that is as to the amount of study I've given his natal chart which is also equivalent to that I have, so far, given Bernie Sanders' chart presently at this time... is that His Part of Hidden Identity/Oration/Influence is at 27* Cancer 25' 02" and while the USA"s natal Mercury was at 24* Cancer 30' 36" by adjustment for the Sidereal precession that will have occurred from July 4, 1776 to November 3rd, 2020 that point of conjunction will be at 27* Cancer 55' 42" [Meaning that it is presently at 27* Cancer 55' 01" presently] and that is likely why He has gotten a lot of people to listen to His campaign rhetoric and find it appealing to them.
I'd also like to point out that Pete is highly acclaimed and achieved scholar, a graduate of Harvard whom won a Rhodes Scholarship and did post graduate studies at Oxford.

Peter [the following is from wikipedia, Quote} was valedictorian of his senior class at St. Joseph High School in South Bend. That year, he won first prize in the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum's Profiles in Courage essay contest. He traveled to Boston to accept the award and met Caroline Kennedy and other members of President Kennedy's family. The subject of his winning essay was the integrity and political courage of then U.S. representative Bernie Sanders of Vermont, one of only two independent politicians in Congress." [Unquote] I would like to point out that Pete's natal chart Asc. is at 08* Virgo 43' 29", that is to say his Horizon line are of the same Sign and degree as Bernie Sander's Meridian line, Bernie's M.C. being at 08* Virgo 27' 24" and thus sharing the same Sabian Symbol as for Pete's "WHO" and Bernie's "WHY", in interpretation regarding his spiritual evolution in his present incarnation, it becomes easy to understand why Pete chose to write in admiration of the Vermont Senator..although at present He's quite on the attack. If and when Peter does withdraw from the race I would more than suspect that He'll pledge his support to Bernie Sanders'.

As for Mike Bloomberg at this time, I want to say that I didn't know anything of the man but didn't think much of Him until I saw his natal chart a couple of nights ago... it is impressive as to what I've seen so far. The chart is illustrative of a man that believes in self motivation and achievement. I doubt that He will be any sort of a friend of a "welfare state" or any sort of program that is socialistic so far that it helps those that don't try to help themselves to begin with...or in other words, definitely not a believer in a "free lunch". He could likely be a Democrat candidate that will attract a lot of Republican voters and could be a real threat to Trump come November...but He isn't someone experienced in politics and we are all witnessing what that amounts to presently...yet it does depend on the person, doesn't it?
I guess that we'll see as we get further into the analysis of His natal chart.

So, until I do get back to this thread with more postings...which hopefully will be before the end of tomorrow, I wish you all well and urge all my fellow Yanks to please get out there and vote in both the primaries and the November election this year. It's all about the numbers.
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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

I think its important to point out that your chart for Senator Sanders is based on a recitification. Not everyone is a fan of rectified charts, in particular me. Therefore, I'd not pay any heed at all to the Arabic Lots or various Parts mentioned for Bernie Sanders.


I do think the Scorpio Rising, is okay, but as I've learned over the years, seldom is a rectified chart the correct time of birth when its finally known.



We should also with the upcoming 2020 Elections, be wary of confirmation bias, i.e. trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Its a frailty most astrologers fall into. I suggest, its only being human to do so.




Thanks for the Parts on DJT however, those of course, I'll consider.
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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Unfortunately for us, both Mayor Pete and Senator Bernie Sanders have official natal charts rated "X" meaning, not known or verified times of birth


https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Buttigieg,_Pete


https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sanders,_Bernie




Others with KNOWN time of birth:
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bloomberg,_Mike


https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Klobuchar,_Amy



However, we could with some degree of confidence, depend on Joe Biden's natal chart for the lots as it's rated "A" which suggests, its evidential through memory- although we'd prefer to see the actual birth certificate or notice of birth as with President Barack Obama.

Source Notes

Marion March quotes Celeste Longacre from him in, "Welcome to the Planet Earth," 4/1987



https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Biden,_Joe

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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

As I wrote above, I don't like the fact that astrodienst has gotten possession of astrotheme's vast databank of birth info and that they apparently have done away with astrotheme's old practice of rating the accuracy of birth information and giving citation as to from where it came.

It seems that I may have erred a bit as to the last statement. I did find ref. to the source of Bernie's birth info and it is a link to a web-ssite known as astro-charts.com, which is a new one on me. .. I've never heard of it before today. The source that astro-charts cites is, [Quote] BIRTHTIME CREDIT: From a user who worked for Bernie Sanders in early races in Burlington, Vermont. / Accuracy: unknown" [Unquote]

As it is given in other than on the hour, quarter hourr, or half hour and not even in any five or ten minute interval of an hour, that is given as 12:27 ...that's seems to be a figure someone was very sure of. Someone that worked for Bernie in the early years likely was someone that was actually often in the presence of the man and may even be someone that is a close friend or trusted neighbor ...and if that person is also into the study of astrology, then it would have been an easy assumption that they probably asked Bernie for the info first hand and that Bernie knew them well enough to not even hesitate giving it to them.
When I worked in Los Angeles with my brother, during the time period I mentioned above...that is to say during that 9 month stay with him during which we both worked for the same building contractor as painters, we worked a a few homes of "Hollywood" celebs. We we involved in the process of the finish painting on remodel projects and one job had 46 different interior colours being used. Gradient shading on doorjams...or in other words, painted to loo like a rainbow... as the house, a miniature version of the White House...that type of colonial styl, had been undergoing a remodeling process that had taken four years at the time the interior finish painting commenced. So, my brother and I were in the house constantly, everyday, five days a week, for a couple of months. The owner was living in the maid quarters at the time but we saw him everyday...and after a few weeks the owner became very relaxed around us and we even had some chats about things most personal.
That "owner" was Richard Simmons. aka "The Weight Saint", star of a number of soap operas, and I asked him for his birth info one day...and..no problem..gave it to me without blinking an eye.

AS I derive more astrological Parts from this alleged chart of Bernie's I'll eventually be able to tell if the time is inaccurate. ...so far, I'd say it's looking pretty good. The Sabians are quite fitting as to what they are representing and as to whom.

I've said it many a time... and I'll never tire of having to say it again... "The Sabian Symbols are the ultimate tool of rectification."


I didn't get a chance to do any more writing today, this past day, rather...as it is now 1:30 A.M. here in California... and as the New Hampshire primary is beginning in just a few hours [as it is 4:30 A.M. in N.H., right now] I don't see any need to rush as the next primary to be held will be on March 3rd...in fact 13 States will hold their primary election on that date...

So, I think I'll take my time with any further postings...maybe do a thorough analysis of this "questionable" natal chart given for Bernie... and if necessary I can always rely on the talents of my good friend, the clairvoyant, Clarisse Conner...she did a marvelous job of getting me the right information pertaining to Hilary Clinton's birth time some years ago.
If anything changes I will surely let the forum know asap..but I feel rather confident in it presently...so far, that is.
Here's he link as to where the info for Bernie's brth data is sourced from: https://astro-charts.com/persons/chart/bernie-sanders/
.
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Smile Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Does Bernie have any chance of beating Trump in the swing-States that will determine the next President?
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Smile Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

If any Democratic candidate is certain that he or she has no chance of beating Trump in the Electoral College swing-State vote, then he or she is working to get Trump re-elected by attempting to become the Democratic Presidential nominee.
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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Does Bernie have any chance of beating Trump in the swing-States that will determine the next President?

It sounds like the same question when trump ran against HRC. "No" we said, to Europeans and Egyptians (because we were in Egypt then), Donald Trump doesn't stand a chance!



Now its history!


For Piercethevale: Thanks for the explanation of the tob for Sanders, but I still don't trust any rectifications. Probably because of so much earth in my chart, lol.


As for Astrodiesnt and their rating system? They actually purchased it from Lois Rodden who started the entire rating system back in the late 68s era early 70s: It likely was and contniues to be under copyright.


Quote:
Rodden was best known for avidly collecting exact data of births and times of public figures and celebrities.[17] Lois Rodden applied her rating system to all the older US data she had collected. This came from astrological organizations – like The Church of Light – data collections – like Sabian Symbols– and the astrological magazines that were very popular during the 1930s and 1940s. It was a huge task. She collected thousands of data over many years that revealed just how undisciplined the astrological community was in the first half of the 20th-century


She emphasised the importance of calculating charts using time zones, time signatures, longitudes and latitude, deploring the tendency of many astrologers to use inaccurate or non-sourced information as an easy alternative to proper research.
Rodden had high standards - she believed in a kind of public responsibility for the astrologer to choose "clean " (accurate) data over the flawed type ("dirty"). She constantly lobbied publishers, editors and fellow astrologers to make them aware of her concerns. Over 40 years she amassed tens of thousands of data, both private and public, and called her business Astro-Databank.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lois_Rodden
Rodden rating system

RATING AA (Birth Certificate verified) A B C DD X The other letters are either : From Friend or From Biography - Caution - Dirty Data = Date without time

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Smile Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Those who said Trump had "no chance" weren't factoring in the Electoral College. Hillary DID win the Popular vote by a very substantial margin.

Now, we're sadder but wiser. The "Swing-States" are the only ones that matter in electing the President. The rest are pretty much a foregone conclusion.
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Smile Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Florida are must-wins for the Dems. Arizona is a possibility. Trump took all of them, and "flipped" the first 3, which had been considered blue States. The Russians understood how our electoral system works, and relentlessly targeted them with vicious anti-Hillary memes and phone calls, along with the highly effective use of Facebook, posing as American citizens.

Another problem: Many Republican leaders were virulently anti-Trump UNTIL he became their Nominee, after which they united behind him. The Democratic leaders, in contrast, continued feuding. Even Obama's support for Hillary was lukewarm at best. Bernie continued the contention that he was "robbed" by DNC support for her, and that she wasn't really the "legitimate" candidate.
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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Republicans in the U.S. Senate blocked three bills that would help with election security on Tuesday. Meanwhile, Louisiana Parishes have been hit with infected software.



https://www.rawstory.com/2020/02/the..._notifications


Apparently, they know they MUST cheat come hell or high water to pull it off again!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leomoon View Post
Republicans in the U.S. Senate blocked three bills that would help with election security on Tuesday. Meanwhile, Louisiana Parishes have been hit with infected software.



https://www.rawstory.com/2020/02/the..._notifications


Apparently, they know they MUST cheat come hell or high water to pull it off again!
They WILL cheat, and that has to be considered as well. Even the Russian interference hasn't been properly eliminated.

it appears that the billionaire status of Trump was important, in which case billionaire Michael Bloomberg, an Aquarian Sun with business acumen, might be the way to go.
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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by leomoon View Post
Republicans in the U.S. Senate blocked three bills that would help with election security on Tuesday. Meanwhile, Louisiana Parishes have been hit with infected software.



https://www.rawstory.com/2020/02/the..._notifications


Apparently, they know they MUST cheat come hell or high water to pull it off again!
That article is highly partisan and misses the big picture. Here is one with a more balanced view:

https://thefulcrum.us/congress/election-security-bills

Senate blocks election security bills pushed with Trump in mind

Senate Republicans are continuing their total blockade of proposals for combatting foreign interference in American campaigns, signaling they won't be moved by a new Democratic effort to use President Trump's impeachment to shame them into action.

Democrats on Tuesday afternoon called up three of their top-priority election security bills they view as the least controversial, asking the Senate to pass them immediately on voice votes. Each time they were blocked by a single Republican, who under the rules could prevent further action.

The choreographed standoff underscores how the politically divided Congress is on course to do nothing more before Election Day to address perhaps the single the most pressing challenge to democracy: foreign adversaries armed with disinformation campaigns and hacking skills wresting control of a presidential contest away from the voters.

Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee, Minority Leader Mitch McConnell's designated agent for repelling efforts like this, revisited the GOP's policy rationale for opposing all election security policy bills: They start the federal government down a slippery slope toward federalizing elections that are conducted almost entirely by local and state governments.

On Tuesday, Blackburn asserted the Democrats were renewing their campaign for additional legislation only to boost their campaign fundraising, and she said if her partisan opponents as truly interested in assuring the sanctity of elections they would be focused instead on opening a congressional inquiry into last week's chaotic Iowa caucuses.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The conservatives are not about cheating . That is what the Dems plan to do.

They want illegals to be allowed to vote. In fact, many of them do vote already, illegally. I don't see any Democrats worried about that.
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Smile Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Katydid, you're a good example of a fair-minded Trump supporter. Which Democratic candidate would you LEAST want to run against him?

Also, what about Bloomberg?
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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Bloomberg wins Dixville Notch pop. 5: "First in Nation" primary



https://www.rawstory.com/2020/02/mik...ation-primary/


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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Nov. 4th 2020 - Tr Jupiter Trine the Sun
Democratic party natal:




Republican party natal - on Nov.4th, 2020:




Tr Jupiter cj. n.Jupiter - Tr Saturn cj. Pallas Tr Vesta (also the higher law) cj. Veritas

appears as though there will be a legal challenge in this race?

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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

For Sen. Bernie Sanders "bedwetters" Get a Grip! :


https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...-against-trump

Quote:
Having a message allows candidates to stay on offense, pivot to a safe harbor in stormy times, and ignore Trump when he tries to attack or distract. Bernie can get cranky, but it’s hard to see Trump throwing him off message in debate. I wrote last year about how voters are willing to look past certain flaws and weaknesses as long as a candidate has a strong point of view. Remember the maxim about George W. Bush during his 2004 reelection bid: You might not like him, but at least you know where he stands. The same might be said for Sanders in a race against Trump, who lies every day. Trust is a valuable currency in politics, and Sanders has plenty of it to spend.


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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Katydid, you're a good example of a fair-minded Trump supporter. Which Democratic candidate would you LEAST want to run against him?

Also, what about Bloomberg?
I am not a Trump supporter...But I am Anti-Leftist, Anti-Socialist, Anti-Marxist

Bloomberg is a moron, in my opinion. Wait for the blowback from the recently released tapes from him...
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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
I am not a Trump supporter...But I am Anti-Leftist, Anti-Socialist, Anti-Marxist

Bloomberg is a moron, in my opinion. Wait for the blowback from the recently released tapes from him...

So is a military friend of my husband's. But apparently he doesn't realize his 3 Pension checks (2 from the Military, 1 from the Post Office) are all Socialist programs therefore, he is participating all these years without even realizing it, lol.


Some Socialist programs in the United States:


U.S. Military
U.S. Postal Service
FEMA
FCC
FAA,
Fire Departments,
Public Highway system,
Public Schools

Public Parks
City zoos
Museums



https://www.michaeloart.com/the-best...ave-america-2/


Medicare, Social Security
Center for Disease Control

MWP (Major Work Projects)
Public Education

non-profit Trash Collection
FICA Insurance
FIDC -

Veterans Administration

EPA (Environmental Protection Agency)





on and on and on........

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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

more democratic socialist systems in place already include: *click image to enlarge...





and:


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Unread 02-12-2020, 03:33 AM
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Smile Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Biden's the most "normal" of the group, if that's appealing to the Swing-States. Jill would make a great First Lady. Bernie and Bloomberg aren't married, and regarding the others, there hasn't been a "First Dude" yet.

Biden's more normal than Trump, isn't saddled with the "Socialist" label Bernie chose for himself, and is a Catholic, which is an asset in some ways. The Trump campaign appears to fear his candidacy, which is telling.

Last edited by david starling; 02-12-2020 at 03:41 AM.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 03:45 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

If you live in California, it's a given that all the Electoral votes will go to the Democratic candidate. So, you can't vote for Trump in a meaningful way, except to somewhat lessen the Popular vote disparity.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 03:51 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Just googling around, there ARE some who claim Sanders CAN beat Trump in the Swing-States.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 04:48 AM
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Dirius Dirius is offline
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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by leomoon View Post
So is a military friend of my husband's. But apparently he doesn't realize his 3 Pension checks (2 from the Military, 1 from the Post Office) are all Socialist programs therefore, he is participating all these years without even realizing it, lol.

Some Socialist programs in the United States:

U.S. Military
U.S. Postal Service
FEMA
FCC
FAA,
Fire Departments,
Public Highway system,
Public Schools

Public Parks
City zoos
Museums

https://www.michaeloart.com/the-best...ave-america-2/

Medicare, Social Security
Center for Disease Control
MWP (Major Work Projects)
Public Education
non-profit Trash Collection
FICA Insurance
FIDC -
Veterans Administration
....
Sorry to burst your michael moore bubble but a large majority of those services which you have mentioned are not "socialist" programs.

Socialism is when the government collectively owns the means of production of a particular good that is exchanged among citizens according to the needs of the market under the pretext that goverment is more suited to run certain things which could be run privately.

The armed forces, or security forces, or firefighters, etc. are not goods that compete in a market, in fact competition among them would be detrimental, but rather they are services that exist to prevent emergencies. Thus they are better delegated to the state.

The state does have a role in providing some services which wouldn't work in a competitive market: the monopoly over violence and courts of law would be goo exampples, which are aspects of society that do not function under the premise of a market (for example judges don't compete with each other to provide better services). Doesn't mean everything should be owned by the state or regulated by it. But being a government service doesn't automatically make it "socialism".

In fact it is a good thing you mentioned the U.S. postal service because it is a great example of the failure of implementing goverment run programs in comparison to privately owned enterprises. For example Fedex and UPS, provide much more quality service than the U.S. postal service, which is one of the reasons why that particular service is in decline.

Pensions are also another good example of a failed system and the biggest scam of the 20th century. Somehow working your entire life and donating part of your salary, only to receive a meager amount of money back when you are elder might seem good for you, but in reality you are loosing around two thirds of the money you've generated.
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Last edited by Dirius; 02-12-2020 at 05:01 AM.
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Unread 02-12-2020, 04:49 AM
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Re: USA Nov. 2020 Presidential Election, the Democrat Party Contenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by leomoon View Post
Nov. 4th 2020 - Tr Jupiter Trine the Sun
Democratic party natal:




Republican party natal - on Nov.4th, 2020:




Tr Jupiter cj. n.Jupiter - Tr Saturn cj. Pallas Tr Vesta (also the higher law) cj. Veritas

appears as though there will be a legal challenge in this race?
I'd never seen, nor even considered looking at, natal charts for the two political parties... until this evening..and only because you made it so convenient.
At first I got a bit wide-eyed as to the chart axis for both charts and then realized these charts are "Sun Charts", that is to say cast for noon on that day the Parties were known to have been founded.
The Asc. for the Democratic Partys' natal chart is the 30th of Leo and so is Donald Trump's Asc. ...and has quite the Sabian Symbol, [ibid.] "AN UNSEALED LETTER", which goes to explain a lot as to why Trump seems to never run out of something to say [it also happens to be the location of my Part of Astrology and goes to illustrate why I freely share all my findings and have never charged a dime for any astrological consultation I have given anyone at their request.]
The I.C. for the Republican natal chart is in the 28th degree of Capricorn and the natal placement of the USA's Pluto is in the 28th degree of Capricorn..although the Republican Part was founded about 73 years after the birth of the nation, so a tad more than one degree should be added to all USA natal positions as so to make rectification for the Sidereal precession that transpired in that time. While the Democratic Part was founded in May of 1792 which was 15 years and 10 months after and so 0* 13' 17" needs to be added to the USA natal positions for synastry comparisons.

Here's a list of what I could find of significant relevance without adjusting for the Sidereal precession...so it will be mostly about the Sabian Symbols being shared as for the Republican Party natal chart in synastry with that of the U.S.A.,,, and for the Democrats', 13 minutes of a degree difference isn't anything to fret about.

The Republican Partys' natal chart:
The Moon at 25* Scorpio 40' 20" is conjunct the USA's natal Part of Fortune at 25* Scorpio 40' 42"[and Bernie Sanders natal Asc., if that is reliable birth data for Bernie?]
Pluto at 03* Taurus 35' 55" is conjunct the Part of Surprise [aka Part of Homosexuality..which I have serious doubts that it is] at 03* Taurus 29' 41" and also conjunct the Part of Play 03* Taurus 50' 01"
Mars at 28* Virgo 40' 52" is conjunct the USA's natal Part of Faith/Trust at 29* Cap 10' 32"
Chiron at 18* Cap 53' 23" is conjunct with the USA's natal Part of Father aka Part of Advancement at 19* Cap 10' 57"

The Democrat Partys' natal chart:
Mercury at 26* Taurus 02' 10" is conjunct the USA's natal Part of Individuality, which I rather recently came up with the alternative title, the Part of Surety, as for the reason that the formula by which is used to derive this Part is the opposite of that for the Part of Catastrophe, anyways that USA Part is at 25* Taurus 14' 55", so the conjunction is one by orb of less than one degree.
Here's a dusey, Saturn at 25* Aries 55' 33" is conjunct the USA's natal Part of Innocence, aka Part of Naivete, aka Part of Lawsuits, which is at 25* Aries 06' 55"
The South Node at 02* Aries 13' 17" is conjunct the USA's natal Part of Influence/Magnetism, or at least that is what it has been labeled as to date. It is found by Asc. + Pluto - Moon, and I've never gotten around to doing any research on the Part...so, who knows what it truly is as I doubt that it is about "Influence" or "Magnetism" as for the Moon being the "Trigger" to the Significator, which is Pluto...sounds like the emotional being triggering transformation and possibly death...?
For some reason I'm getting a mental image of a menopausal woman with a 44 magnum in her hands... not good, not good at all.
The S. Node is also conjunct the USA's natal Part of Benevolence at 02* Aries 45' 15"
Now here's something I think is special. Mars at 17* Virgo 55' 33" conjunct the USA's natal Part of Soul/Spirit at 17* Virgo 18' 24".
...and lastly, one that I find to be a bit troubling to my mind...Uranus at 15* Leo 04' 11" conjunct the USA's natal Part of Army/Police, aka Part of Surgery [but for a mundane chart I would rather have to think it'll be about the former] at 15* Leo 23' 23"

i WILL ADD ANOTHER OBSERVATION IN ANALYSIS AT THIS TIME AS TO PETE BUTTIGIEG'S NATAL CHART AND HOW IT WILL BE AFFECTED BY TRANSITS THIS COMING NOVEMBER.

Where as Donald Trump has those transiting Nodes perfectly jibing with his own natal Nodes, Pete, on the other hand, will have some serious Nodal problems.
Pete's natal S. Node is at 22* Cap 27' 11" and on election day, November 3rd, of this year [at 8:00 A.M. EST] Jupiter will be at 21* Cap 24' 21", Saturn will be at 26* Capricorn 21' 23", and Pluto, whoo-boy PLUTO will be at 22* Cap 42' 28"
The Jupiter aspect is about differences with current cultural trends. The Saturn affect usually leads to one becoming for the duration, or at least being perceived in that manner, anti-social and even reclusive. With all his planets in the Northern Hemisphere of his natal chart...that's sort of what He already is.
The Pluto aspect causes rejection, or to look down upon, traditional cultural standards and mores of society.
Jupiter is in conjunction aspect all the remainder of this year. Saturn is in aspect currently but moves off around March 4th but it comes back in conjunct aspect in retrograde July 24th, then goes direct again on September 29th, at 25* Cap 20' and doesn't go beyond six degrees until December 1st...but OMG PLUTO, Pluto goes direct on October 4th at 22* Cap 29", which is about as conjunct as a thing can get.
Pete picked the wrong time to run for the Oval office and it may even do long term damage to his political career. If I was in a position to give Him advice, I'd tell him to drop out right now and don't look back. ...besides, He's too dang young to be taken seriously for the Oval office as of yet...maybe in about another 16 years... but I probably wouldn't vote for him then either...as for the reason ... uhhhh....
There's a lot of reasons, period.
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