Method of Applying 13 Sign Zodiac

A few words about the Kabbalah:

In Hellenistic times, the Greeks developed the Kybaleio, an internal system of self-knowledge and self-development. The Kybaleio, from which Jewish borrowed elements to create later the Kabbalah, is one of the few hermetic texts saved from the fire in the library of Alexandria and is one of the main expressions of traditional wisdom of the ancient mysteries. Those quotes from Kybaleio rescued from the persecution of Emperor Dioklitianous on the 3rd AD century, came to us from the traditions that were kept by the Neo-Platonic philosophers of Alexandria and Pergamos. The Kybaleio contains the principles of early Universe, namely the Seven Laws of Wisdom. Tradition says that Kybaleio transmitted to humans through the truth of revelation, from the god Hermes Trismegistus.

Through astrology we can get in contact with the first three laws of Kybaleion:
1) to understand that the universe is a living organism that all parts are interrelated,
2) to understand that the same laws apply to all levels of man, the stars, the whole of creation,
3) to realize that everything in the world undergo a dynamic evolution, as all vibrate, flow and mutate.

(From the Article of Eugenia Papala "Astrology in Ancient Greece")

vasilis said:

I agree that Physics is good science. I also agree that metaphysics is a very nice hobby. What I'm trying to do is within the Hellenistic astrological School who flourished in the 2nd AD century and gave Horoscopic Astrology, to continue that ancient tradition.
All data of Horoscopic Astrology of Claudius Ptolemy are based on the science of Astronomy of the time and the astronomical data of the last 500 years (of that epoch).
The Vedic Horoscopic Astrology developed after the transfer of Astrology in the depths of Asia by the soldiers of Alexander the Great. As the saying wikipedia entry on Vedic Astrology:

" The first evidence of the introduction of Greek astrology to India is the Yavanajataka which dates to the early centuries CE.[13] The Yavanajataka ("Sayings of the Greeks") was translated from Greek to Sanskrit by Yavanesvara during the 2nd century CE, under the patronage of the Western Satrap Saka king Rudradaman I, and is considered the first Indian astrological treatise in the Sanskrit language.[14] However the only version that survives is the later verse version of Sphujidhvaja which dates to AD 270.[15]"

Returning to the Hellenistic Astrological school and how this was expressed by Claudius Ptolemy I have to add the following: The Hellenistic Astrological School reached the level we knew from the book "Terabiblos" of Claudius Ptolemy having incorporated the ideas of the great Greek philosophers of the sixth and 5th century . BC and especially:
1. Pythagoras who was the first who felt that the numbers can describe the world (fundamental idea of astrology)
2. Plato, the influence of whom in astrology is also tremendous since he consolidated the belief that the universe can be described through ideas and every idea can be identified by a specific numerical value, like the Pythagorean arithmosofia.

Other ancient Greek philosophers that we will see in a next post have enormously influenced the structure of Astrology.

One crucial point derived from the ancient knowledge is that when a new idea or discovery was made, it was immediately incorporated in Astrology. Here comes my new theory which is trying to cover all these centuries gap.

(to be continued)

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Sanskrit is far older than that amico. The internet is fathomless for the depth and quantity of mis-information and dis-information that it already presently contains. The tongue is quite a bit more ancient than given credit for in wiki. Vedic is the even older root 'mother tongue' and are the Vedas are many thousands of years old...tens of thousands to be more exact. Edgar Cayce mentions that the time of Yeshua/Jesus ben David was some 180,000 years after the time of the avatar known as Ram in India. The Ramayama mentions the assistance of Hanuman and the simian army he provided that built a land bridge to the isle of known more recently as Ceylon...isn't it interesting that only in the last few years by the most modern and up to date state of the art satellite photography that from that altitude with the right conditions and proper lens and filter that an ancient land bridge can be discerned submerged and from the southern tip of the India sub continent to that isle...and looking very much an 'un-natural formation'?
The Vedas talk of ancient wars in which nuclear weapons were used, 'Brahmas' Arrows' I believe I remember them being called...that exploded with the brilliance and fury of a thousand suns. Sri Yukteswar mentions Atomic Structure in his dissertation, "The Holy Science", published in around 1890...as I gave my copy to a Sikh friend a few years ago, I don't recall the exact date of publication...suffice it to say it was a good many years before Atomic structure was identified by Occidental science.
As to the subject of math and utilizing numbers...I assume you mean those what are called, 'Arabic Numbers"...i.e. those that the Arabs learned and 'borrowed' from the Vedic civilization...India? [getting their cultural name associated with the concept...not unlike those calculated points of influence in the Zodiac titled 'Arabic Parts'?
It was lucky for the future of knowledge for the Occidental world that Alexander the [not so] Great was halted when it did. His first order of official business ordered after the conquest of each and any civilization/people/nation was "Abolish the Sun Cults and prohibit all Sun rites", punishable by death...and not a quick and a perfunctory one but rather the kind of death that warrants serious weighing of alternatives.
You do realize that Sanskrit is the mother of all tongues of the Caucasian race according to many, [I believe most] Philologists? Except for the Tallic languages, such as Finnish and Estonian...and the language that the Basque speak..but then the Basque are not descended from the Caucasus. And if Vedic is the mother of that tongue then it stands to reason all this history and knowledge is really the root history and knowledge of the Caucasian race.
The Judeo religion developed from that known as the aton in ancient Egypt. Freud wrote his finest literary achievement, IMHO...of course... with his essay-like book, "Moses and Monotheism". [I thought "Totem and Taboo" a pretty good effort also.] btw I was born on the same day of may as Sigmund and the same part of the day...meaning to say I also have a Scorpio ascendant but even more pronounced as to chart alignment and stress emphasis...[translation: In a Grand Cross configuration created by Sun conj. Desc. Moon conj. Nadir and Pluto conj. M.C....translation: "As to mastering the understanding of the uniqueness of the fixed signs and their potential as a cohesive combination and understanding Sigmund Freud too...[which is one of the 'A-B-C's of integrative astrology , r.e. 'Non-fatalistic Astrology'] I've "GOT IT GOING ON'...in fact I believe i'm better at understanding sexuality than poor Sigmund, he was rather a bit handicapped as because of the time and location he lived in and I've just got a more potent natal horoscope, period.
I trust you are also aware that not all Vedic knowledge is kept and passed on in written form. I am privileged to have been, still am, to be a recipient of the teachings of the 'Guruampara' of the greatest known [sufficiently conceived of] antiquity. The knowledge that can never become violated as for the manner, the people and the way it is kept and transferred from teacher to disciple/student....guru to chela...for thousands of years.
I can quote from a time more distant than you can imagine... I can remember things older than the accumulative past years in total of the, three or four B.C.E. so called, ancient 'Civilizations' you idolize.
That 'Gap' you mention is what is called the 'Kali Yuga' in Vedic science. It's much more than a 'Gap'...it's an near unfathomable abyss at the edge of a cliff where all contact with past culture and knowledge is near potentially, if it was not grievously and completely, lost.
in the present Great Cycle of Yugas, we have been a bit fortunate.
Unfortunately the 'Great Antagonist', as some will identify, if not as an entity then, as a most insidious and determined agenda, has done much to to obliterate and or corrupt as much of all that as was possible.
The most common and favored method is that of reversing or turning upside down a 'Rite', or Mantra, incantation, prayer. The same as for information as to what can be subverted in that fashion. Even our maps, our view and understanding of our own world and the Cosmos.
Do you ever think about the fact that all the 'Fixed Stars' and 'designated astro-affects' are in the Northern hemisphere for the most part? Have you ever considered that the 'Southern Cross' is a rather conspicuous constellation...most noticiable without any pre suggestion or knowledge of existence of to a first time observer of the Southern Skies...ever wonder if it may have been placed their as a sign to remind Humankind...of something?
That's because what is considered 'Down Under' presently was always [for the most part of Humankinds history that is....particularly the era of 'superior intelligence and knowledge...aka the 'Satya Yuga'...w was the 'Up Over'...This time around they not only reversed the main frame of understanding Astrological Knowledge but flipped it over as well.
The Seven Aeons of mention that our 'North Pole" points to in successive ages in progression are not the 'Good Guardians' that some have interpreted them to be...that some claim their is written evidence of antiquity to substantiate but rather 'AEons' in the denigrative meaning of that word as known to the Manicheans, the Gnostics, the Zorastrians, the Magi.
You have much to learn and a lot more to 'un-learn'....

It wasn't enough that you embarrassed yourself by alluding to be an expert on Vedic/Sanskrit history?
Certainly you can top that by assaulting the truth of the Kabbalah. But your choice being the Greeks as a platform?
I don't have too much faith in what they knew of history..although a few did know of the 'legend' of atlantis and took it serious. I respect that.
I don't like to have to quote of refer to Edgar Cayce when dealing with so called 'Champions of Modern Science and Historiography' , such as you seem to be.
It is too easy to retort with [and annoyingly cliche to me after some 50 years of studying the paranormal, and the readings of Edgar Cayce most avidly, to have to hear...] the cry of the 'Bull Evolutionists'...the 'Sons of Primordial Ooze' ..those believing to be descended from the same....that Clairvoyance is 'Hokum'. [Yet, with endeavors like the U.S. Military and Intelligence communities involvement in projects such as 'Remote Viewing', or any of the number of alleged 'Gov't Projects' in such or similar areas and for which is evidence growing in ever increasing amount as to support factually.]
Cayce repeatedly mentioned, and gave cause for, the reason that Atlantis was the most advanced of civilizations from the beginning of it's people, the 'Red Race'. which was some 200,000 plus years ago [I don't have his data handy...it is in the given what Cayce described in the ARE publication/book "The Origin and Destiny of Man' compiled from the Edgar Cayce readings...and a really fascinating read it is. Especially so, when combined with other sources of legitimate truth or honest and forthright conjectural supposition, such as Freud's aforementioned book on monotheism.] ...and that the Aton religion came to Egypt from the survivors of the last of those lands to have sunk beneath the Atlantic around some 12,000 years ago.
This is the very same Aton religion that Freud identifies as the most part of which that is, known presently as that, of the Hebrew or Jewish religion/faith. [yet far, far older and somewhat redefined or re-interpretatively presented, or one might say through redesigned or revisionist 'Parabolic Allegory', explained and understood more 'inclusively', as to conductive means of co-existent necessity pertaining to a most spiritually orientated, obligated and identifiable as Spiritual mutual equality and and particularly that equality of mutual spiritual [and cultural, racial..etc.] respectfulness towards the other civilizations, races, nations on the planet. Five originally; as there were that many distinct and separate races of Humankind right from the beginning. Five Adams and Five Eves, if I may use the names of the two entities that were the genetic archetypal parentage of the 'Red Race'. The people and culture that was the source of the information of that book of the Torah, or to a Gentile the Old Testament, known as 'Genesis', by English translation...and may in fact include the entire 'Torah' or Pentateuch, all five books..but that is of little concern here as to this delusion you've professed, that which is what knowledge I speak of that was known to the ancient Hebrews sourced from some 'Hellenistic' origin...
I would surmise that the only thing they learned from that culture would be a rather peculiar interest any may have developed for somewhat perverse sexual fetishes or fascination for ''Role Playing" and over deviant type diversions/distractions typical from a pagan idolizing civilization/culture [as I am wont to identify by name any of the European cultures/tribes existent at that time or for some considerable amount of time prior or for many centuries afterwards, as "Civilized" .]
There are three repositories of ancient knowledge, identical in their contents and to the letter all as to all account, on this earth according to Edgar Cayce, what I've gotten from the 'Guruampara', and by a few other sources of info, allegedly, that will be discovered and reveled soon. It may not happen before my life has passed here. I do expect that it will come to pass before the next century...but as to when in this century, I pray that it isn't too long that it happens. The question is have any already been found..as Cayce did venture to predict that it may happen just in time for or soon after the advent of the 21st Century...I respect and observe and do wish to reaffirm i do not believe in attempting to ascertain knowledge of the future from such proclivities as clairvoyance. The Bible does admonish against it for good reason. { I don't know if exemption is to be found for otherwise...as I oft wonder why Edgar did allow himself to so be involved in that? } but, the prophecies or pre-eventual proclamations that are circulating around in addition to those are numerous enough and suspect enough of reputable origin that say the three repositories will all be unveiled and reveled, at the same time, in these very times... or near to as to being, as is considered to be, relatively momentary...to contain the same identical information.
That being the truth as to the 'Origins and Destiny' of Humankind as from the 'Beginning'... Hallelujah and Om to that my friend.*

*Please don't take this personal and gives offense..as i often experience from many people that I engage in debate...I am of Quaker upbringing ..and faith , to those of Judeo-Christian orientation or faith of which my family and most of my fraternal and casual acquaintances are. A Quaker calls everyone, 'Friend'. Just as some faiths brethren call some by the name, 'Brother' or 'Sister'....or my acquaintances of belief and observance of a way of life, known as Sanatan Dharm, might call someone Maharaji or Baba. A Sikh would call another 'Singh' or 'Kar'. I've actually had Avowed Evangelistic Christians get threatening over my use of the word as to their selves...quite concernedly too.
Atheists, Agnostics and those that dutifully, whether consciously or not, worship Science or some derivative form there of not withstanding either...I don't find Tom Cruise anymore desirable to meet and talk to than Mel Gibson or Stephen Hawking...although hawking might be interesting as one could be assured of his unlikely probability of becoming physically violent...and I would like to taunt him with some metaphysical scientific observations and I
have made and what derived from those.

ps. I do thank God there aren't too many of your kind. Those of which have acquired 'Mantles of Letters', Assocs.Ss & BAs and Phds and BSs [esp. those] that assume themselves to be a self evident spokesperson, academically certified and there-by established authority of all things of the universe both physical and the abstract, aloof and or at least without any accountability to anything other than peerage of the same academic womb of prostitutionally inclined progeny or to what or whom 'purchased' their testimony by some specie be it that of molecular value or perceived personal worth from associative recognition and deemed to be inherently denoted authoritative legitimacy by 'Celebritive' associations, of who are interested in Astrology, or that take it seriously enough to actually spend time investigating it...that if they did...didn't 'get it'...and as they don't...or especially if they do, but feel some need...some noble calling [or sycophantic obligation...to an agenda or entity of antagonistic design.} to denounce true astrological knowledge, most covetously, both publicly and most viciously...and disturbingly notable, ever again and again as to, enjoyably also.
I'm sorry, I must apologize for having forgotten, and especially as so quickly too..which one are you..again?
















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The Vedic Horoscopic Astrology developed after the transfer of Astrology in the depths of Asia by the soldiers of Alexander the Great. As the saying wikipedia entry on Vedic Astrology:

" The first evidence of the introduction of Greek astrology to India is the Yavanajataka which dates to the early centuries CE.[13] The Yavanajataka ("Sayings of the Greeks") was translated from Greek to Sanskrit by Yavanesvara during the 2nd century CE, under the patronage of the Western Satrap Saka king Rudradaman I, and is considered the first Indian astrological treatise in the Sanskrit language.[14] However the only version that survives is the later verse version of Sphujidhvaja which dates to AD 270.[15]"

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First of all I'm talking about the Vedic Horoscopic Astrology! Which means the use of planets from Indian Astrology. This was introduced by the Greeks.
You filled a few papers of arguments against something I never said. I agree that Vedic/Sankrit history in far more ancient than "Vedic Horoscopic Astrology" that was inspired from the Greeks.

No matter how long pages you are going to write the facts are here described by the Yavanajataka. I don't thing that it so insulting for an ancient culture to borrow elements from another Civilization.

I also agree with you that Jewish Civilization is also ancient.
But the Kabbalah which describes this ancient Civilization in relatively new. It was formed on the 11th century A.D. and as I said it borrowed elements from the Kybaleion (from which the word Kabbalah derives):

In Hellenistic times, the Greeks developed the Kybaleio, an internal system of self-knowledge and self-development. The Kybaleio, from which Jewish borrowed elements to create later the Kabbalah, is one of the few hermetic texts saved from the fire in the library of Alexandria and is one of the main expressions of traditional wisdom of the ancient mysteries.

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In any case thank you for the controversial information about Atlantis...

I have to apologize for the overly verbose responses I posted...I do tend to get like that from the medication I take to deal with my back injuries...I do tend to get caught in tangents of the subject I'm confronting and can get to typing away in almost a 'trance' like mode sometimes...funny thing is , I always hated writing...never set out to be one nor have to do any that wasn't essentially necessary. It's true, ask anyone of my family or that I've known since childhood.
I used to get scolded and or chastised for my lack of attempt or and seemingly little concern.
And I do wish to also apologize, as I went back over what I had written and realized that I had 'tranced' a bit and was projecting something from my past onto yourself...forgetting that you weren't the same person and this wasn't that conversation which I had with that person. I realize now you hadn't said or even inferred a couple things I got rather rankled and went off about.
As I sit too many hours at this computer presently...with all the many different reasons I have found to use if for other than writing on Astrology here, at this forum, I will have a drink or two sometimes when I think I am but a few minutes away from shutting the dang thing off and on a couple/few occasions did end up spending hours more at this screen and ended up the next day having to make a lot of 'edits' to what I wrote, if I wrote anything, or in a case as this, an apology or two for having wrote what I did.
As our 'Illustrious former President Bush, senior, said: ""You cannot be president of the United States if you don't have faith. Remember Lincoln, going to his knees in times of trial and the Civil War and all that stuff. You can't be. And we are blessed. So don't feel sorry for — don't cry for me, Argentina. Message: I care.", speaking to employees of an insurance company during the 1992 New Hampshire primary, I can get to a state almost as 'odd' by the combination of all I have mentioned and being physically tired also..by which I mean, 'In need of sleep'. Such was the case that day.

I meant to add that it does say in the Kabbalist writings I've read [somewhere, as I haven't the ref. on hand.] it is said that the numbers 1 through 10 were the 'prime force' or something to that effect of the structure of creation...cause of it...something like that. There is also explanation of how the Hebraic 'alphabet' is representative of all the building blocks of 'Creation'...in some manner I can't recall offhand. What the Hebrews had as for knowledge that differed from what the Atlantians brought to Egypt some 8500 years prior could be anybodys guess.
[if Cayce is indeed correct as to that matter...and I do believe in Edgar's ability to see the past...as any Clairvoyant of adequate talent and proper conduct should be able to do...as no one, not even them can 'see' any certainty about the future. As I have yet to suspect anything about Mr. Cayces, 'conduct', I believe these accounts of Atlantis and other events and civilizations of antiquity that he had spoke of.]
As the Atlantians were the superior and most advanced civilization through out those ancient times right up until the last remnants of its homeland sinking... and knowing what Cayce said about the 'Red Race' being those that have an 'accentuated sixth sense' [the 'White Race' accentuated 'seeing',,,by which I mean eyesight, the 'Yellow Race' accentuated hearing, the 'Brown Race' an accentuated sense of 'smell'. { The Brown Race, those of the vanished continent of the Pacific ocean region known as 'Lemuria', or 'Oz' and 'Mu' at various times through ancient history}] I rather suspect that at one time...for many thousands of years...that they had all of this knowledge you speak of and then some, possibly all of it still right up to the last of it sinking below the waters of the Atlantic.

As I tried to explain [but got 'tranced' out and went off on tangents.] as I do believe that all the Caucasians were of the Race that produced the Vedas, that the Greeks and the Indians didn't take anything from either....not really, as they all had been of the Vedic origins and of which civilization existed as far back as Atlantis did and which was as advanced, [nearly so, anyways, as the Red Race did have that 'intuitive' edge...as that is what an 'accentuated sixth sense' does provide, and a few other things.] I'm quite sure that all Five Races were near equally advanced and that whatever 'true Astrology' was known and utilized by one Race was known in all five Races and if not it most likely was shared soon after any such revelation that another lacked such.
I also find that each civilization lost different parts of the knowledge from any other civilization/Race and that each has re-invented astrology in various areas and they are all 'tainted' to some various amount with mis-conceptions, and improper techniques.
What I do is take what works from any of them and use it. I also have to see it repeatedly prove itself before I'll consider it to be veracious.

Your use of philology, etymology and the like in detecting origin and nature is the way to go, I applaud you for such.
As Shankara said; "He who tracks language to its' lair will indeed become omniscient!" ...I do so whole heartedly agree.
All that being said...I still think this 13 sign Zodiac being proposed is a 'crock of ****'.

I must take a break now. I do want to write of a possibility as to a 14 sign Zodiac...if you've read my threads or contributions to the subject of musical tonality and the visible spectrum in application to the Zodiac, you may have a notion of what I wish to get into.
Possibly, right at the moment you are reading this, you have already got something going on in your brain as to this '14' thing I'm referring to and will have something on the 'board' here when I next check in.

I'd better step away from the keyboard now...as I poured myself a 'toddy' some number of minutes ago...and i don't wish to have a repeat of incidence for which I'll have to apologize again...and end up with a permanent dis-reputation...
I hope you have been understanding as per my apologies, and I hope you at least try to understand my position...if not my logic and conclusions. [two out of three will make me most happy!] Best regards, peace. ptv

Thank you for your sincerity.

My approach is slightly more mathematical than yours.
It is just a dialog and it's good to be passionated for your ideas. It is really brave to apologize when you think you've done something wrong.
Please allow me to tell you your 13 Zodiac Birth Horoscope!! Or at least a small part of it!

According to 13 Zodiac Astrology you are Aries. When you were born the Sun was in Aries!.
As an Aries man You show strong resilience in the face of the hardships of life, and hang onto your ideals in difficult moments.
Your Ascendant which is depicted by the place of the Moon on the Ecliptic is Capricorn. The Moon in Capricorn means available for free thinking but also Trends to extreme behavior.
Venus and Mercury were in Pisces, Mars and Jupiter in Taurus. Neptune and Saturn in Virgo and Uranus in Gemini!! These are the true positions of the planets into the Zodiac Constellations at the time of your birth.

The Sun had 8 Sunspots that show a mild natured character!

Vasilis

ps. I 'll stay with the 13 Signs and let somebody else discover the 14th!!