Random Thoughts, strictly Text

Are you working with more information, or are you connecting the dots?

When algorithms take over the world...

I haven't watched it yet but the title is apt for what I just typed into my phone a few minutes ago.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wCTiS8tdBHo

Thank you tech overlords

I was asking if you were privy to insider information. Of course you would never in a million years disclose if you did, but I figured I'd ask anyway. No gotchas intended.

passiflora said:

Appreciate that! Even if you don't go all the way to secrets -- Anyone with skin in a game has a particular kind of deeper information just due to the effort of trying to use what others superficially know. Kt Boehrer opens her book on declination with something similar:
"Two things seem certain. One, astrology does not give up its secrets without a struggle, and two, astrology tends to reward the struggle generously on the tangent."

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Meaning, you learn things you weren't expecting to learn?

conspiracy theorist said:

Do you see the value in holidays, seasons and rituals in general?

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idk, do i look like a people expert?

passiflora said:

Ugh, need to think about this one. I was sort of hopeful seeing the Venus also conjunct Sun in his chart but their synastry is pretty terrible. His Saturn and Neptune in her 1st, and look at their nodal axes: her moon with his Aqua NN, and his Sun-Venus-Uranus with her Cancer NN.

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If you have any further thoughts I’d be very interested to hear.

With her Moon conjunct his NN, from a karmic astrology perspective, Britney could be the reincarnation of his actual Mum.

But it definitely proves that when examining the way a man behaves towards any women in his life, you first examine the relationship with his Mother.

And also thank god for reincarnation because Daddy Spears returning so he can find out how it feels to be imprisoned but also to heal his inner child. However, I also have faith that karma will step in this lifetime and balance things out. The more resolute he is, an opposing energy will be built just as strong back to stop him eventually. It’s already begun - this energy surrounding Britney is literally a manifestation of his shadow.

Yes about the best efforts. He was noted to have some gambling and money problems before Britney was famous and said to be very keen she makes money so no doubt has been the driving force pushing to use his daughter as a product. But by all reports he’s done a very good job of the conservatorship, no money stolen etc. Might have paid too many people too much money but all above board.

That is his best :/

Ukpoohbear said:

Me too. What I like about it is she will be a beacon for others who appear just as stressed by PTSD as she is. I know she has been diagnosed with bipolar (I think), but it’s no doubt PTSD too. In that sense, she has emerged already but I agree it would be nice to see the fear/PTSD go from her eyes.

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Yes. I recall when her father went to court to take the necessary steps to save her from herself as they put it then. I can understand, having had a bi-polar child myself and realized the girl may have committed suicide and needed to be carefully attended to.
I (on the other hand) didn't have the money or the know how to have a judge take away the spouse (at the time), as the one who would take care of all things for the wife as was the case with my adult daughter. So it was up to the spouse to make sure she received the best care and medical help that money or they could afford. He did not, and as a result she is dead. She cried out too in her own way not wanting to die like Britney did with her actions. My daughter put herself into a suicidal ideation for a week or 10 days, but the spouse signed her out because she wanted to leave. Therefore, nothing much was done, except "marriage counseling"......and of course in retrospect was a terrible idea.


At least Britney Spears had a father who cared even IF he were not perfect. As I vaguely recall the story now, she was legally married then when dad went to court asking to oversee his adult daughter's care.


I can't judge him because I've walked in his shoes, in this case - and don't understand someone else who so easily could (having never walked in their collective or individual shoes so to speak)

I wrote this back in 2008 - but I'll check my other charts I know I still have and comment on what I might see so many years later .....


The psychotic breakdown of singer Britney Spears in 2008:
The one who was saved., as Jessica was NOT the same year:


[FONT=&quot] In the U.S.A. we have terrible mental health care overall. That is also my husband and my impression from personal experience with my own daughter. It's the pits really, and you are correct, it's all about feeding them pills and more pills. You live in the U.K. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Never any real long term care solution easily found in our country such as careful one to one with the biological family interviews, unless you are very wealthy (such as Brittney Spears parents were easily able to get control over her and her business dealing, her daily business, her children and her finances, ) while insisting the court aid in establishing the basis for their daughter's mental health.

Brittney was one of the luckier ones however, more rare then the norm for being helped.

A combination of legal moves with the medical field.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] In the U.S. for example, the husband or spouse has legal spousal rights, almost an "ownership", and the parents have no legal options available for such emergencies as for helping their adult children. It's up to the spouse to call the shots for an type of long term entry into a medical place that would be the most beneficial to the person if the adult partner is declared a danger to him or herself.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Oftentimes, the spouse doesn't give a **** either; their investment in the relationship may have been strained to the point of not caring to any great extent, rather wanting a divorce. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
THEN the option for immediate care beyond an initial 2 weeks or so, falls to the mentally ill person themselves as a legal adult, (believe it or not), as the doctors and health care establishment walk on thin ice legally when it comes to being sued for malpractice. This is precisely WHY Brittney's case is unusual in that her parents had both the love, and resources at hand to go the legal route quickly, and not be stymied by the bureaucracy to enable them to help their daughter, plus the fact the then b.f. was not an issue or standing in the way . Regardless the father of B.S. prevailed and she was helped in a short span of time. A success story.

I don't know how she's faring today, but I imagine much better. It's been over 5 years (I wrote this sometime in 2013)
[/FONT]

from the biographical sketch on Astro.com: (recent past from 2019-2021)

imo - it does sound like the judge decided she MUST still for her own good, have a conservator overlooking her life for her best interests, but I would agree a co-conservatorship (a parent) with a non-biased professional one would be best for her as they are attempting now:




On January 4, 2019, Spears announced an "indefinite work hiatus" and the cancellation of her planned Las Vegas residency after her father, Jamie, suffered a near-fatal colon rupture. In March 2019, Andrew Wallet resigned as her co-conservator of her estate after 11 years. Spears entered a psychiatric facility amidst stress from her father's illness that same month. The following month, a podcast alleged that Jamie had canceled the planned residency due to Spears's refusal to take her medication, that he had been holding her in the facility against her will since January 2019 after she violated a no-driving rule, and that her conservatorship was supposed to end in 2009. This gave rise to a movement to terminate the conservatorship, dubbed #FreeBritney. It has garnered support from a number of celebrities, as well as the nonprofit organization the American Civil Liberties Union.



During a May 2019 hearing, Judge Brenda Penny ordered "an expert evaluation" of the conservatorship. In September 2019, Spears's ex-husband Federline obtained a restraining order against her father following an alleged physical altercation between her father and one of her sons. On August 17, Spears's court-appointed lawyer submitted a court filing that documented Spears's desire to have her conservatorship altered to "reflect [...] her current lifestyle and her stated wishes", to instate Montgomery as her permanent conservator, and to replace Jamie with "a qualified corporate fiduciary" as conservator of her estate, this arrangement was extended until February 2021.


In November 2020, Judge Penny approved Bessemer Trust as co-conservator of Spears's estate alongside Jamie.



https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Spears,_Britney

Thank you for the input Leomoon and for balancing it out, as well as sharing your own personal experiences on it. Britney’s Dad no doubt saved her life. It’s clear there is a dysfunctional family dynamic going on as well as greed on her Dad’s part about wanting a famous daughter but the way the fame and media got out of hand was really out of his control. And he did step in to save her life.

It’s tough because it took an iron grip to save her and now he needs to loosen that grip to let her live her life. It’s understandable he wouldn’t be capable of such a turn around especially if he can justify previous controlling behaviour with good deeds.

It’s such a messy, messy dynamic. It’s so obvious it’s time to loosen the grip but I can understand why he can’t see it that way.

All Britney is asking for is an independent person not related to her to be in charge of the conservatorship. That seems sensible to me so I don’t see why she’s not allowed that request. She’s not even allowed to have a baby.

I’ve worked as a carer for people before who are on such strong skitzophrenic medication they need their blood tested for poison and are on birth control because the baby would die in such a poisonous environment but that’s not the case for Britney, it’s literally because they don’t think she could look after a baby which is really harsh imo.

It comes to the point where it’s like, ok, you saved her, but you’ve taken away her life and it’s gone on for too long now.

However, yes, let’s not demonize the dad and focus on healing for them both. It’s so easy to demonize people it’s scary.

All Britney is asking for is an independent person not related to her to be in charge of the conservatorship. That seems sensible to me so I don’t see why she’s not allowed that request. She’s not even allowed to have a baby.

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According to the updated post, (the judge in November 2020 - awarded conservator-ship to both, an independent firm and her father) so one will need to have to consult with the other for her sake concerning anything truly important in her life. At least that is how I read it.



I checked out her chart today because it's been so long since I recalled it but just as I thought, she and my daughter had a breakdown on the same day and month/year - January 2008. Only in Britney's case, she was put in a psychiatric hold "involuntarily" whereas, my daughter voluntarily went to a seven day hold.



This was when Tr. Pluto (Jan.2008) was tr over my daughter's Sun and square her Chiron (10th to 1st) hs & square her ASC. For Britney, Tr PLuto was over her natal Neptune square her 12th house Mars! (dangerous time for her with this square) For her, Pluto had gone direct, after having been 5deg.closer to an exact cj in Neptune in 2007.



She's 4 years younger then my daughter was, so I'm glad to hear she's still alive and functioning, has the ability to see her children and has a life too. The old saying comes to mind, "Where there is life, there is always hope"


https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrit...ead-10-years-ago-relive-her-comeback-w467019/

The Grammy winner hit her breaking point in January 2008 when she was hospitalized on a 5150 involuntary psychiatric hold after refusing to turn her sons, Sean Preston, then 2, and Jayden James, then 14 months, over to Federline. Luckily, the incident set the stage for recovery.

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This article was written in 2017, the 10 yr anniversary of when she shaved her head and everyone knew something was very wrong with her...acting out.

passiflora said:

Appreciate that! Even if you don't go all the way to secrets -- Anyone with skin in a game has a particular kind of deeper information just due to the effort of trying to use what others superficially know. Kt Boehrer opens her book on declination with something similar:
"Two things seem certain. One, astrology does not give up its secrets without a struggle, and two, astrology tends to reward the struggle generously on the tangent."

Click to expand...

Relevant quotes in light of learning about some of the background of Trump's political team prior to his 2016 election win, which I was not expecting to encounter in a book I was reading.

Leo - I take you for someone who is sufficiently curious enough about the world where asking you fresh questions could lead to decent discussions. Am I reading you wrong?

conspiracy theorist said:

Relevant quotes in light of learning about some of the background of Trump's political team prior to his 2016 election win, which I was not expecting to encounter in a book I was reading.

Leo - I take you for someone who is sufficiently curious enough about the world where asking you fresh questions could lead to decent discussions. Am I reading you wrong?

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Wait....they were all Russian agents, right?

Who knows, but the sock puppets that showed up in fringe chatrooms pushing dank Trump memes don't seem so innocent/grassroots as one might be lulled into believing.

Does one have to be Russian and/or Chinese to be able to use the tools/playing field of modern technological infrastructure to socially engineer?

conspiracy theorist said:

Relevant quotes in light of learning about some of the background of Trump's political team prior to his 2016 election win, which I was not expecting to encounter in a book I was reading.

Leo - I take you for someone who is sufficiently curious enough about the world where asking you fresh questions could lead to decent discussions. Am I reading you wrong?

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I'd like to think I am, however, one never knows until the question is asked. In otherwords, I've been on this earth for 7 decades now, so its not my 1st Rodeo as they say yet I too can be thin skinned at times i.e. bruise easily or bleed at times depending on the moon's phase (Cancer Rising)

Nah, there's another Leo on this thread and his name starts with Apple. That comment wasn't directed at you Leomoon. No harm intended (to you that is)

App's Mars is conj. the dsc while my Mars is conj. the asc. I'd like to imagine that we both get something from the occasional jaggedness.

conspiracy theorist said:

App's Mars is conj. the dsc while my Mars is conj. the asc. I'd like to imagine that we both get something from the occasional jaggedness.

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In 12/12, Mars in =Sense of Direction

Whereas Mars in =Sense of Purpose

Good combination!

conspiracy theorist said:

Leo - I take you for someone who is sufficiently curious enough about the world where asking you fresh questions could lead to decent discussions. Am I reading you wrong?

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"Do you see the value in holidays, seasons and rituals in general?"

Nono, I guess I just didn't really know how to answer the question.

I think humanity would be perfectly fine without holidays.

They're not necessary for a happy life. Although holidays are a certain type of ritual, we need rituals for a happy life.

If a ritual is another word for powerful and productive habits, then yes rituals are essential to a happy life. If they're rituals that are more "mystical" then they're unnecessary or valueless unless you put value in them.

However, putting value and meaning in a ritual (an arbitrary impractical action just because it feels right or because everyone else is) borders on the irrational. Although Rationality is necessary for knowledge and proper action, humans are mostly motivated out of feelings and intuitions, especially because reason isn't always an option or it's just irrational to question your own motives.

The idea of questioning why you practice a holiday like Christmas, whether or not it's important, and if you should suspend it along with other holidays, and introduce more powerful and better holidays might have some benefit, but it's very low on one's hierarchy of values. There are much more pressing and concerning things to reason and introspect about than why you practice fun and enjoyable holidays like Christmas. That's why I got confused by your question because holidays are neutral and/or enjoyable for my life, so there's no need to question them.

The only time this question would be taken seriously is if you change religion or integrate into a new culture. Since holidays, rituals, and/or celebrations are practiced in unison with others, it's probably a good idea to celebrate what everyone else is celebrating unless you want to be lonely.

However, I do believe that celebrations are important for a happy life. If one can't set time aside for rest and enjoyment of the fruits of their labor, then they're missing out. Celebrations, don't have to be ritualistic or performed during holidays though. They're highly collectivistic so they may actually stifle authentic celebration. Someone may be forced to celebrate during a holiday when they don't want to or may feel uncomfortable celebrating on a non-holiday.

As far as seasons go, I have no idea how they relate to holidays or rituals. Holidays happen around certain seasons, but yeah.. seasons in themselves are irrelevant. Unless it's literally a ritual of the Earth, but we have no choice in valuing this ritual. We have to value seasons if we value our lives.

Summer is obviously valuable because it brings light and warmth, which is utterly important for all living things. Generally, the Earth goes through natural seasonal cycles, and if these suddenly stopped or were hindered, life on Earth would have serious issues, especially for humans.

We can kind of already see it with our introduction of electricity. With constant artificial light, our minds and bodies believe that we are in never-ending summer. Which has induced overeating, insomnia, hyperactivity, and hypereproductivity. But maybe valuing the seasons will be a thing of the past when we introduce technology that artificially resembles the seasons in futuristic dome-cities on Mars. Or we finally evolve to withstand the negative impacts of the technologies we make.

As astrologers, seasons could be an umbrella category for transits or planetary energy changes, but these only hold value if you're an astrologer. And whatever rituals or holidays you practice during these energy shifts, again, only hold value if you put value in them. Plus, astrological observation lacks value for humanity at large.