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  #1  
Unread 01-08-2015, 05:12 PM
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kx5 kx5 is offline
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Evil Charts?

Hello again fellow astrologers.

Out of interest, I've recently been studying, so to say, the behaviour and psychological backgrounds of offenders and serial killers. It was therefore natural of me to start wondering what makes a person evil astrology-wise? Which aspects, which signs? Configurations (kite, T-square etc)?

Upon trying to answer this question on my own, I figured I'd use a serial killer's natal chart, which, assuming the time of birth is correct, should provide some information as to the nature of the man himself and the reason behind his actions. I randomly chose Ed Gein's chart.
Criminal record aside, it is a fact that psychologists diagnosed Gein with schizophrenia (or something similar, perhaps amongst other disorders). Furthermore, they attributed his extremely bizarre and violent demeanour to his oppressive and 'psychotic' family enviroment, especially his domineering religious mother, to whom he seemed to cling on throughout his life even after her death. As such, lots of Gein's criminal activities (primarily murders of women and grotesque transvestite tendencies) have been interpreted as an expression of the anguish and confusion he felt about his mother.

Attached at the end of this post you'll find Ed Gein's natal chart, according to Astro-Databank.

Here are my observations:
1) One should expect to see lots of Moon/Cancer in his chart. The Moon does aspect Mars, DESC, MC etc, and we've got exalted Jupiter + Neptune in Cancer. Although these seem to imply that his actions have been at least coloured by Gein's idea of his mother, they are still confusing. The entire chart seems to be describing a man with a strong connection to his mother/family, but not especially violent.

2) His Virgo Sun in 4th house conjunct his IC by a longshot. By itself, the Sun doesn't seem to be impying Gein was such an evil man as well.

3) One the other hand Virgo's ruler, Mercury, stands between Mars and the NN, possibly giving the Sun a darker hue.

4) The signs that could be considered to represent 'evil', eg Scorpio, Capricorn, Aquarius etc are almost empty. But Pluto, for instance, is conjunct his ASC and trining his MC, and Saturn is retrograde in Pisces (10th house), whose ruler, Neptune, is in Cancer. That said, Leo seems to be strongly present in the chart.

5) The houses corresponding to these signs are also mostly empty. The 12th house is empty as well.

I have omitted some other aspects made between the aforementioned planets for the sake of frankness.

Having said all that, I remain puzzled. If I saw this chart without knowing whose chart it is, most likely I wouldn't have said that this person is a world-known serial killer, whose atrocities shocked the entire world and inspired many fictitious evil characters. Based on his chart, what do you believe adequately describes Gein's nature? And what could generally point to a criminally-inclined person?
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  #2  
Unread 01-08-2015, 08:51 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

There is no 'evil' in a birth chart. It is an arrangement of stars.

Each person acts from their own free will and is responsible for their own choices.

This line of research maintains that same problematic inquiry of the field of psychiatry from around the turn of the century and the early 1900s, namely that if we study neurosis/neurotics we can understand human psychology better. Look at all these 'researchers.' Freud was a coke addict who advocated cocaine as the cure for neurosis. Reich was a sexual obsessive who over-emphasized the sex act and orgasm as his 'cure' for neurosis. My point is, we learn nothing from staring into evil, murderers, psychopaths. What you may experience if you stare too long is a loss of faith in the goodness of humanity. Your confusion is the first indicator to look elsewhere.

Does studying such persons or their charts lead you to answers about who you are or how you can be happy and fulfilled in life? No. Because this line of inquiry is a grand philosophical one about human nature and you cannot come to answers by limiting focus to astrological charts of certain individuals.

Ask yourself why are you personally so interested?

I'm not suggesting that there are not legitimate inquiries relating to evil. But they relate to what evil is and how it grows in the general sense, which can only become a healthy, productive inquiry when it leads us to understanding the implied mirror truths about life.

I inquired myself about these things. Several years back when I was regularly attending a couple Unitarian Fellowships in East Texas, these questions came up. They tend to be theologically tinged ... why would any God allow such evil to exist, etc ...

I came to a conclusion that satisfied some fellow seekers and me too. Evil is what happens when we separate power from Love. It happens in tiny incremental amounts day to day unless/until we reverse it. This is the religious idea of repentance, of reforming oneself, etc. All of us have engaged in behaviors that were based on choices of picking power (one-upmanship, dominance, etc) over Love. When we don't consider others equally to ourselves this is what we do. The main difference with those we call 'evil' or 'criminal' is the scale and intensity of the acts. The main factor astrologically is most often Pluto, as is plainly suggested in the chart example you provide. Pluto is the 'god of the underworld' and relates to criminal networks and the network of shadow or 'black market' reasoning we hide within ourselves, as well as to the principle of Power and total consciousness. But Pluto factors do not make one evil or criminal.

As Cayce said, we each face self in life. If a person has repeatedly used violence to avoid solving problems or conflicts in human relationships in previous lifetimes they are more likely to find it easier to opt for that in this lifetime. If you cannot consider reincarnation here, you are less likely to have a large enough context to avoid the cynical bent to further inquiries (why would God allow... etc). Choices follow us from one lifetime to the next until we work them out.

While it can be difficult, even harmful to stare into the light of truth too long at a time, staring into darkness accomplishes nothing. It reveals only the destructive, not the creative, thus nothing of the inherent good in us.
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  #3  
Unread 01-08-2015, 09:55 PM
Krewster Krewster is offline
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Re: Evil Charts?


Im neither well-versed in astro-criminology nor inclined to study famous charts in hopes of elucidation but did not the following indicators of frustration in his chart:

Among personal planets, Mars alone is red aspected to the max (making tight octile and semi-octile aspects to Jup, Sat and Uran, viewable as a tall-skinny trapezoid with Mars-Sat and Jup-Uran serving as crossbraces).

The softer personals are also a bit red (Moon 180 Pluto and Sun 45 Ven).
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Unread 01-09-2015, 12:00 AM
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Re: Evil Charts?

If a birth chart indicated evil, everyone born that same day would be evil. That's hundreds, maybe thousands, of people worldwide. The exact placement of the moon and the placements of the houses would vary between people born the same day, but the rest of the birth chart would not.

Since serial killers and other extreme evil doers are few and far between, it can't be the birth chart that causes their evil, at least not in and of itself. If you look at the karmic indicators in the chart, they might show patterns from the karmic past that could manifest as extreme evil if repeated in this life... but even that isn't a guarantee. Those same karmic patterns could just as easily manifest as hidden anger or frustration or less blatantly evil deeds.

Gein's chart is hard to read in that respect because there's very little in it that tells the karmic story. His nodal axis makes almost no aspects, and no major aspects at all involving planets. From the placements of his south node's rulers, Uranus and Saturn, it looks to me like a past life pattern of being a bureaucrat with escapist tendencies (Saturn in Pisces in the tenth house) and/or stuck in a limiting marriage that stifled his creativity (Uranus in Capricorn in the seventh). I don't know enough about Gein's biography to know if anything along those lines happened to him as Edward Gein, but those patterns hardly suggest a serial killer.
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  #5  
Unread 01-10-2015, 01:52 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Jupiter is usually pronounced in the charts of serial killers etc , from my research, I have read lines such as : "Jupiter is where we feel we can take risks, we feel we can get away with murder" - Perhaps even an element that relaxes the mind or tricks it into believing they can get away with such vile behavior. Neptune in aspect to Jupiter/Mercury mind.

I have studied a few charts of serial killers - one in particular I recall had a stellium of planets in Capricorn (control) posited in the ninth, believing perhaps that it was his right to take the lives of others with Capricorn in ninth.
Uranus in Taurus conjunct the ascendant - much earth pertains to the body and also fixation/obsession , notoriously so if Pluto is also involved, if we are thinking about torture here of course then surely Pluto/earth is prominent with an afflicted mercury?
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  #6  
Unread 01-12-2015, 01:07 AM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kx5 View Post
Hello again fellow astrologers.

Out of interest, I've recently been studying, so to say, the behaviour and psychological backgrounds of offenders and serial killers. It was therefore natural of me to start wondering what makes a person evil astrology-wise? Which aspects, which signs? Configurations (kite, T-square etc)?

Upon trying to answer this question on my own, I figured I'd use a serial killer's natal chart, which, assuming the time of birth is correct, should provide some information as to the nature of the man himself and the reason behind his actions. I randomly chose Ed Gein's chart.
Criminal record aside, it is a fact that psychologists diagnosed Gein with schizophrenia (or something similar, perhaps amongst other disorders). Furthermore, they attributed his extremely bizarre and violent demeanour to his oppressive and 'psychotic' family enviroment, especially his domineering religious mother, to whom he seemed to cling on throughout his life even after her death. As such, lots of Gein's criminal activities (primarily murders of women and grotesque transvestite tendencies) have been interpreted as an expression of the anguish and confusion he felt about his mother.

Attached at the end of this post you'll find Ed Gein's natal chart, according to Astro-Databank.

Here are my observations:
1) One should expect to see lots of Moon/Cancer in his chart. The Moon does aspect Mars, DESC, MC etc, and we've got exalted Jupiter + Neptune in Cancer. Although these seem to imply that his actions have been at least coloured by Gein's idea of his mother, they are still confusing. The entire chart seems to be describing a man with a strong connection to his mother/family, but not especially violent.

2) His Virgo Sun in 4th house conjunct his IC by a longshot. By itself, the Sun doesn't seem to be impying Gein was such an evil man as well.

3) One the other hand Virgo's ruler, Mercury, stands between Mars and the NN, possibly giving the Sun a darker hue.

4) The signs that could be considered to represent 'evil', eg Scorpio, Capricorn, Aquarius etc are almost empty. But Pluto, for instance, is conjunct his ASC and trining his MC, and Saturn is retrograde in Pisces (10th house), whose ruler, Neptune, is in Cancer. That said, Leo seems to be strongly present in the chart.

5) The houses corresponding to these signs are also mostly empty. The 12th house is empty as well.

I have omitted some other aspects made between the aforementioned planets for the sake of frankness.

Having said all that, I remain puzzled. If I saw this chart without knowing whose chart it is, most likely I wouldn't have said that this person is a world-known serial killer, whose atrocities shocked the entire world and inspired many fictitious evil characters. Based on his chart, what do you believe adequately describes Gein's nature? And what could generally point to a criminally-inclined person?
There are no templates or a set pattern. Mars, Pluto in challenging aspect and in connection with the Moon, the Sun are examples. The houses affected would show where and to whom a serial killer may carry out his deeds. The 12th house is one of insanity and depravity especially with drugs or other substances and it has been said that murderers are not necessarily insane.

You cannot look at an anonymous chart and pick that they are serial killers.

The 12th house is one of incarceration and institutions and a transit there would indicate if they are being imprisoned along with aspects elsewhere in the chart.
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Unread 03-06-2015, 05:12 AM
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Re: Evil Charts?

kx5, I think you did well in exploring the chart of a serial killer. I hope everyone is OK if I go into lecture mode? But I warn you that I can get a bit long winded.

The direction I have taken is to explore the question, 'what is criminal behaviour?'

Generally, looking at the key psychological features of a serial criminal be it serial killer or serial thief, serial violent assault or serial sex offender, the common themes include a lack of empathy for their victim.

This lack of empathy can be projected onto others, family members, co workers, people in the check out line at McDonalds... we would label it narcissistic behaviour, lack of empathy, self centered, unable to understand why others have emotional connections, blame others for their own mistakes, and a single minded desire to get what they want.

The next step is to look at which criminal behaviour includes narcissism, and that is psychopathy, psychopaths.

The keys in the astrology chart then lie in those signs, planets and houses that emphasise narcissistic traits, and these are the Elements Fire and Air.

In my research serial criminals have a common feature of Air and Fire in their charts, I call it the Air Fire Pentagram, its similar to the Fire Triangle, focused towards success, sometimes it becomes success at all costs.

This Air and Fire dominance is just a starter, it is one step in the process, because there are other factors that include outer planet conjunctions to angles and personal planets etc. that can suggest psychological disturbance, childhood trauma etc.

I think a serial criminal will generally show a dominance in Air and / or Fire plus other significant features in their chart. Again this Air Fire dominance suggests narcissism. It isn't narcissism as such but.... lets just see what else adds to my line of thinking.

If we then add Outer Planet conjunctions to the Ascendant or a Luminary, will add certain other psychological traits that may (or may not) trigger these narcissistic or criminal behaviours.

Having said that, and as others have already mentioned it in this thread, narcissistic traits are not limited to serial criminals, nor do outer planet conjunctions to Luminaries or Angles. Heck, I would have to include myself in this group if it did.

It appears that these psychological traits (or astrological traits) can be triggered in a person with a predisposition towards criminal behaviour.

These triggers can include child abuse, certain opportunities that has led them to get away with criminal activity such as white collar crime or theft or bullying, etc. early in life.

It is very important to note that this description is for serial criminals only, its limited to those who make a life of doing really nasty things.

There are other criminals who aren't psychopaths, there are people who commit 'crimes of passion', commonly a man or woman who kills their spouse in a moment of grief, depression, madness, betrayal... in other words a single moment of passion, a blind rage that is triggered by extreme emotional torture.

These criminals do not make a habit of it though, the serial criminal does.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings, back to work

Quote:
Originally Posted by kx5 View Post
Hello again fellow astrologers.

Out of interest, I've recently been studying, so to say, the behaviour and psychological backgrounds of offenders and serial killers. It was therefore natural of me to start wondering what makes a person evil astrology-wise? Which aspects, which signs? Configurations (kite, T-square etc)?

Upon trying to answer this question on my own, I figured I'd use a serial killer's natal chart, which, assuming the time of birth is correct, should provide some information as to the nature of the man himself and the reason behind his actions. I randomly chose Ed Gein's chart.
Criminal record aside, it is a fact that psychologists diagnosed Gein with schizophrenia (or something similar, perhaps amongst other disorders). Furthermore, they attributed his extremely bizarre and violent demeanour to his oppressive and 'psychotic' family enviroment, especially his domineering religious mother, to whom he seemed to cling on throughout his life even after her death. As such, lots of Gein's criminal activities (primarily murders of women and grotesque transvestite tendencies) have been interpreted as an expression of the anguish and confusion he felt about his mother.

Attached at the end of this post you'll find Ed Gein's natal chart, according to Astro-Databank.

Here are my observations:
1) One should expect to see lots of Moon/Cancer in his chart. The Moon does aspect Mars, DESC, MC etc, and we've got exalted Jupiter + Neptune in Cancer. Although these seem to imply that his actions have been at least coloured by Gein's idea of his mother, they are still confusing. The entire chart seems to be describing a man with a strong connection to his mother/family, but not especially violent.

2) His Virgo Sun in 4th house conjunct his IC by a longshot. By itself, the Sun doesn't seem to be impying Gein was such an evil man as well.

3) One the other hand Virgo's ruler, Mercury, stands between Mars and the NN, possibly giving the Sun a darker hue.

4) The signs that could be considered to represent 'evil', eg Scorpio, Capricorn, Aquarius etc are almost empty. But Pluto, for instance, is conjunct his ASC and trining his MC, and Saturn is retrograde in Pisces (10th house), whose ruler, Neptune, is in Cancer. That said, Leo seems to be strongly present in the chart.

5) The houses corresponding to these signs are also mostly empty. The 12th house is empty as well.

I have omitted some other aspects made between the aforementioned planets for the sake of frankness.

Having said all that, I remain puzzled. If I saw this chart without knowing whose chart it is, most likely I wouldn't have said that this person is a world-known serial killer, whose atrocities shocked the entire world and inspired many fictitious evil characters. Based on his chart, what do you believe adequately describes Gein's nature? And what could generally point to a criminally-inclined person?
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Unread 04-14-2015, 09:11 AM
Izzy542 Izzy542 is offline
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Please elaborate about the triangle of success by any cost you mention bellow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel Eastwood View Post
kx5, I think you did well in exploring the chart of a serial killer. I hope everyone is OK if I go into lecture mode? But I warn you that I can get a bit long winded.

The direction I have taken is to explore the question, 'what is criminal behaviour?'


Generally, looking at the key psychological features of a serial criminal be it serial killer or serial thief, serial violent assault or serial sex offender, the common themes include a lack of empathy for their victim.



This lack of empathy can be projected onto others, family members, co workers, people in the check out line at McDonalds... we would label it narcissistic behaviour, lack of empathy, self centered, unable to understand why others have emotional connections, blame others for their own mistakes, and a single minded desire to get what they want.

The next step is to look at which criminal behaviour includes narcissism, and that is psychopathy, psychopaths.

The keys in the astrology chart then lie in those signs, planets and houses that emphasise narcissistic traits, and these are the Elements Fire and Air.

In my research serial criminals have a common feature of Air and Fire in their charts, I call it the Air Fire Pentagram, its similar to the Fire Triangle, focused towards success, sometimes it becomes success at all costs.

This Air and Fire dominance is just a starter, it is one step in the process, because there are other factors that include outer planet conjunctions to angles and personal planets etc. that can suggest psychological disturbance, childhood trauma etc.

I think a serial criminal will generally show a dominance in Air and / or Fire plus other significant features in their chart. Again this Air Fire dominance suggests narcissism. It isn't narcissism as such but.... lets just see what else adds to my line of thinking.

If we then add Outer Planet conjunctions to the Ascendant or a Luminary, will add certain other psychological traits that may (or may not) trigger these narcissistic or criminal behaviours.

Having said that, and as others have already mentioned it in this thread, narcissistic traits are not limited to serial criminals, nor do outer planet conjunctions to Luminaries or Angles. Heck, I would have to include myself in this group if it did.

It appears that these psychological traits (or astrological traits) can be triggered in a person with a predisposition towards criminal behaviour.

These triggers can include child abuse, certain opportunities that has led them to get away with criminal activity such as white collar crime or theft or bullying, etc. early in life.

It is very important to note that this description is for serial criminals only, its limited to those who make a life of doing really nasty things.

There are other criminals who aren't psychopaths, there are people who commit 'crimes of passion', commonly a man or woman who kills their spouse in a moment of grief, depression, madness, betrayal... in other words a single moment of passion, a blind rage that is triggered by extreme emotional torture.

These criminals do not make a habit of it though, the serial criminal does.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings, back to work
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Unread 04-14-2015, 09:12 AM
Izzy542 Izzy542 is offline
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Please elaborate about the fiar triangle of success by any cost you mention bellow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel Eastwood View Post
kx5, I think you did well in exploring the chart of a serial killer. I hope everyone is OK if I go into lecture mode? But I warn you that I can get a bit long winded.

The direction I have taken is to explore the question, 'what is criminal behaviour?'


Generally, looking at the key psychological features of a serial criminal be it serial killer or serial thief, serial violent assault or serial sex offender, the common themes include a lack of empathy for their victim.



This lack of empathy can be projected onto others, family members, co workers, people in the check out line at McDonalds... we would label it narcissistic behaviour, lack of empathy, self centered, unable to understand why others have emotional connections, blame others for their own mistakes, and a single minded desire to get what they want.

The next step is to look at which criminal behaviour includes narcissism, and that is psychopathy, psychopaths.

The keys in the astrology chart then lie in those signs, planets and houses that emphasise narcissistic traits, and these are the Elements Fire and Air.

In my research serial criminals have a common feature of Air and Fire in their charts, I call it the Air Fire Pentagram, its similar to the Fire Triangle, focused towards success, sometimes it becomes success at all costs.

This Air and Fire dominance is just a starter, it is one step in the process, because there are other factors that include outer planet conjunctions to angles and personal planets etc. that can suggest psychological disturbance, childhood trauma etc.

I think a serial criminal will generally show a dominance in Air and / or Fire plus other significant features in their chart. Again this Air Fire dominance suggests narcissism. It isn't narcissism as such but.... lets just see what else adds to my line of thinking.

If we then add Outer Planet conjunctions to the Ascendant or a Luminary, will add certain other psychological traits that may (or may not) trigger these narcissistic or criminal behaviours.

Having said that, and as others have already mentioned it in this thread, narcissistic traits are not limited to serial criminals, nor do outer planet conjunctions to Luminaries or Angles. Heck, I would have to include myself in this group if it did.

It appears that these psychological traits (or astrological traits) can be triggered in a person with a predisposition towards criminal behaviour.

These triggers can include child abuse, certain opportunities that has led them to get away with criminal activity such as white collar crime or theft or bullying, etc. early in life.

It is very important to note that this description is for serial criminals only, its limited to those who make a life of doing really nasty things.

There are other criminals who aren't psychopaths, there are people who commit 'crimes of passion', commonly a man or woman who kills their spouse in a moment of grief, depression, madness, betrayal... in other words a single moment of passion, a blind rage that is triggered by extreme emotional torture.

These criminals do not make a habit of it though, the serial criminal does.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings, back to work
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Unread 04-14-2015, 11:10 AM
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Noel Eastwood Noel Eastwood is offline
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy542 View Post
Please elaborate about the triangle of success by any cost you mention bellow.
Izzy, sorry, I don't quite understand your question, can you please rephrase it for me, thanks.
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Unread 04-14-2015, 11:55 AM
Izzy542 Izzy542 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel Eastwood View Post
Izzy, sorry, I don't quite understand your question, can you please rephrase it for me, thanks.
In your post you are mentioning a fire pentagram and a fire triangle. I have never heard before about the triangle and how it is works, I probably have it in my natal chart. Thats why I am asking.
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Unread 04-14-2015, 12:31 PM
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Noel Eastwood Noel Eastwood is offline
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy542 View Post
In your post you are mentioning a fire pentagram and a fire triangle. I have never heard before about the triangle and how it is works, I probably have it in my natal chart. Thats why I am asking.
OK, thanks, the Fire Triangle is the House cusps of 1st, 5th and 9th Houses. If a Fire sign sits on these 3 House cusps then it is a Fire Triangle. It adds Fire to their personality.

We see it in people who have Aries, Leo or Sagittarius Rising, generally they too will have 5th and 9th House cusps in Fire as well.
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Unread 04-14-2015, 12:35 PM
Izzy542 Izzy542 is offline
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Re: Evil Charts?

Thank you very much,no I do not have it, I am on 2,6,10 fire signs but it was helpfull to know.
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Unread 04-14-2015, 05:34 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy542 View Post
Thank you very much,no I do not have it, I am on 2,6,10 fire signs but it was helpfull to know.
Izzy, as I recall from your other thread, what you have is a fire grand trine. That's when you have planets in all of your fire signs and all those planets are trine with each other. It doesn't matter which houses those planets are in.

A fire grand trine isn't the same thing as a fire triangle, but it still puts lots of fire in your personality.
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Unread 04-14-2015, 05:42 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

If it helps any, I have one of those fire triangle things. In fire signs, no less. Starting with the ascendant and involving malefics. Or would do if I used the outer planets. But I don't.

Somehow, I have managed to refrain from murder. For many decades now!

I have sort of an aversion to violence.

The only time I got thrown out of a country was when I was trying to keep people *alive* (and yay, it worked, although it did come at a cost of great personal discomfort).

I realise I am but a sample size of one here - on the other hand, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in this 'fire triangle' theory.

Even using traditional astrology, which deals in predictions, it is very, very difficult to work out things like someone being a murderer from their birth chart. Not impossible, perhaps, but far from easy. And then what do you do with the folks who have all those nasty constellations, but just think about evil things instead of doing them?

Mostly - don't be too hasty to judge by a chart alone.
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Unread 04-14-2015, 08:56 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Oh, great, Noel. In modern astrology my chart has half the planets plus the MC in air or fire. I'm a senior citizen, so perhaps it's safe to say I avoided a life of crime.

Since air signs are primarily mental in their orientation, and fire signs orient towards action/enthusiasm, I've read the air-fire combo as indicating "excitement (fire) about ideas (air.)"

I do appreciate your caveat that other factors must be present.

Some neuroscientists believe that there is a "pathology gene" that shows up in the charts of both criminals and ordinary law-abiding people; but that an abusive childhood can trigger it. One man who had the gene and wrote about it, a surgeon, claimed that it would be hard to perform surgery if he had to worry about cutting into people and causing them pain. He had no criminal record, but found a socially acceptable way of expressing a pathological side of his personality.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Psychopath.../dp/1591846005

I agree with those who argue that the chart itself isn't evil, and that you couldn't just pick out a sociopathic killer's chart out of a random (unskewed) anonymous set of charts. Also, that perfectly ordinary people are born on the same date as mass murderers, yet they don't break the law. The two things that would change, however, would be the house cusps, and sometimes the moon's sign. A cluster of ugly planets in the 4th house might indicate a difficult childhood sufficient to trigger sociopathic behaviour.
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Last edited by waybread; 04-14-2015 at 09:00 PM.
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Unread 04-14-2015, 09:03 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Good post waybread, yep, its really a whole chart thing, the dominance of Air and Fire just add more information to those other factors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Oh, great, Noel. In modern astrology my chart has half the planets plus the MC in air or fire. I'm a senior citizen, so perhaps it's safe to say I avoided a life of crime.

Since air signs are primarily mental in their orientation, and fire signs orient towards action/enthusiasm, I've read the air-fire combo as indicating "excitement (fire) about ideas (air.)"

I do appreciate your caveat that other factors must be present.

Some neuroscientists believe that there is a "pathology gene" that shows up in the charts of both criminals and ordinary law-abiding people; but that an abusive childhood can trigger it. One man who had the gene and wrote about it, a surgeon, claimed that it would be hard to perform surgery if he had to worry about cutting into people and causing them pain. He had no criminal record, but found a socially acceptable way of expressing a pathological side of his personality.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Psychopath.../dp/1591846005

I agree with those who argue that the chart itself isn't evil, and that you couldn't just pick out a sociopathic killer's chart out of a random (unskewed) anonymous set of charts. Also, that perfectly ordinary people are born on the same date as mass murderers, yet they don't break the law. The two things that would change, however, would be the house cusps, and sometimes the moon's sign. A cluster of ugly planets in the 4th house might indicate a difficult childhood sufficient to trigger sociopathic behaviour.
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Unread 05-02-2015, 02:15 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Thank you for your answers everyone, and I apologise for my tardiness in replying.

So far, what has been said is that:
1) Air and Fire signs, especially when highlighted and/or combined, may arouse greater enthusiasm and unrest in a person, either positively or negatively.
2) Since this enthusiasm could be about anything, murder/crime generally is one of the possibilities, but also the least likely for that matter.
3) One thing that could possibly make one express his extra energy and dynamism criminally is a terrible family environment and/or childhood. But even a nasty 4th house, combined with the aforementioned air-fire configurations, may not necessarily imply a serial killer.

In the case of serial killers, you'd look for a remarkable lack of empathy.
For a serial thief, you'd look for an intense feeling of survival.
For an infamous bank robber, you'd look for ambition.
For a serial sex offender, you'd look for sexual suppression and high sex drive.
And the list goes on.

Another example would be a poor man with an obvious imperative need to survive, who turns to theft in an attempt to make some money. His chart would most likely highlight that this man isn't financially stable but is quite passionate about surviving. But, just like with every other criminal, which one of all ways he'd use to get what he wants isn't something that a chart can tell us.

As such, I have to admit, I do agree with what has been said so far. I never particularly expected that a specific 'set' of configurations would always appear in the charts of serial criminals, so yes, my question as to what could theoretically make them was more generic. But I do understand now, and thank you very much everyone!
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Unread 05-02-2015, 03:19 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

I wouldn't put grifting to stay alive or to keep your kids alive in the
serious criminal category, astrologically or other. Compare this to the heads of corporations who literally get away with murder because laws are written to favour profits. The more money you have, the more bad behaviour you can get away with.

It all gets really muddy.
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Unread 05-02-2015, 04:52 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

What about the fixed stars?

All these aspects previously discussed appear in millions of people's charts.

Maybe if mars is conjunct a certain negative fixed star and there are other aspects to do with the 8th house that would be a rare enough occurance to make a killer?

(William Lilly was able to predict the fire of London using a fixed star)

Mars rules sex and violence
Pluto rules death and sex

A lot of serial killers have a sexual aspect to their killings, so it has to be astrological in my opinion.


EDIT-Hmm just looked at Charlie Mansons fixed stars

Fixed Stars - MERCURY - Princeps VENUS - N. Scale SATURN - Nashira SATURN - Deneb Algedi
MOON - Oculus MOON - Bos


Just looked at venus-northscale and it says:
With Venus: Social success, help from women, favorable for love affairs and marriage

Well he got plenty of social success and help from women thats for sure!

nashira
Quote:
According to Ptolemy it is of the nature of Saturn and Jupiter; and, to Simmonite, of Saturn. It causes overcoming by evil, which is turned to success, and gives danger from beasts. [Robson*, p.179.]
Deneb with Saturn:
Quote:
With Saturn: Great power over animals and poisonous reptiles, indifferent to study, knowledge of many secrets of nature, feared, unpleasant appearance and life, bad for marriage, death of or separation from parents in youth, secluded end of life. [Robson*, p.160.]
OK ive done Manson can someone else do another serial killer like Bundy for example?

Last edited by Slenkar; 05-02-2015 at 05:21 PM.
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Unread 05-02-2015, 05:27 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Deneb with Saturn would have gone on for a week, or a month, or more. And then again when it retrograded.

The rest of them would have been active in charts for anyone born the same day as Manson.

Fixed stars can do it, but it's likely going to be that they are really prominent, like on the ASC or MC. And even then they are unlikely to do it without a LOT of support from planets. And you'd want to look at hermetic lots, as well as profections/directions (or whatever predictive techniques you use) that were active at the time of the murders, especially the first murder, if that's known.

Again, I don't say it cannot be done at all, just that it is extremely difficult to do.
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Unread 05-02-2015, 07:45 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

deneb with saturn predicted his whole life from start to end, so how can you say it is only a temporary thing?
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Unread 05-02-2015, 08:04 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

Interesting. Very interesting. I have to admit I never considered fixed stars, and unfortunately have no experience with them. I'd love it if someone more experienced than me could analyse a criminal's chart with them into consideration.
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Unread 05-02-2015, 08:05 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

I didn't say it was temporary. I said it was the same in hundreds, thousands, of birth charts around the same time that Manson was born.

Does it describe all those people, too?
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Unread 05-02-2015, 08:45 PM
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Re: Evil Charts?

ohh i see what you are saying sorry.

Deneb with saturn describes a career criminal who dies in prison, plenty of those around so its possible.
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