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Medical Astrology Astrological diagnoses and other health issues are discussed here. Given that there are so many outer and inner influences on one's health (alimentation, sports, medication, past medical antecedents, state of mind, etc.), an astrological diagnosis is only one of many things to consider when determining your healthiness.


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  #1  
Unread 06-18-2014, 05:40 PM
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Therapy and astrology

How does this process work? I'm considering doing some short term therapy and would be interested in learning more about what is involved. Is there someone you feel has a successful practice?

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Unread 06-18-2014, 09:48 PM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

Hi. It will be interesting to see how our sense of this process varies from person to person.

For me, the therapeutic process is a journey from an ego-based sense of lack, accompanied by various overcompensations and blind-spots, to a sense of abundant presence. A therapeutic use of astrology might involve using the birth chart to pinpoint the pertinent questions which the native can fruitfully reflect upon, thereby seeing through the reality created by the ego in its misguided obsession with self-defence and self-aggrandisement.

For example, if someone has a strong fire emphasis, then immediately certain very important questions come to mind, before looking individual signs, aspects, etc. This person's ego may seek to overcome its innate sense of lack and vulnerability by pursuing a sense of significance, by competing with others in a compulsive way; or by refusing to acknowledge limitation because the sense of potency must be upheld at all costs. The person can ask, 'When do I do these things?' 'What good has it done me?' 'Do I believe the messages I give myself that if I just keep doing these things for long enough, my troubles will be over?' Or 'Do I believe the messages I give myself that I must keep doing these things on order to survive?'

Obviously we don't need astrology to see through our delusions, but the questions it highlights can help us to home in on our primary areas of misguided self-defence more quickly. It can help us get through the some of the smoke screens we throw up when we start to look for something beyond identification with the ego.
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Unread 06-18-2014, 10:53 PM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

I wonder, miquar, to what extent this may be achievable. As you say, it would be interesting to assess for interpersonal variation and what this analysis adds to existing theory. Reading the example you gave brought to mind a person who has a lot of fire, has an overwhelming sense of lack, in compulsive competition with others, manipulative to the point of their way or no way at all, always lecturing everyone on how broken and ego driven they are and why they need to submit to him and loose their ego and then he psychologically abuses them in all kinds of ways. This is a very intelligent, clinically (sadistic) narcissistic person.

I am no expert. I imagine the natal chart would depict narcissism in several ways to the point of showing it to have almost an organic causality, which may serve a socio-spiritual purpose. This may stand in contrast to the cut/dry clinical value of narcissism being negative, fostering abuse. What's interesting, however, is that narcissists, for example, are notoriously impossible to treat because they are unwilling by definition to entertain any such venture. Thus, astrology and therapy, to what extent is it possible to change what is? Ultimately, the person is not betraying their chart, they are merely being it.

I know, in modern theory, there is the supposition of bipolar (-/+) manifestation of any influence and it is comforting to believe that as the native matures s/he will evolve into a higher vibration of the bestowed energies. I wonder to what extent it is possible to change someone, if at all, simply by putting a mirror in front of them (as it were). Perhaps, as a theraputic tool, astrology may assist simply the diagnostic process rather than the change process.
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Unread 06-19-2014, 08:56 AM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

Hi. Yes, no doubt some people are more predisposed towards narcissism than others, but narcissism is a particular way of experiencing the world which is an ego-based distortion of pure perception. No chart says to the native, 'Don't worry about seeing reality as it is - you should indulge your ego as much as you like this time round.' We can betray our chart by ignoring a part of it, but even if we can express each part of the chart in one way or another, there is still the question of whether we are betraying our core nature. Narcissism is a form of a delusion. Whether delusion is labelled as negative is perhaps a matter of personal taste.

Certainly astrology can assist the diagnostic process. Any typology can do this, but astrology is quite complex as typologies go, and of course it comes with a ready-made profile in the form of the birth chart, which gives the 'diagnoser' a head-start. Implicit in any diagnosis is a conceptual framework in which various potential conditions are set out in relation to one another. And so the conceptual framework, whether it is humanistic psychology or Jungian psychology or whatever, doesn't just a describe a person. It gives a sense of where the person is in relation to other potential states of mind - some of which are more desirable than others.

But I take your point that astrology in itself does not bring with it a model for healing. (Though just to know that we are all made of the same archetypes, with choices about how we experience and express them, can be a great help.)

I do believe that we can all change if willing, but if someone doesn't want to change, there isn't much astrology can do. But perhaps it is worthwhile just planting a seed of doubt in the native's mind that their current way of being is the best they can get out of life. At least there is a chance of the seed germinating into new awareness at some appropriate time in the future. A nice Saturn transit or something.
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Last edited by miquar; 06-19-2014 at 08:59 AM.
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Unread 06-19-2014, 05:21 PM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

I think the first question to ask is what is meant by therapy.

Most psychological theories approach the individual via deduction. They have some kind of ideal of what a person should be like, a "standard" individual, the quintessence of normality (who never existed and never will), and each and every person is assessed based on how much they deviate from that standard.

But is it okay to talk about fixing a human being as if we were talking about fixing a dripping tap? The tap is a human construct, which was invented by people to serve a specific purpose and is meant to conform to specific, man-made standards. It belongs to its "tapness". I understand that there are plenty of systems of thought and/or religion that claim to know the origin and purpose of a human being and the intentions of their creator and/or the standards and stencils of evolution... but personally I do not subscribe to any of them, nor do I subscribe to "normality", it is but an abstraction.

Even if we use labels like "narcissist" or "psychopath", do we really believe that any person can be described by DSM -5? And what is the practical purpose in trying to see a person in terms of their "condition"? What does it bring, how is it helpful to view Ms Johnson as a manic depressive? Is it beneficial for Ms Johnson if we single out this or that aspect of her personality, label it "abnormal" and then try and "fix" it for her? And/or do we respect her integrity and individuality when we are doing that?

If you read a psychological analysis of a troubled artist, the one thing that will strike you is that these psychologists never managed to explain how the artist was able to create such amazing art. From their point of view, van Gogh and Ms Johnson were both manic depressives (for example), full stop. Read up "bipolar disorder" in DSM-5 and you know who van Gogh or Ms Johnson was. But do we, really?

To what degree their mental illness defines van Gogh or Ms Johnson? Would van Gogh have made those amazing paintings had he been "normal"? And if not, would he have chosen to be normal instead? Having read some of his letters, I doubt he would have wanted to be "fixed"...

I think it's worth musing a bit about whether our concept of "therapy" is compatible with the integrity and dignity of the other person...

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Unread 06-19-2014, 11:47 PM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

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Originally Posted by miquar View Post
Hi. Yes, no doubt some people are more predisposed towards narcissism than others, but narcissism is a particular way of experiencing the world which is an ego-based distortion of pure perception. No chart says to the native, 'Don't worry about seeing reality as it is - you should indulge your ego as much as you like this time round.' We can betray our chart by ignoring a part of it, but even if we can express each part of the chart in one way or another, there is still the question of whether we are betraying our core nature. Narcissism is a form of a delusion. Whether delusion is labelled as negative is perhaps a matter of personal taste.
Umm. Not sure I agree with the degree of free will which you impose on this topic. Some health conditions, perhaps narcissism and others included, afford no wiggle room. It is or it is not. It may seem that, by virtue of being expressed psychologically, some constitutions are a choice. But they may not be. The chart is not a fool proof diagnositic. It is merely an indication, a suggestion. A practitioner may find indications to suggest to the native a way out of their ailment. But, in my humble opinion, this is no guaratee that the native will be able to heed this advice and take it to change. There is always the issue of degree and how much change does it take before the native is (hypothetically) betraying the chart.

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I do believe that we can all change if willing, but if someone doesn't want to change, there isn't much astrology can do. But perhaps it is worthwhile just planting a seed of doubt in the native's mind that their current way of being is the best they can get out of life. At least there is a chance of the seed germinating into new awareness at some appropriate time in the future. A nice Saturn transit or something.
It is my personal ethos that we can change if willing. That aside, however, unlike a defined illness, pathology is a heterogenous construct. Change is not free for all but depends entirely on the subject. Some things we cannot change, period. Maybe a pertinent question is why do we need a specific change?
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Unread 06-20-2014, 01:28 AM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

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Originally Posted by Moondancing View Post
How does this process work? I'm considering doing some short term therapy and would be interested in learning more about what is involved. Is there someone you feel has a successful practice?
It is important to clarify what you mean by "therapy." For example, whether astrological "therapy" should build on something that is conceptually and empirically distinct from it, such as is clinical psychology, for example. The two traditions sound complementary but are in fact in opposition conceptually to one another. On the other hand, there are more alternative therapies such as crystal healing, where a practitioner may be (?) able advise you better according to your horoscopic constitution. There is also the possibility perhaps that astrology can complement one's step into therapy by helping you elect which dates, times and places would be most potent. But in so far as astrology being a therapy in and of itself, it just exposes what is. If that helps a person they may call it "therapy." Not everyone will.

Astrology is a very deep subject which can be misused, for example, by those involved in what one might term 'darker arts.' I would be sceptical about going to an unknown person claiming to heal by way of astrology, particularly when there exists hundreds of safer and, at least, as effective ways to obtain treatment. Not to mention that "astrological therapy" is virtually unheard of, making one highly susceptible to the personal and financial abuse of charlatans. I'd do something else.

Is there something particular that concerns you?
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Unread 06-20-2014, 05:22 AM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

Therapy to me means healing. Using astrology has helped me heal by making me more self-aware of what my needs are and my strengths and weaknesses. It's empowering to me. Right now I'm going through several tough aspects that's bringing up issues I thought were long gone and wish for an in depth analysis. But your right about other therapies Tesse. Been in conversation with a therapist who did astrotherapy but is now dealing with life threatening illness and using prayer/meditation very successfully.
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Unread 06-20-2014, 09:16 PM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

Well feel free to put your chart up, Moondancing. If you want to get into a really deep therapeutic relationship then I'd say that whether or not the therapist is a experienced and 'sorted' is the important thing - not whether or not she or he is a psychological astrologer. There are a few who are both, of course, but whether one of them works near you is another matter. Although it can be helpful to get a chart reading or find a good therapist, these things are probably only useful as catalysts for the deepening of self-communion, imo. Sometimes the mind conjures up ideals of situations and interactions which will allegedly make all the difference, but this can be a trick of the mind to distract us from self-communion (i.e. presence) because the mind might make all the right noises about wanting healing, but actually it wants to stay in control. Its a difficult balance to find, because we are all here on Earth to support one another, and its good to ask for help when we need it.
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Unread 06-21-2014, 01:52 AM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

Control is a good thing sometimes. There were times I was rash in opening certain doors in what turned into an unsafe environment and it set me back. This feels exposed even though one is quite anonymous here but I thought I'd put my toe in the water with a horary chart where I asked if I should go into therapy with Dr. P? He is a Dr. I worked with him many years ago. The underlying question is if therapy is what I need? Part of me doesn't want to go down that road again but I recognize my emotions are getting the better of me and there may be more work to do.

The Asc. is Libra with Venus in domicile in Taurus in the 8th house. I naturally have a positive attitude toward life but seriously challenged in the 8th dealing with powerful feelings. Venus makes a tight square to the Moon/Pluto midpoint at 26' 59 Aquarius describing strong feelings (jealousy, offended vanity or personal insults could be suspect.)

Co-ruler Moon is in Aries in the 6th house. Pisces on 6th cusp could show victimisation and desire to run away and hide but conflicts with Moon conj Uranus in Aries wanting to take action. Moon rules the 10th showing mother and ruler of 3rd Jupiter conj the MC. shows my sister. The pair can definitely bring up subconscious forces that angers me. Moon is applying a square aspect to Pluto, Saturn/Neptune midpoint conjunction. Yikes, how do I make the most of that one? Moon then moving to oppose Mars in the 12th.

Mars rules the 7th house signifying the therapist. The opposition could mean that therapy will not happen. Mar's last aspect was a square to Pluto, Saturn/Neptune midpoint which could show my lack of energy for pursuing and thriving in my creative energies which leave me feeling listless. Although I make sure to take long walks with my dog, she won't let me be listless about that activity.

There is more here and I welcome any feedback. Thanks miquar for encouraging me. It feels good to work through the chart.

Last edited by Moondancing; 06-21-2014 at 07:01 AM.
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Unread 06-21-2014, 05:03 AM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

Hi. I'm assuming this is a horary rather than a natal chart because Moon is in Aries square Pluto, which therefore must be in Cancer or Capricorn. And you don't seem old enough to have Pluto in Cancer. I don't know how to interpret a horary, but I'll keep watching the thread in case you decide to put up your natal chart.

Yes, you need to control the pace because you know what you're ready for. You can keep this control if you can find a non-intrusive therapist. Rogerian therapy (client-centred counselling) is non-intrusive, for example.
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Unread 06-22-2014, 12:04 AM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

I just want to throw a couple of things on the table for you, Moondancing, and you can leave or take them to explore.

I write these because you are expressing your concerns. The things we experience in life may be seen as two discrete parts, the external events and our reactivity to them. Astrology may show reasons for our reactivity but not always how to handle that reactivity. The latter may require a philosophy and a lifestyle change.

To get change or in attempts to escape self-limiting behaviours and perceptions, people often seek to recruit an external therapist. There is this idea that the mind is a machine which can be fixed by an external technician, if only we pay or find the right one. And so over time many psychological approaches have developed, because none really are the authority or have the answer. The problem lies in that no two brains/minds are the same nor will any two ever be the same. It is human nature to seek and that you seek is shown by the issues you are facing that are preventing you from experiencing peace. Yet the ability of the therapist to help is you is dependent on how developed they themselves are.

It is my experiential view that when seeking to find peace and self-control, these are fruits of the Spirit and it is best to work on developing a relationship with an internal eternally-wise and patient counselor. The problems may not be psychological but may only present themselves through this medium. Seeking the right counsel will ensure you deal with the cause rather than the result. It may be that you would benefit from getting in touch with your soul and being cleansed of worldly influence and its ability to keep you in bondage. But what you describe are spiritual concerns.

There is no doubt that meditation and prayer will help you immeasurably. How about also, however, educating yourself on how to become the best version of you that you can be? I dont know your spiritual persuasion. I am a Christian and know a couple of amazing Bible-based books, where the author is truly gifted in counseling you to meet with the Infinite intelligence so that you may yourself reap the fruits of the Spirit. I can recommend these that I have no doubt will assist you lots.

Elyse Fitzpatrick is a name you could research. I have read a few of her books that I've found excellent (but your could read amazon reviews):

Counsel From the Cross
Because He Loves Me
Women Helping Women (dont know if you are a wo/man?)
Overcoming Fear, Worry and Anxiety: Becoming a Woman of Faith and Confidence

I read the last book first. I loved it. It changed my life. But all her books have had that effect on me. They are all excellent.

If you are not interested in perusing through light Christian literature, these books are fab. If not, from what I hear there are lost of alternative methods too based on non-secular spirituality. I hear "The Power of Now" is an excellent resource. And I hear that Tao philosophy is too.

I apologise if none of this is of any help to you. If they turn out to be, at some point then great! I wish you all the best and will pray that you find the peace you seek.

Last edited by Tessie; 06-22-2014 at 02:48 AM.
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Unread 06-22-2014, 01:24 AM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

What a thoughtful and sensitive note, Tessie. Books are a powerful tool for healing. When I was a young teen I knew I was not well but promised myself to do whatever it took to be healthy and it would take a long time. Reading about people who overcame insurmountable odds to succeed were inspirational. And authors of books on spirituality and health such as you describe surprised me how truly caring they were for people who were suffering and I find it motivating.

Buddhism is a powerful tool. As a matter of fact I didn't know of Buddhism until I was in my 30's but I could recall coming to know some of their teachings when I was in my teens. When I was fourteen I was frightened to go outside by myself for fear someone would harm me. One day as I struggled with my desire to go out and my fear, a voice came to me and said, "your imagining your fear in your mind. It's not real, you have to go out and learn what is real." Huge teaching in Buddhism. I trusted the voice and went out and learned. It's true we have in us what we need.

Thank you Tessie and miquar and to this community of people who reach out and touch others in a meaningful way.
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Unread 06-22-2014, 03:11 AM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

Thanks, love!

Early in my experience, I thought that if I just prayed and meditated that was all I could do to mature spiritually. Books are a powerful tool, but not all books are powerful for healing. Some books, authors and, ultimately, philosophies will have you walking in circles. The ego will give the impression this is not so. It is important to choose mindfully the philosophy you subscribe to and then be selective about what you read: what you allow to programme you. The aim is not to feel good, though that may be a byproduct. It is to mature spiritually and that always takes some study and some growing pains.

It is good to be motivated by others. But remember that this or a therapist or a book are not substitutes for developing and establishing your own path of strength and virtue. Without wishing to sound patronising, at all, I sense you need guidance at this juncture, which is what makes you vulnerable. God, whatever lens you perceive this through, if at all, is a loving parent who is best able to guide you and help you along the way. If this is in some way your spiritual persuasion, I hope you will pursue this relationship by educating yourself about its dimensions and rather than be a passive spectator.

What we all have in common are problems. We all have different concerns. Anyone else's approach may not be applicable to you. God knows and He is always good.

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you" (Matt. 7:7)
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Unread 06-22-2014, 03:13 PM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

Let's see what comes of looking at the birth chart. The trouble started when transiting Mars conj natal Saturn in the 12th. I joined Facebook May 26 after my step-father asked me because he was writing more stories about what was going on in their life. Usually I stay away from Facebook because it can be an emotional minefield for me which is proving to be true. Unfortunately, Mars moved on to Progressed Saturn and Saturn/Neptune midpoint and Neptune. So emotional pain has been sticking around.

Mars then transits the 12th house so feelings of isolation and anger at my inability to confront wrongs done to me by family and siblings and anger at me for not dealing with issues when they happened. Mars will leave the 12th and move into Scorpio which might give me some relief.

Saturn is in my first house and I was quite surprised Saturn transiting through the 12th then over the Asc. and Sun has gone by without incident. I think I may be going through mourning with old memories cropping up.

Where I believe astrology can help to heal is through understanding. Even though it doesn't tell you what to do to heal, understanding the problem can lead one to instinctually know what is need to heal.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated and naturally I'm the one responsible for my choices. I'm female, btw.

P.S. I want to add that when Progressed Mars and Progressed Saturn were conj at the 12th house cusp in Aug. 1993, I moved from MI to SC leaving family. Even though I was isolating myself it was a time of me learning to be self-sufficient. I built my own business and have done well relying on my own resources.
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Unread 06-22-2014, 04:03 PM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

The past two years are similar to the period of 1974-76.

Similar in the way you has experienced that period, not by events

this is unrepeatable experience ever again in a person's life

Astrology is not a therapeutic discipline, already advisory discipline
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Unread 06-22-2014, 06:59 PM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

I'm not really sure what you're asking, Moondance. The Virgo Scorpio emphasis, plus the Sun Moon square with Chiron on the Sun/Moon midpoint probably say a great deal about whatever you're going through. And looking to wider aspects, the Moon Pluto opposition across the meridian axis.

I think that the best way to use astrology to shed light on your issues would be for you to say something about your problems, and for people on the forum to try to point out the significators of these problems in the birth chart. Looking at progressions straight away and with no background info is unlikely to yield much insight for you.
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Unread 06-22-2014, 07:58 PM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

I've thought of the Sun/Moon midpoint conj Chiron to mean 'bring light to the subconscious to heal'. Need to keep that in mind. Thank you.
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Unread 06-22-2014, 10:10 PM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

It can also mean a deeply wounded self-image. The features of your chart that I mentioned in my last post are the ones that jumped out at me as being likely significators of psychological dis-ease. I'm not sure what else to say without knowing something about your difficulties. But perhaps you don't feel able to take the thread in that direction?
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Unread 06-23-2014, 01:44 AM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

miquar, ok, what I hear you saying is that I'm reacting from a position of low self-worth not necessarily mourning from old memories. That make me see the situation in a whole new light. Mourning from old memories is more acceptable. I once asked my therapist how can you change and she said to figure out what you are getting from acting in a particular manner.

So I need decide. What I'm getting from acting from a position of low self-esteem? I don't have to face and confront my fears and power. That all makes sense and is doable.

Don't know what more you can say either, miquar. Thank you.

Last edited by Moondancing; 06-23-2014 at 02:11 AM.
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Unread 06-23-2014, 07:00 AM
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Re: Therapy and astrology

Hi. Because we each experience ourselves as separate from the rest of life, we feel a sense of lack. We seek out experiences which alleviate the sense of lack. The birth chart shows how this sense of lack will tend to manifest in the experiential life of the native.

As we go through life, we each develop a story of who we are, and this story arises from a combination of what is encountered in the outer environment, and the innate predisposition. And so you have all these memories which seem very relevant to your current situation because you are still adding more narrative to the same story. Part of you perhaps believes that this story is the only one you can play out in life - another part of you perhaps believes that if you try hard enough, you can one bring the story to a happy ending.

So perhaps what you are getting from acting in a particular manner is that you are trying to create that happy ending so that you can redeem your life without letting go of your sense of identity. But it is identifying ourselves as ' this particular separate individual' that gives rise to the sense of lack, and which provides a platform for a story of the self, which will always be a story of frustration because separateness and a sense of lack are married together.

But between the thoughts and feelings through which the story is relived and added to, there is pure awareness. Consequently, we have a choice to step outside of the story of lack and experience life directly. Obviously we don't need astrology to help us to do this, but it does raise those pertinent questions that I mentioned earlier in the thread.

So for example, your Sun Moon Chiron configuration may raise a question like, "Are my feelings of being flawed something I need to grapple with, or can I just witness those feelings from a place of stillness?"

Just as a priest is supposed to be a bridge between the individual and God, so the therapist can be a bridge between the client as they experience themselves to the truth of the client's boundless completeness. But we don't necessarily need a priest or therapist to help us reconnect with life. And astrology can be very dangerous in this respect because the birth chart reflects, and so potentially reinforces, the story that the individual feels caught up in.
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  #22  
Unread 06-23-2014, 08:42 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Therapy and astrology

Moondancing wrote:

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Where I believe astrology can help to heal is through understanding. Even though it doesn't tell you what to do to heal, understanding the problem can lead one to instinctually know what is need to heal.
Quote:
I once asked my therapist how can you change and she said to figure out what you are getting from acting in a particular manner.

So I need decide. What I'm getting from acting from a position of low self-esteem? I don't have to face and confront my fears and power.
Hi,
I am answering from an astrological perspective only.

Although it's not possible to physically go back and relive or change the past, it IS possible to change how one emotionally/mentally relates to it. This entails gripping the meaning behind Moon and Mercury in their respective aspects. This understanding can be an enormous breakthrough in the inner healing process.

How one deals with manifestational circumstances sees an association with Saturn; how one confronts the inner pain they inflict sees an association with Chiron. There can be no inner healing without this confrontation. Yet once the courage is found to do this (Mars), the past and its effect is seen for what it was (Saturn/Capricorn). It can be shattered by alternate insights and the breakthrough occurs (Uranus), the past is released (Neptune) doing no further inner damage, whereby the power of transforming (Pluto) one's self can begin.

A difficulty with the natal chart shown is the content in fixed signs led by Scorpio. Wallowing and being sucked under in the mire of how one perceives one's circumstances is an understatement. Yet there is a rope that can pull one out of it; the same Scorpio. It's just a questioin of placing the power of one's Self ABOVE the power of ones feelings. Higher self esteem rather than lower esteem as was cultivated through what others did; the difference between allowing and living though the Moon rather than the Sun.
It might be worth considering what significant events occured around 1998/99 and the impact undergone when all the personal secondary progressed planets harshly aspected the natal chart, ending with s.p. Sun conjunct Chiron. did that see an implosion rather than explosion?

At this time, S.p. Moon is sojourning in its most stabilising position in Taurus. Maybe it will check its feelings through looking at facts? S.p. Mercury is out of the fuzzy introspective haze with natal Neptune and is now trining the transformer in natal Pluto, s.p. Venus is positively applying towards Jupiter, and s.p. Sun in structural Capricorn is within orb of its sextile to itself. S.p. Sun will have been within orb of the transiting grand cross in the cardinal signs during April, so it would seem that this effect will hardly go unnoticed, energising the necessary push towards positive change. According to which house system is used, transiting Chiron is leaving its long soujourn in the 4th house to enter the 5th.

The astrological symbolism tells the story and provides the theme; how it all works out is up to you.
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  #23  
Unread 06-24-2014, 02:55 PM
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Moondancing Moondancing is offline
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Re: Therapy and astrology

miquar, when I first read your interpretation of Sun/Moon/Chiron as low self-worth, instantly I wanted to write and explain how I had good self-esteem. But, I kept going back to the horary chart I posted earlier and seeing the jealousy, offended vanity and personal insults centering around my mother and sister, I couldn't make my words make sense. It was like trying to tell myself 2 + 2=5.

When I realized facts were facts I was overwhelmed with the feeling that it was determined by the stars that this was my lot in life. But I like your question "can I just witness those feelings from a place of stillness?" Yes! Furthermore, when I'm in the moment I don't have good or bad self-esteem. So even though I can see the danger of labeling a problem, I didn't want to see it and remained in pain. Only by labeling and analyzing the problems could I then say "Oh, it's that familiar pain again! I know what to do, let it pass like clouds in the sky." And catch the tell tale signs a little quicker. :-)

Thanks to all for your insights and ideas!

In patience with herself, her family and the world,

Deborah
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  #24  
Unread 06-24-2014, 09:26 PM
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miquar miquar is offline
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Re: Therapy and astrology

Hi. Yes its an important point you make that when in a state of presence, there is no sense of low self-esteem and no sense of high self-esteem - even though difficult thoughts and feelings may still pass through awareness. And so having a strong Chiron may be someone's lot in life, but a sense of being a flawed/wounded/victimised/resentful individual is something that can be either carried indefinitely or left behind.
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True freedom and the end of suffering is living in such a way as if you had completely chosen whatever you feel or experience at this moment.

Eckhart Tolle, Stillness Speaks, page 118
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  #25  
Unread 06-24-2014, 10:56 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Therapy and astrology

OK.... I'm very late to this party, since I've not posted anything since june 12.

Are you talking about Counseling Astrology? IMO, others may disagree, Counseling Astrologers really need training in astrology as well as professional training in counseling(preferably at least a Masters degree in counseling psychology or related counseling area).

Since I have both sets of credentials, I have actually done those things, and even here on this forum. Its a long process on-line since it requires the client to give feed back to the process before moving forward with each step. Except for one person here, I have never found anyone who could continue with the process, since it requires continuous willingness to introspect and look for ways to change.

T-Squares like yours seem to bring this out, due to the difficult oppositions involved.

If you should want my response, please clarify.
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