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Unread 02-21-2017, 10:38 AM
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Saturn in 12th house

Does anyone have Saturn in 12th natally?

How does this effect your personality? Do you find yourself to be very reserved? Depressed? Anxious? Guilty? Despite any other more outgoing placements/aspects?

Do you feel like your life is a perpetual dark night of the soul? Like you can't quite reach that mystical experience you might yearn for?

I would love to hear experiences from anybody who has this placement, plus any others aspects/placement that might modify how you experience it.

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Unread 02-21-2017, 11:22 AM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

FYI

I have this placement and even now, here on this forum I can feel it. The sense of isolation, the "you're on your own here" kind of energy. No replies to any of my threads or queries.

Interesting.
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Unread 02-21-2017, 04:13 PM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

this morning I have been looking all over for 12th house saturn/sun threads online. and you posted this thread today, we aren't alone after all

I have capricorn sun and aquarius saturn in the 12th. those are my only 12th house planets (everything else is capricorn in the 11th - and a gemini moon in the 3rd)

the discontinuity between my capricorn need for admiration and the 12th hs appreciation for solitude is really conflicting at this time in my life (mid twenties). saturn is ruled by capricorn, as well. I don't like using social media, and at times feel like I am experiencing agoraphobia ... not that I fear crowds, I would just prefer to be somewhere alone or with one other person/a small group.

I just read this about saturn in the 12th : "so if you have this placement try to be honest to yourself about your life route. Do you really enjoy your seclusion? Do you really want to get rid of your fears, or are they a comfortable excuse to continue your anti-social patterns? Being a solitary person is not something negative by itself; yet experiencing the burden of self-martyrdom is not the wisest choice." Lol! except, like I mentioned, I don't 'fear' socializing... I just find it much more rewarding to go deep with one or a few people who really 'get' me (Aquarius rising). I've been perceived as shy most my life, which I wouldn't disagree with but I mostly feel like I'm conserving my social energy, I have empathic perception and it can be wearing on me to spread myself thin through socializing. I sound like such a grinch! at parties you will find me in the corner giving astrology readings. I also get really turned off by people who aggressively try to be my friend, especially coworkers, I feel that I simply need just a few friends. it's hard to have more than 3-4 at a time and commit to them, or find people who understand me on the deep level of connection I desire.

we must have a lot of karmic debt or something with saturn here?? since saturn represents karma and the 12th culmination of karma. my saturn is well aspected, at least. I have a bQ, two semi-sextiles and a trine to my mercury. I had someone tell me that I've had many lives as a woman with many people dependent on me and in this life i'm like F off! mama needs to meditate!

Last edited by jangle; 02-21-2017 at 04:45 PM.
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Unread 02-21-2017, 08:15 PM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyri View Post
When you consider that Saturn rules the 10th house, a place of the Mother's influence and standing, the nurturing effects early in the formative years we integrate she offers us to become whole individuals, as the Mother helps us indwell to aid us to create attitude's of love and emotional strength that help us face the world we would emerge in, then we may think upon the aspects from Saturn to other planets as well to consider distance relationships the sign Capricorn (ruler of destiny) will have in proximity to the other houses and signs within the map..as to why we shouldn't have to consider very hard why Saturn joys in the 12th house? It is a place where fine metals are developed from the elimination of un-needed dross.

The subject matter generally ruled of Saturn as an ambassador of the 10th being sent here, the understanding is that some prior karma sent the individual, (a self awareness house) indwelling in the sector of pondering and circumspection. Think of the house as a chrysalis which contains the butterfly before emerging into the light to once again rise to gather experiences in a new form. Where upon your other houses in your chart reside the dwellings of Capricorn and Aquarius in your map? Consider the new sign there as=a blend, of a tool that helps you dawn a different cloak of expression for that house or as some new drape of element/sign upon the 10th and 11th house with the place where Capricorn or Aquarius now dwells within the map. There is most generally why you will note why Saturn is within the 12th house.

For example with Capricorn on the 10th house and Saturn within the 12th the Mother image in your life must undergo many situations of readjustments of thinking and activity/planning on your part, she might (Mother) will be your hidden source of strength or a power which helps you to overcome much guilt that needs to be worked on. In a more sorrowful way you may suffer some secret losses by her you must learn to reconcile within the life span you are experiencing now.

Here Saturn (the Mother image of authority, career attributes best suited for..a house of polished attributes of character.. etc) will give you the best opportunities to work upon developing emerging acumen that help you achieve the process of becoming a finer being of expression. Saturn in Pisces might be an inherited physical attribute of a club foot with congenital difficulties emerging or stemming from the maternal side of the family. Water signs would be sources of aid to understanding the reasons and areas in the map-of your guilt sources, as well squaring and opposing signs and planets, for with great struggles develop greatness. You've heard the old adage, "adversity develops character." These water houses would serve as a limiting avenue or a source of redemption areas=activities that would ease the concentrated physical strife of the malady.

It is an understanding of the blending of powers in the chart that tells us why we have Saturn in the 12th.

All the best

Vyri
Thank you for your very thoughtful reply Vyri

I shall ponder on what you wrote...

Would you mind helping me try to synthesize this Saturn placement with the rest of my chart?

Here's my chart:
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Unread 02-21-2017, 08:37 PM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

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Originally Posted by jangle View Post
this morning I have been looking all over for 12th house saturn/sun threads online. and you posted this thread today, we aren't alone after all

I have capricorn sun and aquarius saturn in the 12th. those are my only 12th house planets (everything else is capricorn in the 11th - and a gemini moon in the 3rd)

the discontinuity between my capricorn need for admiration and the 12th hs appreciation for solitude is really conflicting at this time in my life (mid twenties). saturn is ruled by capricorn, as well. I don't like using social media, and at times feel like I am experiencing agoraphobia ...not that I fear crowds, I would just prefer to be somewhere alone or with one other person/a small group.

I just read this about saturn in the 12th : "so if you have this placement try to be honest to yourself about your life route. Do you really enjoy your seclusion? Do you really want to get rid of your fears, or are they a comfortable excuse to continue your anti-social patterns? Being a solitary person is not something negative by itself; yet experiencing the burden of self-martyrdom is not the wisest choice." Lol! except, like I mentioned, I don't 'fear' socializing... I just find it much more rewarding to go deep with one or a few people who really 'get' me (Aquarius rising). I've been perceived as shy most my life, which I wouldn't disagree with but I mostly feel like I'm conserving my social energy, I have empathic perception and it can be wearing on me to spread myself thin through socializing. I sound like such a grinch! at parties you will find me in the corner giving astrology readings. I also get really turned off by people who aggressively try to be my friend, especially coworkers, I feel that I simply need just a few friends. it's hard to have more than 3-4 at a time and commit to them, or find people who understand me on the deep level of connection I desire.

we must have a lot of karmic debt or something with saturn here?? since saturn represents karma and the 12th culmination of karma. my saturn is well aspected, at least. I have a bQ, two semi-sextiles and a trine to my mercury. I had someone tell me that I've had many lives as a woman with many people dependent on me and in this life i'm like F off! mama needs to meditate!
Hi Jangle

Yay for synchronicity! Thank you for sharing your experiences...

Check...Same here, I don't have facebook, instagram and all of that LOL


Yup same here


Yup exactly how I feel...


Yes yes!

Again, same here...


Wow we have so many similarities...I wouldn't say I'm anti-social, or that I don't want to face my fears, I just get very easily overwhelmed by constant social interaction. I need solitary time to reflect and sort through feelings and impressions etc. My Saturn also has some easy aspects, a trine to Moon, sextile to Venus and conjunct mercury (don't know if that one is easy actually hehe)

But it also squares Neptune and my MC...Perhaps this is why I still can't for the life of me figure out what I want to do career wise? Or what my soul purpose is?

I also wondered alot about the karmic debt thing, maybe that's the reason for all the nebulous guilt? Do you have any retrograde planets? All of mine are direct...

I do feel that in this life, many people are dependent on me and are clawing me in so many directions, and yes sometimes I wanna shout "f-off Mama needs to meditate!" LOL

But alas, that guilt just won't have any of it
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Unread 02-21-2017, 10:26 PM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

All my planets are direct - except for Jupiter ... I have never looked into the implications of retrograde vs direct planets, do you have insight there?

I have a similar career problem, I am a creative person but I also crave power and respect with all that capricorn in me, also my pluto is in the 8th house so that's pretty power hungry as well. right now, I work in a position that I know is below my skill level and involves zero creativity - but it is steady and reliable so it suits me for now...I feel like there is no way I will ever have the career of my dreams because it's impossible - what a poor outlook! It's like I'm always waiting for my 'big break' but not taking the steps to get there. My Jupiter is square my moon and venus - I think this can lead to laziness!! laziness is certainly my biggest fault. maybe having Jupiter retrograde also affects this???

people say 12th hs folks do well 'behind the scenes', do you relate to that at all? I definitely do. I'd love to be a creative director.
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Unread 02-21-2017, 10:41 PM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Saturn is in its joy in the 12th house.
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Unread 02-21-2017, 10:59 PM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomsInPlace View Post

Does anyone have Saturn in 12th natally?

How does this effect your personality? Do you find yourself to be very reserved? Depressed? Anxious? Guilty? Despite any other more outgoing placements/aspects?

Do you feel like your life is a perpetual dark night of the soul? Like you can't quite reach that mystical experience you might yearn for?

I would love to hear experiences from anybody who has this placement, plus any others aspects/placement that might modify how you experience it.

SATURN IN 12TH NATAL HOUSE a previous discussion thread

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ghlight=saturn
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Unread 02-22-2017, 12:38 AM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Whilst looking back on some of the text sent originally I thought it best to bring a little more clarity of syntax and understanding to Saturn's strength of interpretation.


Quote:
When you consider that Saturn rules the 10th house, a place of the Mother's influence and standing, it bears witness and testimony of the responsibility she must take in the nurturing effects early in the formative years-we learn to integrate Saturn’s best lessons by the Mother’s care Saturn rules. She as lord of the 10th offers to us the ability to become whole individuals, these are just a few of the lessons that Saturn (one of the signets ruling the Mother) helps us with. Here lessons indwell in us to aid us to create attitudes of love and emotional strength that help us face the world we would merge into successfully. Considering these gifts Saturn infuses in us we may also think upon the aspects/energies to Saturn from other planets/signs forming with her by way of proximity from her; the trine, sextile, opposition, square. These energies of the signs on different houses influence us by creating elements of relationship triads, or triplicities. For instance the sign Capricorn (ruler of destiny) will have a solid form or a foundational earth effect to to other houses and signs within the map whom associate in harmony i.e., water and earth, as lets say the sign Taurus has being in affinity with Capricorn. The sign having the lord Venus as its ambassador will be strengthened by Capricorn as earth on the 10th. (the 10th to the 2nd forms a trine, money earned from the career) It is Saturn in the 12th house that tells we must work on the issue of wholeness of foundations in our lives as the earth is akin to referencing compact ground covering or rock to walk on, to steady us in our continued growth or journey in the life. It is no wonder then why Saturn joys in the 12th house, it is a place of weaknesses that need solidifying steadying, and constant reappraisal. (Saturn rules the skeleton, the spine, and aids the formation strength of the flesh, Venus) It is a place where fine metals are developed from the elimination of un-needed dross, Saturn then joys in the area where Pisces resides. Saturn will guide the nebulous Neptune and Jupiter mind to circumspection and discipline, strengthing them in resolve.
All the best

Vyri

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Unread 02-22-2017, 12:54 AM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomsInPlace View Post
Wow we have so many similarities...I wouldn't say I'm anti-social, or that I don't want to face my fears, I just get very easily overwhelmed by constant social interaction. I need solitary time to reflect and sort through feelings and impressions etc.
I wouldn't blame this all on Saturn in the 12th! There's many forces at work here and it takes the whole natal chart to piece it all together. For example you have Moon in the 8th opposing Mars. Also Mercury square Neptune. These other energies will have an impact on this as well!
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by jangle View Post
All my planets are direct - except for Jupiter ... I have never looked into the implications of retrograde vs direct planets, do you have insight there?

I have a similar career problem, I am a creative person but I also crave power and respect with all that capricorn in me, also my pluto is in the 8th house so that's pretty power hungry as well. right now, I work in a position that I know is below my skill level and involves zero creativity - but it is steady and reliable so it suits me for now...I feel like there is no way I will ever have the career of my dreams because it's impossible - what a poor outlook! It's like I'm always waiting for my 'big break' but not taking the steps to get there. My Jupiter is square my moon and venus - I think this can lead to laziness!! laziness is certainly my biggest fault. maybe having Jupiter retrograde also affects this???

people say 12th hs folks do well 'behind the scenes', do you relate to that at all? I definitely do. I'd love to be a creative director.
Hi Jangle!

Thank you for your reply

Yes, I am inclined to be creative too (Write music, sing, paint etc) but with Capricorn on my 5th cusp, I tend to be somewhat serious about it, I feel like it needs to serve a purpose larger than just "having fun" LOL (what a drag!) Moon in 8th here, so I'm not particularily power hungry, but definately need substance, depth and to feel like I'm making a "powerful" difference I guess

I know what you mean about waiting for that big break and not taking the steps to get there...Jupiter is the apex of a T-square with Mars opposite Moon in my chart...So it's like I'll take the steps and then chicken out at the last minute...

Perfect example: I was offered a record contract a fews years ago, I went to the meetings etc and then turned it down. Part of the reason being, I felt like my duty as a mother would conflict with being a musician (Capricorn on the 5th?) but also because of terrible stage fright LOL. (did someone say "behind the scenes"?)

Retrograde planets...From what I have gathered, some systems of thought say that retrograde planets are karmic, in that the energies are turned inwards so that we may better learn how to utilize them or get to know them. I wonder if anyone here has some more in depth, experiential input on the subject of retros?

What house/sign is your Jupiter in?

Last edited by AtomsInPlace; 02-22-2017 at 08:06 AM.
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
I wouldn't blame this all on Saturn in the 12th! There's many forces at work here and it takes the whole natal chart to piece it all together. For example you have Moon in the 8th opposing Mars. Also Mercury square Neptune. These other energies will have an impact on this as well!
Hi StillOne

Yes you are absolutely right!

I'm trying to synthesize this Saturn stuff with the rest of the chart. That Mercury square Neptune (with Neptune also squaring Saturn) can be a bit of a bugger...Clouding my thinking and making it difficult to see myself clearly...

Also, I'm trying to understand t-squares...Do you subsribe to the theory that one must use the "missing" leg (the house/sign opposite the apex) to find balance and get the best out of a t-square?

Thank you for taking the time to respond StillOne...'Tis very much appreciated
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Unread 02-22-2017, 08:03 AM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

SATURN IN 12TH NATAL HOUSE a previous discussion thread

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ghlight=saturn
Thank you JUPITERASC

I shall peruse...
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Unread 02-22-2017, 08:16 AM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomsInPlace View Post
Hi Jangle!

Thank you for your reply

Yes, I am inclined to be creative too (Write music, sing, paint etc) but with Capricorn on my 5th cusp, I tend to be somewhat serious about it, I feel like it needs to serve a purpose larger than just "having fun" LOL (what a drag!) Moon in 8th here, so I'm not particularily power hungry, but definately need substance, depth and to feel like I'm making a "powerful" difference I guess

I know what you mean about waiting for that big break and not taking the steps to get there...Jupiter is the apex of a T-square with Mars opposite Moon in my chart...So it's like I'll take the steps and then chicken out at the last minute...

Perfect example: I was offered a record contract a fews years ago, I went to the meetings etc and then turned it down. Part of the reason being, I felt like my duty as a mother would conflict with being a musician (Capricorn on the 5th?) but also because of terrible stage fright LOL.

Retrograde planets...
From what I have gathered,

some systems of thought say that retrograde planets are karmic,
in that the energies are turned inwards
so that we may better learn how to utilize them
or get to know them.
I wonder if anyone here has some more in depth,
experiential input on the subject of retros?

A retrograde planet is no more "karmic" than a Direct planet

obviously everyone has their own personal opinion on this matter
HOWEVER
the fact is that

the word "Karma" is a SANSKRIT word that simply means "Action"
and
since actions have consequences
so
the term karma connects actions and results



Karma = Action

There are three BASIC types:

PHYSICAL action
VERBAL action
MENTAL action.

Every action leaves an imprint


Physical actions may produce tangible residue

whereas
verbal and mental karma create intangible imprints.


Analyze the trail of any karma
and one may be surprised

how it may wane
but

never gets destroyed completely
It is the residue of each karma that conditions one








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Last edited by JUPITERASC; 02-22-2017 at 08:18 AM.
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomsInPlace View Post

Hi StillOne

Yes you are absolutely right!

I'm trying to synthesize this Saturn stuff with the rest of the chart. That Mercury square Neptune (with Neptune also squaring Saturn) can be a bit of a bugger...Clouding my thinking and making it difficult to see myself clearly...

Also, I'm trying to understand t-squares...

Do you subsribe to the theory that one must use the "missing" leg
(the house/sign opposite the apex)
to find balance and get the best out of a t-square?


Thank you for taking the time to respond StillOne...'Tis very much appreciated
AN INTRODUCTION TO ASPECTS AND CHART SHAPING IN NATAL ASTROLOGY
by Nicolas Campion

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html





'T' SQUARE:

Two planets in opposition are both in square to a third planet.
This brings tension and sharp, pressing problems,
the result of which may be great energy
and consequently a better than average chance of success throughout life.

When interpreting a T' Square all the factors involved
- planets, signs and houses
- must be taken separately
and then built up into a picture of the choices, difficulties
and solutions which each planet suggests.

When the 'T' Square is in:

Cardinal Signs
, there is exceptional dynamism and energy;

Fixed Signs, people may be excessively stubborn,
fighting personal battles to the bitter end.

Mutable Signs, they may try to solve,
or even avoid,
the problems associated with the 'T' Square
by being flexible and adaptable.
__________________
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
A retrograde planet is no more "karmic" than a Direct planet

obviously everyone has their own personal opinion on this matter
HOWEVER
the fact is that

the word "Karma" is a SANSKRIT word that simply means "Action"
and
since actions have consequences
so
the term karma connects actions and results



Karma = Action

There are three BASIC types:

PHYSICAL action
VERBAL action
MENTAL action.

Every action leaves an imprint


Physical actions may produce tangible residue

whereas
verbal and mental karma create intangible imprints.


Analyze the trail of any karma
and one may be surprised

how it may wane
but

never gets destroyed completely
It is the residue of each karma that conditions one








I personally agree with the meaning of karma being action. I've always had a problem with people interpreting karma as some kind of cosmic punishment.

Thank you for the picture, I LOL'ed
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomsInPlace View Post

I personally agree with the meaning of karma being action.
I've always had a problem with people interpreting karma
as some kind of cosmic punishment.


Thank you for the picture, I LOL'ed
It's as ridiculous as claiming that one has free will despite
"being created" by some cosmic omnipotent deity
who then forces one to plead with said deity for ones salvation

it's very simple

personal total freedom of action without consequences is a pipe-dream




even if














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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
It's as ridiculous as claiming that one has free will despite
"being created" by some cosmic omnipotent deity
who then forces one to plead with said deity for ones salvation

it's very simple

personal total freedom of action without consequences is a pipe-dream




even if
















Yes very true...
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Another thing I've noticed with Saturn in 12th, especially with Neptune squaring both Mercury and Saturn is that alcohol is BAAAAAD

I have to abstain completely from it...It seems to induce some kind of weird psychosis in me. Anyone else experience this? In yourself or others with similar placements?
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JUPITERASC (02-22-2017)
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Unread 02-22-2017, 10:23 PM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

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Originally Posted by AtomsInPlace View Post

What house/sign is your Jupiter in?
It's in the 7th hs, Virgo.
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Unread 02-22-2017, 10:52 PM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

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Originally Posted by AtomsInPlace View Post

Another thing I've noticed with Saturn in 12th, especially with Neptune squaring both Mercury and Saturn
is that alcohol is BAAAAAD


I have to abstain completely from it...
It seems to induce some kind of weird psychosis in me.
Anyone else experience this? In yourself
or others with similar placements?

No kidding.... Siriusly


ALCOHOL is socially acceptable
and freely available
therefore a common source of multiple disaster


ALCOHOL is an addictive drug with serious withdrawal symptoms










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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Unread 02-23-2017, 09:08 AM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
No kidding.... Siriusly


ALCOHOL is socially acceptable
and freely available
therefore a common source of multiple disaster


ALCOHOL is an addictive drug with serious withdrawal symptoms





A rather insidious poison...



Last edited by AtomsInPlace; 02-23-2017 at 09:58 AM.
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Unread 02-24-2017, 12:03 AM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

I have Saturn in the 12th. I haven't been posting much but felt like commenting here after reading a new book that I got. The book is "The Astrologers Handbook" by Sakoian & Acker. This book was actually recommended, in a round about way, by another forum member (Piercethevale).

So far I'm impressed with the book. It's easily one that I will keep amongst my, now, rather extensive library of astrological texts. The interpretations I've read, thus far, have been highly accurate, comparatively speaking.

When I first read the op in this thread I was a bit reluctant to comment fully as there's quite a few Saturn in the 12th threads already... and why keep commenting anew? However, after reading the interpretation in this new book and reflecting on it I figured I would include this information.

Copy this asap since mods will likely delete the information due to forum rules.

Quote:
Saturn in the 12th house indicates that much time will be spent in seclusion or working behind the scenes in such large institutions as hospitals, universities, corporations, and government agencies. Work may be carried out in psychology or in charitable institutions. This position makes it hard to obtain recognition, unless Saturn makes favorable aspects to the Tenth House or to the ruler of that house.

Saturn afflicted in the Twelfth House means loneliness and depression. If it's badly afflicted, there can be mental illness and confinement in hospitals, prisons, or other places of detention. An afflicted Saturn here often gives secret enemies who contribute to the native's downfall. However, in many cases these enemies are more imaginary than real.

People with this position need to get away from their own psychological problems by serving others and by energizing themselves in practical, constructive work.
Saturn joys? My ***...
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Unread 02-24-2017, 12:02 PM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
I have Saturn in the 12th. I haven't been posting much but felt like commenting here after reading a new book that I got. The book is "The Astrologers Handbook" by Sakoian & Acker. This book was actually recommended, in a round about way, by another forum member (Piercethevale).

So far I'm impressed with the book. It's easily one that I will keep amongst my, now, rather extensive library of astrological texts. The interpretations I've read, thus far, have been highly accurate, comparatively speaking.

When I first read the op in this thread I was a bit reluctant to comment fully as there's quite a few Saturn in the 12th threads already... and why keep commenting anew? However, after reading the interpretation in this new book and reflecting on it I figured I would include this information.

Copy this asap since mods will likely delete the information due to forum rules.
Quote:
Saturn in the 12th house indicates that much time will be spent in seclusion or working behind the scenes in such large institutions as hospitals, universities, corporations, and government agencies. Work may be carried out in psychology or in charitable institutions. This position makes it hard to obtain recognition, unless Saturn makes favorable aspects to the Tenth House or to the ruler of that house.

Saturn afflicted in the Twelfth House means loneliness and depression. If it's badly afflicted, there can be mental illness and confinement in hospitals, prisons, or other places of detention. An afflicted Saturn here often gives secret enemies who contribute to the native's downfall. However, in many cases these enemies are more imaginary than real.

People with this position need to get away from their own psychological problems by serving others and by energizing themselves in practical, constructive work.


Saturn joys? My ***...
Nothing new under the sun

The 12th house represents matters that are hidden, restrained, secret
incapable of action or of being fully understood.
Traditionally it is a wholly unfortunate house, associated with sad events
sorrow, anguish of mind, tribulation, captivity, imprisonment
persecution, hard labour, all manner of affliction and self-undoing.
It represents places that are denied access to public view
particularly those concerned with seclusion or isolation
or where one is restricted from living a carefree life-style
such as institutions or prisons HOUSES TEMPLES OF THE SKY by Deborah Houlding

Many sources attribute monasteries to the 12th house as places of isolation
but otherwise monks and nuns belong to the 9th house
which represents religious concerns.

12th House has rulership over scandals generally
personal fears and skeletons in the family closet.
12th House significations include secret, unknown enemies
such men as maliciously undermine their neighbours
or inform secretly against them: traitors, spies
weakness, infirmity and bondage
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h12.html
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Unread 02-24-2017, 12:38 PM
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Re: Saturn in 12th house

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post

I wouldn't blame this all on Saturn in the 12th!

There's many forces at work here
and

it takes the whole natal chart to piece it all together.


For example you have Moon in the 8th opposing Mars.
Also Mercury square Neptune.
These other energies will have an impact on this as well!
Quite

and yet
Moon travels fast
visiting each SIGN for two and a half days moonthly aka monthly

and therefore Moon opposes Mars once every month

furthermore
Mercury
requires only 88 days to orbit the sun once
and so orbits the Sun slightly over four times per year
visiting EACH SIGN four times per year

therefore Mercury squares not only Neptune eight times per year, minimum
but also every other planet eight times yearly as well

so these two aspects are common
the variation is in which SIGN the aspect is located
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomsInPlace View Post

Hi StillOne

Yes you are absolutely right!

I'm trying to synthesize this Saturn stuff with the rest of the chart.

That Mercury square Neptune
(with Neptune also squaring Saturn)
can be a bit of a bugger

...Clouding my thinking and making it difficult to see myself clearly...

To be realistic then
even if considering solely ONLY those who have Mercury square Neptune
it seems that three quarters plus of the world population
"are clouded with their thinking
finding it difficult to see themselves clearly"

curiouser and curiouser


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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