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  #101  
Unread 02-19-2019, 03:56 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

How is that the chart matters so much, if transits also affect people, synastry with people you meet also affects you. There may be people born at the same time and place of some of the people given as examples, but the former couldn't develop as much intellectual abilities as their astro twins.

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  #102  
Unread 02-19-2019, 03:58 AM
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I think this is the main reason I even got into astrology and joined this site. I was trying to find some tool to understand what the hell was wrong with me...I have my Mars in my 1st house too so there should be some action orientation but with it being ruled by Mercury, I think Mercury's energy took over for a while, tho I've thankfully broken out of that cycle of stagnation, being stuck in my mind or worse, another planet altogether

I have the infamous Cancer mercury, but I hope it being in my 11th house gives me some more Uranian edge
That opposition is a trip and I often question my own sanity, but then again, I have beliefs that make it to where I'm very comfortable living outside the box mentally since I believe 'the box' shouldn't even exist. That must be the Uranus influence, but I think Neptune also has an influence there
I know this well. That is the reason I have a love-hate relationship with Neptune. Music is something I love, it's an important part of my daily life and one of the few good things I have in my life, probably the only "soul" food I have anymore. Even the music I like gives a mix of Neptunian and Plutonian vibes.
So I can't deny Neptune's magic.
It makes me sad that its negative qualities seem to override ita positive just because of its confusion and passivity. It's truly important that you have figured this out. Mars in 1st H is definately helpful because it's Aries house it naturally rules.

Mars in 12th H or Pisces IS SUPER HARD.

Thank you for the boost. It wasn't until recently I gain any confidence in my mind. I grew up looking down on myself because I knew the way my mind functioned was very different and at stark odds with conventionality. I assumed it meant I was wrong, inferior, and stupid

Feeling alienated is a classic with Uranus. But feeling inferior is your Neptune's fault.

I am not able to find it, it's been a long time since I read it but it was somewhere online (not a forum, an astrology page) saying that the best Mercury signs ate Aqua and Cancer along with Gemini and Virgo. I didn't find it surprising for Aqua at all actually but I was surprised to read that for Mercury in Cancer.

The problem is that majority of people I know with Mercury in Cancer have the Neptune opposition and maybe the Uranus one but it's always way wider.

I don't think Cancer Mercury is bad by any means, I just thing that Air signs, Virgo, Scorpio Mercury are even better, then comes Cancer for me. So I would say Cancer Mercury is more than average but I wad surprised it was chosen as one of the best Mercury signs.
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  #103  
Unread 02-19-2019, 04:00 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Venus/Pluto/Chiron in the 9th? In Sagittarius ?
Aries Jupiter in 1st?
Pisces Moon in 12th house juxtaposed with Aries ASC?
Sun conjunct Mercury?
Sun square Jupiter?

Oh. Makes total sense.
What makes sense?
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  #104  
Unread 02-19-2019, 04:01 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
@ love-thinking

I remain agnostic to all generalizations as they don't fit every chart. So when someone says something like what you do, it goes in my mind and stays there until I have sufficient evidence to accept it with caveats, or forget it as a personal fancy of the individual.

IQ is a structured system of measuring intellect. It's a logical leap to find the people who are seen to have a high IQ are those who have an aspect in their chart which indicates "measured intellect". You can't measure the brilliance of Uranus since it follows no structure.

Relax. I have zero interest in stalking you.
You provided four people that you would say are smart. I have a thread up about intelligence with sources from Parashara/rishis and people with high iqs up (a whole bunch of them) with a mercury in aspect to saturn. In vedic astrology, mercury and saturn like eachother and they both have the temperament of being meloncholic. You had indicated that mercury sextile saturn is generally a bad aspect when it most certainly is not.

And there was another study done on the IQ of mensa students, and mercury quintile Uranus came up more often than not.

For astrology to be legetimate, you have to constructively be able to tell these things. That's an astrologer's job. Now how do you do that? Through research, and if that can't be done, through traditional sources of people that are highly esteemed.

Astrology is used to differentiate, I'm sorry it doesn't appeal to your ego(Can tell you're arrogant) but that's the whole point of astrology.

No one's asking your opinion about what is intelligent or not but in this modern era, IQ is the best measure of intelligence we got. And when I talk about intelligence, I mean IQ in other words, ability to spot connections and patterns, learn, originality, problem-solve, and a decent memory.

All of the above has been linked to a trait called openness to experience. Not all intelligent/high iqed people are conscientiousness and as the evolving71 said, you need some eq in order to actually have some success but intelligence like all talents can be brought down to one single aspect if you try hard enough.

Besides, I don't have any desire for you to stalk me. So you can Relax, you decided to pay attention to my terminology and unnecessarily deflect and bring it up. I just want you to admit you're wrong and stop bitching about a thread that decides to categorize Mercuries and moons accordingly to already established astrological principles.
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  #105  
Unread 02-19-2019, 04:02 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

@ Black Lioness
I've often heard that thought experiment of 1000 of children being born in the same time and place of these eminent persons, but I've never actually seen where it's borne out in actual experience.

I have noticed some trends around certain birthday clusters - like in mine I'm aware of persons who complain about being late bloomers and behind developmentally or feelings of inadequacy because of some delay they perceive in themselves - I was born during a period where Saturn was stationing direct - permeating that whole time-frame with Saturnine force.

I've also thought about the examples of Micheal Jackson, Tim Burton, and Madonna all being born with couple of weeks of each other. There was an individual who was born during this period who also had very good artistic ability but they never manifested on the world stage like these persons.
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  #106  
Unread 02-19-2019, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
I've also thought about the examples of Micheal Jackson, Tim Burton, and Madonna all being born with couple of weeks of each other. There was an individual who was born during this period who also had very good artistic ability but they never manifested on the world stage like these persons.
I don't mean to teaching anyone, just to add from your observations "eminance people" happen to be in January-February 1963. 3 Hall of Famers was born in this period, Hakeem Oulajuwon, Michael Jordan, and Charles Barkley.
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  #107  
Unread 02-19-2019, 04:18 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by love-thinking View Post
You had indicated that mercury sextile saturn is generally a bad aspect when it most certainly is not.
I never said that.

Quote:
You provided four people that you would say are smart. I have a thread up about intelligence with sources from Parashara/rishis and people with high iqs up (a whole bunch of them) with a mercury in aspect to saturn. In vedic astrology, mercury and saturn like eachother and they both have the temperament of being meloncholic.
And there was another study done on the IQ of mensa students, and mercury quintile Uranus came up more often than not.
The melancholic temperament correlation to intelligence is also something that is well known in traditional western circles. I have not seen that study on mensa students. Link?

Quote:
For astrology to be legetimate, you have to constructively be able to tell these things. That's an astrologer's job. Now how do you do that? Through research, and if that can't be done, through traditional sources of people that are highly esteemed.
And did I indicate that I was saying anything to the contrary?

Quote:
Astrology is used to differentiate
Which is why too much generalization is not productive to accurate chart reading. Some generalizations hold more water than others - if a pattern can hold even when going through this trial by fire, then you have something solid that you can use in chart delineation. Poking holes in what someone posits is apart of the research and development process, is it not?

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I'm sorry it doesn't appeal to your ego(Can tell you're arrogant) but that's the whole point of astrology.
Why should my arrogance get in the way of honest inquiry? My style will not appeal to everyone, and I'm ok with that. I don't plan to change to please anybody.

Quote:
No one's asking your opinion about what is intelligent or not but in this modern era, IQ is the best measure of intelligence we got. And when I talk about intelligence, I mean IQ in other words, ability to spot connections and patterns, learn, originality, problem-solve, and a decent memory.
It's a public forum and I'm free to share my opinion on a thread that is filled with other people's opinions. I have a contrary opinion to one specific poster and provided counter examples as to why his views don't hold.

Quote:
All of the above has been linked to a trait called openness to experience. Not all intelligent/high iqed people are conscientiousness and as the evolving71 said, you need some eq in order to actually have some success but intelligence like all talents can be brought down to one single aspect if you try hard enough.
The thread is about intelligence though, and not success. I'm not the one muddying the water by adding in emotional intelligence or conscientiousness to what is supposed to be a separate issue/trait.

Quote:
Besides, I don't have any desire for you to stalk me. So you can Relax, you decided to pay attention to my terminology and unnecessarily deflect and bring it up. I just want you to admit you're wrong and stop bitching about a thread that decides to categorize Mercuries and moons accordingly to already established astrological principles.
1) What am I wrong about?
2) In which source(s) is it established that water and fire mercury denote lesser logic and rationality?
3) What's your definition of bitching?
4) Why is it a problem if someone's questions a categorization? I've not seen this pattern hold water in my own chart reading experience. Must I not speak up if I see a discrepancy?
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  #108  
Unread 02-19-2019, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Evolving717223 View Post
-Pisces moon 3rd decan, in the 12th, all aspects that only make my 12th house pisces moon emotionally weaker.

-Pisces mars in the 12th, some good aspects though and the half of pisces that is jupiter balances out any physical energy loss from neptune's control here.

-Aries ascendant, 1st decan, conjunct my moon, and a ton of other non-prominent aspects and most are positive aspects.

-Jupiter in aries in the 1st, my jupiter is pretty negatively aspected though.

Yes I am a male
I'm so f*cking happy each time I'm guessing things especially when I don't know someone. It doesn't matter if I've done it a billion times it will always make me happy.

My question of your sex wasn't coincidental.

I thought that you might be a male with a weak mars, if you were a woman with a weak Mars I wouldn't care.

Aries is too obvious in your case and I'm guessing Jupiter magnifies it since it's in the 1st H. ASC being what you first get to know when you meet someone.

I can't say I'm exactly surprised that you have a Piscean Moon just because of the dislike you have for water Moons (the thread with Cap Moon girl coming into my mind).

However I kind of guessed that you didn't have incompatible signs with mine because no matter how much the way you come off is a rude, stubborn imo I didn't really disliked you, I kind of sensed that you're better than what you seem to be. Thinking about it I should have guessed that your ASC is in Aries without actually thinking it might be your Moon.

So your ASC being in Aries gives the wrong impression which your weak Mars may like but it doesn't do you any favors.

Actually it's Jupiter that ruins it since it makes hard aspects in your 1st H
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  #109  
Unread 02-19-2019, 04:32 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by Evolving717223 View Post
What makes sense?
In different ways, those aspects describe how very strident you can be when it comes to anything within the intellectual realm. There is a lot of zeal and fervor in your value systems and what you choose to take up as a serious field of study - which I can see astrology as being one of them. As well as some possible psychological scars surrounding the development of this approach to your values. And we've already spoken about your Moon placement. I've seen the same combo with Pisces Moon and Aries ascendant before and in the other case, the native overcompensated for his sensitivity by creating an overly aggressive and brash personality. Not saying you do the same thing exactly, but I can see the similarities.
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  #110  
Unread 02-19-2019, 04:39 AM
UnluckyGirl UnluckyGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by BlackLioness87 View Post
How is that the chart matters so much, if transits also affect people, synastry with people you meet also affects you. There may be people born at the same time and place of some of the people given as examples, but the former couldn't develop as much intellectual abilities as their astro twins.


Have you heard of the phrase they say "if the chart doesn't promise something then it won't happen no matter what?

Transits affect you based on your natal chart otherwise they would affect all of us the same. They don't change who you actually are. A person with a low intelligence won't become a genius because Transit Uranus conjuncted his/her Mercury. It will be maybe the period he/she will reach his highest potential.

In synastries, natal chart are always studied separately first.
I am a good example.
I have had quite good synastries (actually some of the best I've seen) with the men I've been attracted and it was mutual. Howeber my 7th H and 8th H are completely f*cked up indicating that I'm not the relationship type and no matter how I see it I end up doing the same. So even with these synastries and the actual chemistry between us our natal charts and transits at that period all mattered.
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  #111  
Unread 02-19-2019, 04:39 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

And if you take a look at some of the biographies of these individuals which the world have praised as intelligent and who have gained success as a result of their intellectual work, they don't all have this mystical "emotional intelligence" that you speak of. Some of them were quite literally emotionally crippled and not all that conscientious either.
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  #112  
Unread 02-19-2019, 04:47 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
I never said that.



The melancholic temperament correlation to intelligence is also something that is well known in traditional western circles. I have not seen that study on mensa students. Lin



And did I indicate that I was saying anything to the contrary?



Which is why too much generalization is not productive to accurate chart reading. Some generalizations hold more water than others - if a pattern can hold even when going through this trial by fire, then you have something solid that you can use in chart delineation. Poking holes in what someone posits is apart of the research and development process, is it not?



Why should my arrogance get in the way of honest inquiry? My style will not appeal to everyone, and I'm ok with that. I don't plan to change to please anybody.



It's a public forum and I'm free to share my opinion on a thread that is filled with other people's opinions. I have a contrary opinion to one specific poster and provided counter examples as to why his views don't hold.



The thread is about intelligence though, and not success. I'm not the one muddying the water by adding in emotional intelligence or conscientiousness to what is supposed to be a separate issue/trait.



1) What am I wrong about?
2) In which source(s) is it established that water and fire mercury denote lesser logic and rationality?
3) What's your definition of bitching?
4) Why is it a problem if someone's questions a categorization? I've not seen this pattern hold water in my own chart reading experience. Must I not speak up if I see a discrepancy?
You're so intellectually dishonest. Elving had indicated that aspects are usually the cause of these mercuries having more intelligence and another person had indicated placements and aspects usually are worth more than the signs. Which would make sense as the more time-sensitive something in a chart is, the more it pertains to you.

Also this is the link:
https://proastrologer.com/2013/04/14...-intelligence/



When you had then indicated that one of the four people you decided to add on that list had mercury saturn, I had told you that mercury saturn actually creates smart people as I have seen that come up a lot along with other stuff in one of my mini research endeveurs. Instead of addressing that, all of a sudden your ego got a boner at the word 'stalk.'

Deflection, intellectually dishonesty, and arrogance, no wonder elving71 whatever his name is is heated up.

So no you don't challenge, you deflect and don't answer with straight answers. You're shady, want to win, and clearly much of the **** written here hurts your ego.

As for water and fire signs making mercury weak

Mercury doesn't like the moon, mars(which traditionally rules scorpio and aries), jupiter(that traditionally rules sag and pisces), and does like sun(leo) probably the only fire sign.

I wouldn't be surprised why anyone indicated they think mercury is weaker in water and fire signs(although that may not one hundred percent be true or all the time), but I can sympathize with why they may think that.

Fire signs are about passion, and action(sometimes they lack foresight). Water signs are almost too slow, about relationships and emotions. Air signs are about sharing ideas, and earth signs are about practicality and attaining things methodically.

Air and Earth signs are also in the middle when it comes to the spectrum of male and female and that's what is required of you in order to attain any sort of ability to live in the real world.

Also think about it: Air signs include aquarius(some specify this is where it is exalted), libra(mercury does like venus), and gemini(it's own sign). Earth has cap(mercury has a similar temperament to saturn), taurus(mercury likes venus), and virgo(mercury rules virgo).

So generally speaking, mercury in a sign with the agenda to be methodical, attain things, and share ideas would be a tiny bit more intelligent than the contrary.

This as you can see is a theory that is grounded in something rather than trying to generalize everyone and say that you can't tell whether someone will be smart by looking at their chart.

In my humble opinion now, someone can be smart with mercury in a fire/water sign, and that's probably very little of what indicates someone being intelligent.

Parashara for example emphasizes the third house for book smarts, fifth house for creativity, abstract and theoretical thought, and sixth house for practicality.

Now in my humble opinion, if you were to take parashara's, insight, the state of mercury and it's aspects. Quintile and trine being the aspect of talent and easiness, and conjunctions being an aspect of deep learning the energy in this lifetime, and you factor in EQ (the moon's state of being and I hear in some places moon may be memory), you might have an answer on whether or not someone is intelligent. Now if you factor in conscientiousness in a chart, you can probably get someone that is well-developed and will be for the rest of their life.

It's possible you just need to find legitimate sources, and do some research.
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  #113  
Unread 02-19-2019, 04:51 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

It seems like the basis of marking fire and water as weak signs for Mercury is IQ tests which are meaningless. So that's that
I don't even feel the need to say anything more. IQ tests are MEANINGLESS including Mensa
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  #114  
Unread 02-19-2019, 04:54 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by UnluckyGirl View Post
I know this well. That is the reason I have a love-hate relationship with Neptune. Music is something I love, it's an important part of my daily life and one of the few good things I have in my life, probably the only "soul" food I have anymore. Even the music I like gives a mix of Neptunian and Plutonian vibes.
So I can't deny Neptune's magic.
It makes me sad that its negative qualities seem to override ita positive just because of its confusion and passivity. It's truly important that you have figured this out. Mars in 1st H is definately helpful because it's Aries house it naturally rules.

Mars in 12th H or Pisces IS SUPER HARD.

Thank you for the boost. It wasn't until recently I gain any confidence in my mind. I grew up looking down on myself because I knew the way my mind functioned was very different and at stark odds with conventionality. I assumed it meant I was wrong, inferior, and stupid

Feeling alienated is a classic with Uranus. But feeling inferior is your Neptune's fault.

I am not able to find it, it's been a long time since I read it but it was somewhere online (not a forum, an astrology page) saying that the best Mercury signs ate Aqua and Cancer along with Gemini and Virgo. I didn't find it surprising for Aqua at all actually but I was surprised to read that for Mercury in Cancer.

The problem is that majority of people I know with Mercury in Cancer have the Neptune opposition and maybe the Uranus one but it's always way wider.

I don't think Cancer Mercury is bad by any means, I just thing that Air signs, Virgo, Scorpio Mercury are even better, then comes Cancer for me. So I would say Cancer Mercury is more than average but I wad surprised it was chosen as one of the best Mercury signs.
The only thing I can theorize for a Cancer Mercury is possibly intuition. Otherwise I do find it surprising too. I think the Cancer influence would bring a subjective edge to the Mercurial functions. For that matter, probably water signs in general. Which I don't think by any means makes them weak, just deviates from conventional, modern intelligence
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  #115  
Unread 02-19-2019, 04:55 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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And if you take a look at some of the biographies of these individuals which the world have praised as intelligent and who have gained success as a result of their intellectual work, they don't all have this mystical "emotional intelligence" that you speak of. Some of them were quite literally emotionally crippled and not all that conscientious either.
Also, there was a study done on IQ and mbti. INTPs were on the top of the list.

Introversion, Intuitive, thinking and perceiving.
INFPs came in third after INTJs.
Which means, you need enough time to dwell and be entertained with your own thoughts, intuitive enough to see patterns and connections, less neurotic to a point where you're not overpowered with emotions. P and J, there doesn't appear to be a significant diffidence in intelligence.


So no, not all smart people have a control over their feelings, but having control over one's feelings is very effective and allows more space, time and energy to learn, expand one's knowledge, research and not be swayed by self-serving biases.
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  #116  
Unread 02-19-2019, 05:11 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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i'm 99.

It's just that every time someone asked you to post your chart you never actually do. Is it because you don't know how to? Can you ever admit when you don't know something?
this man is 99?
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  #117  
Unread 02-19-2019, 05:14 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by love-thinking View Post
You're so intellectually dishonest. Elving had indicated that aspects are usually the cause of these mercuries having more intelligence and another person had indicated placements and aspects usually are worth more than the signs. Which would make sense as the more time-sensitive something in a chart is, the more it pertains to you.
Which is why I'd like to know which aspects he specifically meant - he just riffed off an astrological truism without actually looking at the examples that I provided. Every Mercury was differently aspected with different planets, some were combusted, others were at their greatest elongation, some were virtually unaspected (Like Dawkins if you believe that a sextile is too weak at 6 degrees orb - an unaspected Mercury could explain his wildly rational nature and it is conjunct a royal fixed star too - connoting added strength to his Mercurial functions - his rationality and logical thinking)

Thanks

Quote:
When you had then indicated that one of the four people you decided to add on that list had mercury saturn, I had told you that mercury saturn actually creates smart people as I have seen that come up a lot along with other stuff in one of my mini research endeveurs. Instead of addressing that, all of a sudden your ego got a boner at the word 'stalk.'
Remind me never to joke with you again.

Anyway, you asked me if these chart owners had the criteria you asked for - you asked for positive aspects to malefics or uranus/saturn. Only one did - Dawkins, and a weak one at that. So whatever pattern you had in mind didn't hold for these individuals. Your options are too admit that your pattern isn't infallible or somehow try to brute force an explanation as to how these people aren't intelligent or that "we don't know if they even existed". That to me is intellectual dishonesty.

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Deflection, intellectually dishonesty, and arrogance, no wonder elving71 whatever his name is is heated up.
***** for him. And you.

Quote:
So no you don't challenge, you deflect and don't answer with straight answers. You're shady, want to win, and clearly much of the **** written here hurts your ego.
I hate Pluto

As for water and fire signs making mercury weak

Quote:
Mercury doesn't like the moon, mars(which traditionally rules scorpio and aries), jupiter(that traditionally rules sag and pisces), and does like sun(leo) probably the only fire sign.
And yet -

Mercury/Moon aspects are seen to increase mental perfomance in persons since both types of thinking are in a synergistic relationship with each other - Rationality,logic with intuitions and emotional insights and the imaginations. It's perhaps why we are seeing more Cancer Mercuries than you would expect if you just have in mind "emotions and intellect are at odds". Cancer is also the exaltation of Jupiter

Mercury/Mars have great mechanical ability and verbal sharpness/eloquence - again traditionally speaking. These are good placements for attorneys, mechanics, engineers or any public speaker. In the same breadth, a prominent Mars is also said to give eloquent speech. Aries is attributed to the head and all it's contents - which includes the brain.

Jupiter deals in the realm of higher knowledge and a Mercury so constituted would be geared toward those topics as well as the general characteristics of broad-mindedness, openness, and virtue - which all do well for the mental faculties.

The Sun was traditionally seen as the "organ of perception" and had a hand in brilliance. Perhaps this is why we see more Aries Mercuries/Aries in general cropping up in the cases of the highly intelligent - as Aries is the exaltation of the Sun.

Quote:
I wouldn't be surprised why anyone indicated they think mercury is weaker in water and fire signs(although that may not one hundred percent be true or all the time), but I can sympathize with why they may think that.

Fire signs are about passion, and action(sometimes they lack foresight). Water signs are almost too slow, about relationships and emotions. Air signs are about sharing ideas, and earth signs are about practicality and attaining things methodically.
I'm not surprised either. But that doesn't make it true nor does it stop me from trying to see beneath the assumption.

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Air and Earth signs are also in the middle when it comes to the spectrum of male and female and that's what is required of you in order to attain any sort of ability to live in the real world.

Also think about it: Air signs include aquarius(some specify this is where it is exalted), libra(mercury does like venus), and gemini(it's own sign). Earth has cap(mercury has a similar temperament to saturn), taurus(mercury likes venus), and virgo(mercury rules virgo).

So generally speaking, mercury in a sign with the agenda to be methodical, attain things, and share ideas would be a tiny bit more intelligent than the contrary.

This as you can see is a theory that is grounded in something rather than trying to generalize everyone and say that you can't tell whether someone will be smart by looking at their chart.
And traditionally speaking, the humane signs are all the air signs and Virgo. Some put parts of Sagittarius or the whole of Sagittarius in this category. Which among other things is supposed to increase the intellectual capacity of the chart owner.

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In my humble opinion now, someone can be smart with mercury in a fire/water sign, and that's probably very little of what indicates someone being intelligent.
Apart from opinion, you have examples in the world around where there are intelligent people with all kinds of Mercury placements. It's why a proper delineation of the whole chart is necessary. And, where the focus seems to be on Mercury alone, in the tradition you would look at the Mercury, Moon as well as the ascendant ruler to judge the mental capacity of the individual - what you want to know is the holistic mental state of the person, not just how overly developed their logic capacity is. Then the problem is that you can be very strictly and greatly logical, but if your axioms are incorrect you will never be right nor attain anything you set out to achieve or conquer with your mind.

Quote:
Parashara for example emphasizes the third house for book smarts, fifth house for creativity, abstract and theoretical thought, and sixth house for practicality.
Yeah, I've heard of the different houses and what they connote to the intelligence in the Vedic tradition. Probably not as much as you however.

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Now in my humble opinion, if you were to take parashara's, insight, the state of mercury and it's aspects. Quintile and trine being the aspect of talent and easiness, and conjunctions being an aspect of deep learning the energy in this lifetime, and you factor in EQ (the moon's state of being and I hear in some places moon may be memory), you might have an answer on whether or not someone is intelligent.
I can get behind this more nuanced look.

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It's possible you just need to find legitimate sources, and do some research.
I hide a lot of what I know. (Mercury conjunct Pluto in 12th, Stationing Saturn in 3rd) I'm not worried about finding legitimate sources. Nor is research a problem for me.
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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this man is 99?
Well, I might've shaved a couple of years off of my age...
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Unread 02-19-2019, 05:29 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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It seems like the basis of marking fire and water as weak signs for Mercury is IQ tests which are meaningless. So that's that
I don't even feel the need to say anything more. IQ tests are MEANINGLESS including Mensa
I feel like mercury sign is probably less than five percent when it comes to intelligence but I do feel like mercury does do better in some signs and houses.

Just because you may have mercury in a water sign, doesn't really mean much actually.

IQ tests administered by psychologists is definitely worth something especially IQ above a certain standard deviation or IQ bordering on genius.

Let's say someone has 110 IQ and more conscientiousness and someone else has 120 IQ but has less EQ, the one with the 110 IQ is going to probably be more successful in life.

Listen love, at the end of the day, being extremely intelligent doesn't always matter. We all pick a theme in life and we choose to play that role when we arrive in the physical plane.

I'm extremely attracted to pisces and scorpio energy as are many people (they probably find them more attractive than other signs), but it's not because they can go on and on about theories(unless it's about the occult) and crunch up some stats, it's because they are mystical, devoted, passionate, and their way of thinking/being is not something that can be defined within the constructs of our physical dimension/space. That's why they are so attractive and mysterious. And I believe you have lunar energy? Cancers are so nurturing, it makes my heart melt sometimes.

So see it's not really all about intelligence, who has a high IQ etc. Some people are meant to engage in nurturing kids, others are supposed to take part in fatal love affairs, others are supposed to shock the masses with their beauty and some are meant to find the next big thing in science.

I mean what's wrong in working as a receptionist, getting a decent paycheck, driving/bussing home to a nice apartment, having a girls night out once in a while, and meeting a handsome stranger every now and then?

As there is nothing wrong with being a child prodigy and passing a few grades.

Nor there is anything working hard to get a PHD.

I really didn't want to make this thread be offensive or rip anyone off of their self-esteem nor did I want this thread to leave a bad mark.

And I hope you do realize that mercury one bad sign/aspect doesn't equate to low intelligence. Hell, I have mercury conjunct neptune(also uranus in aqua and mars). And many online IQ tests are not accurate to the slightest.

And I read that you are a writer. Writers are amazing. Creativity is wonderful. Always wanted to be a writer. I just saw the posts Elving wrote to you, he's an *** regardless of whether i agree or disagree with him. I'm sorry if I made it seem I was supporting him.

*Sending you lots of positive energy.
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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So no, not all smart people have a control over their feelings, but having control over one's feelings is very effective and allows more space, time and energy to learn, expand one's knowledge, research and not be swayed by self-serving biases.
And before modern times, there was a concerted effort in education that pushed for children to learn how to govern themselves - it was moral training. Catholic schools, the Greeks etc.

While true, I wasn't saying anything to the contrary. Rather, mentioning emotional intelligence and conscientiousness with intellect would only muddy the waters of a discussion that is focused on just raw intellect. The same reason why we use famous people who have proven themselves to the world as intelligent through word and deed is the same reason why we use IQ as the primary, agreed upon marker for intelligence - it's the best we got. So until there is a committed researcher who collates private individuals who have staggering intellects and provide the birth data to be analysed by astrologers, we may forever be capturing the artifact of fame whenever we look at a well known intelligent persons chart.
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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I feel like mercury sign is probably less than five percent when it comes to intelligence but I do feel like mercury does do better in some signs and houses.

Just because you may have mercury in a water sign, doesn't really mean much actually.

IQ tests administered by psychologists is definitely worth something especially IQ above a certain standard deviation or IQ bordering on genius.

Let's say someone has 110 IQ and more conscientiousness and someone else has 120 IQ but has less EQ, the one with the 110 IQ is going to probably be more successful in life.

Listen love, at the end of the day, being extremely intelligent doesn't always matter. We all pick a theme in life and we choose to play that role when we arrive in the physical plane.

I'm extremely attracted to pisces and scorpio energy as are many people (they probably find them more attractive than other signs), but it's not because they can go on and on about theories(unless it's about the occult) and crunch up some stats, it's because they are mystical, devoted, passionate, and their way of thinking/being is not something that can be defined within the constructs of our physical dimension/space. That's why they are so attractive and mysterious. And I believe you have lunar energy? Cancers are so nurturing, it makes my heart melt sometimes.

So see it's not really all about intelligence, who has a high IQ etc. Some people are meant to engage in nurturing kids, others are supposed to take part in fatal love affairs, others are supposed to shock the masses with their beauty and some are meant to find the next big thing in science.

I mean what's wrong in working as a receptionist, getting a decent paycheck, driving/bussing home to a nice apartment, having a girls night out once in a while, and meeting a handsome stranger every now and then?

As there is nothing wrong with being a child prodigy and passing a few grades.

Nor there is anything working hard to get a PHD.

I really didn't want to make this thread be offensive or rip anyone off of their self-esteem nor did I want this thread to leave a bad mark.

And I hope you do realize that mercury one bad sign/aspect doesn't equate to low intelligence. Hell, I have mercury conjunct neptune(also uranus in aqua and mars). And many online IQ tests are not accurate to the slightest.

And I read that you are a writer. Writers are amazing. Creativity is wonderful. Always wanted to be a writer. I just saw the posts Elving wrote to you, he's an *** regardless of whether i agree or disagree with him. I'm sorry if I made it seem I was supporting him.

*Sending you lots of positive energy.
I don't need soothing

IQ tests are meaningless. 1. each IQ test varies and what they measure is inevitably led by bias as well as being limited 2. it's common knowledge IQ tests are infamous for not being able to measure many aspects of intelligence 3. intelligence is subjective, one man's idiot is another man's genius 4. if you score a 150 on an IQ test you're a genius but if you're doing nothing with it, all you have is a fancy title. It's meaningless. If you're actually highly gifted and are depressed, having a bad day, going through some medical issue, any number of variables, you might score low 5. we can look at actual geniuses from history and you really have to question what they would've scored on a modern IQ test

Someone with an extremely unconventional mind might score extremely low because it's impossible to measure their intelligence as it doesn't bend to society's standards
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Which is why I'd like to know which aspects he specifically meant - he just riffed off an astrological truism without actually looking at the examples that I provided. Every Mercury was differently aspected with different planets, some were combusted, others were at their greatest elongation, some were virtually unaspected (Like Dawkins if you believe that a sextile is too weak at 6 degrees orb - an unaspected Mercury could explain his wildly rational nature and it is conjunct a royal fixed star too - connoting added strength to his Mercurial functions - his rationality and logical thinking)



Thanks



Remind me never to joke with you again.

Anyway, you asked me if these chart owners had the criteria you asked for - you asked for positive aspects to malefics or uranus/saturn. Only one did - Dawkins, and a weak one at that. So whatever pattern you had in mind didn't hold for these individuals. Your options are too admit that your pattern isn't infallible or somehow try to brute force an explanation as to how these people aren't intelligent or that "we don't know if they even existed". That to me is intellectual dishonesty.



***** for him. And you.



I hate Pluto

As for water and fire signs making mercury weak



And yet -

Mercury/Moon aspects are seen to increase mental perfomance in persons since both types of thinking are in a synergistic relationship with each other - Rationality,logic with intuitions and emotional insights and the imaginations. It's perhaps why we are seeing more Cancer Mercuries than you would expect if you just have in mind "emotions and intellect are at odds". Cancer is also the exaltation of Jupiter

Mercury/Mars have great mechanical ability and verbal sharpness/eloquence - again traditionally speaking. These are good placements for attorneys, mechanics, engineers or any public speaker. In the same breadth, a prominent Mars is also said to give eloquent speech. Aries is attributed to the head and all it's contents - which includes the brain.

Jupiter deals in the realm of higher knowledge and a Mercury so constituted would be geared toward those topics as well as the general characteristics of broad-mindedness, openness, and virtue - which all do well for the mental faculties.

The Sun was traditionally seen as the "organ of perception" and had a hand in brilliance. Perhaps this is why we see more Aries Mercuries/Aries in general cropping up in the cases of the highly intelligent - as Aries is the exaltation of the Sun.



I'm not surprised either. But that doesn't make it true nor does it stop me from trying to see beneath the assumption.



And traditionally speaking, the humane signs are all the air signs and Virgo. Some put parts of Sagittarius or the whole of Sagittarius in this category. Which among other things is supposed to increase the intellectual capacity of the chart owner.



Apart from opinion, you have examples in the world around where there are intelligent people with all kinds of Mercury placements. It's why a proper delineation of the whole chart is necessary. And, where the focus seems to be on Mercury alone, in the tradition you would look at the Mercury, Moon as well as the ascendant ruler to judge the mental capacity of the individual - what you want to know is the holistic mental state of the person, not just how overly developed their logic capacity is. Then the problem is that you can be very strictly and greatly logical, but if your axioms are incorrect you will never be right nor attain anything you set out to achieve or conquer with your mind.



Yeah, I've heard of the different houses and what they connote to the intelligence in the Vedic tradition. Probably not as much as you however.



I can get behind this more nuanced look.



I hide a lot of what I know. (Mercury conjunct Pluto in 12th, Stationing Saturn in 3rd) I'm not worried about finding legitimate sources. Nor is research a problem for me.
'

After a few ego battles, we can come to an agreement in the end. I did find quite a lot of mercury in aries smart people actually I'll be honest but as you said, neunced look. But mercury still isn't friends with mars. I've seen three smart people with mercury in aries. What I mean by smart is high iq.

I have mercury in aqua sextile pluto conjunct mars, uranus, and neptune. Uranus is the closest.

But mercury doesn't like moon. If you can make me believe otherwise that moon and mercury does well together aside from quotes from more RECENT astrologers and not from older sources, be my guest. But i'll stick to research, and older sources.

I'm sure mercury conjunct pluto loves the term "stalk." Please let me know what imagery pluto brings up for you in your head.

In other words don't, I need to stop being crude, and disrespectful to the elderly. I'm only 23 so forgive me for being rude.
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Unread 02-19-2019, 05:42 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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It seems like the basis of marking fire and water as weak signs for Mercury is IQ tests which are meaningless. So that's that
I don't even feel the need to say anything more. IQ tests are MEANINGLESS including Mensa
There is no indication that fire and water Mercuries are weak signs as a result of IQ tests, anyway. Even if you wanted to stay within the confines of IQ tests, there is no proof of that claim.
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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I don't need soothing

IQ tests are meaningless. 1. each IQ test varies and what they measure is inevitably led by bias as well as being limited 2. it's common knowledge IQ tests are infamous for not being able to measure many aspects of intelligence 3. intelligence is subjective, one man's idiot is another man's genius 4. if you score a 150 on an IQ test you're a genius but if you're doing nothing with it, all you have is a fancy title. It's meaningless. If you're actually highly gifted and are depressed, having a bad day, going through some medical issue, any number of variables, you might score low 5. we can look at actual geniuses from history and you really have to question what they would've scored on a modern IQ test

Someone with an extremely unconventional mind might score extremely low because it's impossible to measure their intelligence as it doesn't bend to society's standards
It's not the be all, and end all but to say it's meaningless is a broad claim is it not? Especially since scientists with great innovations has had a high iq and kids that have been known to pass grades have also had high iq.

As I said again, it is a naunced topic. It doesn't measure all sorts of intelligence because it tests for intelligence specific to the ability to innovation.

And I said it before and I'll say it again, IQ not administered by a trained psychologists is prone to bringing on insignificant/meaningless results. But to say it's a meaningless concept when scientists and psychologists have tested it, wrote peer scholar articles on it, and you see stories of it every day, is kind of being dishonest and it serves a bias you already hold, or appealing to groupthink.

IQ doesn't guarantee success but it helps toward it in SOME AREAS like school.
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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'

After a few ego battles, we can come to an agreement in the end. I did find quite a lot of mercury in aries smart people actually I'll be honest but as you said, neunced look. But mercury still isn't friends with mars. I've seen three smart people with mercury in aries. What I mean by smart is high iq.

I have mercury in aqua sextile pluto conjunct mars, uranus, and neptune. Uranus is the closest.

But mercury doesn't like moon. If you can make me believe otherwise that moon and mercury does well together aside from quotes from more RECENT astrologers and not from older sources, be my guest. But i'll stick to research, and older sources.

I'm sure mercury conjunct pluto loves the term "stalk." Please let me know what imagery pluto brings up for you in your head.

In other words don't, I need to stop being crude, and disrespectful to the elderly. I'm only 23 so forgive me for being rude.
I read the charts of people and I've seen it where Mercury/Moon aspects do well for the person's thinking. Sorry it's not peer reviewed and published in some ditzy library somewhere. I've also read so much astrological literature that even if I began the digging process, it would take me a while to find it and I'm not that motivated.

That's good for your Mercury.

Once you can see how the aspects manifest in a living, breathing way, you won't be quick to slap characteristics on a person because of an aspect. I've never stalked anyone in my life - I'm too much of an individualist for that. Too much Sagittarius and Aquarius.

My chart is full of fire and Mars so what you see as "ego battle" I merely see as a disagreement. I like disagreement and I like to test and challenge people. A disagreement doesn't automatically connote egotism and trouble for the sake of it in my mind, but then I'm very fire bound.

We're also the same age. So no need to respect the elderly - they are all watching us quietly.
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