Thoughts on Dane Rudhyar?

katydid

Well-known member
Here is a short article he did on the 12th house:

https://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/astroarticles/problemsweallface_12.php

Astrological textbooks repeat that the twelfth house is the house of karma and of bondage. But it is also potentially the field of fulfillment and the symbol of the perfect end which is the prelude for more glorious tomorrows. What the natal twelfth house indicates is how you can reach perfect fulfillment, if you can at all reach it.

It does not say whether you will or will not reach it. It does not say whether or not you will leave, at the close of your life cycle or of any smaller cycles, many waste products and much unfinished business. It does not say whether or not you will be able to dismiss your ghosts — dismiss them with a blessing and courageously renew your mind and your life.

But it tells you something concerning the nature and insistency of the ghosts you will have to deal with; it gives you a general picture of your subconscious — the realm of ghosts and of the remains of unsolved problems or unlived experiences. It suggests to you the best way to deal with your ghosts and the disintegrating products of your subconscious.

The twelfth house gives as positive indications as any other house. There are indeed no bad houses. There are, nevertheless, fields of experience in which crises do occur; they must occur, for the sake of your tomorrows, for the sake of the future you, your greater self.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Well, App...it's your thread, your question.

You should read Rudhyar.
He changed modern astrology. Some of the changes have been good, some not so good (in my opinion). What you think after reading his works is up to you.

Why would you not read someone as important as Rudhyar?
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi. For me, Rudhyar's most important contribution to astrology is his teaching that each astrologically significant celestial cycle corresponds to an expression of what he referred to as the 'cycle of being'. If you want a quick introduction to what that is, you can read Leyla Rael's 'The Essential Rudhyar' at Khaldea.com; and there is talk by Rudhyar on The Rudhyar Audio Archive (hosted by the Beyond Sun Signs website) which has a long title, but its says something about 'cycles of life'. In the talk,he actually uses the tropical zodiacal cycle and the lunation cycle as examples.

The Lunation Cycle interprets the lunation cycle as a cycle of being; The Pulse of Life applies the idea to the tropical zodiacal cycle; and The Astrological Houses applies it to the diurnal cycle. He wrote a book with Leyla which covers the synodic cycle in general, rather than just that between the Sun and Moon. I don't have it to hand, but I think it is called Astrological Aspects. All of these books are very good, but take some careful reading. I'd recommend trying to write the key ideas down in your own words so that they become more accessible and real to you.

There's also an essay on Khaldea.com that applies that interprets the direct retrograde cycles of Mercury and Venus as cycles of being. Meyers also has one on the site which looks at this. Erin Sulivan uses the ideas in her book about retrograde planets, but she doesn't give any credit to Rudhyar.

A lot of his essays can be read for free on Khaldea.com, some of which are more accessible than others, and some of which are more relevant to the practise of astrology than others.

Best wishes

Miquar
 

miquar

Well-known member
Actually, there are a couple of books that you can buy from Khaldea.com that are very practical. One is called something like Wheel of Experience (about the houses) and the other is called something like The Creative Matrix (about the signs). There may be a planet in sign cookbook section in the latter, or I might be confusing it with another book.

There is an essay on Khaldea.com in which Rudhyar gives a brilliant summary of what each planet means - I'll try and find out what it's called over the next day or two and add it to the thread.

Someone mentioned An Astrological Mandala. From the way Rudhyar labels and interprets the four quarters of the tropical zodiac in this work, it is clear that he is referring to them as the four quarters of the cycle of being.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
Well, App...it's your thread, your question.

You should read Rudhyar.
He changed modern astrology. Some of the changes have been good, some not so good (in my opinion). What you think after reading his works is up to you.

Why would you not read someone as important as Rudhyar?

Cuz I only have so much time on this planet. There have been literally thousands of important figures in history who have written books, but I can only read about 10% of those works without losing balance in life.
 

Oddity

Well-known member
I heard that Rudhyar was sort of dictatorial in his classes. His way or the highway.

Interesting bit of trivia (or maybe not trivia). Rudhyar was a student in Saussure's Course on General Linguistics, which is where he met Marc Edmund Jones. Claude Levi Strauss was another alumnus.

The course was kind of nuts, maybe the worst thing about it was that it built the house that the deconstructionists tore down, it was the first link in the horrible chain of post-modernism. I'd say Rudhyar's work accurately reflects this.
 

miquar

Well-known member
Interesting bit of trivia (or maybe not trivia). Rudhyar was a student in Saussure's Course on General Linguistics, which is where he met Marc Edmund Jones. Claude Levi Strauss was another alumnus.

The course was kind of nuts, maybe the worst thing about it was that it built the house that the deconstructionists tore down, it was the first link in the horrible chain of post-modernism. I'd say Rudhyar's work accurately reflects this.

Hi Oddity

Could say a bit more about this please? Like what the house was and how it relates to Rudhyar's work.

Many thanks. Best wishes

Miquar
 

david starling

Well-known member
I read enough to find I agree with Rudhyar's opinion that H12 isn't necessarily a House of misfortune and "undoing". Anyone know how he handled the "Malefic/Benefic" dichotomy ?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I read enough to find I agree with Rudhyar's opinion

that H12 isn't necessarily a House of misfortune and "undoing".

Anyone know how he handled the "Malefic/Benefic" dichotomy ?
Siriusly, fact is
All current seven billion inhabitants of planet Earth
experience/have experienced at some stage
"misfortune and/or self-undoing" :smile:
 

Oddity

Well-known member

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I read enough to find I agree with Rudhyar's opinion
that H12 isn't necessarily a House of misfortune and "undoing".
Anyone know how he handled the "Malefic/Benefic" dichotomy ?
Siriusly, fact is
All current seven billion inhabitants of planet Earth
experience/have experienced at some stage
"misfortune and/or self-undoing" :smile:
In EACH and EVERY House.

obviously ruler of house twelve
may be located in any of the twelve houses
and aspect other planets in other houses
 

petosiris

Banned
Are you saying the ruler of H12, Jupiter included, automatically becomes a Malefic for that reason?

It does not become an accidental malefic in all traditions, but everyone will agree that it is less benefic by not ruling an important/good house. The Indian and to some extent Arabic traditions utilize accidental maleficence to a considerable degree. Note that malefics are not always bad, are just so-held, and it does not mean that they never bring any good with bad. Modern astrologers should not confuse the benefic and malefic distinction with good (God) and evil (Satan), think pagan bad, or just that cold and dry qualities are sometimes useful in society (for example in surgery or overthrowing a corrupt government). In medieval astrology, the 12th rules monasteries and prisons, yet most people do no think of those places as places of satan (although they could be as much as one's home).
 
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Oddity

Well-known member
They can certainly become accidental malefics based on house rulership, though. That's me speaking from being pretty rooted in the Perso-Arabic tradition (which has quite a bit of crossover with Jyotish).

I've got a great Venus - exalted, unafflicted, and ruling my 6th and 10th houses. Tenth house it hasn't done me badly, albeit Jupiter sits on my MC too, but 6th? Heavy Venus-Jupiter stuff going on in my chart and my diabetes invariably gets worse.

Weirdly? No family history, and I have to struggle to come up to a normal weight.
 

miquar

Well-known member
The coursebook is online, it was written down by Saussure's students, and eventually translated to English: https://monoskop.org/images/0/0b/Saussure_Ferdinand_de_Course_in_General_Linguistics_1959.pdf

I think you'll find some astrological common ground with signifiers and signifieds.

Hi Oddity. Thanks for the link. Having had a brief look I can see that the relationship between individual and collective would have come into clearer focus for Rudhyar through this course. But did your previous post imply that, as a result of this teaching, Rudhyar's work is constructed in a particular way, and that this needs to be taken into account when reading his stuff? If so, what do think is the essence of this structure? Or if not, what - in your opinion - is the influence which this teaching has had on Rudhyar's approach?

Many thanks. Best wishes,

Miquar
 

miquar

Well-known member
With regard to the benefic/malefic issue, Rudhyar seems to be saying that the important thing is to meet each experience in a spirit of openness - with a willingness to become what you actually are. To say that a part of you is malefic is at odds with this approach - an example of why cultural conditioning must be overcome in order for the potential inherent in the individual to blossom fully.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
Interesting bit of trivia (or maybe not trivia). Rudhyar was a student in Saussure's Course on General Linguistics, which is where he met Marc Edmund Jones. Claude Levi Strauss was another alumnus.

The course was kind of nuts, maybe the worst thing about it was that it built the house that the deconstructionists tore down, it was the first link in the horrible chain of post-modernism. I'd say Rudhyar's work accurately reflects this.

His work is post-modernist? My desire to read from him has gone down considerably. :tongue:
 
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