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Horary Astrology Ask and answer any horary questions, and discuss theory and technique. Please post a chart of the time, date, and place you asked the question. Please do not ask the same question repeatedly, hoping for a different result: horary works best when you ask the question ONCE and then interpret the chart that results from when the question FIRST came into your mind. Horary forums are ONLY for discussion of horary charts and techniques.


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  #26  
Unread 05-24-2020, 10:35 PM
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Re: Lost cat

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Originally Posted by kalinka View Post


I'm glad to hear that -happy end!

Did not have time to read and reply but

we can always count on Aria
I agree - and thank you Aria Venue for generously giving your time
providing freely your detailed analysis!
it is of great value to all of us learners

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Unread 05-24-2020, 11:05 PM
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Re: Lost cat

Hi,
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Originally Posted by Aria Venue View Post
*** about calculating time!!!!! ...What concerns us is the distance the applying planet must travel to perfect the aspect. [/U][/B]For this, you will need to consult your ephemeris.
This is absolutely correct. When counting, you cannot count the time units by taking into account the change of signs by the relevant planets.

However, that said, I understand the intuition part also. I have had moments where I have felt very strongly despite the applying bit not holding good. In such a case, I would just not have an explanation for what I say. And, sometimes, there are things that cannot be explained - in literal terms.
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  #28  
Unread 05-25-2020, 05:04 AM
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Re: Lost cat

Akera AriesVenue, Kalinka,

Just out of curiosity...

..I have a question about the reading, it involves appointing significators to connect the activity of locating the cat via the stranger, (Man or Woman of the 9th house) to the querent. The Ascendant is personal initiative energy, she is represented by Venus whom is retrograde. (Mercury is the natural lord of the 6th house and small animals-they are moving to conjunction-(there is resonance in Jupiter's 9th house for his involvement in retrieval of the cat).

The Ascendant lord Venus retraces (retrograde) steps to go back to areas where the cat may have trodden, area's of thouroughfair (9th H.C.) to tourists and travelers. (An additional question, was there any public acclimation to others in the area to help find the animal, 9th house could be flyers in the area, friends among foreigners etc) Example: a foreigner intervens and plays an important role to returning the cat back to the owner.

The Cardinal angles qualify the timing faster than normal time reference given in the map, (4 weeks turning into 4 days), bc of all of the angles being in Cardinal signs, which is very fast actvity to be expected.

The Moon is in fixed Taurus, exalted, the cat is ruled of the Moon a beloved animal, whilst she is very close to 'sudden acting' Uranus in-'fall' in Taurus but he is in mutual reception with one of the cats rulers (Jupiter in Cardinal Capricorn (gives faster movment to timing also, Jup. being in an angle, very strong) Jupiter in detriment in Capricorn makes the exchange expression with Uranus obliged in lordship in Capricorn (dignified). Jupiter is in 'harmony' in Taurus where Uranus is in his fall, (Doris Chase Doone-Modern Horary) activating several influences of energies that could give another insight to answer the question to faster timing other than cadent Venus moving to dignified Mercury-lending to a positive outcome for an answer of yes, the cat will come back. (Uranus stands for an individual appearing out of nowhere equaling secret eery circumstances (8th house), for the cat to be returned by an unknown Human element suddenly).

The bridging of time can be seen by a number of factors-planets moving to aspect the significator Jupiter..one of them being the Moon's last aspect to trine him = yes, answering the question, 'Will Jake come back?'

The Ascendant moves quickly (qualifies Venus in Gemini-Venus rules cats also) in the 'face' (decante) of Cardinal sign Libra/Aquarius, involving 'sudden' Uranus. The timing involves considerations of Jupiter retro in an angle in a Cardinal sign (lord of the 6th house = Jake the cat) with populace Pluto near him in the angle for timing. Each could describe influences pertaining to areas surrounding the neighboring vicinity and the owners house.

I realize this is hindsight to answering the question, but I see several elements within the first chart (rather than using the 2nd map to answer the question with any better insight than the first is able to reveal) that could have solved the question with a positive outcome, as you did for the owner utilizing the second chart. Did you consider the first chart in light of the salent factors I used above?

I appreciate any additonal feedback you may give on the consideration mentioned here, in 'The case of the missing cat..Jake".

Thank you
Sincerely
Student of Astrology
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  #29  
Unread 05-25-2020, 09:32 AM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Lost cat

My dear Aria you're repeating your arguments, which are, as I said, totally right. I agree with you. And also as I already said, in this chart I simply count the degree between Jupiter and Saturn because it was my intuition to do that. What I usually wouldn't do.
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  #30  
Unread 05-25-2020, 01:11 PM
Aria Venue Aria Venue is offline
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Re: Lost cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
My dear Aria you're repeating your arguments, which are, as I said, totally right. I agree with you. And also as I already said, in this chart I simply count the degree between Jupiter and Saturn because it was my intuition to do that. What I usually wouldn't do.
no worries kallinka, i had to repeat them cause you insisted on the saturn-jupiter aspect that's all . i was simply trying to explain to you and others that astrologically there's no reasoning behind this claim, or behind tol, or even almuten.

You know that rarely i respond to threads to correct others, even when i see something totally wrong(astrologically)written and i do this out of respect of others (i am not the " teacher " or the police in this forum, nor i want to "play" it as i am the smarter one).But if they respond to something that i've already justified, then obviously i have to respond, always mentioning astrological facts.So please by no means consider my respond as i am trying to offend you in any way.We all make mistakes and after all we can only improve through recognizing them

what i previously said has nothing to do with a different approach (modern vs traditional), i simply stated some basic facts which have to do with how we calculate time in general, when we say an aspect perfects etc...

About intuition in interpreting horary charts: personally i avoid making hypothetical assumptions, not only cause i was trained not to do that, but mainly cause in real terms this is not an astrological delineation

be well
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  #31  
Unread 05-25-2020, 02:03 PM
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Re: Lost cat

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Originally Posted by Aria Venue View Post
...About intuition in interpreting horary charts: personally i avoid making hypothetical assumptions, not only cause i was trained not to do that, but mainly cause in real terms this is not an astrological delineation
Not to offend, but firstly intuition is not equal hypothetical assumptions. Shocked and sad to hear this definition.

Secondly, no trainer should ever train their trainees to not use their intuition as part of the divination called Astrology. In my books, such a trainer/teacher would be a complete no-go.

Intuition is something which one either has and is aware of or not.
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  #32  
Unread 05-25-2020, 02:17 PM
Aria Venue Aria Venue is offline
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Re: Lost cat

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Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
Not to offend, but firstly intuition is not equal hypothetical assumptions. Shocked and sad to hear this definition.

Secondly, no trainer should ever train their trainees to not use their intuition as part of the divination called Astrology. In my books, such a trainer/teacher would be a complete no-go.

Intuition is something which one either has and is aware of or not.
Not to offend either, but delineating a chart based on my intuition is not astrology.
That being said my dear aquarius, "intuition" tells me that "your books" are not related to horary or traditional astrology.
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Unread 05-25-2020, 02:22 PM
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Re: Lost cat

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Originally Posted by Aria Venue View Post
Not to offend either, but delineating a chart based on my intuition is not astrology.
That being said my dear aquarius, "intuition" tells me that "your books" are not related to horary or traditional astrology.
Astrology is divination and cannot be separated from intuition. Most Astrologers in olden days used intuition. It was not even something you needed to mention, that is how normal and accepted it was. Intuition is not a switch you turned on or off when practising Astrology. Not to derail the thread completely, I will leave this at this. Anyway.
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  #34  
Unread 05-25-2020, 03:06 PM
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Re: Lost cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aria Venue View Post

no worries kallinka, i had to repeat them cause you insisted on the saturn-jupiter aspect that's all . i was simply trying to explain to you and others that astrologically there's no reasoning behind this claim, or behind tol, or even almuten.

You know that rarely i respond to threads to correct others, even when i see something totally wrong(astrologically)written and i do this out of respect of others (i am not the " teacher " or the police in this forum, nor i want to "play" it as i am the smarter one).But if they respond to something that i've already justified, then obviously i have to respond, always mentioning astrological facts.So please by no means consider my respond as i am trying to offend you in any way.We all make mistakes and after all we can only improve through recognizing them


what i previously said has nothing to do with a different approach (modern vs traditional), i simply stated some basic facts which have to do with how we calculate time in general, when we say an aspect perfects etc...


About intuition in interpreting horary charts: personally i avoid making hypothetical assumptions, not only cause i was trained not to do that, but mainly cause in real terms this is not an astrological delineation


be well
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post

Not to offend, but firstly intuition is not equal hypothetical assumptions. Shocked and sad to hear this definition.

Secondly, no trainer should ever train their trainees to not use their intuition as part of the divination called Astrology.
In my books, such a trainer/teacher would be a complete no-go.

Intuition is something which one either has
and is aware of
or not.
DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF "INTUTION"
noun:
".....the ability to understand something instinctively
without the need for conscious reasoning.
a thing that one knows
or
considers likely
from instinctive feeling
rather than conscious reasoning...."


HORARY ASTROLOGY DEPENDS ON ABILITY FOR CONSCIOUS REASONING

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aria Venue View Post

Not to offend either, but delineating a chart based on my intuition
is not astrology.
That being said my dear aquarius, "intuition" tells me that "your books" are not related to horary or traditional astrology.
Horary astrology is based on traditional astrology
and the use of considerable conscious reasoning

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post

Astrology is divination and cannot be separated from intuition.
Most Astrologers in olden days used intuition.
It was not even something you needed to mention
that is how normal and accepted it was.
Intuition is not a switch you turned on or off when practising Astrology.
Not to derail the thread completely, I will leave this at this.
Anyway.
DEFINITION OF ASTROLOGER
https://theastrologypodcast.com/2012...ck-dagan-best/


WHAT IS ASTROLOGY - podcast fundamental principles
https://www.youtube.com/user/RyansVedicAstrology
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  #35  
Unread 05-25-2020, 03:09 PM
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Re: Lost cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
Astrology is divination and cannot be separated from intuition. Most Astrologers in olden days used intuition. It was not even something you needed to mention, that is how normal and accepted it was. Intuition is not a switch you turned on or off when practising Astrology. Not to derail the thread completely, I will leave this at this. Anyway.
There is a popular misconception that astrology is best defined as divination. However, while divination is seen as a part of astrology, this term does not cover all of the many branches and practices of astrology. In fact, no astrologer nor any scholar who has studied astrology seriously would define the entire field of astrology as divination.

Astrology is not widely defined as divination by expert sources
Though standard definitions vary with astrology defined as an art, study, practice, method, system and divination, 'study' seems to be the predominant dictionary definition. In addition, scholars and astrologers rarely label the field of astrology as divination.

== Definitions of Divination ==

Divination, the art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge usually by the interpretation of omens or by the aid of supernatural powers. Meriam-Websters on line (2011)

Divination, n. the art or practice of divining; seeking to know the future or hidden things by supernatural means; instinctive prediction; prediction; conjecture. Divine vt, to foresee or foretell as if divinely inspired; to guess or make out; to prognosticate; to make divine (Spenser); L. divines from divus, deus a god]. Chambers Dictionary, 11th edition (2010)

Divination, n. supposed insight into the future or the unknown gained by supernatural means. Oxford Compact English Dictionary, OUP (1996)
Divination, n., the practice of seeking knowledge of the future or the unknown by supernatural means. From Latin divinare to predict. Oxford Dictionary of English, OUP (2006)

Divination, n., the ability to say what will happen in the future or the act of doing this. Longmans, Dictionary of Contemporary English, Pearson Education Ltd. (2010)

Divination , n 1. the art, practice or gift of discerning or discovering future events or unknown things, as though by supernatural powers 2. a prophecy 3. a presentiment or guess Collins English Dictionary (2010)

Divination, the art of discovering future events as though by supernatural powers. Harper Collins, Essential Dictionary and Thesaurus (2007)


What do the polls say?
When asked whether free will can modify planetary influences, 97% of 250 astrologers surveyed said yes.
Source: Moore, Marcia (1960) A Socio-Psychological Survey Astrology Today
In a survey of 783 astrologers at conferences in UK, USA, Serbia, Norway, Argentina and Brazil during 1999-2011 elicited the following responses:

56% Astrology predicts the future
87% Astrology is a language
50% Astrology is a science
42% Astrology is divination
8% Astrology is a religion
Source: Campion, Nicholas (2012) Astrology and Popular Religion in Modern West pp.175-178

http://www.astrology.co.uk/tests/divination.htm
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  #36  
Unread 05-25-2020, 03:55 PM
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Re: Lost cat

Intution means, to use a natural ruler instead of the accidental ruler, for example. And I'm looking for all indications not only at a single one. Mercury/Venus conjunction would probably match better as timer. And when I'm turning the chart into the sidereal zodiac with whole sign houses, the cat is here Saturn L6 and Jupiter is L4. Mercury is asc-ruler but makes no aspect to Saturn.Moon also doesn't.Moon is actually voc. Saturn and Jupiter are in the same house and the same sign. Hence Sun translates the light from Jupiter to Saturn. Sun is L12 and sitting in the 9th house with Venus and Mercury. Mercury is weak and only make an aspect with Saturn by houses, which is enough if Mercury is in direct aspect with a strong third Planet-in this case Venus (in Taurus and ruler of the 9th). So the chart is almost the same. Both querent and quesited needed helpers. we have 3 time options. Sun and Saturn =2Degrees, Mercury/Venus=3-4 Degrees, Saturn/Jupiter=4-5 Degree. What option to chose? Intuitively 4 Degrees.
If I would look at the chart with the stellar system, I might come to a more precise time. In any way-the time is given in the chart.Even if my timer was wrong.

Last edited by kalinka; 05-25-2020 at 04:02 PM.
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  #37  
Unread 05-25-2020, 04:00 PM
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Re: Lost cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post




Intution means,

to use a natural ruler instead of the accidental ruler, for example.
on the contrary:
DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF "INTUTION"
noun:
".....the ability to understand something instinctively
without the need for conscious reasoning.
a thing that one knows
or
considers likely
from instinctive feeling
rather than conscious reasoning...."


HORARY ASTROLOGY DEPENDS ON ABILITY FOR CONSCIOUS REASONING
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post


And I'm looking for all indications not only at a single one
Mercury/Venus conjunction would probably match better as timer. And when I'm turning the chart into the sidereal zodiac with whole sign houses, the cat is here Saturn L6 and Jupiter is L4. Mercury is asc-ruler but makes no aspect to Saturn.Moon also doesn't.Moon is actually voc. Saturn and Jupiter are in the same house and the same sign. Hence Sun translates the light from Jupiter to Saturn. Sun is L12 and sitting in the 9th house with Venus and Mercury. Mercury is weak and only make an aspect with Saturn by houses, which is enough if Mercury is in direct aspect with a strong third Planet-in this case Venus (in Taurus and ruler of the 9th). So the chart is almost the same. Both querent and quesited needed helpers. we have 3 time options. Sun and Saturn =2Degrees, Mercury/Venus=3-4 Degrees, Saturn/Jupiter=4-5 Degree. What option to chose? Intuitively 4 Degrees.
If I would look at the chart with the stellar system, I might come to a more precise time. In any way-the time is given in the chart.
all of the above uses CONSCIOUS REASONING
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Unread 05-25-2020, 04:09 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Lost cat

You can call or define it as you want. I said that I did not mistakenly, means conscious,use the degree between Saturn and Jupiter because my feeling was to use it as timer.
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Unread 05-25-2020, 04:41 PM
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Re: Lost cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post


You can call or define it as you want.
thanks

the DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF "INTUTION" is:
noun:
".....the ability to understand something instinctively
without the need for conscious reasoning.
a thing that one knows
or
considers likely
from instinctive feeling
rather than conscious reasoning...."


HORARY ASTROLOGY DEPENDS ON ABILITY FOR CONSCIOUS REASONING
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post


I said that I did not mistakenly,
means conscious,use the degree between Saturn and Jupiter
because my feeling was to use it as timer.

HORARY astrology uses CONSCIOUS REASONING RULES
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  #40  
Unread 05-25-2020, 04:58 PM
Aria Venue Aria Venue is offline
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Re: Lost cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
Intution means, to use a natural ruler instead of the accidental ruler, for example. And I'm looking for all indications not only at a single one. Mercury/Venus conjunction would probably match better as timer. And when I'm turning the chart into the sidereal zodiac with whole sign houses, the cat is here Saturn L6 and Jupiter is L4. Mercury is asc-ruler but makes no aspect to Saturn.Moon also doesn't.Moon is actually voc. Saturn and Jupiter are in the same house and the same sign. Hence Sun translates the light from Jupiter to Saturn. Sun is L12 and sitting in the 9th house with Venus and Mercury. Mercury is weak and only make an aspect with Saturn by houses, which is enough if Mercury is in direct aspect with a strong third Planet-in this case Venus (in Taurus and ruler of the 9th). So the chart is almost the same. Both querent and quesited needed helpers. we have 3 time options. Sun and Saturn =2Degrees, Mercury/Venus=3-4 Degrees, Saturn/Jupiter=4-5 Degree. What option to chose? Intuitively 4 Degrees.
If I would look at the chart with the stellar system, I might come to a more precise time. In any way-the time is given in the chart.Even if my timer was wrong.
Kallinka i am sorry but i can't follow

Checking also the natural ruler for the cat and not only the accidental one, is not intuition, but a common approach in horary in lost animals or objects, for the same reason we also rarely use moon ...etc. However "intuition" would have been to say that you knew "instinctively" that the querent will find his lost cat in 4 days, still you couldn't justify this astrologically.

That being said,are we all referring to the charts in this thread or charts you cast based on sidereal? I would kindly ask you, if possible not to mix different Technics or charts, so we can all speak the same language and communicate, especially since in this thread the charts are based on tropical.So what do you mean "to use a natural ruler instead of the accidental ruler, for example. And I'm looking for all indications not only at a single one. Mercury/Venus conjunction would probably match better as timer."?
which is the natural ruler you are referring to? why would Mercury/Venus conjunction give the time? what is mercury? and what is venus? in which chart and according to tropical or sidereal?

Last edited by Aria Venue; 05-25-2020 at 05:04 PM.
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Unread 05-25-2020, 05:34 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Lost cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aria Venue View Post
Kallinka i am sorry but i can't follow

Checking also the natural ruler for the cat and not only the accidental one, is not intuition, but a common approach in horary in lost animals or objects, for the same reason we also rarely use moon ...etc. However "intuition" would have been to say that you knew "instinctively" that the querent will find his lost cat in 4 days, still you couldn't justify this astrologically.

That being said,are we all referring to the charts in this thread or charts you cast based on sidereal? I would kindly ask you, if possible not to mix different Technics or charts, so we can all speak the same language and communicate, especially since in this thread the charts are based on tropical.So what do you mean "to use a natural ruler instead of the accidental ruler, for example. And I'm looking for all indications not only at a single one. Mercury/Venus conjunction would probably match better as timer."?
which is the natural ruler you are you referring to? why would Mercury/Venus conjunction give the time? what is mercury? and what is venus? in which chart and according to tropical or sidereal?
I mean, when we have more than only one option as significator for the cat. The cat in this chart (tropical) could be Jupiter, Saturn and even mercury-because mercury natural rules pets and Asc-ruler Venus is in the rulership of mercury. What I saw is the degree of Venus/ Mercury and Saturn/Jupiter. So intuitively thought 4 units (without turning into sidereal zodiac).
I also looked into the sidereal zodiac but our discussion didn't base on it. I only mentioned it now (in the recent post) because I think it shows better why I came to 4 units.
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Unread 05-25-2020, 05:43 PM
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Re: Lost cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
I mean, when we have more than only one option as significator for the cat. The cat in this chart (tropical) could be Jupiter, Saturn and even mercury-because mercury natural rules pets and Asc-ruler Venus is in the rulership of mercury. What I saw is the degree of Venus/ Mercury and Saturn/Jupiter. So intuitively thought 4 units (without turning into sidereal zodiac).
I also looked into the sidereal zodiac but our discussion didn't base on it. I only mentioned it now (in the recent post) because I think it shows better why I came to 4 units.
you use sidereal astrology
this thread uses tropial horary
and now you clearly state that
sidereal VEDIC astrology shows better than tropical how you chose 4 units
not intuition, but sidereal VEDIC CONSCIOUS REASONING
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Unread 05-25-2020, 05:44 PM
Aria Venue Aria Venue is offline
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Re: Lost cat

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Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
I mean, when we have more than only one option as significator for the cat. The cat in this chart (tropical) could be Jupiter, Saturn and even mercury-because mercury natural rules pets and Asc-ruler Venus is in the rulership of mercury. What I saw is the degree of Venus/ Mercury and Saturn/Jupiter. So intuitively thought 4 units (without turning into sidereal zodiac).
I also looked into the sidereal zodiac but our discussion didn't base on it. I only mentioned it now (in the recent post) because I think it shows better why I came to 4 units.
Ok thank you for clarifying this
Still: saturn is a natural sig for pets and not mercury(al biruni, lilly, etc) "cats, dogs, wolves, bears; serpents; animals that live under ground or under stones; animals that have a hard shell (like turtles); black animals (like scorpions, crows, etc); donkeys; mice; animals that creep, etc."

So mercury is not the natural sig for the cat and we can't claim that venus/mercury conjunction gives the time the querent finds his lost cat

Last edited by Aria Venue; 05-25-2020 at 05:48 PM.
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Re: Lost cat

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
you use sidereal astrology
this thread uses tropial horary
and now you clearly state that
sidereal VEDIC astrology shows better than tropical how you chose 4 units
not intuition, but sidereal VEDIC CONSCIOUS REASONING
What you seems to not to understand is that it does not matter if my chose of 4 units was intuitively or conscious..it was a mix of both. the time is seen in the chart, whether with tropical or sidereal zodiac. I know that this thread has a tropical horary (Thanks for mentioned it again).that's why I didn't actually came with vedic astrology arguments first. However-when the time can be seen with vedic methods for the same chart, then the tropical one must show the same outcome and time. But your opinion is that the chart doesn't show the time, with which I don't agree.Or do u want to tell that Vedic astrology is the more accurate system
Of course I'm not always right about time or predictions (but I think better in time predictions than other sort of predictions) but as I already mentioned, I was somehow sure in this case. Otherwise I wouldn't have wrote it. And now you can give me arguments how to see the 4 units in the chart.
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Unread 05-25-2020, 06:34 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Lost cat

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Originally Posted by Aria Venue View Post
Ok thank you for clarifying this
Still: saturn is a natural sig for pets and not mercury(al biruni, lilly, etc) "cats, dogs, wolves, bears; serpents; animals that live under ground or under stones; animals that have a hard shell (like turtles); black animals (like scorpions, crows, etc); donkeys; mice; animals that creep, etc."

So mercury is not the natural sig for the cat and we can't claim that venus/mercury conjunction gives the time the querent finds his lost cat
Not for vedic astrologers. Even Sun and Mars could be natural rulers for the cat. Now you would say, I shouldn't mix the techniques, what I don't do-I'm using the same Karaka/natural ruler if it makes sense for me.

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Re: Lost cat

What is the Karaka method, is it available online? Offset: The 6th house (ruler Mercury), is the natural house of small pets, as is the Moon, Venus.

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Re: Lost cat

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Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
What you seems to not to understand is that it does not matter if my chose of 4 units was intuitively or conscious..it was a mix of both. the time is seen in the chart, whether with tropical or sidereal zodiac. I know that this thread has a tropical horary (Thanks for mentioned it again).that's why I didn't actually came with vedic astrology arguments first. However-when the time can be seen with vedic methods for the same chart, then the tropical one must show the same outcome and time. But your opinion is that the chart doesn't show the time, with which I don't agree.Or do u want to tell that Vedic astrology is the more accurate system
Of course I'm not always right about time or predictions (but I think better in time predictions than other sort of predictions) but as I already mentioned, I was somehow sure in this case. Otherwise I wouldn't have wrote it. And now you can give me arguments how to see the 4 units in the chart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
Not for vedic astrologers. Even Sun and Mars could be natural rulers for the cat. Now you would say, I shouldn't mix the techniques, what I don't do-I'm using the same Karaka/natural ruler if it makes sense for me.
Dear kalinka really everyone who reads this thread so far can understand how and why you said 4 units..you saw the degree difference between saturn and Jupiter and you said 4 units...you said it yourself so many times so far, i explained to you so many times that this is wrong, still you don't understand it,, although you say you agree and you never do this, but actually this is what you do.

If you really knew how we calculate time and how western horary works, then you should have never said that.
initially you tried to justify that it doesnt' matter how and when the aspects perfects( jupiter-saturn conjunction november 2020 in aquarious, etc) , then you spoke about intuition, then you tried to justified once more that this wasnt intuition but vedic, then you spoke about almuten (even that is wrong), then you spoke about tol(if this is the case then it gives 2 not 4), then again you said that you agree but once more you insist on intuition or reasoning,then you said that mars, or sun. or mercury or jupiter can be the cat....,,really all these make no sense not only to me but anyone who at least know the basics in traditional astrology, or has the minimum common sense.

Anyway since you don't practice western astrology but vedic mayby is better next time before you comment on a thread based on tropical to clarify that what you say is based on a sidereal chart and in another method of delineation.That way we can understand better your comments, although since no one in this section practice vedic, whatever you claim "whether is right or wrong" cannot be possibly argued astrogically.So that way you may feel safer to say things that make sense only to you and obviously to no one else in this forum.

As far i am concerned, i think it would be better to stop this pointless argument whether in tropical is saturn the natural sig for pets, or whether is mercury or sun or mars in sidereal, or whether you find another planet in these charts that can be the cat and so forth, or if the time is given by venus/mercury, saturn/jupiter or else.

I already explained so many times that:"time was never asked" but if someone wants to see it then can read the reasonable arguments above, about moon aspect to jupiter, or sun, etc...

Last edited by Aria Venue; 05-26-2020 at 12:00 PM.
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Unread 05-25-2020, 07:26 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Lost cat

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Originally Posted by Student of Astrology View Post
What is the Karaka method, is it available online? Offset: The 6th house (ruler Mercury), is the natural house of small pets, as is the Moon, Venus.

Student of Astrology
Karaka just means natural ruler
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  #49  
Unread 05-25-2020, 07:32 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Lost cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post


What you seems to not to understand is that
it does not matter if my chose of 4 units

was intuitively

or conscious

..it was a mix of both.
it is important to understand that
traditional horary astrology is clearly BASED ON CONSCIOUS REASONING
and not based on intuition
in any event you have just said you used CONSCIOUS REASONING
and previously you based that CONSCIOUS REASONING
on your use of sidereal vedic conscious reasoning
so that requires stating
because this board is tropical based
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post

the time is seen in the chart, whether with tropical or sidereal zodiac.
HOWEVER
SIGN LOCATION of planets
IS A VARIATBLE BECAUSE


NOT ALWAYS IN SAME SIGN BOTH TROPICALLY AND SIDEREALLY
because
although Astrologers
– whether Tropical or Sidereal
– are commenting on and making predictions
regarding THE IDENTICAL MOON/PLANET in the skies
A computer generated Tropical Chart differs by DEGREE OCCUPIED BY THE MOON
from Sidereal DEGREE OCCUPIED BY MOON
similary with planets
Sidereal location of Moon
may be confirmed BY VISUAL observation of local skies
likewise with planetary location
i.e.

there is a minimum difference of 20 up to a maximum of approximately 24
between TROPICAL AND SIDEREAL MEASUREMENT
for example

ANY planet at 0 OF any TROPICAL SIGN
is SIDEREALLY between approximately 6 - 10
to a maximum 24 of the PREVIOUS SIGN
dependent on the ayanamsha
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post


I know that this thread has a tropical horary
(Thanks for mentioned it again)
.that's why I didn't actually came with vedic astrology arguments first.

However-when the time can be seen with vedic methods for the same chart, then
the tropical one must show the same outcome and time.

But your opinion is that the chart doesn't show the time, with which I don't agree.
Or do u want to tell that Vedic astrology is the more accurate system
Of course I'm not always right about time or predictions

(but I think better in time predictions than other sort of predictions)

but as I already mentioned, I was somehow sure in this case.
Otherwise I wouldn't have wrote it.
And now you can give me arguments how to see the 4 units in the chart.
I have clearly shown that TROPICAL SIGN/degree location of planet/Moon/Asscendant
differs from
SIDEREAL SIGN/degree location
and that is indisputable
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  #50  
Unread 05-25-2020, 07:52 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Lost cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aria Venue View Post
Dear kalinka really everyone who read this thread so far can understand how and why you said 4 units..you saw the degree difference between saturn and Jupiter and you said 4 units...you said it yourself so many times so far, i explained to you so many times that this is wrong, still you don't understand it,, although you say you agree and you never do this, but actually this is what you do.

If you really knew how we calculate time then you should have never said that.

Anyway since you don't practice western astrology but vedic mayby is better next time before you comment on a thread based on tropical to clarify that what you say is based on a sidereal chart and in another method of delineation.That way we can understand better your comments, although since no one in this section practice vedic, whatever you claim "whether is right or wrong" cannot be possibly argued astrogically.So that way you may feel safer to say things.

As far i am concerned, i think it would be better to stop this pointless argument whether in tropical is saturn the natural sig for pets, or whether is mercury, or whether you find another planet in these charts that can be the cat and so forth, or if the time is given by venus/mercury, saturn/jupiter or else.

I already explained so many times that:"time was never asked" but if someone wants to see it then can read the reasonable arguments above, about moon aspect to jupiter, or sun, etc...
I think we repeat us in our arguments. I said that I agree with u and u seems to understand why I said 4 units but nevertheless u don't want to understand why I give arguments with other methods. I saw the 4 units and then try to explain/chose arguments why it's so. Also I didn't analysed this chart in the vedic way primary. I'm always practising western astrology when it's a tropical chart. But because my "intuition" gave me 4 units, I compared it with the sidereal chart, which gave me again 4 units-so I wrote it. And both methods don't differ that much. You can turn the zodiac yourself and compare it with my explanation. Even if my explanations are wrong, I insist on that the time is seen in the chart. I don't say it because I want to insist on my opinion but it's my experience. tropical and sidereal always show the same outcome and time.
Even if I only read the chart with a sidereal zodiac without looking at the tropical, you would wonder how I come to 4 units.
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