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  #126  
Unread 11-11-2019, 05:45 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: No such thing as a bad chart?

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Originally Posted by wan View Post
Not quite sure what you are trying to say. Anyway, what is your issue with people designating others' charts as being bad? You think that people should not judge other people's charts?
Wan, your position isn't quite clear to me. No one is saying not to judge someone's chart. What is being questioned is chiseling in stone "This chart is Bad".
Why would you want to brand a chart as "bad"?

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  #127  
Unread 11-11-2019, 06:15 PM
chiamaria chiamaria is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wan View Post
Not quite sure what you are trying to say. Anyway, what is your issue with people designating others' charts as being bad? You think that people should not judge other people's charts?
Would you be OK with someone labeling your chart as bad?
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ElenaJ (11-11-2019)
  #128  
Unread 11-11-2019, 09:22 PM
wan wan is offline
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Re: No such thing as a bad chart?

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Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Wan, your position isn't quite clear to me. No one is saying not to judge someone's chart. What is being questioned is chiseling in stone "This chart is Bad".
Why would you want to brand a chart as "bad"?
Because it's human nature to pass judgments. On everything, but especially on other people. You yourself have probably considered someone or the things they do "bad".

Now it's my turn to ask you a question. Why do you react so strongly to people branding a chart as bad?

Also, I don't understand what you meant by "chisel in stone". If I say, "the weather is lousy today", am I also "chiseling in stone" that the weather is bad?

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Originally Posted by chiamaria View Post
Would you be OK with someone labeling your chart as bad?
Of course. My sense of self is not tied to my horoscope chart. If someone wants to consider my chart bad, it's no skin off my nose. Not a big deal at all.

Last edited by wan; 11-11-2019 at 09:46 PM.
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  #129  
Unread 11-12-2019, 04:44 AM
chiamaria chiamaria is offline
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Originally Posted by wan View Post
Of course. My sense of self is not tied to my horoscope chart. If someone wants to consider my chart bad, it's no skin off my nose. Not a big deal at all.
Well if that really is true, then good for you. I'd personally give them a generous dose of the middle finger if my chart were insulted that way.

I'm also not against judging others. It's impossible not to do so (and I find it sanctimonious and hypocritical when people say we never have a right to judge others, especially when they judge you for judging others. The irony), but I'm more meaning judgment in terms of discernment. You have a right to assess situations and people to decide if they may harm you or your loved ones in any way. Also yes, there are the universal judgments of "He/she cheated on you? What a piece of s***. I'm so sorry". Also positive judgments are judgments nonetheless. I more take issue when people are too nosy in others' affairs and start gossiping and judging their private lives without knowing the whole story. Better to mind their own business in those instances.

I also do see the chart as being part of the self as this is what it was when I first came into the world. If I don't see it as the roots of myself, then as far as I'm concerned I don't see much point in trying to understand my own chart or astrology in general for that matter.

Last edited by chiamaria; 11-12-2019 at 05:01 AM.
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  #130  
Unread 11-12-2019, 05:08 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: No such thing as a bad chart?

I just look for the functionality of the Natal-chart, starting with its strengths and intrinsic abilities. Then, I look for the obstacles that might interfere with them, and a way around those obstacles. The more obstacles, the more "difficult" and "challenging" the Chart, and the greater the rewards in dealing with those difficulties and challenges.
The word "bad" doesn't even enter into it.
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  #131  
Unread 11-12-2019, 05:41 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: No such thing as a bad chart?

"you react so strongly"
Am I? Sorry, I was just trying to express my point of view.
Re-reading the comments perhaps I should clarify. I don't see anything positive in telling someone their chart is "bad". I agree very much with David Starling's explanation, "I just look for the functionality of the Natal-chart, starting with its strengths and intrinsic abilities. Then, I look for the obstacles that might interfere with them, and a way around those obstacles."
My comments relate to what you should say to someone, not what my personal judgement of a chart might be, which is irrelevant to the person.
An interpretation should be helpful, not hopelessly negative.
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david starling (11-12-2019)
  #132  
Unread 11-12-2019, 06:07 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: No such thing as a bad chart?

A very Saturn-oriented Chart might seem "bad" to someone with a very Neptune-oriented one, and vice versa. I always like to know an openly judgemental astrologer's Natal-chart so I know what what's behind the judgements.
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  #133  
Unread 12-18-2019, 09:35 PM
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Kite Kite is offline
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Re: No such thing as a bad chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
I just look for the functionality of the Natal-chart, starting with its strengths and intrinsic abilities. Then, I look for the obstacles that might interfere with them, and a way around those obstacles. The more obstacles, the more "difficult" and "challenging" the Chart, and the greater the rewards in dealing with those difficulties and challenges.
The word "bad" doesn't even enter into it.
Very wise of you. Better to judge one's character than one's chart.
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david starling (12-18-2019)
  #134  
Unread 12-19-2019, 05:05 PM
AJ Astrology AJ Astrology is offline
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Re: No such thing as a bad chart?

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Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
Honestly, why would you tell someone they have a bad chart?
Hi passiflora,

You would tell them because of values such as honesty and integrity. Of course, that assumes you have those values

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Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Also, just because the potential is in the chart, it doesn't necessarily mean the person lives up to it to its fullest.
Hi ElenaJ,

The chart will tell you that, too. A chart will tell you if someone is lazy, a slacker or a dullard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
Bad chart doesn't make bad life. It all comes down to the free will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
A life without free will seems depressivr to me and victimized
Hi ardentika,

You don't have free will.

Astrology aside, from the moment of birth, you're shaped by your environment and learn to respond to stimuli in certain ways.

Those learned responses to stimuli control you for the rest of your life, because every time certain stimuli arise, you will respond exactly as you have learned and it is beyond your control.

Why do you think women refuse to leave abusive relationships? Because they don't have free will.

Ever see people in a "serious" relationship and then a month later break-up, and then 2 days later they're in a "serious" relationship and 2 weeks later they break up and then the next day they're in a "serious" relationship and 6 weeks later they break-up and then 3 days later they're in a "serious" relationship and that ends a month or two later?

That's because they don't have free will.

They simply cannot go more than 3 days without being in a "serious" relationship.

They learned from a very early age, and then reinforced by the media and social media and their friends that if they don't have someone attached to their hip 24/7 then then have no redeeming value whatsoever on this earth.

It doesn't mean they can't change, because they can, but it will take years of therapy and very hard work, assuming they even want to change in the first place (and most do not want to change).
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  #135  
Unread 12-19-2019, 05:12 PM
AJ Astrology AJ Astrology is offline
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Re: No such thing as a bad chart?

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Originally Posted by psycles3 View Post
If you do not believe that you chose your time, date and place of birth before you were born, i can see why you might think there are "bad" charts. Life as a human being is chosen by your soul, as are your parents and health, wealth, skills and proclivities. Have faith that you know/knew what you were doing.
Hi psycles3,

Do you realize the Greeks did not know what a cell was?

No one knew of the existence of cells until the year 1665 CE.

So, the Greeks did not know that the brain had cells and that electro-chemical reactions among those brain cells is what produced consciousness.

In order to explain something the Greeks could not possibly understand, they came up with the concept of a "soul."

If those Greeks were alive today, and they were aware that the human brain was highly specialized cells conducting electro-chemical reactions that produced consciousness, they would flat out reject the whole idea of a soul.

I guess the question is why do you cling to an ancient false concept predicated on ignorance?
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  #136  
Unread 12-19-2019, 05:38 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: No such thing as a bad chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
I just look for the functionality of the Natal-chart, starting with its strengths and intrinsic abilities. Then, I look for the obstacles that might interfere with them, and a way around those obstacles. The more obstacles, the more "difficult" and "challenging" the Chart, and the greater the rewards in dealing with those difficulties and challenges.
The word "bad" doesn't even enter into it.
This is a very positive approach that you outline.
When referring to a person what you see in their chart, there is a big difference between pointing out strengths (however few they may be), and ways of approaching solutions to obstacles, as opposed to telling them "This is a really bad chart, and unfortunately you don't have free will, so there you go".
Confronted with the latter, I'm not sure how many people would take courage in their hands and try to overcome.
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  #137  
Unread 12-19-2019, 05:46 PM
moonkat235 moonkat235 is offline
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Re: No such thing as a bad chart?

@AJ

Maybe a natal chart will tell you someone’s basic structure, but I thought a lot of trad astrology discusses how to time when certain parts of the chart ‘activate’.
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  #138  
Unread 12-19-2019, 08:13 PM
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passiflora passiflora is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Astrology View Post
Hi passiflora,

You would tell them because of values such as honesty and integrity. Of course, that assumes you have those values.
The world you live in sounds so.... conveniently packaged and full of rational actors.
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