An Aspect that I've never seen . . .

Hi - I'm trying to decipher a friend's chart which I ran on Astro.com.

Visually it is showing a bunch of squares but when I look at the aspect section, it doesn't indicate squares. Wondering if these visual squares are truly aspects? Is it some kind of grand square or something I'm unaware of.

He's got 3 planets in the 1H, 3 planets in the 7th (opposing the 1H ones), one in the 3rd and one in the 7th (opposing).

Don't exactly know how to attach a link in here, but here goes.
http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?nhor=4&nho2=3&btyp=2&mth=gw&hsy=&zod=&sday=19&smon=9&syr=2006&rs=&orbp=&cid=tc0filena8zHl-u1155140036&lang=e&gm=a1&ast=

Otherwise his birth data is March 5, 1965, 5:03pm. Aurora, Illinois USA

His chart is truly a wonder. Have never seen so many oppositions in my life. He has panic disorder and was also physically abused by his father which I think is shown through some of his oppositions.

Just curious if anyone else knows what a packed 7th house means? One astrologer I consulted said it indicates he has a wandering eye. Anyone else hold that view of a packed 7th house?

I believe the configuration you are referring to is called a Mystic Rectange, athough in my opinion, the series of oppositions between Uranus, Pluto and Mars in Virgo and Venus, Saturn, Sun, Chiron, and Mercury in Pisces is the most impressive feature of this chart...

Arian Maverick

...........Wow.

I think the problems with father could be from Saturn (father) in opposition (conflict, fight) with Mars (violence), Uranus (negative side: behaving like a mad person) and Pluto (destroyer)...

My chart is very similar except my planets are in the 12th opposing from the 6th and 7th.

Many oppositions...we can't be the only two...there has to be many more people like us. I have three planets in the 7th--venus, saturn and also my moon. I wouldn't say I have a wandering eye. That interpretation sounds archaic. What is considered packed, though? Maybe my three planets are not considered "packed". Either way, I don't believe the "wandering eye" theory. If anything, I would think a person would take relating very seriously, the focus of one's life.

7th house, to Dakota

Dakota,

Planets focused in a house in a chart indicates the person focuses on the issue of that house. With planets focused in the 7th house (relationships), it indicates this person focuses on relationships. The energy they bring to that focus is indicated by the type of planets in the house. With Saturn (duty, also structure) focused in the 7th house, this person may tend to want to have a stable relationship.

The challenge of the chart is that it is a "see-saw chart":

From Tracy Marks' "The Art of Chart Interpretation:"

Seesaw pattern - "Planets are divided into two groups, at least 60 degrees or two empty houses apart, with no more than one empty house within each group, and with at least one opposition...concerned with relationships, aware of alternatives, fluctuating between different parts of...[themselves], and attempting to maintain balance through...[their] ability to synthesize and compromise."

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This indicates this person may go "back and forth" from one extreme to the other in an effort to "balance out" their point of view. Since the 1rst house (being) and the 7th house is strongly emphasized, the "back and forth" is between focusing on themselves and focusing on those around them.

On the see-saw,

Tim

I have found the whole subject of aspect patterns very interesting. Last night I was reading through one of my Astrology books on this subject of conflicting personality.

Here is the information from my book the Instant Astrologer by Lyn Birkbeck

As you write your notes on the chart - or even if you don't - you will begin to notice a theme emerging. Usually there will be more than one theme, complementing or in conflict with the other one(s). Negatively, this could mean that the theme was that of two or more 'sub-personalities' vying for supremacy, or that the person was split, living two separate lives - neither an acceptable state. Such is often the case when there is a strong emphasis on one or more of the binary signs. These are the signs that are composed of two factors, namely Gemini (twins obviously); Libra (weighing or making the choice between two opposites or extremes, hence the indecisiveness of this sign); Sagittarius (horse and human, that is, animal versus cerebral/spiritual impulses); Capricorn (from the original nature of this sign, the Sea-Goat, with goat upper half and fish's tail, representing the earthly realm of commence and practicality versus the dreamy, mystical and emotional world); Pisces (two fish, one striving upstream, the other giving up/giving in, downstream fish). Another reason for 'splitting off ' is a chart where there are a lot of opposition aspects, or where there are possibly hidden or closed off areas such as Fourth, Eighth or Twelfth House placements can give rise too.

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My sister has no oppositions in her chart and this means she may find it hard to learn from her mistakes. Also having too many hard aspects in the chart can lead to mental, emotional or physical ill health. Too many soft aspects can make a person complacent, lazy and lack motivation.

Shining Ray

Wow!

As AM said - there is a mystic rectangles in the chart between Jup, Neptune, 1st house and 7th house planets.

http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/mysticrectangle_wedge.shtml

The other stuff is a whole pile of oppositions (or as Tim said, see-saw chart). I will adopt with others say, it is an extreme struggle that is occurring in your friend. He is very split between self-absorption (1st h) and partnership with another or relationships with others (7th h).

Also although the lines aren't drawn out, I notice a t-square between North Node at the apex, 1st house planets and chiron/sun. Obviously there is a struggle between person (ego)/wounds and instability or uniqueness, penetration/depth and drive for self. If he can somehow maintain his flexibilty and cover all areas (gemini NN) through his career (10th house) then he might use this to get over this internal conflict.

Also considering the NN shows something important according to relationships.

How?
I've read some books and by using Karmical Genitures of The Moon Nodes we can guess what type of events he will deal in he's life to reach he's goals. The Nodal guidance aspects between the NN and he's ruler Mercury it's about a distance of 84 degrees, thats the limit orb of the Martian karma ( also called Binovile karma )

Whats does this mean?

This type of karma it's strongly connected to relationships of the individuals life and the public activities. The person has to learn a lot in he's life in all kinda different domains, which is not easy. In relationships he could become an exploited person making him very unhappy. He has a high understandings of he's life experiences, but will view them better in deatached and izolated way. In life he will be forced to take difficult path's, he's efforts are high and will must take all the experiences in life as a teaching and evolution. He might have rough and cruel parrents or famaly members, expecialy a bigger brother or father.This type of karma is hard, but extremely evolutionary. This individual can be great at spiritual teachings, like yoga, meditation, ezoterics, theology etc cause he will find he's inner balance. When this karma was understood, the person becomes very idependent, very experienced with greater understanding of he's life and destiny.

The Nodes are such an interesting subject your personal growth and where you are headed in life. Plus what gets in the way of you following your path all can be indicated by the Nodes. Also with the heavy influence of conjunctions in this chart I always find them hard to interpret, but I guess it just backs up the two areas of life struggling to find balance between him self and others.

Shining Ray

I have been taking a sabbatical from chart-interpretation for a few days while I worked on some personal issues, but this chart just kept tugging at me, and I felt I was to reply.

This does indeed look like a chart where diamonds come out of the coal under extreme pressure!

I was struck by all the earth and water in the chart. The only Fire sign is his Moon, and the only Air are the True node and MC. He is really out of balance in this area, making it much more tough to overcome.

The main thing he has going for him is the Moon in Aries, but it is in the 8th. Every Aries Moon I have ever seen(and I've run onto quite a few) has a really deep problem with anger - usually repressed (if they are female, but some males repress it, as well) because they feel victimized in some sort -without rights. It's in the 8th, which further emphasizes this. In fact the main theme in this chart seems to be channeling the anger energy properly - and this is a lesson of mastery. Even his oppositions support this. It seems to me that his main lesson is to forgive his enemies, even if the enemy is his father. He needs to develop understanding and compassion( Pisces-7th). If he doesn't heal from this anger by seeking understanding through prayer and communication, his chart would show that he stands a good chance of turning out like his father. Even if he has determined he would "never be like him", the anger will eat him alive and come out in some hurtful way. Virgo also rules "blame", and a person who blames will always remain a victim.

There is also much in this chart that would tend to perfectionism and workaholism. Venus in Pisces in the 6th is the stereo-typical person who finds themselves "giving themselves away" by over-serving because they don't see things clearly, or feel they have no rights - that they are just here to serve people, and personal happiness is not for them. It is opposed by Uranus, which shows rebelling against this - perhaps a serious procrastinator?

He also has a focus on communication in his chart. This seems to be his way out. His True Node is in Gemini in the 10th. Through communication, he can learn self-authority. He needs to learn he has the right to say "NO", and mean it, and that no one truly has the power to run his life except himself. Writing his feeling out by journalling and/or a therapist would probably help him tremendously. Also, in communication - the Neptune in Scorpio in the 3rd opposing Jupiter in Taurus in the 9th. Was he raised in a fundamental, traditional type religion? It certainly looks like a strong possibility from the chart, especially considering the 4th house cusp is Sagittarius. It looks like there is a strong possibility religion could have been used to control him into submission - power struggle and deception in the 3rd opposing "bow down to religion who knows best" in the 9th. If this is not the case, it looks like someone was an insufferable know-it-all whose beliefs could not be questioned. If he was raised in a strict, controlling religion, learning about other religious belief systems would benefit him. (Gemini True Node in 10th). It is also very possible that money was used as power over him. (My house - my rules, type of thing.)

There is a lot of rebellion in this chart, as Uranus is conjunct the AC, but it is rebellion that gives power to the evil he is fighting. He probably has a lot of issues regarding work and service to others, and probably is a big procrastinator. Either that or is a workaholic and gets his self-worth out of how well he does his work. I see more "dropping out" type significators, though.

The mystic rectangle I see as the "big picture". When the negative emotions are released, and self-authority is learned, he has huge potential as a healer of some sort, as he is more than likely an empath. He also has much imaginative, creative potential, possibly an artist, musician, or writer. And with all the compassion he will have learned would be a great champion of those in similiar situations. He would possibly make a great therapist himself, as he would have mastered relationship skills/communication, which is what therapists and counselors do.

Dakota, I would appreciate any feedback you could give me as to how close to home this hits. I'm still learning.

Mars/Uranus/Pluto opposed Sun/Chiron is definitly the focus!

The lunar nodes turn the opposition into a angular mutable grand cross, while Jupiter/Neptune form the mystic rectange. that is one BIG emphesis on the 1st<>7th opposition of 5 objects.

there's plenty of tough lessons to be learned from relationships (Saturn on the dsc in the 7th) but Venus will help guide the situation (conjunct her own natal angle from the 6th)

Having both ends of the opposition in t-square to the lunar nodes means it has to be resolved. No ifs ands or buts, this life absolutely needs to resolve the opposition, and with the cross in mutable signs, the flexibility is there for resolution... angular houses further confirms the strength of the cross.

Mercury and Venus have strong linkage, they are in mutal reception by natural house rulership and the Sun sitting 1/4th of a degree from thier midpoint and with Pluto opposing the midpoint by only 1/10th of a degree. This links Mercury/Venus into the opposition just as strongly as the lunar nodes and the Jupiter/Neptune opposition.

That also implies the Sun/Pluto opposition is extremely tight, about 1/8th of a degree. The Moon makes 12th harmonic (semisextile/inconjunct) aspects to each end of this opposition, 1/8th degree to the Sun and 1/4 degree to Pluto. A twelfth harmonic chart shows the Sun sitting right in the center of a close Moon/Pluto conjunction.

Certainly a highly powerful chart!

Thanks to everyone for their insights.

Freedomlover, you asked specifically for feedback on how close to home your analysis hits.

Well, I dated this person for 2-1/2 months and had the misfortune of falling in love with him (prior to me really becoming astrology-educated --- think if I'd known anything about astrology beforehand, I would've steered clear of him)and we no longer talk so I probably don't know him well enough to comment accurately on everything, but, that being said, he doesn't show anger at all. In fact, can't deal with anyone who displays anger. Just runs from it, which makes sense considering the abuse by his father. So your comment about repressed anger due to an Aries moon in the 8th seems accurate (I also have the same moon placement and sign and would have to say that assessment seems to apply to me too). His mother was also agoraphobic and he seemed to have no to little relationship with his mother, could this also be indicated by an 8th house moon?

It does seem like he has forgiven his father (all his Pisces stuff). I remember when he first told me about him he sort of back-pedaled and was like, I don't want you to get the wrong idea, my father has done everything for me, I owe him so much.

But it's a combination of reverence and fear related to his dad it seems, but that would apply to a lot of abuse victims I would think and wouldn't be related to his chart in any way.

As for workaholism, he does take his work very seriously and most of his panic-disorder episodes seem work-related. As for procrastination, yes in personal projects (he was remodeling his house and not progressing very far on it and had pretty much given up all together).

He is artistic, likes to draw but hadn't done much of that in recent years. Just started getting interested in music 2 years ago and although he doesn't play an instrument, he had the most amazing ability to know/memorize lyrics. Like any lyric, he was like a human jukebox, constantly quoting lyrics. He says he just sees them/hears them in his head, he makes no effort to remember them. Honest to god, his ability as it relates to this was freakish/genius. I told him he had Asperger's syndrome, b/c that's how unbelievable it was.

As for rebellion, has a motorcycle, very unconventional lifestyle, pretty irresponsible. Definitely likes his freedom. Was married to a woman who he had been involved with since 19 and they divorced a couple of years ago. He had cheated on her with a couple of women and eventually his wife cheated on him and left him for the other man. He seems unable to get over this, even though he acknowledges that his behavior contributed to the demise of the marriage. His general attitude, which eventually led to us breaking up, is that he will be with whomever he wants, whenever he wants. He claims to be anti-commitment which he didn't come across at first and I certainly wouldn't have gotten involved with him if he had told me that in the beginning. It was my experience with him that led me to start brushing up on astrology to get a better understanding of him and our relationship. It turns out in synastry that my Venus squares his Sun, Saturn, Venus, Uranus and Pluto. Hmm, it's not surprising then that we didn't last Still, very disappointing. I think he is a very special person and I thought we made a good couple.

Anyway, you called him an empath - not exactly sure what that is, but he certainly claimed to be able to "feel" what other people were feeling. This kind of scared me because he once said I didn't have a heart and it made me wonder if that was true. I certainly feel like I have a lot of feelings, although I wasn't showing them a lot since he had indicated he didn't want an exclusive relationship.

You mentioned dropping out significators, not sure what that means. He is a big drinker and a pot smoker, has done other drugs in the past. Guess he is trying to escape both his childhood stuff and the failure of his marriage which he can't let go.

As for religion, no, he wasn't raised in a religious household. Has recently started to read a lot of Buddhist stuff.

Other factors about him: he needs a lot of attention and told me so when we first met; his straying from his wife seems to be ego-based, rather than a true rejection of his wife; I think he's one of those people that can't turn down the attention of any woman and also seeks the attention of every woman. He said he had a strong desire to save someone. I would see that with the large tips he gave young waitresses, he seemed to have waitress-fetish and I think it goes back to saving someone and having power over someone.

Just out of curiosity since you seem pretty astute at chart interpretation, would your advice to women be to steer clear of him? The whole Venus opposite Uranus aspect of his, etc.?

Anyway, I've written too much. Thanks again.

Dakota

Dakota,

It sounds like another Pisces trait (overidealism) is affecting your friend. It's actually pretty common in abused children (especially those with so much Pisces). To a small child, acknowledging that the parent may not actually be loving or the way they treat the child is wrong, is equal to a threat to survival. Therefore the tendency is for the small child to make the parent the good guy and themselves the bad guy. Apparently your friend has acknowledge the abuse, but I sense is still making excuses for his father. It's good that he sees his good point, as well, but I get the impression that he still is seeing things through a child's eyes. This is where the opposite polarity-all of that Virgo in the first - would come in handy. Virgo also rules focus and discernment - separating the wheat from the chaff. He may say he has forgiven his father, but the fact that he cannot deal with other people displaying anger at all says the opposite. Or at least he has more work in that department.

I think the situation you described with his mother not being close to him is a very big factor. In fact, I started to go into that on the last post, but it had already run on so long, that I left that out. I do think that the Aries Moon in the 8th could describe this well. Scorpio/8th rules abandonment issues, and the Aries moon there would show deeply buried resentment concerning that. It may very well seep to the surface in an obsessive type way - the "needing and seeking attention from every woman". It is obviously a very deep hurt with him. I think he is involved in a "push-me/pull-me" type of pendulum swing as to relationships with women. It very likely stems from the rejection of the mother. He would have a deep fear of rejection, but on top of that, take this scenario under consideration. He has such a gaping hole of needing to feel worthy of being loved and close to someone, that he keeps his "rose-colored glasses" on at first, and lets his desire come forth. But once he starts getting feeling for someone, and thinks they might get close to him - he pushes them away. This is not only from the feeling of rejection, but the feeling that he knows deep down inside that he wants them to love him so badly that he will give himself up for them. In other words, it is a threat to his identity. He's afraid he would wind up submitting his own will to theirs to get try to get their love. (Which is probably what he did as a child with his mother.) So he does what he feels he has to do - and pushes them away. This would be a good description of the Venus opposition Uranus, I would think.

This would be represented by the Moon in Aries in 8th pretty much incojunct Pluto in Virgo, in the 1st. It seems to take on an obsessive type energy, and shows he has a deep fear of being taken advantage of by someone. A lack of healthy boundaries and self-love lay at the bottom of all of this, I would think. Possibly all the squares in your synastry shows that you brought out all of this fear in him, despite the fact that he liked you alot (which you said you made a good couple). He has a deep fear of being "owned", but he is doing it to himself.

As to your having a relationship with him..... If you can see things for what they are -( no rose-colored glasses here!) I think he could use a good friend, especially one who has the benefit of astrologically understanding where he is coming from. However, if you think this guy is ready for a romantic relationship anytime soon, I would say "keep away" if that is what you have in mind, because he isn't ready in any way shape or form. If you think your emotional needs will pull you in that direction, and you won't be able to be just a friend to him(if he is willing for even that), I would say it's a heartache waiting to be repeated. He needs a lot of prayer. It's good that he is getting into some Buddhist ideas, that may help him find his way.

Since you said there was not a strict religion in his background, I had to do alot of thinking about the Jupiter in Taurus in the 9th. Other possibilities - that he has become very materialistic in place of emotional connections. Also the tie-in with Sag on cusp of the 4th: I have found very often that when you get the Sag/Cancer combination (as this one is)that it embodies the archetype of the push-me/pull me I described. They want a relationship with a woman, but feel that they would lose themselves in the relationship and be taken advantage of, so they don't let a relationship get to the point of true intimacy. It also could indicate the instability of his home life, or that his mother was extremely judgmental, opinionated, a lack of communication with her.

The drug and alcohol use is a big downside to all the Pisces, and is used to numb the pain he feels inside. He probably is very sensitive, and "yes" an empath does feel what others feel. If he has not sifted through his own emotional baggage, he probably has a hard time sometimes in not taking on other people's pain and carrying it himself - a downfall of an empath, and another reason he would emotionally distance himself from people. Pisces are also notorious for wanting to "rescue" others, (when it is usually a facet of themselves they need to "save").

As to his remark about you "not having a heart"...... if you're familiar with the concept of chakras..... An empath can often feel blockages in the chakras. What he may have been feeling was the fact that you had your heart chakra closed at that time - maybe blocked due to the sense of rejection you were feeling from him - that he did not want a commitment. That's the only thing that made sense to me.

One other thing I thought of with the Jupiter in Taurus in the 9th opposing the Neptune in Scorpio in the 3rd..... That might be the gift he has for song lyrics/music, which is probably waaayyy underdeveloped. Jupiter expands and it's in the 9th - so the connection to the higher realms, and in Taurus, which rules music. He may have a gift for "channeling" songs-lyrics, etc, like some of the great composers did. I read that Mozart and Beethoven received their inspiration like this. Neptune in Scorpio in the 3rd - the spiritual gift of songwriting, as a form of communication, perhaps?

One other idea for the Neptune in Scorpio in the 3rd. 3rd house rules siblings. He doesn't have a big case of sibling rivalry by any chance, does he?

One other thing - for you- in my Sagittarian bluntness, I'm afraid....You must have had quite a few blinders of your own on to have entered in the relationship as far as you did before. I know he didn't represent things as how he truly felt, but, also, I think you saw what you wanted to see and disregarded the rest to an extent. You said that you had the same Aries moon placement.... how far have you delved into your own issues? The partners we attract are a mirror of ourselves in some way..

Hope this helps.....

Dakota said:

would your advice to women be to steer clear of him? The whole Venus opposite Uranus aspect of his, etc.?

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Venus opposition Uranus is a great natal position in the chart if the other is seeking an exciting, dynamic relationship with plenty of supprises. Personally, I'd consider the placement benefic, but I've also had history of being subconsciously attracted to those with Venus/Uranus aspects, especially the conjunction. It's fun

Hello.

I am not sure if the chart you have has been correctly calculated as it may have the wrong orbs, House system and spurious information.

According to the chart I have, there are multiple oppositions giving rise to a see saw configurarion which would indicate great tension. To see a correct chart log in to my website and request one free - look under Horoscopes. www.firststop-astrology.com

The panic attacks are almost certainly due to an afflicted Moon in the 8th House.

Here's the chart as calculated by Astrolog32 with Koch houses...

The chart you sent is virtually impossible to read, containing far too many aspects. Aspects between the planets are sufficient to give a clear picture. I cannot see an aspect grid so I have no idea of the orbs being used. Also, I have no idea which aspects are in use; they should be restricted to major and minor aspects. Quintiles and the like should be avoided.

Koch Houses? Why would you pick this one out of the many quadrant systems on offer? Equal House works best.

JamesYoung said:

The chart you sent is virtually impossible to read, containing far too many aspects. Aspects between the planets are sufficient to give a clear picture. I cannot see an aspect grid so I have no idea of the orbs being used. Also, I have no idea which aspects are in use; they should be restricted to major and minor aspects. Quintiles and the like should be avoided.

Koch Houses? Why would you pick this one out of the many quadrant systems on offer? Equal House works best.

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JamesYoung... all astrologers are individual, they use thier own techniques and should not be argumented if they know what thier doing.
Equal it's not the best, it's used as the same importance as the other house types. Equal cannot be used in horary and niether in karma astrology because the iterceptated house/zodiac is not available. Therefor all house types have thier own importance and none is better than other.
Unukalhai's way of doing astrology works and that means he's techniques are corect.
Minor aspects have thier own meaning and importance, even quintiles.

Yes indeed, Astrologers are individuals. However, the standards used in Astrology are not variable - other than by fad and fashion - and need to be observed if any credibility is to be maintained. What would happen, for instance, if doctors or indeed any other professional person decided to do their own thing? We would have chaos. Individuality is alright, but there has to be structure. I am a professional Astrologer, and although I have my own ideas I work within they system seeking only to change things when evidence is available.

It has been shown that quadrant systems simply do not work - there are large areas of the globe where you cannot calculate a chart. Out of the many available why would you choose a particular one? Why not one of the others? Did you assess it carefully or simply adopt the idea from someone else. Intercepted Signs are used as an excuse for the anomalies of the system. How on earth can you have a Sign that doesn't rule a House? I don't know were you got the idea that Equal House cannot be used in Horary - it simply isn't true.

I never implied that minor aspects were not used. However, quintiles and the like are unproven and until someone shows us they do work they are not accepted as standard. Little pieces of rock known as asteroids are a similar fad eagerly leapt on by people who simply haven't bothered to do their research. Show me proof that they work and I will gladly accept them.

You say that your methods work. I would say they may appear to work but given the cluttered nature of the charts you are using I would imagine it is impossible to do a meaningful analysis.

Finally, my purpose in posting was not to cause an argument, mearly to express an opinion. Had you not dismissed my response in such an off-handed manner there would have been no need for me to comment further.