Was it right?
- Thread starter Pisces13
- Start date
Oddity
Well-known member
If you are asking 'is the prediction correct?' and not 'will I have a relationship in 2016?' we'd probably want to read it as an is the rumour true question.
Seventh house is the astrologer. The house of astrology is 9, not 11. The prediction itself falls under 9, predictions are 9th and 3rd house matters, not 11th or 12th (Sahl, if you need a reference, lots of others, too).
Jupiter, which rules the chart, is in a fixed sign in 9, all good. The astrologer is in domicile in 7, also helpful. And the moon is exalted, in a fixed sign in a good house. None of them are afflicted by the malefics, and none of them are peregrine, which is also good.
What I don't like is that the ruler of 9, the sun, is afflicted by a malefic, and that both malefics are angular by counting.
So I'm not really sure here. My feeling is that there may be a relationship, but it may not be the one you want. Hope I'm wrong, but that sun-Mars conjunction isn't a nice thing to see here.
Seventh house is the astrologer. The house of astrology is 9, not 11. The prediction itself falls under 9, predictions are 9th and 3rd house matters, not 11th or 12th (Sahl, if you need a reference, lots of others, too).
Jupiter, which rules the chart, is in a fixed sign in 9, all good. The astrologer is in domicile in 7, also helpful. And the moon is exalted, in a fixed sign in a good house. None of them are afflicted by the malefics, and none of them are peregrine, which is also good.
What I don't like is that the ruler of 9, the sun, is afflicted by a malefic, and that both malefics are angular by counting.
So I'm not really sure here. My feeling is that there may be a relationship, but it may not be the one you want. Hope I'm wrong, but that sun-Mars conjunction isn't a nice thing to see here.
if astrologer = 7 and prediction = 9, then both the astrologer and the prediction are in detriment of querent. this is ok for the astrologer because it means he/she is strong in domicile. looks bad for the prediction though - sun in detriment of querent, applying to mars? in domicile of astrologer? seems to me like an argument for a useless prediction - useless to the querent, that is.
Osamenor
Staff member
These different definitions of 8th and 12th houses reflect the differences between modern and traditional astrology. I believe horary works mostly or exclusively with traditional definitions, but I'm not 100% sure of that... someone who knows horary, please fill that in!
The traditional indicators for 8th and 12th are also acknowledged in modern astrology, but it doesn't stop there. Modern astrology seems to take a more big picture view: 8th house isn't just death and fear and traumatic things, it's also what's at the root of death and fear and traumatic things, or where those things can take you. Ultimately, that kind of experience takes you a little outside yourself: grieving the death of a loved one, having the visceral experience brought on by fear, experiencing the catharsis brought on by a traumatic meltdown....
But there are also healthier ways to get a little bit outside of yourself, and that includes such things as exploring the occult (assuming you do it with appropriate respect!), which can in turn mean something like divination, and astrology is a form of divination. Twelfth house, same thing: from a modern astrology view, it's ultimately about transcendence and mysticism and universal love. Its traditional indicators are the kinds of experiences that lead to transcendence. Most people live wholeheartedly in the world, while transcendent experiences take you out of the world. For those who don't ever choose to seek out transcendent experiences, the only way they happen is when you're forcibly removed from the world, such as by isolation or exile or confinement or illness.
Oddity
Well-known member
They're pretty much bad houses, though. In traditional astrology, the 12th can indicate great sacrifice (I would consider that bad - we're talking huge, life-altering, not-for-me stuff), and the 8th, of course, can be spousal assets, or inheritance.
But the way you get to inheritance is by the death of someone you love.
12th can be large animals, like race horses. Maybe you can make money with them.
But realistically, both those houses, and the sixth, tend to be about largely unpleasant things. And for most people those aren't 'growth experiences', they're just plain losses. Or if you do grow from it, the price far, far outweighs the cost. I shudder to think that I could recast the death of a loved one to 'a learning experience' - you know?
Osamenor
Staff member
Great sacrifice like that could also be something like Siddartha Gautama leaving his home, family, and position and becoming the Buddha. Or Jesus on the cross. The kind of thing painted up so rosily by religion, but actually quite nasty, especially in the case of Jesus. It's surely no coincidence that the idealization of the Crucifixion in Christianity, and the use of the cross as a religious symbol, didn't even begin until the generations that had known actual crucifixions had died out.
But there are definitely spiritual implications in all of that. Maybe modern astrology gets too rosy sometimes. However, from a modern astrology perspective, I have an eighth house sun and twelfth house moon in my birth chart, and I see lots of personal growth/spirituality/transcendence theme in my life. Then again, a modern chart is about self while a traditional chart is about circumstance, so we're not necessarily looking at the same meanings. And horary astrology is about asking simple questions with simple answers, so there shouldn't be any need to delve into all the complexity of what the various houses can mean in order to answer a horary question.
Of course the price far outweighs the cost. The death of a loved one is the death of a loved one, in all its pain and grief and nastiness. It would be a disservice to anyone grieving to call it anything else.
But at the same time, those things happen. It's part of the complexity of life. And astrology is no less complex.
On the subject of horary, is it true that horary works with traditional house meanings exclusively, or at least mostly? That's the sense I get.
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Oddity
Well-known member
Some folks have attempted to create psychological horary - my advice would be to not go there, it's a mess. There are methods of reading the question behind the question, or where the mind of the querent really is, but those are traditional.
And there are modern astrologers who do horary as well, using modern meanings. I don't find it to be terribly effective, so I don't use it. Most people find trad astrology to work better with horary, which makes sense, since horary is about making verifiable predictions. 'Is he my soulmate?' won't fly in horary.
'Will we get married?' on the other hand, works just fine.
And there are modern astrologers who do horary as well, using modern meanings. I don't find it to be terribly effective, so I don't use it. Most people find trad astrology to work better with horary, which makes sense, since horary is about making verifiable predictions. 'Is he my soulmate?' won't fly in horary.
'Will we get married?' on the other hand, works just fine.