Accident Proneness

greybeard

Well-known member
I have a friend who seems bent on self-destruction, on taking his body apart piece by piece. He is a young man in his 20s and loves excitement. He rides motorcycles up mountainsides and occasionally, on the way down, goes a bit too fast and crashes. Things like that. Not too long ago he was involved in a 4-wheeler accident that did serious, probably permanent, damage to his shoulder. He underwent surgery on the shoulder, and the day he was released from the hospital seriously injured his knee and turned right around and went back to the hospital. He now lives in constant pain, and I expect this will persist during his lifetime.

Here is what the Psychiatric Dictionary says, in part, about this sort of thing.
Accident Proneness – “Liability or tendency toward involvement in mishaps that cause some pain or injury to the subject. It has long been recognized in industrial psychiatry that the majority of accidents occur within a comparatively small percentage of the total work force, and that that same percentage tends to be involved in multiple accidents. In many [instances] a tendency to repeated accidents appears to be an expression of deep-seated personality traits and unconscious conflicts.
The typical accident-prone person is a young male who is decisive or even impulsive; he concentrates upon immediate pleasures and satisfactions and acts on the spur of the moment. He likes excitement and adventure, eschewing planning and preparation. Often he will be found to have been reared strictly and harbors an unusual amount of resentment against authority; he is a rebel who cannot tolerate even self-discipline. At the same time he feels guilty about his rebellion, but in the unconsciously provoked accident he is able to express his resentment and to atone for his rebellion through the injury.”

28 March 1985; 0400; Flagstaff, Arizona 35N12, 111W39

I read this passage from the dictionary to him and two friends who know him well. We all had a good laugh.
 

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greybeard

Well-known member
This little essay has had some 35 readers so far, without comment.

Among the 35 there must be at least a few who are self-appointed "students of astrology."

I wonder how many of them have taken the chart data, or the horoscope itself, and saved it to some arcane file on their hard drive for reference and study. I wonder how many of them have taken the time to discover, within the horoscope, the indications of the symptomatic personality traits and unconscious conflicts that go into the making of an accident prone person.

Not many I suspect.

There is only one way to learn astrology, and that is by the careful study of horoscope charts compared to actual personalities and lives. No amount of book-learning and astrology forum chit-chat will accomplish the goal.

I posted this essay and chart in hopes it might be useful to someone in their study. But it cannot be useful if you don't use it.

Fixed cross: Mars opposes Pluto, Pluto much the stronger of the two. This asterism is a sure indicator of force, compulsion, violence. The chart pattern (overall distribution of all planets in the chart) is a Locomotive type (2/3 of the sky with planets more or less evenly distributed, with the space of a trine empty), and Pluto is at the cutting edge of the pattern. Because Pluto is brought to high focus in this chart (therefore very powerful and of broad influence), the opposition to Mars, and the Fixed cross must become prominent features of the life.

OK, then. The cross is focused on Jupiter in Aquarius at the Ascendant (5 degrees) but in the self-destructive 12th house.
Look how "force, compulsion, violence" are turned toward the self [that's what that cross does -- look at it; it points right at the Ascendant, the self, the body], and in particular the physical body [Ascendant]. The rising planet is sorely afflicted by that violent opposition.

Notice Saturn up there, right by the MC? He is disjunct; he beholds no aspect major or minor to any other planet. The energies of Saturn, and everything represented by that planet - universally as well as specifically - are cut off from the rest of the self, isolated, perhaps out of reach or unavailable. Saturn is the father figure, and the planet is conjunct the parental axis. Saturn is "strict" (see the psychiatric dictionary), hard, cold, rigid and can be pitiless and cruel. Did the dictionary mention "...not even self-discipline"? Saturn is the planet of discipline (universal meaning) and is posited at the 10th cusp (house of authority), but this young man "resents and cannot accept authority" [detached and freedom-seeking Uranus (in Sagittarius no less) inhabits the Tenth, is opposed to the detached Gemini Moon]. How then will the universe bring him the discipline he needs (as we all do)? Why does he resent authority of any sort?...The chart just told us about the father (authority figure) and how he was out of reach and unavailable, was strict, rigid, cold. The whole story is right here. And Saturn rules both the 12th and 1st. You will not find this sort of interpretation of the position in any book; you must study THIS chart and let it speak to you.

The psychiatric dictionary painted the portrait of this young man in one brief definition. When reading it among the friends we laughed heartily because it seemed as though it was written just for this man. And the horoscope paints exactly the same portrait.
 
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Frisiangal

Well-known member
This little essay has had some 35 readers so far, without comment.

Among the 35 there must be at least a few who are self-appointed "students of astrology."

I wonder how many of them have taken the chart data, or the horoscope itself, and saved it to some arcane file on their hard drive for reference and study. I wonder how many of them have taken the time to discover the indications of the symptomatic personality traits and unconscious conflicts that go into the making of an accident prone person.

Not many I suspect.

There is only one way to learn astrology, and that is by the careful study of horoscope charts compared to actual personalities and lives. No amount of book-learning and astrology forum chit-chat will accomplish the goal.

I posted this essay and chart in hopes it might be useful to someone in their study. But it cannot be useful if you don't use it.

a tendency to repeated accidents appears to be an expression of deep-seated personality traits and unconscious conflicts
.

I would have replied that,
with MEAN Black Moon Lilith on (intercepted?) 22Aries in the 2nd house of life's values, sextile Moon, ruler 6th house, conjunct Mercury, ruler 4th and 8th houses, and Venus, ruler 3rd and co-8th, as well as trine Uranus, modern ruler Ascendant, the deep inner craving towards 'daring to exist' becomes physically personified through the planets to aid a Sun in Aries achieve it.

But I know you don't think such a point worthy of discussion, and my previous interchange of thought to you regarding alternative astro. perspectives was deleted by the 'unseen' chief moderator and I vanished into thin air .... transiting MEAN BML in Gemini conjunct MC-Uranus.

Best I leave it for someone else to tackle :wink: :smile:.

P.S. You added to your post whilst I was writing mine.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
Here's my interpretation of the accident prone guy's chart. I posted this here instead of just putting it on the schizoid thread where it's not irrelevant but not entirely relevant.


Jupiter Rising - relies on luck, not a problem in and of itself, plus the sign (in tropical) is sanguine
Moon opp. Uranus - erratic in affected areas
Saturn has no orb aspects
Mars opp. Pluto - thinks they're invincible
Heavily Air and Fire chart
 

Sweet Pea

Well-known member
Ha, what a great example of the recklessness of Asteroid Ate (# 111) .... (nothing to do with food!)

Asteroid Ate is found at 10 Cancer in the 5th house, exactly inconjunct Jupiter on the Ascendant, and within 3 degrees of a square to his Aries Sun.

Read about Ate here -

http://www.theoi.com/Daimon/Ate.html

"ATE was the spirit (daimona) of delusion, infatuation, blind folly, rash action and reckless impulse who led men down the path to ruin."

I've been unable to find an asteroid that would correspond to the Litai, the 'prayers' who followed after Ate, cleaning up the mess that she strewed everywhere.

Vesta is also conjunct Pluto at 3 Scorpio. Do you think he has/had a death wish?

.
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
The typical accident-prone person is:

1. A young male who is decisive or even impulsive;
2. He concentrates upon immediate pleasures and satisfactions and
3. Acts on the spur of the moment.
4. He likes excitement and adventure, eschewing planning and preparation.
5. Often he will be found to have been reared strictly and harbors an unusual amount of resentment against authority;
6. He is a rebel who cannot tolerate even self-discipline.
7. At the same time he feels guilty about his rebellion,
8. But in the unconsciously provoked accident he is able to express his resentment and to atone for his rebellion through the injury.”


These are the recognized criteria for "Accident Proneness" I am looking for, using only the ten major bodies.

I find that the criteria are all met, using only the ten major bodies to describe the personality/life.

If I don't find that the all of the criteria are met, using only 10 planets, there are 2 possibiities:

1. He is not accident prone according to estabished psychiatric standards, or
2. I am an astrologer who needs to hit the books and sharpen my tools.

Here we were lucky.
We have a subject known to be accident prone.
Using only the ten planets we found that all 8 criteria for the condition are met.

This means we used recognized psychiatric standards for defining the condition and
Stuck to a disciplined approach to astrological analysis.
 

Satine

Well-known member
This is an interesting thread! I know someone who is like this, meets the criteria for accident proneness but never gets hurt! This guy has rolled a car, been hit in the face with a flying tube on his motorcycle traveling at freeway speeds, ridden his motorcycle 120mph drunk, and more but he always walks away uninjured. It hasn't helped his.'I'm invincible' attitude. Is there anything in a chart that can signify something protective like that?
 

!4C

Well-known member
The typical accident-prone person is:

1. A young male who is decisive or even impulsive;
2. He concentrates upon immediate pleasures and satisfactions and
3. Acts on the spur of the moment.
4. He likes excitement and adventure, eschewing planning and preparation.
5. Often he will be found to have been reared strictly and harbors an unusual amount of resentment against authority;
6. He is a rebel who cannot tolerate even self-discipline.
7. At the same time he feels guilty about his rebellion,
8. But in the unconsciously provoked accident he is able to express his resentment and to atone for his rebellion through the injury.”
.
That seems like a very specific profile.

The most common types of accident proneness I see are:
(1) Clumsiness due to physical debilitation or debilitation of motor control processing (poor coordination between muscle control and environmental feedback).
(2) Inefficiency in processing environmental awareness during focused thought.

None of these two imply rebelliousness, hyperactivity, or impulsiveness. I don't think there is any advantage to #1 unless you can prove that lost brain processing went into boosting other faculties. However, I can see #2 would have trade-offs for specialization.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Well then, Find those symptoms described in the horoscope and you have your diagnosis.

This thread is not about accident proneness.

It is a demonstration of how to determine if a person has a certain syndrome.....
like psychopathy, homosexuality, bipolar disorder, or falsifies expense account receipts.

It is an alternative to asking "What aspect indicates _______? (fill in the blank.)"
That doesn't work very well.

Instead of thinking in terms of a planetary aspect, it is often more useful to think in terms of the psychological and experiential effects of the aspect. What are the actual dynamics at play?

Here, if you know the symptoms of some disorder or aberration and happen to notice them accumulating in the chart....or if you are looking for something in particular... you can make an intelligent diagnosis and design an appropriate healing or adjustment process.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
The typical accident-prone person is:


2. He concentrates upon immediate pleasures and satisfactions
REMINDS ME OF VENUS
3. Acts on the spur of the moment.
REMINDS ME OF MARS
4. He likes excitement and adventure, eschewing planning and preparation.
REMINDS ME OF MARS
5. Often he will be found to have been reared strictly
REMINDS ME OF SATURN
and harbors an unusual amount of resentment against authority;
REMINDS ME OF URANUS
6. He is a rebel who cannot tolerate even self-discipline.
REMINDS ME OF URANUS
7. At the same time he feels guilty about his rebellion,
REMINDS ME OF SATURN
8. But in the unconsciously provoked accident he is able to express his resentment and to atone for his rebellion through the injury.”
REMINDS ME OF MARS

Just some possible affinities...
 

Birch Dragon

Well-known member
What a great thread. Yes, Greybeard, it comes out clearly that this thread is not essentially about accident proneness... I can see that the accident prone young man is merely the example to make or practice a much wider point: Look at what astrology can diagnose!
It's amazing to me what you and the many other well studied/practiced astrologers can see in a natal chart.
So, if this thread is not really about accident proneness but about the power of astrology, let me ask a further question about that.
It seems to me that when most people come to astrologers - even on this site - they tend to be looking for two things: diagnose but also prescription.
That is, people seem to be asking "why?" but also "and what can I do about it?"

The immediate question, then, aimed just at the level of Greybeard's example, is: "Does astrology also give us any special insight into what this young man can do to curb his accident proneness, to be less of a danger to himself in the future?"

But the wider, more general question about the power of astrology is this: "Is astrology merely descriptive? Is it a language that merely tells us what is (and maybe gives us a metaphysical reason for why it is)? Do astrologers diagnose but then leave prescription to psychologists and councilors? Or does the language of astrology also offer something special in the way of prescriptive insight? Does the language of astrology help us see ways in which we can all unlock our particular "syndromes" or challenges, to perfect or at least to better manage ourselves?"


(Quick note: and I don't mean to offend or start a political debate, but I wouldn't put homosexuality in as a syndrome - even as an innocuous syndrome like collecting receipts...)
 
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fullmoonlibra

Well-known member
I am accident prone: I have Mars square Moon. Makes me very clumsy.
It's even funny in my case, because it always happen on very hilarious ways. And then people say:"there she goes again. She dropped it.."

The last time I dropped something was when I was peacefully drinking tea and suddenly my knee hitted the teaglass and I spilled tea all over me..
It was just funny, because there was nothing around and I still managed to hit somewhere..
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
"Does astrology also give us any special insight into what this young man can do to curb his accident proneness, to be less of a danger to himself in the future?"

But the wider, more general question about the power of astrology is this: "Is astrology merely descriptive? Is it a language that merely tells us what is (and maybe gives us a metaphysical reason for why it is)? Do astrologers diagnose but then leave prescription to psychologists and councilors? Or does the language of astrology also offer something special in the way of prescriptive insight? Does the language of astrology help us see ways in which we can all unlock our particular "syndromes" or challenges, to perfect or at least to better manage ourselves?".)

Some of us (me included) will answer a definite YES to this question: the field is known as "remedial astrology"-not much cultivated (practiced) in the West since the Renaissance time, but still a very integral part of both Vedic and Chinese astrological practice right up to the present time.
 

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
I haven't read the posts, except the first one, but it is no surprise to me that this individual is accident prone. The stand out features is the heavy emphasis on the masculine polarity, equally divided between fire and air. He has Jupiter conjoined the ascendant, with a tight square from Mars, and a loose square from Mars to the ascendant. That alone would make someone accident prone because of rash behavior and a rash personality. With such a tight square from Mars to Jupiter, the latter in such a strong position, it is inevitable. This tendency is further emphasized with the opposition from Uranus to the Moon, both planets coming from volatile signs. Saturn, the ruler of calamity (along with Mars) is the ruler of the ascendant and is conjoined to the midheaven, under Martian rulership. Three of the five personal planets are in the sign of Aries, the most impetuous sign of the zodiac.
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
Most people live life acccording to a system of conventional thought that precludes facing reality. They operate within the parameters of some sort of established assumption (whether their own or the collecive's) which is fundamentally an itententional self-delusion that makes it unecessary and virtually impossible to see reality for what it is (especially the reality of self) and puts it beyonde reachl.

An exttreme example of this (but one which is found in over a third of the population,, I'm sure) is the use of drugs to mask syndromes. If the syndrome is masked (if there is no pain, no sense of urgency, no suffering) then there no longer exists any reason to address the problem. Self-delusion works in the same way. For the mind that refuses to look at reality, astrology is likely nothing more than a descriptive art. But even if this is so, as descriptive it provides a map of the terrain, which at some point in time may prove useful to the prisoner of delusion....if and when it becomes imperative to escape or die.

Sydney Lanier, in his poem The Symphony, says "Swinehood hath no remedy." "Neither cast ye your pearls before swine," says Jesus. A rose is a rose is a rose," proclaims Gertrude Stein.

A horoscope describes the rose and the swine. It does not promise to make a rose of a pig.

Most of us live our lives based on unconscious impulse. The conscious mind, generally, is only used in response to the impulse, as a means to effect it.

As long as our motivations remain unconscious we are bound by Fate. The descriptive powers of the horoscope can bring to consciousness that which is unconscious, a first step toward liberation.

We also note that the planets, in their inherent natures, contain the good and the bad. They contain weakness and they contain power. The solution is inherent in the problem. Positive manifestation is only the flip of a switch away from the negative; change the attitude and the perspective -- relatively easy to do and within the power of nearly everyone -- and the manifestation will change by itself.

So, in my opinion, the answer to your question is yes and no. Most people act from basically unconsicous drives, and are bound by fetters of conventional (and distorted) perceptions. Those who have attained to consciousness are not so bound, and find their remedies within the chart. A person with the desire to become more than they are, who is willing to adopt new persepectives (Marshall McLuhan: "Perception is reality."), and who "seeks truth" (strives to grow in consciousness) may benefit directly from astrology's insights.

Our accident-prone friend is liable to remain accident-prone because his self-destructive inclinations are rooted deep in the unconscious, where they are not much subject to change.

The ultimate question is: "Are you ready to change?" If it is your time and destiny for that (for another step along the way), then Providence will provide the means.
 
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