Orbs?

something i haven't looked into yet, which is very important, is orbs.

i understand that astro.com is a bit giving in the aspects because of there orbs.

what i would like to know, is what are generaly considered an 'ok' for an aspect based on orbs?

please tell me..


what is usually the maximum orbs given for:

trines
sextiles
squares
conjunctions
oppositions

and i wouldn't mind knowing the other aspects - semi-sextile, semi-square, etc.

i know astrologers debate this, but surely some one or everyone here can give me a basic idea/guide line of the orbs for those aspects.

also, on the natal charts from astro, what does it mean when the orb has a - sign next to it?

Lol hey Les,

I generally cut down orbs to 60- 70% on astro. So that's about 7-8 degrees for conj. opp. square and trine, and about 5 to 6 for sextiles. Not all aspects are equal though, even if in orb. The closer the aspect the more important it is. Also a separating aspect is weaker than an applying one. An applying one is when the planets are moving into an aspect. A separating one is when they made the aspect before you were born and are moving away from it.

So a close applying aspect is the strongest.

I think the minus signs show separating aspects... but check on the charts to see if this is right. If in doubt, if you click on advanced tables, they have their aspects with little 's' and 'a' which is easier to figure out.

I virtually ignore semi-sextile and semi square. You might like to look at quintiles for extra craziness!

There is also the stellium-orb principle, which is that if lots of planets are together, they act as one giant super conjunction, even if individually by orb some are not in conjunction. Eg Mercury at 1 degrees Aries, Venus at 6 degrees Aries, Mars at 12 degree Aries and Sun at 18 degrees, and moon at 24 Aries would all be considered conjunct, but with greater leeway in interpretation. You're focusing on the Arian nature of all the planets rather than the simple cookbook interpretations of Mercury conjunct Moon for instance... (That would be unwise.) I put Mars in the middle there on purpose to show how in rulership it can act as an even stronger integrator, binding the other planets together. If Venus was in the middle, it would have been a weaker stellium conjunction pattern as Venus is in detriment in Aries.

Also, say a trine to one planet, would be interpreted in a wider sense as a trine to the Arian energy. (Not a trine to ALL the planets separately.) And as Mars is in the middle and is stronger, as a trine to Mars.

Hope that helps! Sorry I keep editing so much

The_Sundance_Kid said:

Lol hey Les,

I generally cut down orbs to 60- 70% on astro. The closer the aspect the more important it is. Also a separating aspect is weaker than an applying one. An applying one is when the planets are moving into an aspect. A separating one is when they made the aspect before you were born and are moving away from it.

So a close applying aspect is the strongest.

I think the minus signs show separating aspects... but check on the charts to see if this is right. If in doubt, if you click on advanced tables, they have their aspects with little 's' and 'a' which is easier to figure out.

I virtually ignore semi-sextile and semi square. You might like to look at quintiles for extra craziness!

Click to expand...

i wouldn't ignore them, i think they are accurate, well, atleast the Quincunx is. for me atleast.

i understood the s, and a sign, its just the minus/ sign i don't understnad, because some of the s signs didn';t have a minus next to them. and so did some of the 'A' signs.

and yeh, i understand the closer the orbs are the more stronger that aspect will feel. but i wan't a guide line or an idea. i think some aspects tend to not need as tight orbs as the others.

I think the S and As and the minuses don't match up when some planets involved are retrograde. Or something.

And yeah the quincunx I think is important too, I don't understand it though! I don't think the other two are important though, and I don't really use the sesquiquadrate or whatever it's called. There is another aspect, the quindecile which I am undecided on so you might find that interesting

do you think all orbs are equal for aspects, or do you think certain aspects are still quite accurate with wider orbs?

e.g., square aspects are felt quite strong still with a wider orb than say trine or sextile?

do you also think certain planets influence how wide an orb can be?

I think the big four (conj, opp, squ, tri) have very similar orbs but the others less so- i even think 5-6 is generous for sextiles, i'm thinking 4 degrees is a better orb. So no, a square aspect would not have a bigger orb just for being a square. The only exception to this is the stellium thing I mentioned earlier.

Some people say the sun and moon have bigger orbs as they are bigger in the sky. I'm not sure. I think the more important a planet is the wider the orb used might be, but in practice it would make little difference: if the planet is strong, the orb will be wider, but the strong planet would dominate the aspect more, making the aspect less meaningful in the first place. So as a short cut I wouldn't increase the orbs at all.

I agree with most of the above, except noone has given the orb for qunincunx 3'max....

I dont even bother with semi square, quintile ect, cos there are minor aspects and you can drive yourself nuts with wide orbs. You have to remember internal mathematical aspects are 'facets' of your personality, some you may recognise straight away cos they are Angular, others harder cos they could be Cadent (hidden in back storeroom)...

There are lots of things to take into consideration when learning, above the horizon or below, lots planets left side or right. Then elements, earth, air, fire, water, then quadruplicities, cardinal, fixed & mutable...

astrologer50 said:

I agree with most of the above, except noone has given the orb for qunincunx 3'max....

I dont even bother with semi square, quintile ect, cos there are minor aspects and you can drive yourself nuts with wide orbs. You have to remember internal mathematical aspects are 'facets' of your personality, some you may recognise straight away cos they are Angular, others harder cos they could be Cadent (hidden in back storeroom)...

There are lots of things to take into consideration when learning, above the horizon or below, lots planets left side or right. Then elements, earth, air, fire, water, then quadruplicities, cardinal, fixed & mutable...

Click to expand...

ok so the guide line/average consideration for orbs is 5?

so should i type in 50% on astro?

plus and minus signs, to Sundance

Sundance,

You said:

The_Sundance_Kid said:

I think the minus signs show separating aspects... but check on the charts to see if this is right. If in doubt, if you click on advanced tables, they have their aspects with little 's' and 'a' which is easier to figure out.

Click to expand...

No, the truth is more confusing than that. "A" indicates "applying" and "S" indicates "separating". But the "+" indicates "the aspect is larger than it would be, were it exact" and the "-" indicates "the aspect is smaller than it would be, were it exact". More here:
http://www.astro.com/faq/fq_fh_legend_e.htm

And so far no one has been able to explain what this means!

Confused by astro.com,

Tim

orbs are personal to the astrologer, to Miserables

Miserables,

You said:

LesMiserables said:

what are generaly considered an 'ok' for an aspect based on orbs?

Click to expand...

Orbs (how close a planet or point has to be to another planet or point to be considered "in aspect" to it) are VERY personal issues, and VERY strongly defended by astrologers. Ask 10 different astrologers what their orbs are in their chart and you may receive 10 different answers! That said, here are my answers:

I use wider orbs on the Sun and Moon (sometimes referred to as "the lights") than on the other planets.

So, first, orbs for "the lights":
Conjunction - 10 degrees
Opposition - 10 degrees
Square - 10 degrees
Trine - 7 degrees
Sextile - 7 degrees
Quincunx - 4 degrees


And orbs for the other planets:
Conjunction - 8 degrees
Opposition - 8 degrees
Square - 8 degrees
Trine - 5 degrees
Sextile - 5 degrees
Quincunx - 3 degrees

These are the only aspects I use. Since astro.com doesn't allow setting orbs separately for different aspects and planets, it is of limited use to me. So, if possible, I will calculate charts on my home computer instead of on astro.com.

Orbing,

Tim

Re: orbs are personal to the astrologer, to Miserables

wilsontc said:

Miserables,

You said:


Orbs (how close a planet or point has to be to another planet or point to be considered "in aspect" to it) are VERY personal issues, and VERY strongly defended by astrologers. Ask 10 different astrologers what their orbs are in their chart and you may receive 10 different answers! That said, here are my answers:

I use wider orbs on the Sun and Moon (sometimes referred to as "the lights") than on the other planets.

So, first, orbs for "the lights":
Conjunction - 10 degrees
Opposition - 10 degrees
Square - 10 degrees
Trine - 7 degrees
Sextile - 7 degrees
Quincunx - 4 degrees


And orbs for the other planets:
Conjunction - 8 degrees
Opposition - 8 degrees
Square - 8 degrees
Trine - 5 degrees
Sextile - 5 degrees
Quincunx - 3 degrees

These are the only aspects I use. Since astro.com doesn't allow setting orbs separately for different aspects and planets, it is of limited use to me. So, if possible, I will calculate charts on my home computer instead of on astro.com.

Orbing,

Tim

Click to expand...

thanks for your reply tim, just what i was looking for!

most of that sounds about right, what im starting to think personally though, is (especially for conjunction aspect) is that anything that is in the 10 degree range, you can feel it slighlty, its not a conjunction, but a slight influence of it is there. but you only really feel it properly until its something of 7 degrees or less.

thats what im starting to think. i think sextiles and trines should be tighter.

closer is stronger, to Miserables

Miserables,

You said:

LesMiserables said:

what im starting to think personally though, is (especially for conjunction aspect) is that anything that is in the 10 degree range, you can feel it slighlty, its not a conjunction, but a slight influence of it is there.

Click to expand...

I agree with you. And the closer the aspect is, the more strongly it is felt. If a person has an aspect with a 0 degree orb (i.e., it is "Exact") then that is a BIG issue in their life.

Exactly,

Tim

And orbs for ALL planets:

Conjunction - + 8 degrees
Opposition - + 8 degrees
Square - + 8 degrees
Trine - + 6 degrees
Sextile - + 6 degrees
Quincunx - + 3 degrees

I dont use 10' orb for 'lights' cos i think it's too wide. I just use these above

Here's an article about aspects, just scroll down about halfway and there's a part about orbs.

http://ryoin.wordpress.com/2008/08/10/aspects/

Hope it helps.

Oh yeah, don't forget to look at the comment on that one. I almost forgot... it's important.

Lol, ok I'll put some numbers on what I use, sorry if I rambled alot before. More of a word person than a number one.

Conjunctions/ Oppositions / Squares / Trines

Less important planets:
7 degrees applying,
5-6 degrees separating

More important planets:
8 degrees applying,
7 degrees separating

Sextiles

Less important planets
4 degrees applying,
3 degrees separating

More important planets
5 degrees applying,
3-4 degrees separating

Quincunx/ Quintiles

2-2.5 degrees applying,
1-1.5 degrees separating

But generally, when a chart has less aspects, I widen orbs somewhat. And vice versa.

Re: orbs are personal to the astrologer, to Miserables

wilsontc I use wider orbs on the Sun and Moon (sometimes referred to as "the lights") than on the other planets. So said:

Thank you for that information, Tim.

Click to expand...

wilsontc I use wider orbs on the Sun and Moon (sometimes referred to as "the lights") than on the other planets. So said:

I'd previously thought I was a bit strange in using a 10 deg orb for the sun and moon, but I find that I am sensitive to these planets to that degree - at least! And 8 deg for the other planets (for conj, squ & opp anyway) seems about right to me. At least, that's the orb I'd settled upon, and my research has found that this is about right.

Thanks heaps.

Click to expand...

I do use semi-sextile, semi-square, and sesquiquadrate but with very small orbs (1 degree, maybe 1 1/2). Semi-squares and sesquiquadrates do not show events in the native's life but do show a steady tension. They're typically pretty hard to deal with because they're hard to pin down.

I only use semi-sextile's if the native has a bunch, especially if they are linked. They show a person working out their evolutionary path quite consciously.

I use quite small orbs (6 degrees, usually) but I also "pull in" planets if they're in a conjunction. For example, if Saturn is 15 degrees Scorpio and Mercury is 18 degrees Aquarius and the sun is 23 degrees Aquarius, the native would still feel the square from Saturn to his sun. Although, obviously the Saturn/Mercury square would be a bigger deal in his/her life.

LesMiserables said:

something i haven't looked into yet, which is very important, is orbs.

i understand that astro.com is a bit giving in the aspects because of there orbs.

what i would like to know, is what are generaly considered an 'ok' for an aspect based on orbs?

please tell me..


what is usually the maximum orbs given for:

trines 4 degrees and perhaps 6 for the Sun and Moon
sextiles same with
squares same
conjunctions same
oppositions same

and i wouldn't mind knowing the other aspects - semi-sextile, semi-square, etc.

i know astrologers debate this, but surely some one or everyone here can give me a basic idea/guide line of the orbs for those aspects.

also, on the natal charts from astro, what does it mean when the orb has a - sign next to it?

Click to expand...

the minor aspects no more than 2-3 degrees.

This is a question that is much argued but only experience will tell as you track transits etc.

Re: plus and minus signs, to Sundance

wilsontc said:

...the "+" indicates "the aspect is larger than it would be, were it exact" and the "-" indicates "the aspect is smaller than it would be, were it exact".

And so far no one has been able to explain what this means!

Click to expand...

Tried to figure it out......My guess is "-" relates to the waxing phase of the two planets and "+" is the waning phase............So, the planets can be applying (a) or separating (s) in either the waxing (-) or waning (+) phase of their cycle.

Only a guess though......because it is indeed confusing....especially if one or both planets are retrograde.

EJ:69:

On the question of orbs and aspects.......I use the harmonics formula, which allows 12 degrees for conjunctions (but I use 8); 6 for oppositions; 4 for trines; 3 for squares; 2 for sextiles; etc. (the principle being that the conjunction orb/12 is divided by the aspect number).

Thus, a semi-sextile would have an orb of only 1 degree and a semi-square of 1.5 degrees..........and I've often found that minor aspects have a major influence when within these allowed orbs.

EJ

Munchkin said:

not sure about North Node?

Click to expand...

The Nodes are a sensitive point and not a physical body. Since there is no body to project or collect light, the orbs to it must be relatively small. Here is an illustration that might help. Think of the Node as a pothole in the road. No matter how close you are, it does not effect you unless you directly hit it....

Personally, I wouldn't consider anything over 1 degree and even that would be a hard aspect (conjunct, opposition, square.... and the square being important because it is a mid point to the NN/SN axis.)


TK