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  #1  
Unread 05-25-2014, 06:21 PM
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Parivartana Yoga confusion!

Hello everyone,


I have a question about parivartan yoga. In this yoga, two planets forming parivartan yoga are deemed to be in other's house, right? Now is this assumption applicable only when considering or determining the effect of the houses forming this yoga vis-a-vis eachother or for the whole chart?

I am not quite sure if i have worded the question right. So I am pasting the chart in which I encountered this problem. This chart belongs to a very famous religious leader. Here Ke and Sa in the 2nd house and Ve and Ra in 8th house form tapasvi yoga. But Ve in Pisces in 8th house is also forming parivartana yoga with Jupiter in Taurus in 10th house. So according to rules of parivartana yoga, Ve should be considered in 10th house and Jupiter in 8th house but if it happens there won't be any tapasvi yoga, which according to his life facts as documented, should be there. I guess I make more sense now than I did in the earlier para. Any help is appreciated!



Thanks


P.S. Planet with Venus is Rahu
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Unread 05-26-2014, 12:32 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroenthusiast View Post
Hello everyone,


I have a question about parivartan yoga. In this yoga, two planets forming parivartan yoga are deemed to be in other's house, right? Now is this assumption applicable only when considering or determining the effect of the houses forming this yoga vis-a-vis eachother or for the whole chart?

I am not quite sure if i have worded the question right. So I am pasting the chart in which I encountered this problem. This chart belongs to a very famous religious leader. Here Ke and Sa in the 2nd house and Ve and Ra in 8th house form tapasvi yoga. But Ve in Pisces in 8th house is also forming parivartana yoga with Jupiter in Taurus in 10th house. So according to rules of parivartana yoga, Ve should be considered in 10th house and Jupiter in 8th house but if it happens there won't be any tapasvi yoga, which according to his life facts as documented, should be there. I guess I make more sense now than I did in the earlier para. Any help is appreciated!



Thanks


P.S. Planet with Venus is Rahu

Dear AE,

Mutual reception aka parivartan in jyotish is a rather interesting situation! Both planets are deemed to be as if they are in one another's house and for their lifetimes (actually lifetime of the nativity?). So let us say, by the tryst of destiny, the king of a country were to relocate to the palace of another king of a different nation, an enemy nation, and vice versa, would they destroy their current home and shelter?

But, just because they have been relocated so, would their immediate interests to promote the welfare of the nation they are now located in become important? ;-) Or just making sure that the HOUSE they are living in remains well-kept and comfortable, now that they are forced to live in, for the rest of their lifetime (Nativity's, that is...!)

Very good question, by the way or so it seemed to me, though I am not sure if I really got the gist of what you were asking, or even if, my response resolves your doubt or confusion or improves/helps your understanding! ;-)

So, if sun is in aquarius and saturn is in leo, would their outlook change entirely for the entire chart or just wherever leo and aquarius happen to be in that chart? I already see the potential flaw with the example I thought about for they are scoping one another consistently..., but perhaps jupiter in virgo and mercury in dhanu is a better example? Or the more volatile mutual reception between the polar opposites: mars in libra and venus in scorpio...?

I failed to launch and see the bmp that you posted and shared :-( For some reason, I've been having problem always in accessing the attached graphics on this forum, hence a simple textual sharing (birthdata, source of birthdata and PLEASE do not confuse my software by sharing only the coordinates and not the name of the birthplace and Province, Country, etc because ATLASES are not perfect or UNIFORM in different software! Reality?

Love and Light,

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Unread 05-26-2014, 02:25 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Very good question, by the way or so it seemed to me, though I am not sure if I really got the gist of what you were asking, or even if, my response resolves your doubt or confusion or improves/helps your understanding! ;-)

So, if sun is in aquarius and saturn is in leo, would their outlook change entirely for the entire chart or just wherever leo and aquarius happen to be in that chart?
You got it alright! The analogy that you gave, gives me an impression that parivartana yoga effects only the houses in which it is taking place and rest of the chart is not affected very much by it. Am I right?

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Originally Posted by Crystalpages View Post
I failed to launch and see the bmp that you posted and shared :-( For some reason, I've been having problem always in accessing the attached graphics on this forum, hence a simple textual sharing (birthdata, source of birthdata and PLEASE do not confuse my software by sharing only the coordinates and not the name of the birthplace and Province, Country, etc because ATLASES are not perfect or UNIFORM in different software! Reality?
I am afraid I don't have the name of his birth place, so i'll have to give the longitudes instead. Here are his particulars:

DOB: 20 May 1894
TOB: 13:22 (accurate)
POB: 79E32 11N57, India


Thanks
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Unread 05-26-2014, 04:20 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

Astroenthusiast,

I would not treat it as actual relocation of jupiter and venus, but more like additional strength gained by venus and jupiter in the houses they are in! Horoscope shows good longevity, as well as power and prominence. So, the individual was probably not a reclusive sanyasi but possibly a leader of the institution he was associated with. Jupiter, sun and mercury aspecting the debilitated moon with cancellation and disposited by strong venus in the eighth aspected by retrograde saturn and the nodal axis do portray a detatchment from worldliness. I am seeing, though, that there was much opulence surrounding him and organization, although he was in it but separate (detached) from such maya. Jupiter in tenth and strengthened by exchange with a strong venus gives organizational ability and such individuals whether sanyasi or not have the ability to build up cohesiveness in the people in the organization they head. Saturn is retrograde and atmakaraka and hence has a say in his becoming a sanyasi. The shift of budha-aditya in the 9th house portrays a role as educator-mentor as part of his mission.
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Unread 05-26-2014, 06:07 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Astroenthusiast,

I would not treat it as actual relocation of jupiter and venus, but more like additional strength gained by venus and jupiter in the houses they are in! Horoscope shows good longevity, as well as power and prominence. So, the individual was probably not a reclusive sanyasi but possibly a leader of the institution he was associated with. Jupiter, sun and mercury aspecting the debilitated moon with cancellation and disposited by strong venus in the eighth aspected by retrograde saturn and the nodal axis do portray a detatchment from worldliness. I am seeing, though, that there was much opulence surrounding him and organization, although he was in it but separate (detached) from such maya. Jupiter in tenth and strengthened by exchange with a strong venus gives organizational ability and such individuals whether sanyasi or not have the ability to build up cohesiveness in the people in the organization they head. Saturn is retrograde and atmakaraka and hence has a say in his becoming a sanyasi. The shift of budha-aditya in the 9th house portrays a role as educator-mentor as part of his mission.

You are right in your assessment of this nativity. But I still didnot understand what you meant by venus and jupiter gaining strength in there own houses. Did you give it as definition of parivartana yoga or is it nativity specific. And by gaining strength, does one mean that malefic becomes more malefic and benefic more benefic or that they get additional support to do things that are on their agenda in a particular chart?

Aren't sun and mercury in planetary war? Can planets engaged in war give a yoga? Oh dear, till now I thought a planet defeated in planetary war cannot give any results (even as i am writing this, i realize how foolish my beliefs were) and I see sun-mercury conjunction in 10th house, how can it shift? I would ask more question if i had any idea how you reached these conclusions!
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Unread 05-26-2014, 09:04 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by Astroenthusiast View Post
You are right in your assessment of this nativity. But I still didnot understand what you meant by venus and jupiter gaining strength in there own houses. Did you give it as definition of parivartana yoga or is it nativity specific. And by gaining strength, does one mean that malefic becomes more malefic and benefic more benefic or that they get additional support to do things that are on their agenda in a particular chart?

Aren't sun and mercury in planetary war? Can planets engaged in war give a yoga? Oh dear, till now I thought a planet defeated in planetary war cannot give any results (even as i am writing this, i realize how foolish my beliefs were) and I see sun-mercury conjunction in 10th house, how can it shift? I would ask more question if i had any idea how you reached these conclusions!
AE,

Trust me, no one can learn astrology using internet messages :-) Anyways, that would be the lazy way and you may not end up integrating the material in a cohesive manner :-(

Why do you think that there is a planetary war?

As to the original problem you were having, there is no double exchange, so Jupiter stays where it originally is (only stronger) and venus in pisces where it is already exalted.

I am not sure which part of conclusions were posing a problem

Regards,

Rohiniranjan
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Unread 05-28-2014, 05:41 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by Astroenthusiast View Post
You got it alright! The analogy that you gave, gives me an impression that parivartana yoga effects only the houses in which it is taking place and rest of the chart is not affected very much by it. Am I right?



I am afraid I don't have the name of his birth place, so i'll have to give the longitudes instead. Here are his particulars:

DOB: 20 May 1894
TOB: 13:22 (accurate)
POB: 79E32 11N57, India


Thanks
The latitude and longitude of Poyyapakkam Road, Poyyapakkam, Tamil Nadu 605602, India is: 11 57' N / 79 31' E

Place of birth:Viluppuram, Tamilnadu
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Unread 05-28-2014, 05:45 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandra...ndra_Saraswati
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Unread 05-28-2014, 07:44 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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My big secret is out! Haha...I held his name back because I didn't want to flout forum's rules (not that I have read them, I just was being over cautious,as always)....
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Unread 05-28-2014, 05:59 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroenthusiast View Post
Hello everyone,


I have a question about parivartan yoga. In this yoga, two planets forming parivartan yoga are deemed to be in other's house, right? Now is this assumption applicable only when considering or determining the effect of the houses forming this yoga vis-a-vis eachother or for the whole chart?

I am not quite sure if i have worded the question right. So I am pasting the chart in which I encountered this problem. This chart belongs to a very famous religious leader. Here Ke and Sa in the 2nd house and Ve and Ra in 8th house form tapasvi yoga. But Ve in Pisces in 8th house is also forming parivartana yoga with Jupiter in Taurus in 10th house. So according to rules of parivartana yoga, Ve should be considered in 10th house and Jupiter in 8th house but if it happens there won't be any tapasvi yoga, which according to his life facts as documented, should be there. I guess I make more sense now than I did in the earlier para. Any help is appreciated!



Thanks


P.S. Planet with Venus is Rahu
tapasvi yoga

http://www.astrologytree.net/2010/01...aswi-yoga.html
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Unread 05-28-2014, 08:05 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Now I understand it. And you may have guessed that I am also taking PVR Narsimha Rao's audio lessons. He discusses it in lesson 7 or 8. This is the reason I can't ask these questions where I am studying. Whenever I ask a question, my fellow students think that I have grown two heads and they have objected, rather kindly, more than once. And my teachers either don't answer or confuse me even more...haha.

Last edited by Astroenthusiast; 05-28-2014 at 08:13 AM.
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Unread 05-28-2014, 07:04 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by Astroenthusiast View Post
Now I understand it. And you may have guessed that I am also taking PVR Narsimha Rao's audio lessons. He discusses it in lesson 7 or 8. This is the reason I can't ask these questions where I am studying. Whenever I ask a question, my fellow students think that I have grown two heads and they have objected, rather kindly, more than once. And my teachers either don't answer or confuse me even more...haha.
But in that case, why did you not ask Narasimha directly? Instead of here and there...? :-)

He is a rather unique person and very serious and sincere about astrology and research. His prolific contributions to modern jyotish are phenomenal and in my personal opinion, above many and most on or away from internet ;-)

Very respected and admirable human being and very helpful to others, particularly serious and sincere students of jyotish!

Regards,

Rohiniranjan
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Unread 05-29-2014, 07:29 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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But in that case, why did you not ask Narasimha directly? Instead of here and there...? :-)
You'd think he would have time to babysit a novice?
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Unread 05-29-2014, 12:32 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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You'd think he would have time to babysit a novice?
The baby, if truly intent, serious, sincere and respectful might be pleasantly surprised...! Trust my instincts about this one! ;-)

Love and light,

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Unread 05-31-2014, 11:10 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

I've been looking out for this topic since long.
One case study that I refered was -
Aries ascendant chart,
With mars in 10th house Capricorn exchanging signs
With 8th house saturn in Scorpio.
Also saturn conjunction mercury.
What would u interpret this as ?
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Unread 05-31-2014, 02:39 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by crystalsoulz View Post
I've been looking out for this topic since long.
One case study that I refered was -
Aries ascendant chart,
With mars in 10th house Capricorn exchanging signs
With 8th house saturn in Scorpio.
Also saturn conjunction mercury.
What would u interpret this as ?

Dear Crystalsoulz,

As stated earlier generally, even when we are examining a single factor such as parivartan, it is good to have the whole picture in front of us. The information you have provided entirely lacks the other possible influences operating on the Saturn, mercury and mars and any interpretation (expected) attempted could very well not be in line with what it would be compared against (observed) and therefore seem as inapplicable insofar as the statements made about the parivartan.

That said, in the information-fragment provided, firstly, due to the exchange between Saturn and mars, two very important planets in the chart, one ruling longevity, and the self (capsule of lifetime), the other ruling sustenance and duty, both would be strengthened and particularly Saturn would gain strength. Since Saturn is strengthened (due to the mutual reception), and associated with the lord of III and VI, and aspecting to some degree (depending on degrees of mars and Saturn) the significance of working through hurdles and obstructions could be a key feature/tasks in life. Some of these could be self-created and communication and foresight and illness and networking and opposition would have to be overcome. Work would involve a demonstration of leadership perhaps in an adversarial environment which (adversaries) could be people as well as circumstances. If un-influenced by other factors operating, the individual would be likely to experience some ambivalence in life regarding attachment vs detatchment with the framework of missions undertaken or through being delegated due to mental and/or physical reasons. This is where the factors prevailing during different times in life and changing priorities would bear examination.

I would invite others to comment in the thread but it would help if you would share the complete data if the quest is serious and important and the answers thereto. Birthdate (spell the name of month), birthplace (name), and birthtime with a note about the source of time (someone's recall, birthrecord document, others) and if the time is rectified, please state the originally documented or recalled time, etc. Perhaps a late 1986 or thereabout born nativity, but it is best to work with actual data when readily available and the pursuit (for study or a reading!) is serious and sincere.

Regards,

Rohiniranjan
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Unread 05-31-2014, 07:30 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

Dob : 06/11/1986
Place: Mumbai, India
Time : 5.58 pm

This might help for case study
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Unread 05-31-2014, 10:28 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by crystalsoulz View Post
Dob : 06/11/1986
Place: Mumbai, India
Time : 5.58 pm

This might help for case study
OMG, I didn't realize Crystalsoulz that some *study (or reading)* was going on...! Anyways, welcome aboard on the aeroplane :-)

Love and Light

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Unread 06-01-2014, 09:59 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

Haha.. These topics get a lot out of me .. Can't help
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Unread 06-01-2014, 11:49 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Haha.. These topics get a lot out of me .. Can't help
Since you seem to be quite interested in Vedic astrology or Jyotish, and participate often in these messages, please take into consideration the following unsolicitated but well-meant advices from this much older man :-)

None of us are here for passing time, really, although sometimes we do express the lighter side of ourselves. I think most of us here are at some stage of learning about ourselves, about human nature, but more importantly about Jyotish and divination, at least in this section (Jyotish).

The key to become helpful is to participate transparently and in a friendly manner. Friendly manner, not just superficially, but with genuineness and not with the sceptical motivation of always trying to test or examine others. Particularly, if we are not experts or teachers or self-realized individuals. I speak that as a simple man and ordinary traveller on this path and would not place myself in any of those three categories! :-)

So, if you are feeling a bit under-prepared, or shy or hesitant to share your understanding of jyotish but are always dropping quizzes and other tests without saying so openly, then people become reluctant to share or spend time on these gimmicks. In this thread, for instance, instead of using this chart example or another one with aries rising and Saturn in tenth ;-) you should have shared what you observed and some of the beginners and perhaps others older might have learned something! Listen, this path is not easy and full of uncertainties and delicate. If we start dancing on this delicate path, all we achieve is creating a lot of dust and rubble and then at some point, people begin throwing the rubble at the dancer! :-)

Finally, not in the mode of showing off or anything like that, and perhaps not even addressed for your benefit specifically, let me touch upon how I figured out that it was a late 1986 birth that you did not give birthdata for and just a few placements.

This person is either moving towards his or her 30th year (1st return) or the 60th (2nd return) or multiples thereof. Saturn would soon be in scorpio!

Then in ten seconds or multiples thereof, one can see when mars would be in Capricorn during those 2.5 year periods and then mercury added to the transit calculator and end of October 1986 or thereabouts is easy to decipher.

This is probably likely to be a friend, sibling of yours since you were born within a year or so of the nativity and recently had been seeking help several times about your 7th house prospects etc and this one may very well be someone related to that area of your recent concerns (apart from about your career, your second major concern here).

In a cafeteria, you got to speak clearly and make a cogent and transparent request, because quite frankly my friend, there is a huge queue and you would feel guilty when you realize that you might be holding the line up...?

Love, Light, Reality,

Rohiniranjan
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Unread 06-01-2014, 06:55 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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This person is either moving towards his or her 30th year (1st return) or the 60th (2nd return) or multiples thereof. Saturn would soon be in scorpio!

Then in ten seconds or multiples thereof, one can see when mars would be in Capricorn during those 2.5 year periods and then mercury added to the transit calculator and end of October 1986 or thereabouts is easy to decipher.
I understood the Saturn part. But couldn't understand the calculations given in second para. Can you, please, explain it again?


Thanks
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Unread 06-01-2014, 08:08 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by Astroenthusiast View Post
I understood the Saturn part. But couldn't understand the calculations given in second para. Can you, please, explain it again?


Thanks
AE,

Saturn is the slowest, Jupiter next, then Mars... etc
CS gave the Saturn, mars and mercury in his/her somewhat cryptic (or at least guarded) post. Once Saturn could be pinned down (transit calculator), next slower planet (given) would be mars, and then when Saturn in scorpio and mars in Capricorn were pinned, one moves the mercury until the three match up with the rashi positions given. Even if the ayanamshas are different, one can sort of pin down and with each pinning-down narrow the realm of possibilities (within a 2.5 year period by Saturn and then the year (had Jupiter position been provided by CS) and then narrowing it down to months etc. If moon were given, then within a few days, and then the ascendant (given) within hours and so on. No magic there, just a narrowing down and moving closer to the bull's eye! Sometimes this comes in handy when only the chart is given (a celebrity for instance or where nativity is not available for feedback etc). Although, quite frankly, trying to whittle down to a couple of hours does take time unless there is a software that given the placements can produce the options (approximate birthtimes etc) in a few seconds but might take the human several minutes or longer. This would be similar to the phone directories where if address known, we find the telephone number. Astrologers with the birthdata, essentially are using the reverse directory approach. Given the phone number (not literally!), one tries to find the address, i.e., the chart layout!

Rohiniranjan
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Unread 06-03-2014, 06:28 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by Crystalpages View Post

This person is either moving towards his or her 30th year (1st return) or the 60th (2nd return) or multiples thereof. Saturn would soon be in scorpio!

Then in ten seconds or multiples thereof, one can see when mars would be in Capricorn during those 2.5 year periods and then mercury added to the transit calculator and end of October 1986 or thereabouts is easy to decipher.

Sir, the gentle green part is what my mercury couldn't understand, if we leave aside the fact that i also didn't know that calculations are to be made, starting from the slowest planet.
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Unread 06-03-2014, 08:00 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by Astroenthusiast View Post
Sir, the gentle green part is what my mercury couldn't understand, if we leave aside the fact that i also didn't know that calculations are to be made, starting from the slowest planet.
The time spent by astrologer armed with modern transit calculators!

It is like a forensic investigation, AE...! First the bigger picture then we gradually narrow things down and whittle it down to the day and even the approximately 2 hour period for the lagna, at least in periequatorial regions. Could be wider as we keep going north or south from equator...?

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan
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Unread 06-03-2014, 09:57 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

Okay! Thanks!
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