HORARY: Whats going on?

hi everyone. this is my very first post in this community

I was wondering if someone could help me understand my relationship horary. Its been a rough few weeks and iam so scared and stressed out that i may loose him forever

MY QUESTION: whats going on between us?

I understand that saturn in the first house in scorpio makes it difficult to read the chart for the querent (me)

Iam venus, moon, and maybe perhaps pluto?
he is sun, saturn and mars?

who is jupiter and mercury?

The format of that question might be too intimidating for most people. Better to stick to yes/no answers until you learn to read yourself.

Here's some help for you on that:

http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/...2/lesson2.html http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...386#post447386 http://www.serenapowers.com/horary.html http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=12782

When I'm reading my own chart, H1 Saturn usually disallows me to know the answer.

thanks appleberry.

iam looking for greater insight into the big picture. so if anyone is willing to help me understand this horary i would appreciate it. i know in the end its freewill, but any help would mean alot to me.

maybe my relationship is over?

the asc degrees are really cutting it close to the wire.

eight8gems said:

I understand that saturn in the first house in scorpio makes it difficult to read the chart for the querent (me)

Iam venus, moon, and maybe perhaps pluto?
he is sun, saturn and mars?
who is jupiter and mercury?

...

H1 Saturn usually disallows me to know the answer.

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Hi, there!

Horary astrology works in a very specific manner and has certain rules. One of the things that makes it quite different than other astrological tools is that it captures the whole moment of the Question thus involving the Astrologer as well. If the situation does not meet the necessary criteria, we are most likely to end up having a non-radical chart or a chart full of warnings against judgement. That is not necessarily an extraordinary "sign" ("no, you're not allowed to know the answer!") although it can be if the reason for asking the Question is not well grounded or reasonable. In most cases,however, it is only a reflection of the objective circumstances. Either the astrologer is inadequately experienced or the Querent is unable to face the situation. If the Querent is also the official astrologer, both is possible.

If we follow the traditional rules (which we should especially when it comes to the basics and technicalities), we can say that the only person who can read the chart is the official astrologer (because, as I already mentioned, Horary charts capture the influence of that party as well). Other astrologers can offer their thoughts, suggestions or advices but, at the end of the day, the chart is your task. (I allow anyone to disagree with me on this but, after years in horary practice, I have found that the strictures and rules explained by the traditional authorities when it comes to asking Horary questions are more than worth following).

I understand that saturn in the first house in scorpio makes it difficult to read the chart for the querent (me)

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This is not a strict rule- sometimes Saturn is the representative of a relevant party and its presence inside the 1st is saying something else.

Iam venus, moon, and maybe perhaps pluto?

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The Querent always gets the Lord of the 1st house as their ruler (although, some astrologers use the Almutens of those houses as well). The Moon is your co-significator and the ruler of the Question.

Horary is a traditional discipline and does not use outer planets. nowadays that they are known, we surely don't entirely dismiss them as their symbolism can strongly affect the situation especially if they're touching an important part of the chart. However, we never assign rulerships over houses to them.

Having said this- Horary charts are usually cast in Regiomontanus house system (traditional legacy again)!

he is sun, saturn and mars?

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Our partners, spouses, other parties of any kind (including our open enemies) are ruled by the 7th hence, his ruler is the Lord of the 7th.


Cheers,

aglaya

ok awesome. thanks aglaya.

if i dissect the chart, will you be able to help me if iam right or wrong?

my partner is represented by the 7h, which is in taurus, ruled by venus, in capricorn 3h. he is also sun in aqua.

but doesnt the asc represent the querent? its in libra, venus ruled.

iam also saturn in the first, scorpio? mars ruled, in aqua.

saturn is combust at the moment?

eight8gems said:

ok awesome. thanks aglaya.

if i dissect the chart, will you be able to help me if iam right or wrong?

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I am always glad to help if I can but, I had to point out that there is a "system" and that neither me or any other astrologer can change if we want a valid chart and delineation.

I usually advise Horary novices to practice on already delineated charts of other people (pretending that they're the astrologer) because they tend to get carried away when it comes to their own charts (which, needless to add, are often non-radical ), but, if you intend to pursue this chart, you should keep in mind that you're emotionally attached to this situation and that even the chart warns you that you need to be objective.

You should start with the traditional step-by-step method and blend the promises into a single story in the end or as you go. I don't know what literature you're using, different authors or teachers might advise to do something this way or the other but, which ever the source, follow the main rules.
(William Lilly's "Christian Astrology" vol.I can be downloaded from HERE- the instructions for Horary students begin on page 122.)

but doesnt the asc represent the querent? its in libra, venus ruled.

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It does,you get Venus he gets Mars. The Question gets the Moon.

iam also saturn in the first, scorpio? mars ruled, in aqua.

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Although some astrologers would assign it secondary rulership over your 1st, this Saturn could also be anything from another party interested in you to a carrier of an additional description of you and your reactions to the situation.

In order to determine as to what or whom certain planets in the chart represent, you need to thoroughly examine their natural qualities - Saturn inside Scorpio close to your Ascendant, coming from the 4th (home, parents, herritage...) and the 3rd (communication, transport, short travel...) and separating from your rule (also inside the 3rd) has its own symbolism. You need to compare it to the past events and see as to what it may be representing and what this separating aspect is descriptive of. Your ruler is much faster than Saturn meaning that it is something you are moving away from or simply an activity that took place 6,5 units of time ago.
In addition, and very importantly, by being placed inside the rulership of this planet, you are showing your inclination towards that person or activity. The nature of the aspect is suggesting that the quality of the relationship of what ever it is that this Saturn rules is potentially cooling off (you were brought into a benevolent aspect and now you're moving away from this Saturn).

Then do the same thing with your partner's ruler. he seems to be interested in exavctly the same thing as his rules is also inside the rulership of Saturn and note that his dispositor is inside your home.

Then follow the Moon- its placement on the 9th cusp is surely telling something important as well- gemini is also about communication and transport, the 9th rules high education, churches, religion, foreign countries etc. You will have to find the most appropriate symbolism - I don't even know what the situation looks like or what happened between the two of you.

The past movement of the Moon (separating aspects) is descriptive of past event. Likewise, its future movement through the sign it is currently occupying is descriptive of the future activities.

Give everything a close inspection and don't forget to check the dignities!

saturn is combust at the moment?

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Saturn is not combust. mercury is combust!

Aglaya, you are so awesome. You dont even know my situation but you hit close to home

Me and my guy talked a few days ago and although we danced around the pink elephant in the room, we were both genuinely happy to talk to each ohter. He is my focus in house matters, as the next step in our relationship would indicate merging our lifes as one. I had to leave the other day on a business trip, I did mention it to him that I was going to be leaving for a few days and he was alright with it, I think. I tried initiating contact with him again, but he was bit busy and currently Iam bidding my time and thinking about when to reach out to him again, or if I should wait for him to contact me. Iam very much hoping for us to work on our numerous misunderstandings, mainly due to poor communication skills on both of our parts.

since the moon is a fast planet, I was thinking that maybe when the moon enters cancer in the 9th a trip could be suggested or maybe by then i would be back home from my business trip.

I am also thinking that when mars enters pisces it would be a really good time to have a deep heart to heart.

i know understand saturn in the 1st. i am heartsick and worried about my current situation with my guy, I am not the most patient peron so whenever saturn pops up and delays my momentum I panick lol. Having it in scorpio just adds intensity to my worries, and thinking the worst.

thank you again for taking the time to explain my chart to me. breaking it down made me see it in a totally different light. I was convinced that the chart was indicating that he had turned his back on me and given up.

on a side note, ive been referencing moon in gemini in the 8th but come up with very little info. can anyone share some knowledge on that?

aswell when mercury is combust, does that simply mean communication is blocked and more misunderstandings, annoyances and bickering could be higlighted?

or is it the same meaning as saturn combust, where the outcome is not what it would hope and it will destroy anything in its current path?

(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

From the perspective of the alternative horary approach I follow:
-you have asked about what is going on in the relationship between you and the other person, therefore
-the answer (descriptive of what is going on) is found in the 7th house (house of relationships, 2 people "as a unit") and the lord of the 7th house
-in this chart, Aries is on the 7th house: therefore part of the answer is to be derived from the astrology books when describing Aries, and particularly Aries in the 7th house, its meanings, conditions, affinities, etc
-Uranus (Note: Uranus is not used in standard/traditional horary) is in the whole sign 7th house, in Aries: therefore additional information regarding what is going on, can be gleaned from reading about Uranus in Aries, and about Uranus in the 7th house, in the astrology texts
-Mars is lord of the 7th house: Mars is in Aquarius, and Mars is trine the Moon and is also conjunct Neptune (Note: Neptune is not used in standard/traditional horary): therefore, additional information about what is going on can be found from reading about Mars in Aquarius, and Mars trine Moon, and Mars conjunct Neptune, in the astrology textbooks.

Putting all that together, you will obtain an idea about what is going on (at the present time) in your relationship with this person.

dr. farr said:

(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

From the perspective of the alternative horary approach I follow:
-you have asked about what is going on in the relationship between you and the other person, therefore
-the answer (descriptive of what is going on) is found in the 7th house (house of relationships, 2 people "as a unit") and the lord of the 7th house
-in this chart, Aries is on the 7th house: therefore part of the answer is to be derived from the astrology books when describing Aries, and particularly Aries in the 7th house, its meanings, conditions, affinities, etc
-Uranus (Note: Uranus is not used in standard/traditional horary) is in the whole sign 7th house, in Aries: therefore additional information regarding what is going on, can be gleaned from reading about Uranus in Aries, and about Uranus in the 7th house, in the astrology texts
-Mars is lord of the 7th house: Mars is in Aquarius, and Mars is trine the Moon and is also conjunct Neptune (Note: Neptune is not used in standard/traditional horary): therefore, additional information about what is going on can be found from reading about Mars in Aquarius, and Mars trine Moon, and Mars conjunct Neptune, in the astrology textbooks.

Putting all that together, you will obtain an idea about what is going on (at the present time) in your relationship with this person.

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will do. thank you very much

well this is interesting

aries on the 7h fiery, wants independance in close relationships.

uranus on the 7h, unstable, non comittal, unpredictable, changes.

uranus in aries aggressiveness

mars in aquarius space and freedom. little emotion/detachement. variety and excitement.

mars trine moon reactions are spontaneous and intinctual
If lord of the 7th, this is good for sexual relationships and romance. You are able to find a good compromise with your partner.

mars conjunct neptune to avoid the roundabout way and act/talk honestly. maybe the advice is to not live life thru rose colored lenses and to avoid leaving things up to "fate" to decide or in my case learn saturns rules lol

Aglaya, you are so awesome. You dont even know my situation but you hit close to home

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It wasn't just me- Horary astrology really does work!

He is my focus in house matters

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The presence of the L4 inside your 1st is descriptive of your current preoccupation with domestic matters (like I said, it could have been a different symbolism of the 4th as well). In addtion, the Sun on the 4th cusp is like a hige lamp casting its light onto this area of life - like a lighthouse! It isn't hard to notice that the symbolism of the 4th is currently very important in your life.

I had to leave the other day on a business trip, I did mention it to him that I was going to be leaving for a few days and he was alright with it, I think.

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Like I said, your ruler inside the 3rd (trip) moving away from its dispositor who is also the ruler of your home and sitting in your 1st house was a good indication that you have recently left your comfort zone (your home). It's very obvious, actually!

The position of the Moon is usually pinpointing the area of the Querent's major interest and, seeing it on the 9th cusp, instantly made me assume that the nature of this house is somehow involved (like I said, anything from foreign countries and travelling to high education). You asked the Question while you were far away from home and your main concern is the stability of your life when you come back- that's the influence of the luminaries on the cusps of the 9th and the 4th.

Iam very much hoping for us to work on our numerous misunderstandings, mainly due to poor communication skills on both of our parts.

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The natural ruler of communication, Mercury, is combust on the 4th. This inevitably triggers misunderstandings and poor communication (skills). Your home life (or your partner's professions) are most likely to suffer from this. Luckily, the Mercury is now moving away from the Sun.

since the moon is a fast planet, I was thinking that maybe when the moon enters cancer in the 9th a trip could be suggested or maybe by then i would be back home from my business trip....
I am also thinking that when mars enters pisces it would be a really good time to have a deep heart to heart.

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Although, in some charts, we can trace the movement of the Moon through more than one signs (rare questions that include longer periods of time), traditionally, it is only its passage through the current sign that is usually observed. The Moon not making any applications before leaving the current sign (Void of Course Moon) is actually one of the most negative signs in terms of reaching the original goal.

Same goes for all other planets.

I was convinced that the chart was indicating that he had turned his back on me and given up.

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Your rulers are in the adjacent houses and cannot see each other. A top of all that, there's a combust Mercury half way between your rulers.
In addition, Mars is occupying a Nodal degree which imports certain heaviness into the situation.
My advice for you is to open this topic while you're still away (phone call, email...) because the Moon is applying to Mars from the 9th cusp.

aries on the 7h fiery, wants independance in close relationships.

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It doesn't necessarily need to be independence or anegative expression of his fiery nature. Note that his ruler is in a fixed sign.

uranus in aries aggressiveness

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Uranus is far from his house and doesn't really have a strong impact onto this situation. (Is your partner aggressive?)

uranus on the 7h, unstable, non comittal, unpredictable, changes.

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Uranus is inside the 7th, not 6th!


Cheers,

aglaya

Aglaya,

yes you are very correct, i asked the question during a layover stop.

as for which partner is aggressive, that would be me. My natal planet venus in aries is hard to control sometimes lol

since our main significators are adjacent to each other and hiding from one another can that men out of sight out of mind? sorry to bombard you with so many questions, my current transits have placed saturn in my 7th house and its making things very uncomfortable for me.

with mercury moving away from the sun, iam hoping that that would mean comunication will pick up between us.

so how would he react to me continuing to reach out to him to talk things out? also since he is also sun, would mercury moving away also indicate that he will be more open and forhcoming? or since mercury is on its merry way out would he return and initiate contact with me?

with saturn in the first house, it is now clear what the current situation with my relationship is doing to me... how is it affecting him?

sorry to be a major pain, but maybe ive been reading around too many posts on this forum about love traingles and is he secretly dating another person etc, its making my mind work overtime...

if our main significators cant see each other due to being adjacent to one another, Does my horary chart indicate a third party for him?

none on my part... well none that iam remtoely interested in lol. Other than work, my relationship with my guy is my sole focus in my heart and mind.

eight8gems said:

Aglaya,

yes you are very correct, i asked the question during a layover stop.

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You have an nice explanation of your Moon in Gemini (transport), then.

as for which partner is aggressive, that would be me. My natal planet venus in aries is hard to control sometimes lol

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Then, this is a good time to start working on your communicational skills- the placement of your ruler inside the 3rd as well as of the Moon on the other side of the 3rd/9th inside axis Gemini is pinpointing this as an important area.

my current transits have placed saturn in my 7th house and its making things very uncomfortable for me.

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At least half a billion people currently have Saturn inside the 7th , don't get too upset over a transit, transits are least personal influences.

or since mercury is on its merry way out would he return and initiate contact with me?

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He is Mars, not Mercury. The Moon is casting a trine onto his ruler and my advice for you is to initiate a contact yourself.

if our main significators cant see each other due to being adjacent to one another, Does my horary chart indicate a third party for him?

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The fact that your rulers are placed in adjacent houses is more descriptive of your communication (or the current lack thereof). The fact that you appear to be missing each other does not mean that he is completely or literally out of your sight. besides, in the chart, we CAN see into his house too. No, there is no 3rd party involved.

....................

Update: The advice of moon applying a trine to his ruler mars indicating i should initiate contact while iam still away to open up lines of communications...

Things are not going so well, I was hoping to talk things out with him, but iam loosing hope of having our situation corrected so far, he has not returned 2 of my phonecalls, since our last conversation last week.

Although not used in standard horary (nor indeed in the Ankara horary method I use), I do sometimes take note of factors such as Lilith, which in this chart is in the quesited's communications house, within orb of conjunction with the Part of Fortune on one side, and with the Moon on the other side: since I view Lilith as a kind of "mini South Node", and as always implying a disruptive influence in any and all of its contacts, perhaps this might be somewhat responsible for the communication problems with him mentioned in the update.

I'll give it a shot.

I see that I'm a little late in the game, but I want to weigh in.

First of all, when Saturn is in the 1st house, the answer is generally "no". However, since this is not a yes/no question, I am taking it as descriptive of the anxiety and fear that you are feeling - which should be creating a sense of depression - and how badly things are going between you. How badly things are going is also confirmed by the fact that Venus and Mars, rulers of the first and seventh, are not aspecting each other, or "not in relationship". If this were a "what are we to each other" question, I would say there is no relationship. The fact that both significators are in Saturnian signs shows that both of you are feeling the same way about the situation and that neither of you are happy about it. It's also important to note that Saturn rules the 4th and 5th houses. We know of the 5th house connection with romances and love affairs, but we also have to take into account the 4th house as "the end of the matter". And, of course, this is where the anxiety and fear are originating. Luckily, neither Venus, the ascendant ruler, or the Moon are applying to Saturn, in which case I would be unhappy to say that it is probably over.

Just how effective is the Moon's application to Mars by trine? Not very, in my opinion, as Mars is in a fixed sign. It seems like maybe he is holding on to an idea about the relationship, or some slight from you. Mars is in mutual reception with Saturn, who is in Scorpio. There could be resentment about your sexual life together, Scorpio rules the genitals, or the amount of control he has/doesn't have in the relationship.

That communication is key is shown by both the Moon and Part of Fortune in Gemini with the retrograde Jupiter, in this case too weak to really turn the situation around, but wanting to help out just the same.

In short, it looks like it's out of your hands, and that the decision regarding any resolution of this situation is completely up to him.