how's this for a father-daughter relationship?

hermetic

Well-known member
here is the chart, inner circle is me, outer is my father with whom I've had very complex and mostly difficult relationship all my life.
I am very held back by these unresolved feelings that I cannot even put into words, like it is affecting me on a very subconciouss/pre-verbal level.
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All I see that could be difficul is his Mars opposing my Saturn, and Pluto opposing my Moon, lots of oppositions but nothing to such an extent these feelings inside of me go. Saturn and Uranus conj my Chiron, perhaps this should be looked at? I'd rather not go into details explaining, since this is a very personal thing, and will probably delete the chart later, but I would like to hear what everyone else sees that could be the main issue here.
Thanks

eta - after looking at it some more I am thinking these Saturn and Uranus conj with my Chiron, all conjuncting Algol are probaby most resposible for my wounds that won't heal... And his Pluto in my 1st house makes me unable to escape his control over me. Must add, this control is rather passive and mostly in the mental/emotional sphere, but devastating to my sense of self. I can even not see him for months, nothing ever changes
 
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EJ53

Banned
Hi Hermetic,

Your Mercury is conjunct his Sun and your Venus/North Node is conjunct his Neptune, both of which may undermine your confidence - venus in relation to your femininity and mercury in relation to your intellectual ability. However, this would never have been his intention - it's more that your own self-doubts would have made it difficult to be objective about him/his comments.

However, I think you are right to focus on the Chiron wound in Taurus/11th house - which is about insecurity, particularly in group situations. And having your father's Saturn + Uranus conjunct your Chiron makes him appear to be the instrument through which the wound was inflicted. (In reality though, the wound is not about what happens to us but how it made us feel at the time.) I know nothing about Algol, but understand that it can make us "lose our heads" or be unable to see the obvious - which may mean that part of the Chiron wound is about being unable to think clearly at times.

Finally, with Pluto, I'd expect the issue to be about the opposition to your moon. This gives him power over your emotions and - since outer to inner planet contacts tend to be karmic - this control goes back a long way.

EJ:)
 

hermetic

Well-known member
Thank you EJ :)

I have read a lot about Chiron, so I understand this part as the wound of Chiron is not about what happened but how it made us feel. I somehow feel this Chiron is especially sensitive point of my chart, since it is a far midpoint of this bundle pattern I have going on... And now seeing this Saturn and Uranus(both retro) there I feel they somehow add strenght/burden to this Chiron wound. Particulary since my own Mars and Uranus are opposing Chiron.
As for Pluto, I do know it is karmic, I also read this his NN and my Venus conj is also considered karmic, but how does one go about resolving these issues, that is something I am most intrested in.
Because I may feel I am getting more mature, more rational, but in a contact with my father I once again become a baby, full of anger and irrational thoughts and feelings, that I cannot manage. Like all my hard work in other areas won't improve this, even for a bit.
This relationship feels like such a burden, and me having a tendency to forget the good parts, makes me sometimes wish I didn't have a father, since it is so impossible to improve.
 

EJ53

Banned
hermetic said:
As for Pluto, I do know it is karmic, I also read this his NN and my Venus conj is also considered karmic, but how does one go about resolving these issues, that is something I am most intrested in.
Because I may feel I am getting more mature, more rational, but in a contact with my father I once again become a baby, full of anger and irrational thoughts and feelings, that I cannot manage. Like all my hard work in other areas won't improve this, even for a bit.
This relationship feels like such a burden, and me having a tendency to forget the good parts, makes me sometimes wish I didn't have a father, since it is so impossible to improve.

Hi again Hermetic,

As it is his NN, the karmic lessons are your father's - and are about building confidence through learning to set clearly defined goals/objectives. By helping him to do that, you'll realise that he is "only human" and begin to feel less like a child in his company.

But, his neptune/your venus is your karma. He sees you as "his perfect little girl" rather than an adult female - and you cannot bring yourself to disillusion him. You get free from this by either waiting until he dies or grasping the nettle and shocking him into realising that you are now a grown up. So, the question is " are you ready/able to insist that he stops projecting his value judgements on you - that he stops thinking of you as a child"? And that will not be easy, because his overprotectiveness is his way of showing how much he loves you.

His Pluto/your moon is your karma again. It's about your emotional dependence on him and his ability to exploit it - so, you do what he wants because he knows how to make you feel that you've hurt/disappointed him by not doing so. You get free by either waiting until he dies or asserting your independence. So, are you ready/able to "upset" him by insisting upon doing what you want rather than what (you think) he wants? And, this one should be easier to do - because he's acting out of love for himself here.

Karmically, of course, waiting until he dies is not an option - but knowing that will not make it any easier to do. So, maybe you need to understand that he is creating karma for himself until you stop it.

Edit - as you probably know, retrograde planets are also thought to be karmic - making mercury and chiron in your chart more significant than usual.

Retrograde mercury makes us think more deliberately than others, questioning things that others take for granted (usually without fully understanding them). That can provoke impatience from others, causing us to think they are brighter - when in fact they are simply "less precise".

With retrograde Chiron, I'd guess the "wound" is even deeper than usual - because the soul wants to be absolutely sure that the karma is dealt with in this lifetime. And, that seems to be confirmed in your chart, by Chiron's opposition to the bundle planets - making it very difficult for you not to become "conscious" of the wound and/or not to address it.

EJ:)
 
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hermetic

Well-known member
EJ, I'm a little late here to thank you, and tell these descriptions of relationship with my fater are very accurate, he does see me as perfect and no matter what I do, I can never fall in his eyes. This can be hell of burdening, particulary because I am very critical of myself(compensatory, I think) and have always been torn with his illusions about me - what I am, how I am ie. - not perfect.
And this Pluto Moon description is somewhat different from what I think - he has been somewhat controlling, passive agressive, even sneaky about certain things, and I always had the feeling(probably, again, only my feeling) he was finding ways to learn about my life aspects unknown to him. hmmm. hard to tell what is my paranoia and what real, but as with everything, I do understand this too stems from his love and concern. It's just not my way, and I wish he wasn't acting like this.

ANd no, of course I don't want to wait until he dies, because I believe things are more difficult that way, since there are no ways to resolve anything anymore, and the memory is still very much present ;)
But whenever I gather my strenghts to solve things with him, to talk, as I said, it gets unexplicaply hard, I feel a wall, and cannot change anything. Dynamics are very ackward between us and conversations end up so chaotic, it is not easy to describe. I am starting to find a ways other then talk to maybe move things from this spot... don't know how exactly, but I feel there has to be another way.

Ok, thank you very much, and that about retrograde planets I didn't know by now. Makes sense for mine, but what happens when someone has say 5 or more retro planets? I know this is another topic, but makes me wonder how uneasy would life of a close friend be when he has Jup, Sat, Uran, Nep and Pluto all retro:eek:
 

EJ53

Banned
hermetic said:
.....I am starting to find a ways other then talk to maybe move things from this spot... don't know how exactly, but I feel there has to be another way.

Try doing things with him that enable you to see each other in a different light. For example, (and this is going to seem ridiculous) playing games together on the very family-orientated Nintendo Wii might work.

....what happens when someone has say 5 or more retro planets? I know this is another topic, but makes me wonder how uneasy would life of a close friend be when he has Jup, Sat, Uran, Nep and Pluto all retro:eek:

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

This is a soul who intends to resolve a lot of karma in this lifetime.

Jupiter needs to "stand up and be counted" on some principle/value.

Saturn needs to confirm the validity of values acquired previously.

Uranus needs to understand the purpose of being independent.

Neptune has to differentiate between wants and needs.

Pluto's objective is to understand the meaning of "being in this world but not of it".

So, your friend is likely to be an advanced/"old" soul despite the difficulties that these 5 retrograding may cause in dealing with others in this lifetime.

EJ:)
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Hi Hermetic,

EJ has already explained things very well in detail, so I will just add a few of my observations regarding the synastry between your father and yourself.
By all means your relationship with eachother is an extremely 'karmic' one, hence it's difficult nature.

Your father's Chiron falls into your first house - house of self/ personality. Chiron is all about growth and evolution, and in my opinion this Chiron is going to help you evolve by first making self-awareness an issue for you (as it falls in 1). After that evolution has happened you will understand this effect as one of 'healing the wound'. Of course for this to happen, Chiron will first have to make you aware of that wound (which is what I mean by self-awareness). So, I think your father's actually helping you with his Chiron.

N-node conj Venus: this in a synastry chart is considered quite positive - and since the Nodes are considered 'karmic' - their connection to esp personal planets in another's chart - like to Venus in your case shows a very steadfast bond between you two. I understand it this way that since it is your father's n-Node, it is his lesson to learn firstly to accept that you have in a way "outgrown" the relationship, and then to sort of let you go. However, placement of n-Node in the chart is invariably challenging for the native - as that is what he has to achieve in this life, so perhaps that is why it is hard for your dad to let go of you. And yes, that is why he perhaps "suffocates" you, though I'd say unknowingly. Since Venus is concerned with a person 'feeling good' and 'general well-being' this difficult conjunction is causing the reverse effect on you (since 'you' have outgrown the relationship) .

Saturn-Chiron conjunctions (or aspects) are said to be very difficult for both parties involved, and there is usually a big 'karmic-package' which must be dealt with in the relationship. In a normal man-woman relationship, this aspect is considered a heartbreak aspect.
In your case, your father's Saturn is conjunct your Chiron - which would mean that you would help him evolve by making him deal with his fears (Saturn=fears and frustrations) about "losing" you in a way. So it will be you this time inflicting the wound on him, again, only to help him grow.

Hope to have helped
:)aquarius7000
 
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