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  #26  
Unread 04-26-2017, 01:06 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
But here's the thing. If one can conveniently change over to the other zodiac if the placements don't align with "personality", what is the basis of using any of them at all? There are also differences between the tropical and sidereal versions of the sign, that seem to do the job of explaining the same traits with different language. Saying that, I actually see myself quite clearly in my current tropical chart. The nakshatras are also very enlightening.

To answer your question, in sidereal I have a Scorpio Sun, Mercury and Jupiter (and pluto). I still have a Sagittarius asc with Mars and Venus conjunct. 12th house planets are Sun, Merc, and Pluto. (the rest are conjunct the asc)
Personally, a 12th house Sun doesn't sound very happy to me, no matter what sign it's in. The 12th house isn't a very happy place to me.

In another thread, I forget which one, you made a post about how each sign functions differently in the different houses. You gave the example that a 9th house Pisces would cause the spiritual side of Pisces to come out while a 5th house Pisces would cause the fun-loving side of Pisces and an 8th house Pisces would cause the more self-sacrificing side to Pisces. I agree with this view. I would imagine a 12th house Sagittarius would be the spiritual, more exploratory (particularly in relation to all that is hidden including magic, astrology, etc.) side to Sag, a 5th house Sagittarius may be the more "happy" fun loving type.

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  #27  
Unread 04-26-2017, 01:08 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

I honestly don't understand how Jupiter is happiness; like others have posited, I find Jupiter to simply be expansion. Even though my natal Jupiter is combust, I've felt the expansive energies of Jupiter in transit and a lot of times it's not been pretty. Jupiter conjunct and opposite my natal Venus in transit led to me getting involved in horrific relationships, like what even..

And Jupiter is in Libra again this year (back to the sign of my natal Venus) and so far, it's been expectedly annoying. Whatever Venus issues I have just seem to get amplified by this transit.
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Unread 04-26-2017, 02:41 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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I honestly don't understand how Jupiter is happiness; like others have posited, I find Jupiter to simply be expansion. Even though my natal Jupiter is combust, I've felt the expansive energies of Jupiter in transit and a lot of times it's not been pretty. Jupiter conjunct and opposite my natal Venus in transit led to me getting involved in horrific relationships, like what even..

And Jupiter is in Libra again this year (back to the sign of my natal Venus) and so far, it's been expectedly annoying. Whatever Venus issues I have just seem to get amplified by this transit.
Rex E Bills is considered, by many, to be the authority upon 'rulerships. He says that 'happiness' is Jupiter, Venus, and 5th house.

I totally understand why Jupiter would indicate happiness. Here are some of the things ruled by Jupiter:

auspiciousness, benefactors, betterment, cheerfulness, charitable actions, compensation, contributions, devotion, donations, higher education, endowments, enhancements, enthusiasm, esteem, etiquette, excellence, extravagance, faith, fairness, good fortune, fruitfulness, generosity, genuineness, glory, goodness, good will, gratitude, growth, happiness, harmony in life, harvests, honesty, honor, hope, hospitality, humor, idealism, integrity, joviality, jubilation, judiciousness, lavishness, legitimacy, loyalty, luck, luxury, mercy, mirth, optimism, philanthropy, plenty, politeness, praise, prestige, principles, profit, prosperity, protection, purity, quality, redemption, religion, restitution, reverence, riches ,serenity, sincerity, sociability, spirituality, successes, temperance, trust, truthfulness, values, virtue, vindication, verifications, vows, wealth, wisdom, worthiness




If someone has just some of the above qualities/circumstances/virtues, then they would probably be considered HAPPY....
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  #29  
Unread 04-26-2017, 02:44 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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Rex E Bills is considered, by many, to be the authority upon 'rulerships. He says that 'happiness' is Jupiter, Venus, and 5th house.

I totally understand why Jupiter would indicate happiness. Here are some of the things ruled by Jupiter:

auspiciousness, benefactors, betterment, cheerfulness, charitable actions, compensation, contributions, devotion, donations, higher education, endowments, enhancements, enthusiasm, esteem, etiquette, excellence, extravagance, faith, fairness, good fortune, fruitfulness, generosity, genuineness, glory, goodness, good will, gratitude, growth, happiness, harmony in life, harvests, honesty, honor, hope, hospitality, humor, idealism, integrity, joviality, jubilation, judiciousness, lavishness, legitimacy, loyalty, luck, luxury, mercy, mirth, optimism, philanthropy, plenty, politeness, praise, prestige, principles, profit, prosperity, protection, purity, quality, redemption, religion, restitution, reverence, riches ,serenity, sincerity, sociability, spirituality, successes, temperance, trust, truthfulness, values, virtue, vindication, verifications, vows, wealth, wisdom, worthiness




If someone has just some of the above qualities/circumstances/virtues, then they would probably be considered HAPPY....

I can just say - for me,
Jupiter transits coincide with mania
Saturn transits coincide with depression
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Unread 04-26-2017, 02:46 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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Personally, a 12th house Sun doesn't sound very happy to me, no matter what sign it's in. The 12th house isn't a very happy place to me.
The 12th wasn't pegged "House of Bad Daemon" for nothing.

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In another thread, I forget which one, you made a post about how each sign functions differently in the different houses. You gave the example that a 9th house Pisces would cause the spiritual side of Pisces to come out while a 5th house Pisces would cause the fun-loving side of Pisces and an 8th house Pisces would cause the more self-sacrificing side to Pisces. I agree with this view. I would imagine a 12th house Sagittarius would be the spiritual, more exploratory (particularly in relation to all that is hidden including magic, astrology, etc.) side to Sag, a 5th house Sagittarius may be the more "happy" fun loving type.
I remember saying it but I forgot which thread too. it's what I notice in my chart reads. Another one that I see is Cancer in 3rd (with planets therein) seem to indicate someone with writing interests.
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  #31  
Unread 04-26-2017, 02:55 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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I remember saying it but I forgot which thread too. it's what I notice in my chart reads. Another one that I see is Cancer in 3rd (with planets therein) seem to indicate someone with writing interests.
I kind of expect Cancer in 3rd is more of a moody lunarian artist, while 5 dotes on children and 10 is the fiercely protective one. I don't know.
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  #32  
Unread 04-26-2017, 03:05 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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I kind of expect Cancer in 3rd is more of a moody lunarian artist, while 5 dotes on children and 10 is the fiercely protective one. I don't know.
Those are pretty good descriptors - I'd say 10th sign cancer placements might bring out the cardinal leadership that people think Cancers are incapable of.
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  #33  
Unread 04-26-2017, 03:13 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

I feel like this is all a matter of semantics. I think a concept like happiness can mean so many different things. To me, it seems like 5th house is leisure and sex and therefore fleeting happiness without much deep meaning. Venus is how we express our love so perhaps it's fitting to say it represents joy? Jupiter is deep satisfaction knowing you're fulfilling your life's purpose. And I'm sure having these houses/planets afflicted would lead to difficulty feeling happy/satisfied.

My Jupiter is in Virgo in 12th, one positive trine to Sun in 8th. Only aspect to my Sun, aside from conjunction to Eros if that counts. Afflicted Venus, Saturn in 5th.
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Unread 04-26-2017, 03:37 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

One thing I like to do is to look at charts that encapsulate the topic under discussion. It brings home all these placements where they matter (to us) i.e. on Earth.

Here are a few persons who come immediately to my mind who have Jupiter prominent/powerful in their chart. (either because of rulership and/or because of prominence)

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Luciano,_Lucky
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/...en,_Ludwig_Van
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ramirez,_Ricardo
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gacy%2C_John_Wayne
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pope_Benedict_XVI

For those who aren't familiar, I only use traditional rulerships.

While I'm hearing what Jupiter tends to be associated with (and I don't disagree per se) when I look at charts of these people and I look into their lives, the only level of happiness that I would see applying to these people are the strength of purpose that they pursue their "passion"/goals. I see the self-belief, I see the expansion, I see the exploration, I even see the "success". Ratzinger became the embodiment of a Jupiter archetype on Earth- befitting someone with it conjunct the ascendant and domicile. Beethoven and Lucky definitely "thought big" and aimed high at difficult goals, and they ended up hitting the mark. Even in the case of Gacy and Ramirez, they were exploratory and expansive in a totally different way, we also see the "highly sexed" nature of Jupiter coming forward.

What I'm trying to get at is, what does "Happiness" mean in the context of Jupiter - and I don't mean a simple association but what "state" is descriptive of "happiness" - and do these people seem to have this happiness as a fixture, or even a serious pursuit of their lives?

ETA: At one point I tried to trawl the ADB to find out the significance of Pluto in actual charts - I remember seeing it prominent in inventors (go figure). What I ended up picking upon was that Sagittarius seemed to be a prominent sign in those under the "highly creative" category. It was by no means a strict look though so no declarations here, but it did bring to mind Jupiter and it's prolific qualities.

Last edited by conspiracy theorist; 04-26-2017 at 03:42 AM.
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  #35  
Unread 04-27-2017, 07:12 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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And Jupiter is in Libra again this year (back to the sign of my natal Venus) and so far, it's been expectedly annoying. Whatever Venus issues I have just seem to get amplified by this transit.
That's really interesting. I don't think I'll have relationship problems since I've never had to worry about someone wanting a relationship with me, but I've been wondering why this year has felt so rough. Jupiter isn't far enough to conjunct my natal venus yet, but it is transiting my natal 12th house.
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Unread 04-28-2017, 11:44 PM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

Hi Graay,
Looking at your chart I can see very EASILY the thing about post success letdown!

The grand cross (esp. incl. Merc) is SO difficult. And in fixed signs.....it's hard to laugh at oneself. Which is really important for fixed signs.

You have some very nice aspects....but they are offset (psychologically) by the squares which also are involved. For instance: Pluto trine Sun, Mars trine Uranus -Neptune.
Pluto is in the grand cross....Mars is in the grand cross....

But...you DO have Uranus, Neptune and Moon trine Jupiter....which just goes to show that Jupiter does not automatically make you happy.

Venus in your chart is at the last degree of Cancer...in Neptune's decanate. So Venus is sort of disconnected. You have to wait until there's a good transit to Venus to activate that.

But...I think you probably began to experience that let down - let's call it - in childhood. Perhaps you didn't get the validation and positive reinforcement you needed from the adults in your life. Maybe the opposite. Whatever you did was not quite good enough for praise?
Are you male or female?
LIN
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Unread 04-29-2017, 02:06 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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Hi Graay,
Looking at your chart I can see very EASILY the thing about post success letdown!

The grand cross (esp. incl. Merc) is SO difficult. And in fixed signs.....it's hard to laugh at oneself. Which is really important for fixed signs.

You have some very nice aspects....but they are offset (psychologically) by the squares which also are involved. For instance: Pluto trine Sun, Mars trine Uranus -Neptune.
Pluto is in the grand cross....Mars is in the grand cross....

But...you DO have Uranus, Neptune and Moon trine Jupiter....which just goes to show that Jupiter does not automatically make you happy.

Venus in your chart is at the last degree of Cancer...in Neptune's decanate. So Venus is sort of disconnected. You have to wait until there's a good transit to Venus to activate that.

But...I think you probably began to experience that let down - let's call it - in childhood. Perhaps you didn't get the validation and positive reinforcement you needed from the adults in your life. Maybe the opposite. Whatever you did was not quite good enough for praise?
Are you male or female?
LIN
Nah, it's much simpler than that, really. When you're done with something you worked long and hard at, there's the result, sure. But there's also this massive void in your life where all your time and effort used to go. And that void is the more important part, that's felt much more deeply than any accomplishment. I got well enough praise. It just falls on deaf ears.
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Reading a chart (or tea leaves or chicken entrails or whathaveyou) is a very different act than reading a book. When someone reads a book, the author had a particular intent that the reader is supposed to pick up on. The main message you get from reading stars is "neener neener" because otherwise they would have made themselves easier to read.
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  #38  
Unread 04-29-2017, 02:01 PM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

Graay,
you said, "Nah, it's much simpler than that, really. When you're done with something you worked long and hard at, there's the result, sure. But there's also this massive void in your life where all your time and effort used to go. And that void is the more important part, that's felt much more deeply than any accomplishment. I got well enough praise. It just falls on deaf ears"

you use the word "you" when you meant "I". Most people get satisfaction once they have completed a job or even put a lot of work and effort into it although NOT complete.
YOUR experience is a reflection of the patterns in your psyche.

If you prefer I don't comment (or that anyone comment) you can say so.

HOwever, because YOU can't find the dynamics astrologically in your chart that cause this response or lack of, please don't state that they aren't there. They are there.
You and your chart are mirrors of each other. Your birth chart is the schematic of your psyche. It doesn't lie.
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Unread 04-29-2017, 02:07 PM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

Is English your native language?
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Unread 05-01-2017, 08:48 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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Is English your native language?
So I think I have told you before that you always really make me laugh---like laugh out loud when I see your wry retorts...

So I just now looked more closely at your chart, and I have the Moon @ 3 Cap also, and I have 21Taurus rising, also.

I also have a fixed grand square that fits closely to yours....

Anyway, not really earth shattering, but I think interesting that I totally get your sense of humor and it makes me laugh every time...
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Unread 05-01-2017, 01:25 PM
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So I think I have told you before that you always really make me laugh---like laugh out loud when I see your wry retorts...

So I just now looked more closely at your chart, and I have the Moon @ 3 Cap also, and I have 21Taurus rising, also.

I also have a fixed grand square that fits closely to yours....

Anyway, not really earth shattering, but I think interesting that I totally get your sense of humor and it makes me laugh every time...
Well, it was a serious question. Lin has a pretty solid grasp on English grammar but usually native speakers have a better understanding of the usage of the generic "you." It's definitely a subtlety that one could miss if it wasn't your first language.

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Unread 05-01-2017, 08:05 PM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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The 12th wasn't pegged "House of Bad Daemon" for nothing.



I remember saying it but I forgot which thread too. it's what I notice in my chart reads. Another one that I see is Cancer in 3rd (with planets therein) seem to indicate someone with writing interests.
Cancer in the 3rd? That's interesting. Wouldn't expect that to be honest though if we're talking planets, I find just about any 3rd house planet to be an indicator of writing but sign and planets will determine the style and voice and genre of writing posibly. .

I'm a writer too and I have Leo in the 3rd, Mars. Mercury conjunct Sun in the 5th. I think Mercury in the 5th is an especially good placement for a creative writer to have. Leo in the 3rd might make someone use writing as a way to achieve fame. The Mars makes my writing very dramatic, expressive and forceful and Libra makes it easy to step into different characters' POVs.

Hmm but I would think that a 3rd house Cancer placement would be the more social side of Cancer. They express their Cancer qualities through the use of communication.
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Unread 05-01-2017, 08:08 PM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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I kind of expect Cancer in 3rd is more of a moody lunarian artist, while 5 dotes on children and 10 is the fiercely protective one. I don't know.
I think Cancer in the 3rd might make one very protective of their brothers and sisters or they may need lots of communication in order to feel protected and cared for or maybe they get close to others very quickly.
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Unread 05-01-2017, 08:13 PM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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Those are pretty good descriptors - I'd say 10th sign cancer placements might bring out the cardinal leadership that people think Cancers are incapable of.
I think all Cancer placements are pretty strong, regardless of house. Fiercely self-protective. Best liars of the zodiac. They know how to manipulate, for sure. This is why I, as a Libra, clash with them. But it is a strength. They make good businessmen. Donald Trump has 3 planets in Cancer: Mercury, and a Venus-Saturn conjunction. This doesn't surprise me. In the 11th house: politics?

Last edited by craft94; 05-01-2017 at 08:16 PM.
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Unread 05-01-2017, 08:17 PM
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Hmm but I would think that a 3rd house Cancer placement would be the more social side of Cancer. They express their Cancer qualities through the use of communication.
Water signs are mute. Therefore the communication that would be going on gets bottled up and transformed into more vague "expression". "I will express my feelings through interpretive dance" and the like. Though generally writing takes less effort.
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Unread 05-01-2017, 08:26 PM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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Water signs are mute. Therefore the communication that would be going on gets bottled up and transformed into more vague "expression". "I will express my feelings through interpretive dance" and the like. Though generally writing takes less effort.
I'm not sure about that.. I mean... I agree that water signs are mute, that's why I generally don't get along with them, but HOW mute? Couldn't it depend on the house placement? And even non-verbal communication is still communication.

I believe Cancer is a social sign. Not in the same way that an air sign is. Cancers tend to be shy and silent, they withdraw into their shell, but they also need a 'home,' a 'family', to cling to, they generally like to support/be supported by others and I think with a 3rd house placement, they do this by communicating. They support/give support verbally, and their idea of a home/family is somewhere where theyre free to communicate as they wish without being abandoned... I would imagine.
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Unread 05-01-2017, 08:34 PM
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I'm not sure about that.. I mean... I agree that water signs are mute, that's why I generally don't get along with them, but HOW mute? Couldn't it depend on the house placement? And even non-verbal communication is still communication.
.
Well yes it depends on house placement. I thought we were talking about Cancer in house 3, the house of communication?

Another thing to keep in mind is that people with watery 3rd houses probably have an Earth ascendant. The ascendant might not make them super expressive to begin with. And House 2 is likely to be an air sign...

Last edited by graay ghost; 05-01-2017 at 08:47 PM.
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Unread 05-01-2017, 10:48 PM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

"Well, it was a serious question. Lin has a pretty solid grasp on English grammar but usually native speakers have a better understanding of the usage of the generic "you." It's definitely a subtlety that one could miss if it wasn't your first language."

English is my native language. My learned language is Astrology.

Yes, people have the habit of saying "you" when they mean "I" or "me".

I unlearned this habit in a 12-step program. Because when anyone is sharing their experiences and they use the pronoun "YOU" it's like speaking for others. And the first rule of sharing experiences in 12-step programs is, "keep the focus on yourself."

Also by using "I" or "me" has a psychological benefit. One is "owning" one's own feelings and experiences.

But in this case the use of "you" was really off...because as I mentioned later in that post, MOST people DO get some kind of satisfaction after a job well done or after working hard at something.

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Unread 05-02-2017, 03:39 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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Cancer in the 3rd? That's interesting. Wouldn't expect that to be honest though if we're talking planets, I find just about any 3rd house planet to be an indicator of writing but sign and planets will determine the style and voice and genre of writing posibly. .

I'm a writer too and I have Leo in the 3rd, Mars. Mercury conjunct Sun in the 5th. I think Mercury in the 5th is an especially good placement for a creative writer to have. Leo in the 3rd might make someone use writing as a way to achieve fame. The Mars makes my writing very dramatic, expressive and forceful and Libra makes it easy to step into different characters' POVs.

Hmm but I would think that a 3rd house Cancer placement would be the more social side of Cancer. They express their Cancer qualities through the use of communication.
I've seen it in a few cases but it's by no means exhaustive. My thinking is that the Moon and 3rd share an affinity through writing and that makes it easier or more attractive for a person with that config. to take up writing, at the very least as a hobby. Modernly, the Moon speaks about emotional expression and our "deep feelings" which writing helps to express. I know there were a few times in my life where I'd have insomnia, and the only time I was allowed to sleep was to spit out a few verses. I was barred from comfortable rest otherwise.

Just like other things in astrology, I'd expect that there would be many different ways that the charts to play out in order that an area of interest would come to the fore. A funny little thing I notice is that many of the active members on here have shown interests in writing, and that makes sense as forum posting, sharing of information/"self", communication, and writing are all linked to each other. We all seem to have active 3rd houses going on.

You have any samples of your writing that you're willing to share?
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Unread 05-02-2017, 03:49 AM
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Re: Jupiter and what makes us happy

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I've seen it in a few cases but it's by no means exhaustive. My thinking is that the Moon and 3rd share an affinity through writing and that makes it easier or more attractive for a person with that config. to take up writing, at the very least as a hobby. Modernly, the Moon speaks about emotional expression and our "deep feelings" which writing helps to express. I know there were a few times in my life where I'd have insomnia, and the only time I was allowed to sleep was to spit out a few verses. I was barred from comfortable rest otherwise.
Cancer is also extremely observant. All the water and earth signs look inward to an extent. I feel like people often forget that to make output you need input first.

One would not expect Cancer in third house to be primarily concerned with writing science fiction, and yet, here we are.
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Reading a chart (or tea leaves or chicken entrails or whathaveyou) is a very different act than reading a book. When someone reads a book, the author had a particular intent that the reader is supposed to pick up on. The main message you get from reading stars is "neener neener" because otherwise they would have made themselves easier to read.
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